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Posted by: Kiln May 5 2006, 01:17 AM

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

I finally got the chance to play Oblivion for the first time a few days ago and I just came up with the idea to get other people's opinions on this game...I played Oblivion for several hours, noting things that I liked and didn't like about it in my head.

I loved the new magic, combat, and stealth systems that Bethesda redesigned so well. The first thing that I found to be annoying was the bounty system, no warning is given to the player that he has a bounty until the guards have already caught you but that is a relatively small problem when compared with all that is good in this game.

Radiant AI was great...at first glance. Gameplay really seemed alive with the living, moving world that was created around me and I was amazed with it.

After a while though I noticed things that weren't so intelligent. Some of RAI's major flaws were with recognition of loved ones, friends, and reactions to events. Bethsoft boasted that the character's conversations would be lifelike and realistic when in reality they often are not. Sometimes when you stand near an NPC he will continuously repeat the same line over and over, which gets old fast.

Husbands and wives speak to eachother as if they were talking to a complete stranger and occasionally whenever an NPC tells another NPC about a bad even occurring, they seem unstirred or even happy about it...

Example of bad RAI conversations in the works:

Husband-"Kvatch has been attacked by the Deadra!"

Wife-"That is good to hear..."

Husband-"Indeed...it has been nice speaking with you...farewell."

Wife-"Farewell."

Another thing that I found to subtract from gameplay was the frequency of ruins, caves, and other points of interest that fill the land. As I was traveling through those beautiful woods I talked about earlier I ran into countless ruins and caves, filled with useless junk that made going into the places virtually useless.

The frequency of the caves and ruins is so great that whenever a player runs into one of the ruins they don't really feel a sense of accomplishment because they know what junk is inside and that nearly all of the ruins have similar layouts.

Things aren't sitting around on tables or scattered through the ruin to pick up freely as they were in Morrowind(I really liked that feature of morrowind), they are all locked up tight, making it pointless for anyone without a lockpick or spell to enter the ruins.

Oblivion seemed to be alot less diverse than Morrowind as well, all of the castles, ruins, and caves looked somewhat alike and there were alot less factions to join.

The glitches seemed to be rather frequent as well, not allowing me to drop some of the quest items after I got them and finished the quests involving them and sometimes the item doesn't register as being in your inventory when you're speaking with an NPC about the quest. Another glitch that I encountered was when allies were attacking something, they sometimes hit eachother and turned on one another without explanation...this actually happened several times while I played leading me to believe that it isn't a rare occurrence.

There were several good things about Oblivion but there were also lots of problems that kept me from really getting into it like I did Morrowind. In the end I think that Bethsoft removed too many of the fantasy elements and mainstreamed the game a bit too much.


So without any further discussion I'll give you my thoughts on Oblivion.

Good:
1.Great new combat, steal, and magic systems really add to immersion and keep the player interested.
2.Graphics are simply amazing, though they tend to get a bit simple at far off distances, they're still good.
3.The voice acting was well done with the important and quest characters but the other NPC characters had some fairly amateur sounding actors.
4.Fast travel speeds up gameplay so that you're not spending hours getting to your destination.
5.The quest compass keeps you from getting lost in the massive environment around you.

Bad:
1.Various and somewhat frequent glitches.
2.Repetetive and sometimes bad voice acting with some characters
3.Stiff character movements with animals and NPCs alike.
4.Horrible third person perspective.(In my opinion at least.)
5.Unfortunately the compass is always there, telling you where to go and keeping you from really exploring and doing your own thing without thought to the storyline.

Ugly:
1.RAI not too radiant after all...somewhat dull NPC behavior outside of quests.
2.No NPC recognition of relationships.
3.Poorly done conversations between NPCs.
4.Random and unexpected NPC behavior like attacking others for no apparent reason.

There is my view on this game, for me the problems distracted alot from the gameplay but overall I would say that it was pretty good despite the glitches and problems it had.

So was I disappointed? Yeah I guess I was...it just didn't have anything that was new or different by way of creatures and stuff to discover. It really seemed like too many of the unique things in the elderscrolls universe had been removed for me to get dragged into it like I did Morrowind but hey, that's just me...

I'd like to know what you think as well.

Posted by: foxo May 5 2006, 01:30 AM

My biggest thing with oblivion is the lack of depth. In morrowind, the characters had tons of conversation options, and while you had to read them, a lot of the characters had a distinct personality. In oblivion, each character has one or two lines on average, and even some of the quest characters feel stale. It's also frustrating to find that after all that hype of RAI, NPC's are as unreactive with their environments as noble gases.

Also the fast travel system makes the world feel so small, when in fact it isn't.

But other than that, it's a pretty good game...

Posted by: Taillus May 5 2006, 03:45 AM

Well I really had to vote the hats off option. I was really waiting for the game for a while and I really couldn't wait to play it. I agree with many things as far as flaws are concerned and I definately agree with the good points but I have found in visiting a great number of forums to see people's opinions (And im telling you I quickly regreted doing so...most other forums are rabid with flames and constant bashing so it is good to be here and here only.) I may be the only person with this opinion.....but I also could be wrong.

-The game gave me exactly what I wanted in the game. A large number of hours worth playtime and loving every single minute.
-A new world, new items and updated graphics.
-A chance to enter a fresh new TES province.
-More fun then I could have hoped for.

I must say that Morrowind was way bigger as far as depth and The scenery was so....unique; but I do know that I will be investing sooooooooo many more hours in this game because I didn't get too caught up in the hype.

Those who get far too pulled in by hype suffer great let downs... This for me was an amazing game because I didn't expect it to change my life... too many people did unfortunately but that is beside the point.

Overall I give the game a solid 9/10 and it deserves it.

Posted by: DoomedOne May 5 2006, 04:49 AM

Here, I'll say what I liked an didn't

There were like 4 dungeon types, fort, cave, gate and ruin, and that's it. Each type used the exact same texture and was filled with the exact same group of foes. They boasted 200 dungeons, but really, aside from some cool little tricky traps in the aleyid ruins, there are four dungeons, done over and over again. I mean, they weren't so bad, I was just disappointed from what I thought it'd be like.

Now then, the RAI was not so bad on allies, it's enemies that pissed me off. They don't do anything different from morrowind, except for the very rare chance they might flee or grab a weapon. I was hoping wolves would stalk me, and trolls would call their frinds over before attacking, and will-o-wisps would lead me off the road instead of just come for me. I was disappointed.

Those are my complaints.

Posted by: Olav May 5 2006, 09:12 AM

I had to vote hats off' as well as I'm really loving the game, but I agree on previously mentioned issues like too many points of interests and repetetive textures/dungeon design. The world felt a lot bigger and more mysterious and unique in Morrowind.

Regarding the RAI, I just saw the 6 trailers for Oblivion yesterday, the ones that were released some months ago. In one of those trailers, the RAI seemed much more intelligent and well done than I've seen in the game.

For example, that lady who runs the book store in Chorrol invited the player up to her room after closing hours (after being sweet talked), where she did lots of more or less intelligent things:

- Practiced archery, and when she didn't perform very well she took a potion of some sort and got much better.

- She fed her dog by putting some meat down on the floor, and the dog ate it and got lots of energy

- She went to sleep, but when the dog started barking she got up and cast a paralyze spell on it! When it continued barking after it recovered, she scared it away with a fire damage spell.

I'd love to see stuff like that in Oblivion. Are these things still in the game, or was it something Bethesda scripted for promotional purposes?

Posted by: iceman666 May 5 2006, 10:41 AM

i think its a great...i know it has a few problems, but wot gamee doesnt!! i was a big fan off morrowind twas amazing game...and they has just taken that a made it look good! it may not draw as many ppl in as morrowind did..all i know is, is that its the 1st game in about 3yrs that has kept me playing..it has been the only game i have played for the last month or more...how many games can you say that too.... eh?

Posted by: Furious_George May 5 2006, 11:08 AM

Time playing OB (between wife and I): 300+ hours.
Time in any other xbox 360 game: 20-60 (60 being the most we've played any other game).

It has flaws, but is still the best 360 game out there. I'd still say it's highs are higher and lows are lower than Morrowind, but I'd rank them as 1 and 1A (take your pick of order) for all-time games on console.

Posted by: HyPN0 May 5 2006, 12:03 PM

''It was alright but it didn't really draw me in...''
That's it.While Morrowind had something special.
As foxo said,lack of conversation options is really disturbing.

The game is how would i put it...''Vanilla''.

It's quite obvius it's a lot dumbed down comparing to Morrowind in every posible way.MQ really disapointed me,because i was hoping for some unexpectable twist,and all that i got....well,this isn't the spoiler section.
Graphics really rocks,but that's not something i really value in the game.Sure it's nice to have those pretty woods,but gameplay comes first.
It was already said that caves,forts are all the same,even the same texture in the Ayelid ruins gets really boring.Lack of weapons such as Katanas,Wakizashi's,throwing weapons,and crossbows is also disturbing (don't give me M'Aiq's quote on this!).
Then:You remember how hard it was to get a Daedric Armor in Morrowind?Well,in Oblivion every fool has it.So much for rare.

The worst disapointment is RAI.
I remember the topic on the official forum(before Oblivion was released):
''What will make Oblivion special?''
You know what i said? RAI.There was one guy who said ''You people expect too much.RAI will be dumb.''Offcurse he got flamed,but guess who's laughing now.He was right.RAI system is a complete failure.They did good marketing with that ''dog flaming'' video,which turned out to be BS.I never seen an NPC throwing fireballs at their pets!
Sometimes they don't get to sleep at all (i remember a DB quest where muy target never sleeps),or they sleep in their armor
Their sentences don't make sence,and all they talk about is something that player can use.Like ''Look,a hint!''.They should be talking weather,clothing,food,whatever.....Something unrelated for the player.Even when you throw something at them,they just stand there and look at you

Havoc:Rocks in battle,but sucks otherwise.Decorating a house,draging bodyes,Or just simply placing something is so anoying and hard!I like to be challenged in battle,but this is something that is unworthy of my time.
Also just by walking you can make all the objects in the room shake.Try Gilded Geurafe in Imperial City.Bah.

Skill system:Nice,so we have perks.Well,i'm not quite happy with them.''A master of Heavy Armor will not be encoumbered while wearing it.''How the hell does that make sence?It doesn't.
Lack of skills such as Axe,Short Blade,Medium Armor,Enchantment is desturbing too.I like the MW skill system better.You could screw up in Morroiwnd,but you can hardly screw up your character in Oblivion.How suitable for any noob.
Most weird thing i saw is that your fatigue REGENERATES while runing.I mean that's just stupid.If i run a maraton,i sould be exousted,not regenerated!

Lack of Guilds.I'm a master of all guilds with my first char.I mean Morrowind had a lot of choice,while Oblivion is very limited.

I'm pretty sure i forgot a lot more,but this is quite enough.Right now i've installed some mods that balance the game.I hope they're good!





Still with all the complains i listed i played the game for 160 Hours.So i still think it's a good game,but definatly a degradation of Morrowind.Guess that mainstrem audience got what they wanted.The older players suffer.
Good we have the strong modding community,otherwise i would give up on this game a lot sooner.....

Posted by: Joryn May 5 2006, 12:36 PM

I voted are you insane. I know I shouldnt but although I recognise the problems you listed and agree totally with your opinions on them, they still dont effect me very much. The NPC dialogue is one big one I agree with you on. While I dont necessarily think the voice acting is bad, the topic range, interaction with loved ones, and replying system is terrible.

Although I sit there a hear a conversation between man and wife sometimes and they sound like they barely know eachother, it dissapoints me for about 10 seconds. Then Im just back to playing. Another thing anout NPC's randomly fighting eachother. I recently posted about an incident where an important MQ guy and alot of soldiers were waiting for me outside an Oblivion gate.

When I finally get outside of the gate I find them brawling with eachother. So I obviously had to reload. After shouting a few profanities I had forgot the incident once my game reloaded.

Maybe Oblivion doesnt deliver everything it said it would in the way I wanted it to. But it delivers a way where I forget about its problems 10 seconds after I find them. Its certainly my favourite game, but suffers slightly from what Fable did. Im setting the standard of games too high. I shouldnt build up a game so much with my own imagination.

I will definately agree that, while more lifelike than Morrowind, radiant AI certainly didnt par up to what I was thinking it would do.

Posted by: Furious_George May 5 2006, 09:27 PM

RAI isn't about to pass the Turing test, but then I never expected it would. Of course it's nowhere near real life. I think many people had unreasonable expectations, albeit fueled by the Beth propaganda machine.

Compared to 'AI' from any other game, I see it as a significant step forward. I've found many actions of NPCs in the game add to my enjoyment of the game. One recently occurred when I was in full chameleon mode in the middle of Skingrad pelting everyone with arrows. I downed a civilian, and a guard kneels down, looks for a pulse, and mutters, "She's dead. DEAD!" and then runs off in terror (okay, the terror part was my role-playing but still). That would NEVER have happened in MW or any other game.

Posted by: HyPN0 May 5 2006, 09:44 PM

Quoted For Thruth!
I mean when you see that video about RAI you think:Revolutionary!
The woman sucks at marksmanship,drinks the potion,and voila she scores.
Then Thunder the Dog part.''Mommy has to read!''and then she flames the dog.That looked promising.
However it's not in the game.

Showing something in the video that isn't in the game and promising a lot and doing nothing.....well,i don''t know how would you call it,but i call it a big disgrace.

Posted by: Pisces May 7 2006, 09:05 AM

They did state that things like that wouldn't really happen, that was just a demo to show what was capable, she was told what to do but no scripting was involved.

Now saying that things like that won't happen was propaganda, I was expecting the AI to act sensibly and gaurds wouldn't get in fights with themselves and a 1/4 of the town.

Posted by: Agent Griff May 7 2006, 09:53 AM

For what you just said Hypno I now respect your opinions more. If there is an opinion that I entirely agree with it is Hypno's. Well put man! I chose "It was alright but it didn't really draw me in" as well.

I will put it all in a few short terms.

Root of the problem: hype

Bethesda hyped up the game too much, praising it to be brilliant and better than sliced bread. Well, alot of people believed it...and got dissapointed. I as well like to look back at Oblivion videos and see some thing and say "this isn't in the game!" or things like that. To be honest I think they dumbed down the game too much and to quote some guy from the official forums:

I also think Cyrodiil was too generic. Morrowind was more unique and I actually liked visiting the many different towns. Ald Ruhn with its organic style, Sadrith Mora with its many mushrooms and Balmora, nestled on the banks of the Odai river. Oblivion is too damn generic, I can't say anything about the towns, except Bravil. I really liked that place because it was a compassionate place.

Stargelman: Language, Mr. Griff!

Posted by: Ibis May 7 2006, 09:55 AM

Hmmm ... so has anyone tried to script anything like the lady flaming her dog, taking a potion to increase her archery skill, etc. using TESCS? Maybe the capability is there for us to script it if we want it to happen.
That's the only thing I can think of about why they would show it but say things like this won't automatically happen in the game.

Posted by: Cadaver May 7 2006, 10:21 PM

I voted it was a good game. The hype was really too much, and there was definately some setbacks from Morrowind.

I pretty much agree with everyone so far, so I wont rave about caves or RAI, but one other thing I didnt really like....

the fast travel...

In Morrowind, between Mark, Recall, the interventions, Silt Strider, boat, mages guild and the Propylon indexes, you could get anywhere in 5 minutes... Especially with the boots of blinding speed.

But even with all those things, it still felt like you TRAVELED there!! In Oblivion, you dont travel anywhere. You make a 1-2 hour investment of time, stealing a black horse, and riding it around discovering everything. Just discovering. Ignore enemies, just ride up close enough to "discover" it and you automatically get the name and location and can instantly get there whenever....

WEAK!!

Even on a black horse, have you ridden on the Gold Road out of Anvil, head south past Bruma and down to Layawiin? That trip takes FOREVER!! and you may even be stopped by "highwayman" which is neat!! I love that you will also encounter Black Couriers or Guards as well. I loved that the RAI would have people once a month be found TRAVELING TO THE NEXT TOWN TO VISIT THEIR SISTER!! Crazy!! I didnt expect them to act like "people" so I wasnt too disapointed in the RAI, but the fast travel is annoying... I almost wish there was a mod that shut it off and added mark and recall with up to maybe, 3 total marks or something (to make up for the interventions...)

I also liked the church factions, and the semi-opposed Tribunal and Temple of the Nine...

So while graphics were better (yay...) and gameplay of stealth, combat, magick was MUCH better, there is a lot of simple stuff that could have left over from MW...

Since I only bought TESIV to occupy me while deployed in Iraq for several months.... it IS serving its purpose, and I love it.....

Cadaver

Posted by: Ibis May 8 2006, 08:11 AM

It seems like all the highwaymen and bandits attack your horse right away. My horses ran away but then there was one who started stomping the mashed potatoes out of the outlaws. I loved that horse.

But yeh, I tend to just do the fast travel more often now to get there sooner.

Posted by: ThanadoS May 8 2006, 08:35 AM

Hmm i enjoyed oblivion alot for bout 2 weeks. The graphics are stunning, i like the main quest, beautiful world, free to explore...
but then, it gets boring fast. After completing side quests and maybe guilds, all the other quest except for a few seem useless and not motivating. There is still no interaction with npcs, houses, horses,... are not necessary, money is not a question any more after some hours of gameplay, once you found a really good set of equipment there is absolutely no need to search for more (no finding, no searching, no "success" of an awesome treassure found etc.).
You were also right about everything looking quite the same. The same towers, same ayleid ruins, the same mines and caves, with pretty much the same enemies.
The game isn't as complex as they promised imo, which is a big drawback.

After all, i enjoyed the game as i said, but i had to vote for "disappointed".

Posted by: HyPN0 May 8 2006, 09:42 AM

HAHA!So they DID state such a thing? When was that?
Well,that anouncment surely wasn't that widely announced as their ''Revolutionary RAI''.I bet a lot of people did expect to see at least similar things in the game,if not that specific moment.I mean they DID have 4 years
Why showing things that aren't there?
Simply:To draw attention.
Offer something good,give something bad.
Losers.

Well thank you!

That isn't a censored word?


So now what?lLet the modders do it?
''We will provide a dumb version,let the modders do all the work!''
If that is the case,Bethesda is a group of very irresponsible programmers.
Although ,that isn't far away from the thruth.

Posted by: Joryn May 8 2006, 10:34 AM

So many people are being really harsh on Oblivion. I liked many parts and the one's I didnt I could let slide. There are many complaints, as I have already said I agree with, but I dont know why many give it such a negative reaction.

The one part I would actually say I am disappointed about it the lack of ways to show your character other than combat. An example would be a mages guild quest where someone will say "we need to find out more about this, go see whatshisname". You do and from there its just finding one person to the next, until you find out what you need to and feel you accomplished nothing.

I would prefer a "We need to find out this, go see what you can dig up". Sure thats pretty vague and some people wouldnt have a clue where to begin, but at least if you could finish it without the NPC directing you every step of the way, you would feel more like you made a difference.

I felt the same way about Telvanni and the mages guild in Morrowind. You werent a powerful wizard who devotes some of his time to his own studies and experiments. You were an errand boy who spend all his time running round doing pathetic tasks for others and never doing research for yourself.

I see this often throughout most rpg's and I saw it when I was playing through Oblivion (not just the mages guild). Most other problems werent that big, or were big but I could let them slip. My point overall is I wanted a role playing game where the role play outside of the combat was a little more involving.

Posted by: Pisces May 8 2006, 10:51 AM

They did to a lot for 4 years, I don't know how long MW took but it was 6 years inbetween Daggerfall and MW, they did work on Battlespire and Redgaurd inbetween but it was 4 years since Redgaurd and they made TB, BM and a whole bunch of the crappy games they use to fund themselves inbetween MW & OB. OB uses more advanced software which makes it longer to make and doesn't cut time down anywhere, if they were to make MW now it would still take them exactly the same amount of time. Now I would have perfered if they delayed the release another year so they could work out more bugs and do more guilds and such but then we would all be here swearing about how Bethseda betrayed us.

Posted by: DarkHunter May 8 2006, 11:25 AM

You know whats interesting about a previously claim?

He was talking about how it was useless to go get a house, or a horse or anything micianious (Sp...) because the game is about the quests... WRONG!!! The game is a RPG which means you try to pretend to be you're character, live your life in Oblivion. For instance in Morrowind, I broke into Fargoth's house and lived there setting up meals, organizing bring Dwemer Artifacts there... etc. But I lived in Fargoth's house A month game time as i went to sleep at 10pm (game time) and had my character wake up at 9am (game time) and it was fun!

The point of an Rpg is to try to live a life in a different world than our own, thats what makes TES better than the other MMORPG's (sp...) like Runescape or Guildwar. You can live A LIFE in the cultured world of TES by learning the history and having a house decorated, or collected in the same fashion..............

Rant Mode Off

Posted by: HyPN0 May 8 2006, 11:34 AM

HAHA
Well,who knows what would happen?
I am annoyed with the fact that they promised a lot,but provided so little.
And that's not just RAI mind you (see my first post).
I think that they were more focused on graphics and ''make-up'' then in deeper gameplay.

It's really good that we have such a strong modding community though.
Some balance mods can really improve gameplay.Like slow leveling and G_'s Loot mod.Not to mention the wonderful BT Mod that makes the GUI a LOT better than Bethesda's.


Who said that?

Posted by: itsupthere May 8 2006, 12:30 PM

I like the game itself, I just don't like the support that Windows XP Professional 64-Bit Edition is getting. FIX IT ALREADY, [censored]!

Stargelman: Watch your language!

Posted by: Neela May 8 2006, 01:08 PM

My personal view on Oblivion is actually a contradiction of views really. I think Oblivion taken by itself is a great game. It has easily consumed 100's hours that were fun and enjoyable. This much time of course only because of the easy moddability of the game. Few games I purchase can boast so much playable time.

On the other side... I might also be considered one of the complainers about the game, simply because I am also viewing Oblivion based on its predecessors in the series. The TES series, to me, was 10 levels above the standard fare of games and as such, yes, I held them to a different standard. These were games that I would literally spend a full year playing non-stop. Mostly because they were truly Role-Playing Games. Oblivion lost alot of its Role-Playing.

The fun and wonderment of the game is slowly being lost as I start to realize I am running out of things to truly explore. There is very few things that feel unique to discover and most of the quests left no feeling of conquest or achievement because it took little effort and no thinking to complete each one of them. In fact, instead many times the feeling was frustration at the lack of options and openness in the quests.

Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind each lasted me years of play because there was so much to do and explore. Sadly, Oblivion feels more like a sequel to Battlespire. It was fun to play through, but really the single-solution quests take away the replayability of the previous titles.

The serious lack of any new lore or any real depth to the land, its people, and its politics have greatly lowered my expectations for any future TES games.

Before I make this post any longer... I HOPE that Bethesda will realize they took the wrong direction with the game in making it so simplistic and make TES V a title worthy of the respect I once had for the series. I fear though that this is a trend in the new generation of gaming that will have me lamenting the loss of the good old days of PC gaming.

Posted by: Agent Griff May 8 2006, 06:04 PM

The funny thing is that the devs have been trying desperately to make that impossible. It seems they don't want people actually spending more time with their games as was before.

And after reading Neela's post I say it once again: I now respect your opinions more after reading your opinion on Oblivion. You said a great many sensible things and it was well put. Congratulations!

The awful truth is that Bethesda have been giving us something in one hand and taking something away in the other. That's the truth. Now I say something to Bethesda and they should do good to listen to this. Make 2 game series! One retarded game for the consoles with great graphics and a nice fight system but with shallow gameplay. Another game for the PC crowd which will continue the legacy of Morrowind and Daggerfall and bring pride to the series. Stop dumbing down the damn game!

Posted by: Kiln May 8 2006, 08:17 PM

Morrowind was great for both the Xbox and the PC, the system is not the issue here, the X360 had plenty of power to run it, the devs just didn't use it to make the game as in depth as we'd hoped...

The game wasn't dumbed down because it was available for other systems than the PC it was mainstreamed so that Beth could sell more copies which is obviously the goal of any game company.

So lets not make this a system war k? Those are not so good.

Posted by: Agent Griff May 8 2006, 08:57 PM

I'm not making this a system war, I don't care about the system to be honest, but I was just stating the obvious. The game has been showing increased signs of console-zation (if there is such a word) as in making the game more like a console game than a PC game. Changing the interface and the inventory system for example. I liked the Morrowind journal, it actually felt like a journal. In Oblivion they gathered up everything they could and made it one thing, the Journal. When I first accesed the journal to be honest I couldn't understand a thing. I randomly clicked on those silly icons until I found what I wanted. There isn't one bit of writing in the initial screen of the jounal! That is a sign of console-zation if you ask me. I hope the game doesn't become an exclusive console game, that would be the ultimate bad thing that could happen. No more mods, no more console, no more CS. That is cutting away way too many options for some people.

Posted by: Fethenwen May 8 2006, 09:51 PM

Aye, the "console-zation" of the game is a big minus. The journal thing and especially the way my character moves and jumps and the camera moves feels very console. Ok, the characters in Oblivion move nicely and realistic in compared to for instance Morrowind, but too fast and they jump very high
Oblivion is too easy, that's the biggest thing that I get a bit frustated with. You don't have to think at all if you don't want to, and complete every quest easily with the help of the journal and maps and markers.
But still quest in Oblivion gives a feeling of 'WOW' for me. They are a bit more action packed, at least they give a impression of being that. The only action packed quest I remember from Morrowind was to save that lady (I don't remember her name) but maybe you remember the part you had to go to the High Fane and sneak in to that floating rock to save her and teleport away. Morrowind had lots of fetch that and give it to that guy "quests". Like: go and buy five portions of muck
All in all, I'm very impressed with Oblivion. As I like to play sneaky characters, I've noticed that there's so much to do for the moraless thug. It even feels like one of the Thief games some times.
And the combat system is great it really feels like your in somekind of control of what you do, it's not just click and smash. It's more like; click a little and a little bit more, parry, slide, and click; now
There is some few flaws and disappointments, like the lack of strange and imaginative wierd details (which got me draw my breath in Morrowind), but compared to all other rp games I've played so far, this really is a masterpiece.

Posted by: Kiln May 9 2006, 12:00 AM

Yeah it's a great game when compared to most other games besides Elderscrolls games, for some reason I measure them on a completely different level than other games. Oblivion removed too much of the weird stuff that kept you wondering and gave you that surreal feeling, I personally think OB was just too real.

The journal could have been different, I also liked the Morrowind version better but I played on the Xbox and it didn't seem badly done, the triggers turned the pages and the "A" button selected entries.

I also liked in Morrowind that the entries were actually written as if the character had written them not like in Oblivion where it seems like a computer wrote them.

Posted by: ThePerson98 May 9 2006, 03:52 AM

It only seemed to have one culture..
To tell the truth I had much more fun when I played morrowind for the first time. Oblivion immediately didnt have the same feeling. It has the freedom, but everything is repetitive. In morrowind you go to the swampy fishing culture of Seyda Neen and Hla Oad. Then on the east coast the mushroom houses and the grasslands. Then on the south coast the vivec building-type. Then around that is the ashlands, bordering the forests. Then you go find ashlanders. Head to the center and find blight storms. Around that being the Redoran like buildings..that look like bug things.. I dunno. Head to solsthiem for the nordic north culture.

In oblivion, a lot of the houses look the same. And are dull. And no one seems different in it. I want morrowind to quit popping errors up >.< I miss it.

Posted by: DarkHunter May 9 2006, 11:06 AM

Well, I haven't got Oblivion yet so... But I'm still sitting here enjoying playing Morrowind...

Posted by: Joryn May 9 2006, 11:24 AM

Pity there arent more people like me. I use both the pc and console. I dont do this moronic thing where I pretend there is some major difference between the two. Of course like I said, since I look at it from both sides I see an awful lot of pcs users being so arrogant. I cant blame them really, Im sure playing console games means you have a COMPLETELY different method of playing games altogether.

Please people, while you brought up plenty of good reasons why the game isnt as good as previous ones, please leave the "It was dumbed down for console users" excuse alone. Its really pathetic. Some people have good reasons for playing Oblivion (or any games for the matter) on console.

Like me, I chose not to pay the insanely priced upgrades for my average pc and chose the insanely priced (but slightly cheaper in my case) Xbox 360. If you dont like Oblivion, fine. But Oblivion being released on the 360 should have nothing to do with why you dislike it. Because I for one have not seen a valid reason how PC games and console games differ.

Posted by: DarkHunter May 9 2006, 11:47 AM

The console, has caused a downgrade in all games, because the console is more played by kids and teens. While the computer (which is only used for Msn for those little ********) is an obsolete piece of machinery to them. And the kids of today love gangsters, rap, etc... so they like the hacking and slashing games of the console (Halo). So Bethsada had to take out all the longer quests and make them a lot shorter so they could have the kids interest.

In my opion Bethsada shouldn't release 2 different games depending on the machine you play on, they should release it for Mature Gamers and Child-Teen Gamers. So that way, us who like to Rp can. And the kids who love hacking and slashing can do thier thing...

Posted by: Joryn May 9 2006, 12:18 PM

Well if what you say is true then blame the developers not the consoles and their users. The console HASNT caused a downgrade in all games, the developers have. They are the ones who feel the need to cater for the rapping slashing ganster kids. They should simply ignore what they want, and make it for the console and pc gamers who enjoy playing involving and smart games.

So, just like you said, more mature rated games with better content. And I guarantee you the sort of person you listed doesnt just stick to playing console games. I know plenty of people like that who happily play pc as well as console. So dont try to separate stupid gamers and smart gamers into console gamers and pc gamers, because its an insult.

Edit: Im not saying you are separating those people or doing anything in this post Darkhunter and I can see my post would give that impression, I apologize. But this is a sore spot for me as I feel since I play console games I get labeled as a moron.

Posted by: Kiln May 9 2006, 01:10 PM

This guy put my thoughts exactly, Joryn has the same thoughts as me on the "dumbed down for the consoles" crap. Quoted for truth.



Once again, his opinion is the same as mine, quit blaming the consoles...it hasn't been dumbed down for the console...that isn't the reason the game isn't as in depth because the developers wanted to mainstream it to get better sales for the Xbox and the PC.

Oh and Darkhunter...I use the computer for MSN so lets keep any possible insults to a minumum ok...

Posted by: Furious_George May 9 2006, 02:06 PM

Let's try to keep this on topic.
Obviously, The Elder Scrolls has been fine on consoles... look at MW.
So, any more on-topic comments on whether you like OB?

Posted by: Agent Griff May 9 2006, 06:02 PM

Morrowind was fine on consoles because it was ported from the PC. Oblivion was more mainstreamed to catter for more sales on the consoles and the PCs alike. The devs should realise that people aren't retards and that they appreciate a game that makes you think and appreciate it for its depth, like the previous TES games were (At least that's what I think). I remember how I called one of my friends over to my shack and I showed him Morrowind. I liked to tell him about the religion and show him the various types of culture. I even showed him Vivec once. When I started showing him Oblivion it was rather bland and generic compared to Morrowind when it came to lore and things like that. At least that's what he told me. I, myself, didn't have that much to show him since there's only so much of Bravil and more unique cities like that that can be shown before it gets old.

Posted by: DarkHunter May 9 2006, 08:14 PM

I'm not saying that console users are morons or anything of the sort. I'm insulting the younger generation and thier horrible taste. And I'm sorry about the Msn thing, I was only saying that younger kids ONLY use the computer for Msn, and that drives me insane...

Posted by: Agent Griff May 9 2006, 08:48 PM

Ah well, the younger generation is pretty weird. And from what I see with the MSN, I see you're a conservative Dark Hunter, are you not? As I've seen so far, I think "The Next Generation" would become a word all TES players loathe.

Posted by: DarkHunter May 9 2006, 09:54 PM

I agree with you, finally, and yes I am a little conservative... just a little...

Posted by: ThanadoS May 9 2006, 09:58 PM

hmm regarding some of the later posts in here, i'm inclined to compare modern games, which are in many regards no match to their ancestors, with modern books. Massproduction for a massmarket with ideas of the masses only containing what the mass wants to see.

You won't find a book that could meet lets say a 19th century book, only as a rare exception to the rule.
Same with games. Good, funny, entertaining, but not exalted.

Posted by: Kiln May 14 2006, 10:08 PM

I think that perhaps the biggest problem with Oblivion was that for some reason no matter what I did I didn't really feel that it was a great accomplishment. In Morrowind I actually felt as if I'd just raided a unique ruin when I stole from a tomb or something, in Oblivion they all seem too much alike.

Maybe it's not that Oblivion is bad, maybe I just set my standards too high because of Morrowind...I dunno what it is, I simply didn't feel like it was a fantasy world when I played Oblivion, there wasn't enough weird stuff to keep me guessing.

Posted by: Fuzzy Knight May 21 2006, 02:54 PM

Missed this thread - but I most say I was a little disappointed by Oblivion.

I've been following this game since I joined the TES Forums and then I finally got it. I played for hours a day, exploring, doing quests and all that. I agree with many of the disappointments here, about the NPCs poor conversations etc. cause I agree with Kiln alot.

Something that disappointed me the most was the Main Quest and quests in general... On Oblivion I did focus more on the MQ then I did in Morrowind. But, it felt poor. It was mostly the the 'fight and find' kinda thing. I don't remember the hour differance between the MQ on Oblivion and Morrowind, but the MQ in Morrowind felt nearly four times larger than Oblivion. First of all, the fast travel and compass kinda ruined it all - all was too easy and little exploring. You end up jumping into another Oblivion Gate after another. In Morrowind it all felt much larger, the landscape and everything it was really fun exploring while everything in Oblivion looks the same.
Completeing the MQ in Oblivion at level 16, playing with pretty high difficulty I found out it was challanging, but it was the fighting which was challanging but most the other quests wasn't that fun to play, great ideas like the painting brush and all that, but... it wasn't anything I felt apart in - the way I wanted it to be.
At the end of the quests I also agree with Kiln was the 'great accomplishment' feeling when finishing a big quest or the main quest... In Morrowind, I really got that feeling 'Yes, I've done it - Finally" completing the main quest in level 63.

The dungeons and everything to, I didn't enjoy going into a dungeon or tomb like I did in Morrowind. In Oblivion I was hoping for it too happen something, I was running around, trying to find different switches to open doors and all that but I wasn't really enjoying many of the dungeons. In Morrowind, they were also much a like but I had a much better feeling.. feeling like the character when I went to raid a tomb.

Comparing all good and bad from Oblivion - against Morrowind, Bloodmoon and Tribunal it was very little in the general gameplay I was happy about. I miss the feeling of those real challanges which I experianced in Morrowind, depth, the main quest which seemed so HUGE compared to Oblivion's MQ...

I haven't played Oblivion in a month now, my character is stuck at level 20 or something - but I played Morrowind until I reached level 66 or something - with about two or three quest mods installed. So after following this game as long as I did before I got my hands on them, I'm disappointed but maybe I'm in the same situation as Kiln - Simply expected to much.

So what I've been trying to tell here, is that I just miss the feeling of being apart of something, as I did in Morrowind. We also have the technical issues, which can be found in both games. But those I haven't really encountered yet and something I really don't mind all that much.

I really hope there will come out some really nice expansions and mods soon, with large and deep quests which really makes the game more fun...

That's all I have to say...

Posted by: Joryn May 21 2006, 06:57 PM

I will DEFINATELY agree to that. There was just something in the main quest, and plenty of the guild and misc ones, that made me think "somethings missing here, Im sure of it". And its a shame because there were some great bits.

I thought Martin Septim and Mankar Camoran were great characters, with great voice acting. Its a pity they were giving more ways to show and continue with it. The actualy storyline of Morrowind is unbelievably better than Oblivion.

It was so much more epic, it was full of prophecies and trials and destinies. In Oblivion your a mysterious prisoner, who doesnt seem to be recognised by name throughout the entire game (in text I mean, they used to do that alot in Morrowind didnt they?).

It was just "Oh dear, I witnessed the Emporors death. I must now toady about for the rest of the main quest, obligated to do what complete strangers tell me to...."
I dont hate the game, but I certainly think Beth said "Im bored, lets just finish this quick and go home" in certain aspects of the game.

Ill say one thing to finish on though. If you ask me, you can always tell a casual Elder Scrolls player apart from a hardcore one, when they say "The only bad point about Oblivion is it will consume your life!!!".

Posted by: Dantrag May 22 2006, 04:59 AM

It's disappointing in some ways, but not enough to make me stop playing. It just seems like they made it harder where it didn't need to be (I'm so tired of having to recharge my items every half-second) and made it easier where it didn't need to be. (Fast travel for example; I was perfectly fine with silt striders, boats, and recall. They could've given us caravans/caoches, boats and recall.)

All in all, I enjoy the depth of the quests more; some of the DB quests were ridiculously well-thought out. I especially liked the one where I had to kill everyone in the house without them knowing...

Posted by: Ibis May 22 2006, 07:16 AM

Well, my hubby Cain is thrilled with Oblivion because his computer handles it with no lag, no problems ... but for me, I cannot afford right now the upgrades it would cost to make Oblivion run more smoothly and enjoyably on my comp.

I play it for awhile in spurts, but the lagginess gets to me after awhile, especially when some populated areas just go by frame by frame it seems. That's when I stop. I've been modding a bit for it, but I've now found out that my computer with it's present double boot setup of w98/w2k split hard drive cannot in anyway fit the exploded data files of Oblivion onto the w2k hard drive area. I would have to give up playing Dungeons & Dragons or Guild Wars, both of which I enjoy. That means - no retexturing modding for Oblivion, which is something I really love to do.

So, I've returned to Morrowind modding for now. Making some celestial wizard robes that I intended to be for Oblivion when I found the textures. But, I figure I'll make them in MW and then later maybe, after I reformat - I can remake them for Obliv.

Posted by: Furious_George May 23 2006, 11:34 AM

Shoot, Ibis, if I had a comp laying around that would get you good framerates, I'd send it to you... alas I don't

I'm starting to agree with the other folks.... I'm still playing OB, but doubt I'll play it as much as MW overall. There are some absolutely fantastic parts to OB that still take my breath away, and bode well for the future - if Beth can get the story right again.

Posted by: DarkHunter May 23 2006, 04:29 PM

Wonder where their going next? (Here's hoping for Valenwood... I wanna kill Wood Elves!!!!!!)

Posted by: Kiln May 27 2006, 09:30 PM

I dunno, I just hope that there's more fantasy elements in the next game because this one seemed to be missing a lot of things that kept me interested in MW.

Posted by: Agent Griff May 28 2006, 11:31 AM

The cities were much too generic and most books were borrowed from Morrowind. I had more pleasure exploring in Morrowind knowing that I could find loads of unique things. I remember the amazement I felt when I found a Velothi tower in the ashlands that had 3 Redoran warriors inside and a Telvanni wizard who was hiding. Scratch that from Gondor "Cyrodiil".

Posted by: Pisces Jun 3 2006, 10:39 AM

Personally I thought the cities had plenty of character in Oblivion, it wasn't smack in the face "OMG, they live in mushrooms" character but they each had their own artechure and style and much more interesting was the subtile character which MW was missing, eg the Argonian vs Khajiit racism in Leyawiin.

Posted by: Ibis Jun 3 2006, 11:18 AM

Bah! I like Anvil ... because my Khajiit Kingdom is there. Someone mentioned that they hope that Bethesda goes to Valenwood next so they can shoot bosmers; but I know Pisces & I both hope that their next stop is to Sommerset Isle so we can make fun of all the hoithy Altmers.

I was so happy when the rumors were floating that the Isle was going to be the next game location - before Oblivion came out - but like most rumors .. it was just that.

Posted by: Pisces Jun 3 2006, 11:25 AM

The rumor about oblivion's content before oblivion was announced was pretty (completly) accurate, though that wasn't a rumor, it was an educated theory. I don't think the Summerset Isles rumor is an educated theory, more like wild speculation. I do want to go to Summerset Isles

Speaking of Khajiit kingdoms, have you been to Borderwatch (I think thats the name), that is my favourite town, full of Khajiit. I went there quite a few times and its always a pleasure, I use the sheep there as training whenever I go.

Posted by: Ibis Jun 3 2006, 02:03 PM

Well, I will watch for BorderWatch on my map .... but you really lost me about the sheep.

**Ibis shudders to think what Pisces is doing with the sheep**

Posted by: Lord DoomsDay Jun 3 2006, 10:55 PM

Under a starry sky over a vast grass plain baa's of sheep can be heard.
Farmer Brown looks out his window to see what all the racket is all about.

Farmer Brown: O'h Bloody Oblivion! It's That fish with the gaint axe again. Martha!!! Get me my bow! Its time we settel this.


In any case back to the subject, Oblivion is a game, like any other game out there or any thing in egsistance (Sry for spelling) for that matter it is not perfect.

Personally I think Oblivion is a bench mark in what games these days can achieve.
No other game out there has such a vast 3D world to explore with such a freedom of choice.
Sure there's a lot left to be desired, but witch game doesn't have its flawes bugs and bad developing choices'es.
No game can say it has done what Oblivion has done.
Morrowind was and still is a great game, but it's engin was totally crap.
MW has longer out door loading times and in places more lag than Oblivion on my pc.

I hope that two things will hapen in the future.

1: Other developing companys see's the potential of Oblivions engin and uses it for they're games. (Can you just imagine the possiblety's)

2: Bethesda stops trying to make money out of their mini mods and puts all they're energy into a full blown expansion that has more dungen and story line content variaty.

Considering what Bethesda has accomplished I say hats off.
Even thou they seemed to try and apeal to the masses rather than stay true to their roots in some places.


Ar least it isn't a bug fest like BF2
(no dictionary's where harmed during this horred spelling sestion)

Posted by: Ibis Jun 4 2006, 07:54 AM

Hahaha .. LordDoomsDay, I love your imaginative little scenarios. And fried fish would look lipsmackin' good at the end of a skewer arrow! Don't forget to tell farmer Brown'w wife to save me the scales. LOL

And I suppose you are right about Obliv for the people with the proper enough hardware to run it okay. MW did have terrible lags as it went from square to square of real estate. And I don't hear too many people complain about the game just dropping out like MW did for so many people.

Posted by: mplantinga Jun 10 2006, 01:18 AM

With the release of the first patch containing the new "very low" graphics setting, I've been able to coax my computer to play Oblivion with a reasonable framerate. It looks really bad (compared to what it would look like on a much better machine), but still looks better than many other games I've played. I haven't really spent that much time with it yet, so I'll have to reserve final judgement. But here's what I can say so far:

1. I really like Oblivion's magic system. I decided long ago that my first character would be a mage, and I've really liked the ability to switch between staves and spells fluidly during combat. I'm sure it would be even better for battlemages; a battlemage in morrowind usually got killed while trying to get his spell hands out. Forgive me if this is evil, but I really like the fact that spells don't fail anymore. It always drove me nuts when I had just enough time to cast a single protective spell before the enemy closed to melee range, only to have it fail and get cut down mercilessly in my unprotected state.

2. I like the fast travel. I know, that may be somewhat heretical, but my recent playing of morrowind involved a lot of use of the coc command because I got bored always traveling places. I still did it sometimes, but there are times you just want to get there and get to the action. Having said that, I've also enjoyed exploring the forests in Oblivion. They definitely look much better than Morrowind; I just wish I had a computer that could do them justice.

3. I miss levitation. I've only played the game for two days, but I already miss it.

4. I don't miss the cliffracers. Flying enemies are evil.

5. Same problem as Morrowind: not enough restore magicka ingredients. I always use the atronach birthsign for my mages, but it is quite expensive to buy restore magicka potions from the vendors. I still haven't found a good natural source of (at least two) ingredients for these potions. But as I said, Morrowind had the same problem.

6. I haven't yet tried out melee or ranged combat, so I can't really comment on those yet.

Conclusion: I decided long ago that I would probably enjoy playing Oblivion. With a couple days experience, I think I'm definitely having fun. That's really the important part. I'm sure I'll continue to have fun playing for many hours to come. I just hope I can manage to get enough sleep.

Posted by: Pisces Jun 12 2006, 10:21 AM

The magic systems is AWESOME! Have you seen the soul trap casting effect? it looks sooo cool. Just wait until you can summon a daedroth, then you're unstopable! I'm switching between a ranger and a battlemage, my battlemage has lost abit of its battle to the awesome mage fun but it can still take a pounding, my ranger is weak as, I really need to get her endurance, light armour and blade up, its fun being a theif though, poisons rock.

Levitation I still miss but I have forgotten about it now, there is a mod which adds it I think but all the dungeons are designed not to be able to use levitate so it would mess up things. The designers seem to be trying to make up for the lack of teleporting inside with short cuts out in long dungeons.

5. What are you talking about, there is tons of restore magicka ingrediants, flax seeds and steel blue cap are the 2 I used at low level I think. You will DROWN in flax around skingrad and steel blue something cap is less dense but tends to be everywhere, I think Leyawin or Bravil has some in the town.

Posted by: Fethenwen Jun 12 2006, 10:55 AM

Hey cool. I haven't tried out the soultrap thing yet. Aye, spellcasting looks very neat in Oblivion.

Posted by: Fargoth Jun 13 2006, 10:46 AM

RAI was most dissapointing!
Let me tell you a story:

I was in the dark brotherhood quest where I found Lucien Lachance.
He told me that there's a traitor, dark brotherhood hunts him...

And when he stop talking he starts to attack me!!! And then comes a woman
with Mythic dawn armor and defends me. After a few seconds Lucien Lachance has
escaped and I started to talk to that woman with mythic dawn armor. She tells
me:

"Thanks for closing that Oblivion gate outside the town!"...
The Mythic dawn agent thank me for closing oblivion gate?
That's stupid.

I have start laughing. Then I've really understand that OBLIVION IS DISAPOINTING. Especially Radiant AI!

Posted by: Agent Griff Jun 13 2006, 07:37 PM

Yeah, RAI was kinda dissapointing. I just read a post on these forums about RAI, it was made some time before the release of Oblivion, when the hype was still fresh in us. Here it is:

It's real if you don't believe me, just look at the first page of the mod idea thread "A Commoner's life" or something like that.

As far as the NPCs with a personality, I agree with that. NPCs with a very random personality, like the example with the Mythic Dawn woman. There are some NPCs that I like but the others are just cardboard. The only thing about them that's better than Morrowind is that they walk around town, talk with people and (sometimes) sit down. As far as eating, I've never seen an NPC eating and I've never seen an NPC practicing with a weapon as in the video Bethesda released a long time ago, the 20 min. video narated by Tod Howard.

Posted by: Olav Jun 13 2006, 08:08 PM

Yeah, that was quite disappointing. These features were among the main ones that really made me looking forward to Oblivion. Their absence have made me switch 'currently playing' games much sooner than Morrowind (now playing the aging Rome:Total War, Barbarian Invasion expansion pack).

Posted by: Fethenwen Jun 13 2006, 09:27 PM

What? I've seen a lots of NPC's eating and practisting with weapons. And they read too, amongst other things.

Posted by: Olav Jun 13 2006, 10:16 PM

Yeah, but it was probably pre-scripted when they did that. Let me know if you see an NPC doing anything of the above without interaction.

Posted by: FafsaTheElf Jun 16 2006, 02:13 AM

A lot of NPCs do that, and some refuse to take their heads out of the book to talk

Anyway, my main problem with Oblivion was, like a lot of people, the lack of depth. In Morrowind, one thing leads to another, and quests led off onto new ones for hours. Now, I can finish the Dark Brotherhood in about a day and not feel the urge to go off onto side quests and stuff. The quests are so shallow, as in they are short without much plot and intricusies.

Posted by: Pisces Jun 16 2006, 03:07 AM

I agree with Fethenwen, only a few NPCs don't eat, most of the ones who don't eat are the quest NPCs for some reason, they have strange timetables, like the dark brotherhood guy in Bravil who is set to stand at a statue from 5pm to 1am then return home to WANDER around his house untill he goes out to his statue again, never sleeps, never eats and he has 100% energy so when he is wandering for 16 hours he doesn't take a break.

If you go into the fighters guild then you can often see fighters training. Lets take Skasha at the Leyawiin fighter's guild, at midnight she sleeps for 6 hours, waking up at 6am, to train melee combat for 4 hours then she will wander around for 2 with aim, before having lunch at 12pm for 2, she will then proceed to the basement at 2pm for 4 hours before eating dinner at 6pm for 3 then wandering around aimlessly till she goes to sleep and starts the day over again.

Honditar, a trainer in chorrol who I steal my arrows off when he does his daily target practice, goes inside when raining instead of training archer meaning I can't steal his arrows. And if it is raining he will return home 2 hours earlier than he would stay inside longer than he usually would.

People at the mage's guild train their magic and do alchemy, infact I have gotten quite a fright when a fireball went shooting past me in the local mage's guild.

Have you never seen someone trying to steal their lunch? Or pickpocketing another NPC. I have had it happen a few times, of course they failed miserably.

They don't do as much as I would have made them done, but they hardly do nothing. If you have time in the editior the you can make NPC be fully lifelike, like someone will go out hunting for wolf pelts, sell them at local merchant, once they recieve a certain amount of money then they will go out and buy clothing, however a rival from when he was growing up likes to show off his greater success so whenever he sees X-npc in new clothing he will go and buy better cloths.

EDIT: Don't forget imperial foresters who are on a constant quest for 999 venison and won't stop untill they find it (in which case they will wander randomly for the rest of their lives!)

Posted by: Agent Griff Jun 16 2006, 10:45 AM

I mean a usual NPC, not a member of the Fighters Guild. I see those guys practicing often. In the video, the bookstore owner was practicing with a bow and she actually drank a potion to increase her skills. They increased and she started shooting better. I haven't seen this happen at all. I've seen NPCs reading once or twice. Anyway, Radiant AI is generally viewed as a superficial thing which is sometimes random and most of the time stupid. It is generally regarded as a joke. I think the best computer magazine in my country, Level, gave Oblivion its deserving score, an 8.8 which is quite fitting.

Posted by: Ibis Jun 17 2006, 12:13 AM

Well, as so often happens with creative endeavors - I think that we can all rejoice that Bethesda Softworks made such an exceptional and endlessly entertaining game as Morrowind and also mourn that even they themselves will probably never be able to repeat their performance. Oblivion is in no way a sequel or followup game to Morrowind.

They've really tried with the radient AI and the beautiful graphics, but the depth was lacking .... the quests, the expansiveness of MW, the repetition of dungeons, the fact that the architecture is all prefab in Obliv TESCS, the lack of weirdness for the animals, plantlife, architecture, funiture, etc.

Oh well, I'm not even sure that it is the same company exactly who made Oblivion. If you'll notice, Bethesda Softworks is responsible for Morrowind, Tribunal and Bloodmoon (Arena, Daggerfall, DarkStar, etc.) - - but it is Bethesda Gaming Company that looms up loud and clear on your opening credits of Oblivion. So, I'm not sure if this is of any consequence or if this perhaps explains the greediness of this new idea of ?selling? mods to us.

Hey dudes, work on an expansion to give us the looming feel of Morrowind in Oblivion somehow ... or try, at least. Don't picky-une us to death with $3 mods.

Posted by: Pisces Jun 17 2006, 05:11 AM

I know the book store owner used a bow, but in the game why on earth would a bookstore owner have a bow? You are basically upset that every single person in Cyrodiil doesn't act like a warrior Who else would train apart from the fighter's guild? The fighter's guild contains all the adventurers appart from the mage's guild who also train. Then there is the legion which gets active training and lets face it, you join the fighter's guild if you want to become an adventurer, the legion isn't full of people aspiring to become heros, they just want to hold a job so their hardly going to spend their spare time working, I mean they just spent the entire day fighting bandits or standing on patrol for that spare time. Then there is the gladiators, who want to become famous fighters by training constantly and testing their skills in a life or death duel, and so they all training constantly. Then there is hunters who train actively but a few also train in their spare time.

The only exception to the rule is the blades, who train when they are really just high ranking legion officers so shouldn't be training. But they are aspiring to become heros too and they became high ranking because they wasted their spare time training.

Posted by: Geonox Jun 17 2006, 10:32 AM

if you honestly ask me it wasn't realy disapointing, the graphics were great and stuff. But I just couldn't get into it. In fact I'm more disapointed in beth than their game. They bascly don't care about their fans anymore. I know they are busy 2 but they can't even come up with some updates. I mean they promised us so much but done so little.

The game wasn't realy disapointing I just can't get into it. Morrowind was 1000x better, just the oddness of the world and stuff. This is just a normal fantasy world. I'm actually playing Morrowind again...that says enough I guess.

Posted by: Ibis Jun 17 2006, 03:58 PM

Indeed Geo, I'm playing Morrowind too. You just have to load in some new mods and everything in Morrowind is different or at least exciting again.

Posted by: hunter14 Jun 19 2006, 05:18 AM

what i did not like was that u could not play multi player
the game would of been alot better if u could play online

other than that it was pretty good

Posted by: DarkHunter Jun 19 2006, 11:56 AM

Online.... No. That would be wrong. There'd be Deadric armed warriors chopping down all the newbs as they came out of the caves...

Posted by: The Metal Mallet Jun 19 2006, 08:57 PM

I think Bethesda wanted a more action-oriented game this time, and I think they did well with that, the fighting engine is vasely improved compared to Morrowind's and I really like that the stealth element to the game has been improved. Even with a character that was specialized in sneaking, I could rarely pickpocket a character in Morrowind. That was changed in Oblivion. I also like how magic and weapons work in a more in union, you don't have to rummage between modes anymore.

On the other side, content-wise, Morrowind was amazing. The lower amount of fast travel makes the player find things and curiousity often gets them to go explore things while questing. I love Morrowind's distractions. Oblivion didn't really do that for me. It felt like I was being taken by the hand everywhere. Personally I would go back to the Mark/Recall format than fast travel markers to found locations.

It would be great if ES V was a combination of Morrowind and Oblivion.

Posted by: Ibis Jun 19 2006, 11:22 PM

Yes .... set in the Sommerset Isles with the Altmers. I mean, they are so conceited, they really need a game of their own.

Posted by: ThePerson98 Jun 20 2006, 02:00 AM

The whole NPCs not doing anything you guys are talking about. Watch guards in the imperial city. Just go break into one of their towers. I was watching them one time and I think a few of the patrols would switch posts.

Wish they would actually make the guards people. Instead of just "Imperial guard"

Mod idea for some of you out there.

Posted by: DarkHunter Jun 20 2006, 02:37 AM

The Almer's must die... I even killed them all in Morrowind (even those ones hidden way out there in caves). Thier just so... arrogant.

Posted by: Ibis Jun 20 2006, 06:22 AM

Good job, Hunter.

Posted by: Kiln Jun 20 2006, 06:52 PM

Lets keep this on topic please.

Posted by: Tellie Jun 20 2006, 11:49 PM

Well, sure Iloved Oblivion, it was a great game...but I got dissapointed nonetheless, it just didnt give me that feeling that Morrowind gave me four years ago, and I had thought the game would deliever more...but still, its a 6 on the dice from me bethesda, (make sure you give us that lil'extra you gave us with Morrowind in your next TES game.....

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 16 2013, 08:27 PM

I voted "No", hats off to Bethesda (even though I don't have a hat).

I think that since I had no preconceptions about Radiant AI or some of the things Todd and Pete were personally promising in pre-release info, I had no reason to be disappointed. Chances are that if I had an Xbox, and therefore had Morrowind, I would have been upset about a few things. But I'm an open-minded person > I'm usually able to see good things where others see negatives.

So assuming I would have had Morrowind first, I probably would have been upset about a few things, but also ecstatic about others (like the way combat is handled).

Posted by: King Of Beasts Feb 16 2013, 08:30 PM

I really enjoyed Oblivion. It had a unique feel to it

Posted by: King Coin Feb 16 2013, 09:07 PM

I hadn't played Morrowind, I wasn't all over the forums speculating wildly about what the game will and will not do, so I didn't have any expectations build up to be shattered. So I loved it.

Now speaking to people that participated in the forums and was involved in that speculation... I can see why some people weren't impressed.

Posted by: SubRosa Feb 16 2013, 09:25 PM

I voted the Are You Insane option, as Oblivion was the only game I played for 3 years straight. I am also one of those people who were not exposed to any pre-game hype, so I had no expectations to be crushed.

OTOH, I learned many, many years ago with Doom 2 to never believe hype or create expectations about a game before it is released. I never get psyched up about any game, and will never pre-order any game. I wait until they are actually released and people have played it before I start thinking about getting it. That is why I waited about 5 months before getting Skyrim, and completely ignored the Skyrim forum over at Bethesda before the game came out. What is the point of talking about a game that no one can play?

I never played Morrowind until after playing Oblivion first. It I had played Morrowind first, I probably would have never bought another ES game. The story was alright, but I found the gameplay (not the graphics) to be pretty meh over all.

Posted by: King Coin Feb 16 2013, 09:31 PM

I'll get excited and preorder, but I'll never go into the forums and speculate. That is just a recipe for disaster.

Posted by: mALX Feb 16 2013, 09:52 PM

Voted: "Are you insane? It has consumed my life!" I mean, I've had the game 7 years next month and I'm stil playing it, writing about it, hanging around on forums discussing it. Had to buy my own XBox 360 and game since my son wanted his back. Then I bought a PC and had it stoked up to play Oblivion's hungry graphics and bought the PC game. (Then bought a laptop so I could take it with me on trips).

I also went out and bought Morrowind & Skyrim for both the 360 and PC, plus all the DLC's - based on my love of Oblivion. (Then downloaded Arena and Daggerfall, but couldn't play them).

(Not to mention buying Fallout 3 and New Vegas just because Bethesda made or was connected with the making of them). So yeah, pretty much consumed my life. My husband sure complains it does, lol.

Posted by: mirocu Feb 16 2013, 10:12 PM

Another vote for "Are you insane"

Like others I had no expectations, did not hang around any kind of forum and did not read any magazine and therefore did not create or participated in any hype. Oblivion and its concept came as a total surprise to me and blew me away like Megaton when activating the switch. Oh, sorry. That´s another game

Have played it constantly since Feb 2007 even though game time per session was immensely longer in the beginning. So I´d say I´ve been pretty hooked

Edit: Only now did I realise that mALX is a lass!

Posted by: mALX Feb 16 2013, 10:24 PM

Acadian thought I was an annoying hyper teen boy for a long time, ROFL !!! I think it is because my Foamy avatar is male, but no telling, lol.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Feb 16 2013, 11:54 PM

Wait, you aren’t an annoying hyper teen boy??!!

I doffed my cap to Bethesda, even though I came into the series with Morrowind. I get the angst that some Daggerfall and Morrowind players have toward Oblivion. It is the same as the angst that some Oblivion players have toward Skyrim. I take each game as it comes. Even though I believe that there are some things that Morrowind just does better (and vice-versa), I am not so blinded by my own preconceptions that I can’t acknowledge Oblivion’s greatness too.

Posted by: Colonel Mustard Feb 17 2013, 12:04 AM

I voted "it was alright, but it didn't draw me in" because, well, it was alright, but it didn't really draw me in.

I'll go pack my bags and flee town before the lynch mob assembles.

Posted by: mirocu Feb 17 2013, 12:06 AM

Captain Logical to the rescue!

But no need to flee, we´re all friends up here in the tree

Posted by: Kiln Feb 17 2013, 12:48 AM

It wasn't really forum speculation that caused the damage, it was Todd pulling a Peter Molyneux that did it. We got spoon fed a lot of bs over a long period of time and lots of people were let down because of it.

Oblivion is STILL my least favorite ES game because it was by far the most generic of the three I've played.

Posted by: King Of Beasts Feb 17 2013, 03:02 AM

http://postimage.org/image/v6rnwooln/

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 17 2013, 05:59 AM

I voted for consumed...

Not a great shocker that... ...

I absolutely adore that game...

If it wasn't for the two Assassin's Creed ones above it (which I adore a ridiculous amount) Oblivion would be, by a long-chalk, my all-time favourite game...

For me, it's almost perfect...

The only way it could have been perfect?...

No vampires... ...

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 17 2013, 06:24 AM

I almost voted this way, too. Oblivion did consume my life for awhile, but nowadays I only play once or twice a week.



It's fun to get psyched up! I dunno....*shrugs* I liked getting excited about Skyrim before it came out, and had no probs pre-ordering it, and standing in line on 11/11/11 with other gamers. It felt a like a mini-adventure, all of us were standing in this cramped GameStop looking forward to the game, and I got to meet some new people. Granted, most of them were young enough to be my teen, perhaps, but that's another story.

On the other hand, visiting (dealing with) Beth's forums before the game came out was nerve-racking. I wanted to participate in discussion, but back in those days ANYTHING that anybody said on forums could be taken as flamebait, and I don't have a very good flame-retardant suit. But (again) I'd rather participate and discuss.

Posted by: mirocu Feb 17 2013, 09:26 AM

Agreed. They didn´t feel like they belonged in Oblivion´s setting, even though I can live with killing them


Same here. But I do play frequently and c´mon, it´s six years later and I still play and talk about it! I had to vote Insane

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 17 2013, 02:03 PM

I would agree, friend.

This thread is both illuminating and depressing. Started reading it this morning and I can see where some people were coming from back in the day, but it also starts to bug me if I read too much criticism on one of my favorite games. It's like somebody is criticizing my child or something.

Posted by: Grits Feb 17 2013, 02:36 PM

I voted It’s a Great Game. I got it years after it had been released, so I had no expectations. Now since I’ve played Morrowind a little I get what people were saying in those old posts. I’m still not disappointed, but it’s easy for me to understand why so many other people were.

Posted by: Acadian Feb 17 2013, 04:03 PM

Quoted for Truth.

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 17 2013, 04:20 PM

I thank thee for spelling that out fully. Every time I read QFT I think "quit hamster cave talking!"

Posted by: mirocu Feb 17 2013, 05:36 PM

QFT

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 17 2013, 08:50 PM

Quite Futuristic Technology? ....Wha-?

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd Feb 22 2013, 03:35 PM

This is how I feel about Skyrim. I sometimes feel like BGS's Oblivion General Discussion forum is more about bashing Skyrim than it is about discussing Oblivion. When I get to feeling that way I have to leave or reading posts there makes me physically ill: my fingers begin to dig into my palms, my teeth begin to grind into each other and my jaw begins to hurt. Thanks to the anti-Skyrim sentiments of so many Oblivion players I feel less and less comfortable there. I mainly show up because I enjoy reading posts written by a handful of the regulars who can discuss Oblivion without flaming Skyrim.

Posted by: Acadian Feb 22 2013, 03:53 PM

I know what you both mean. When I go on the BethSoft Oblivion forums, it is to read and discuss the game I love. It saddens me to hear Oblivion bashed, just as I'm sure it saddens others to hear Morrowind or Skyrim bashed - and to no purpose except. . . competitiveness? I expect they're all fine games, and I'm simply delighted when someone finds a game they love.

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 22 2013, 07:40 PM

Methinks it be, Quite Flipping True-ish...




I agree...

I prefer Oblivion, the wife and kids perfer Skyrim...The main thing is, we all enjoy sitting there and watching the others go through the game, commenting and enjoying the view...

People love different things, you shouldn't bash stuff, five minutes later you may find yourself enjoying it... ...

Posted by: Kiln Feb 22 2013, 10:06 PM

QFT = Quoted For Truth.

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 22 2013, 11:09 PM

Oh, yes, there is that one too... ...

Posted by: Destri Melarg Feb 22 2013, 11:58 PM

I agree that bashing a game just for the sake of bashing it is truly annoying, but I think there is a place for honest criticism. If positive feedback was the only thing that the developers received then we would constantly get the same game over and over. The only way that any franchise evolves is if we, the consumer, express what we like and dislike about each entry.

For example, it concerns me that Bethesda seems to want to take these games in a direction that contradicts the reason that I started loving them in the first place:

- The faction quests are getting shorter and less thought out.
- The number of factions one can join is shrinking.
- The player is being forced into actions to progress in certain quests without the freedom to find a different solution.
- For some inexplicable reason (since Oblivion) one cannot wear robes over armor, and armor itself (in Skyrim) has been consolidated into one piece (armor) instead of three (cuirass, pauldrons, and greaves).
- My characters (even the so-called beast races) have ten fingers, yet (in Skyrim) they are only capable of wearing one ring.
- Key skills are being consolidated to the point that creating truly unique characters is becoming harder and harder to do (mastery of the sword shouldn’t automatically give someone mastery of the mace and war axe as well).

These things are the antithesis of the freedom that these games are supposed to provide. Raising these concerns doesn't mean that I am bashing the games. It means that I, as the consumer, have problems with the games that I hope future entries in the series will address. Even the child that you love the most does things that bother the heck out of you sometimes. Saying so doesn't automatically mean that you don't still love the child. If we don’t express our concerns this trend will continue until the games we’re being given every five years or so no longer resemble the Elder Scrolls that we have all come to know and love.

Posted by: Acadian Feb 23 2013, 01:35 AM

Constructive criticism to enhance the pedigree of future entries by Bethesda is easy to spot – and Destri just provided us with an elegant example of how to do it.

When I find myself biting my tongue at the other forum is when I (too often) see exchanges like this:
- How can you Blivoners stand those stoopid cartoony graphics? Nyah nyah!
- Yeah, well at least I can make my own custom spells! What smart atronach stole that from you Skimmers up there in your gray, colorless tundra? Nyah nyah!
- You’re all outlander newbs! Everyone knows there is only one REAL TES game! Nyah nyah!
- Oh, stop yer Morowhining and go back to yer mushroom house in the fog and yer static NPCs! Nyah nyah!
-Yeah? Well at least I got spears, you dumbed downers! Nyah nyah!

That’s when I retreat to the friendly, mature and reasoned sanctuary of chorrol.

Posted by: Kiln Feb 23 2013, 02:07 AM

The problem is that Bethesda doesn't seem to care much about many legitimate issues that players have brought up.

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 23 2013, 04:30 AM

REally? Wow I did not know that! I will keep this in mind because I do have my moments when I criticize Skyrim, but I also LOVE it to pieces. So when I criticize, it's not bashing, it's just me wanting (so much) to see certain areas improved.

...and I don't have mods , of course. Anyways, welcome here, Pseron. I am so glad you are here. Have some cake. We've got sugar-free cake and cake with LOTS of sugar in it. I prefer some good ol' fashioned sugar myself! Banana cake is my fave.

Posted by: mirocu Feb 23 2013, 09:36 AM

If I should ever see that here I´ll give you a call, Acadian
------------
Some very good points there, Destri. I really wish I could put my finger on things like you do. Problem is I know what i think but I can rarely spell it out.


The choice of platform is yours, Renee

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd Feb 24 2013, 05:52 AM

I should probably have elaborated on what I meant. Criticism of Skyrim is perfectly appropriate in a Skyrim forum, as far as I'm concerned. I don't think Skyrim is perfect. I have a fairly long list of things I'm not thrilled about, just as with Morrowind and Oblivion. But here is my objection: a Skyrim forum is the place for these criticisms, not an Oblivion forum.

I'm also not bothered by thoughtful comparisons with other games in an Oblivion forum. I do it myself. I believe it is appropriate to name check another game in the course of making a point.

We've had threads in the Oblivion General Discussion forum with titles like "What do you like about Oblivion?" You would think something like that would encourage people to actually post their thoughts about Oblivion. But, no. Inevitably some yahoo (and I mean that in the nicest sense) will post a 300-word rant that is solely about what they do not like about Skyrim, without even once mentioning Oblivion.

That I cannot stand. That is when I no longer want to have anything to do with the Oblivion General Discussion forum.

The same thing happened back in 2006-2007 with Morrowind. After Oblivion came out the Morrowind General Discussion forum was absolutely crammed with completely off-topic posts about how hideously awful Oblivion was (one needs only to read the early posts in this thread to know what I am talking about). I had to stop going there. I couldn't take it any longer.

Posted by: Kiln Feb 24 2013, 07:57 AM

Well my opinion has been tempered some since my posts back at the start of the thread. I've come to enjoy Oblivion to an extent but am still upset by the generic nature of the world and the creatures inside of it, which I feel is a valid critique of the game.

It has it's charms of course as did the prequel and sequel. Oblivion was my least favorite of the ES games that I've played (MW,OB,SR) because of a number of minor issues.

Skyrim however seems much more polished and is generally more fun. I have critiques about all three games to be honest but as a whole they're all pretty enjoyable ways to waste time.

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 25 2013, 12:26 AM

Ohhhhhhh yeah. This is true. Some folks expect Skyrim is supposed to be Oblivion II or something, and so they expect that everything in TES: IV should have been carried over.

My one pet peeve is folks who bash any TES game (not just Oblivion or Skyrim) while completely ignoring its better points. They all have pros and cons, and some of these are based on opinion, soley. Yet these 'yahoos' seem to think theirs are the only opinions that count. They often refuse to even be able to entertain the notion that somebody else's might also be just as valid.

Posted by: Lopov Feb 25 2013, 07:57 PM

Unfortunately people like these can be encountered anywhere IRL in as well, trying to show the others that only their opinion is the right one and that everything they disagree with, is not worth even trying... one prime example are the politicians, at least in our country. Luckily, we're getting the new government this Wednesday.

Posted by: PhonAntiPhon Mar 30 2013, 06:25 PM

It consumes my life.
I love my games but I have never come across a game as involving and as life-affirming as this one. I don't know what sorcery is at work with it but whatever it is it's phenomenal and more than welcome.

(I do think that the options should be in the present tense though! )

Posted by: mirocu Mar 30 2013, 06:57 PM

I have to agree with mr Phon here. No other game has made me play it for so many years with practically no break or end in sight. I consider it a natural part of my life now, like going to work or eat dinner.

Yeah, I´m sad. But happy!

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Apr 28 2013, 03:01 AM

Something that came to mind here. Daedra are all-powerful beings, right? The princes have their own sheer amount of power in their own realms and they aren't limited.

So howcome Mehrunes Dagon didn't just use his godlike powers of destruction and say, destroy the player for ever meddling in one of his deadlands? I mean surely he would want to do that if the person invading his domain is trying to thwart his plans to enter Tamriel, no?

Or is this another Bethesda plothole? I was looking for a reasonable lore reason but I can't really find any.

Posted by: Renee Gade IV Apr 28 2013, 03:46 AM

I haven't a clue. My knowledge of lore and history, though.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 28 2013, 04:01 AM

They may not be entirely aware of what is going on within their realms. They might be no more aware of what one being is doing in their realms than we are of what one virus cell is doing in our bodies.

Posted by: PhonAntiPhon Aug 16 2013, 05:24 PM

I am going to perform a completely unapologetic mini-necro on this thread just so that I can, on a whim, disagree with the title!
(Again, I think)

Posted by: mirocu Aug 16 2013, 05:30 PM

Watch out for Buffy, Phon. She hunts necrodudes

The only disappointing about this game is no matter how big it is, at some point it all gets familiar and it´s not the same feeling as it was in the beginning. But I can´t really blame the game for that, now can I?

Posted by: Renee Gade IV Aug 16 2013, 07:28 PM

I agree with you, Talking Crow. The only thing that's disappointing is we can't go all the way back to when we were n00bs, again. Aren't there drugs that cause memory loss? Perhaps this is the way to do it.

Posted by: mirocu Aug 17 2013, 05:49 PM

Don´t you go down that road, ms Gade

Posted by: ghastley Aug 17 2013, 07:54 PM

When it starts to get too familiar, I open the Construction set and change it.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Oct 1 2013, 09:52 AM

*Drags thread out of shallow grave and dusts it off*

What? I got here late.

I voted "are you insane". Seriously, this game is the main reason I've got stacks of games I've yet to complete. Any other game struggles to find it's way into my 360's disc tray.