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Posted by: Thomas Kaira Dec 12 2010, 03:12 AM

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/vga-10-elder-scrolls/708369?type=flv

Projected release: 11/11/11

It's coooommmming!

And with dragons at last!

Posted by: Verlox Dec 12 2010, 03:14 AM

Dragon Born: Only guy I can think of that takes that name is Ysmir, Dragon of the North, the Nordic aspect of Talos, Tiber Septim.

I like dragons and all, especially when I get to kill the serpentine bastards, but one has got to wonder if TES is straying too far int othe mainstream of fantasy.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 12 2010, 03:49 AM

And when the truth finally dawns, it dawns in FIRE!!

Dragon Born!!!

*That sound you hear is Destri's head exploding*

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 12 2010, 03:52 AM

Max von Sydow FTW! I hope he will be in more of the game than just the trailer.

So Skyrim it is? I am a little surprised. We already sort of had Skyrim in Bloodmoon, with Solstheim. So this is sort of going back to an old well. Well, vikings are still fun though. Not to mention dragons - which appear to be the enemy.

Posted by: mALX Dec 12 2010, 06:58 AM

WOOOOOT !!!! WOO HOO !!!!!! [POW!] ** mALX exploded **


Thank goodness I exploded before I was able to crow and brag that my predictions about TESV being here fall of 2011 and be named Skyrim (on the BGSF and Oblivion Addicts Club) - have all come true !!! WOOOOOOT !!!


*

Posted by: Captain Hammer Dec 12 2010, 09:42 AM

Ok. OK. I'm good. I can handle this.

Oh, who am I kidding?

SKYRIM!! DRAGONBORN!! WOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Channler Dec 12 2010, 08:35 PM

My inner nerd has been satiated for another year! Time to save up for a new computer...

Posted by: Olen Dec 12 2010, 09:13 PM

I'd love to be excited, and I am sort of but nothing like I was before Oblivion came out. I just didn't think OB was a patch on Morrowind and I'm sort of worried they're taking it even more into mainstream fantasy and will ignore the lore (not that there is much on dragons). Still perhaps it will be good, certainly the announcment seems to have spread fast (at least the death of the ES website suggests so).

So yea exciting, I'd expected Skyrim, I hadn't expected dragons. I'll buy it, until then I won't judge either way.

Dragonborn... could this be a referance to another heir to the Imperial Throne?

Posted by: Cardboard Box Dec 12 2010, 11:37 PM

Skyrim. Ice, Nords, maybe dragons, and definitely a content-free Flash intro screen that blocks entry into the rest of the goddamn site.

I suppose actually finding the effing Eye of Argonia was toooo haaard! for them.

Posted by: mALX Dec 13 2010, 12:08 AM

I think I have to agree with you. The trailer for Oblivion was nearly climatic to watch - I was panting with my credit card in my hand till it came out. I couldn't have stopped myself from buying it, the trailor was so exciting :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGzKapvOb_M


Compare that to the linked one for TESV: Skyrim - it gives me nothing that says "Get your Septims out and hold your breath till 11/11/11 - it's not epic.


One thing disappointing in the trailer for TESV: Skyrim was that it gave no hint at the action, gameplay, etc. A lot of talking while staring at that one wall of carvings, then the dragon rising and spewing molton metal flames - then nothing! No huge musical score, no drama - I expected at the end to see some quick flashes of the game itself, a battle, a dragon in action - something to let us know it will be worth the $60.

To me, that was a disappointing beginning after 5 full years of waiting for the [censored] game.

I am very excited that we will finally be getting TESV - and just hope it lives up to the wait...and hope it is way better than the 'effort' they sunk into that trailer.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 13 2010, 12:22 AM

Remember that yesterday was just the announcement that the game is finally coming. We still have a full 11 months until the release date! A complete trailer with gameplay footage is just too premature at this point. Let's all just savor the fact that the new game has been confirmed and take a 'wait and see' attitude with the rest.

Posted by: mALX Dec 13 2010, 12:32 AM

You are right, of course. I am excited that it is finally set - but kind of feel like Henry VIII waiting for the virgin that held out for marriage. After 5 years, I've waited too long, and fear the wedding night may not meet my anticipation of it. (it better, or heads will roll...etc. )

Posted by: Linara Dec 13 2010, 01:26 AM

I stay off UESP for one day, and when I check it again...YES!!!!!!!

Posted by: Kiln Dec 13 2010, 03:50 AM

Just remember that when Bethsoft says 11/11/11 they mean 20/12/12.

Posted by: gamer10 Dec 14 2010, 05:18 AM

No kidding. I'm not sure I enjoy games with dragons as a central theme, seems dangerously stereotypical. I played Dragon Age not so long ago and I didn't enjoy it much.

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 14 2010, 05:40 PM

Well, if it is like Beth's other games, you can probably just completely ignore the central theme of the game anyway and do whatever you like. Look at Oblivion, it is all about Daedra. But you can easily ignore that and almost never see a Daedra (outside of conjurer enemies summoning one).

Posted by: Acadian Dec 14 2010, 09:25 PM

I'm very excited to see how TES V turns out! I won't touch it of course until its been out for a year or so - time for everyone else to review, wiki, mod, patch, unglitch. . . . Seriously, I don't go near new games, but eventually I'll decide if it's fit for my character or not.

Posted by: hazmick Dec 15 2010, 07:54 PM

*POP* Hazmick has joined the many TES fans who have exploded due to excitement at the news of TES:Skyrim.

Posted by: Black Hand Dec 18 2010, 11:41 AM

The reason that OB was delayed and, in my own humble opinion, sucked, was because Bethsoft had a major computer meltdown which 90% of their data was lost when the game was almost finished.

They did, in my own humble opinion, a decent job with Fallout 3, and then Fallout New Vegas came out under Obsidian's Developers, the storyline was much better, as it was all grey, not black and white as Beths games tend to be.

Obsidian themselves could have been much greater then they are, especially if Lucasarts didn't have them rush out KOTOR 2. I know a lot of people don't like that game, but thats because they were rushed. I saw the great potential in that game, if they were just left to their own devices and given the time to make a polished product.

As for Skyrim, I'm sincerely hoping it isn't a medieval version of 'Reign of Fire'. It does however, sound dripping with lore. Dragons are represented in nearly every aspect of TES Series. From Akatosh to the symbol of the Empire, plus the Nords have an incredibly rich history despite their portrayal as dumb-barbarian-jocks, and it would be interesting to see the Ports of Solitude.

I look forward to creating an female Nord archer, hopefully with facial tatoos option this time, wearing fur armor hunting down a mighty elk as I stumble across an ancient Atmoran ruin or whatever token extinct race they have in this one.

Posted by: minque Dec 18 2010, 10:05 PM

OMG!! I'd love to see that! and I'm looking forward to see how they interpret the Nordic "lore"

gash, at last ...a game from my homeland...

Posted by: mALX Dec 20 2010, 05:38 AM

As many will know the Gamebryo formally used by Oblivion and Fallout 3 has been dying a slow death of late. On November 10th 2010 the assets of the engine were put up for sale. Such events have raised questions about Bethesda's choice of engine for TES V and the modability of any new engine that Bethesda might choose to use.

The most likely engine candidate was thought to be the id Tech5 engine that is currently being used for the upcoming RAGE game by id as well as the next Doom game. With Zenimax's (Bethesda's parent company) acquisition of id Software earlier on in the year TES V on the id Tech5 seemed like a very real possibility. Unfortunately the engine is not great for open world games and is even worse for modders due in no small part to the massive texture system the id Tech5 engine employs.

Since the announcement of TES V last night Nick Breckon has tweeted that TES V will use an all-new engine:


QUOTEWe can now confirm that the TES V: Skyrim engine is all-new. And it looks fantastic.


This coincides with a recent interview with Todd Howard on Eurogamer:


QUOTEEurogamer: Is it fair to say then that it's based on existing technology?

Todd Howard: The technology is ours and it is inspired by the technology we have. We have a lot of it. But that's our starting point - the Fallout 3 tech. It started with Morrowind, we went to Oblivion, we did a lot between Oblivion and Fallout 3 because now we had final hardware - with Oblivion we had six months on final hardware, so Fallout 3 technically does a lot more than Oblivion. The new stuff is an even bigger jump from that.


And finally an IGN interview with Todd Howard should put the rumours to bed:


QUOTEBethesda Game Director Todd Howard explained in a separate interview with IGN that his game would not use id Tech 5. The studio's new engine built for its upcoming title is more beneficial to creating huge, open-world games, such as Fallout 3 and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, while id Tech 5 is better for more contained environments.

"We decided to really reboot our technology after Fallout 3, so we had been making plans for that and started doing some things. The id thing came along later, so it's a mix of that plus the kinds of games we do are a bit bigger and more dynamic.

"Id Tech 5 is the best thing in the world at doing a very static environment that looks pretty and you're going to run through. But for the kinds of things I like to do, I like the world to be more dynamic."


While we have no details on this new engine it sounds like it has been specifically tailored for the Elder Scrolls series and games of similar ilk. We can only hope that Bethesda still love us, the modding community, enough to develop their tools with the end user in mind as well.

As it is an SDK is always at the furthest edges of a developer's mind so I wouldn't expect to hear anything about it (modding) way in to the new year and much closer to the release date. I would love Bethesda to prove me wrong though.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Dec 20 2010, 05:53 AM

That news both makes me happy and skeptical.

I'm happy because Bethesda is finally ditching NetImmerse/Gamebryo (or rather, the Frankensteinien hack-job they used for Oblivion and Fallout 3/NV), but Bethesda has a bit of a track record with poor coding, especially on the main TES releases. Morrowind had a number of coding flaws (some were serious), Oblivion is extremely twitchy and inefficient, and both of those plus Daggerfall (which incidentally also ran on an engine Bethsoft made in-house: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XnGine) have problems with savegame corruption.

I really don't know what to make of that announcement. I'm mostly just hoping that they put as much emphasis on stability and debugging as they did on improved rendering capabilities.

Posted by: mALX Dec 20 2010, 06:15 AM

I agree. They said it will be made to work on the current game systems - but that is all they have given out. The team at Obsidion was in the process of building their own when Black Isles was canceled, maybe they have been working with them on that.

Posted by: Florodine of Hlaalu Dec 22 2010, 01:30 AM

I'm super pumped about this but I don't even know if I'll be able to run it on my computer.

Posted by: mALX Dec 22 2010, 04:57 AM

Does anyone know what engine the Fallout: New Vegas was made on? I don't think it was the Gamebryo, but could be wrong. How will it effect our beloved modders to change from the Gamebryo? Some really good modders were given opportunities at Bethesda because of their abilities with the Gamebryo, they had learned all its quirks and work-a-rounds.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Dec 22 2010, 04:59 AM

It was made on the exact same engine as Fallout 3.

Posted by: mALX Dec 22 2010, 05:05 AM

You are right, I just looked it up.

Posted by: grif11 Dec 24 2010, 01:35 AM

Im hoping at some point there gonna make an online mode or something.

maybe they'll make a kinect mode!"xbox,murder peasant"

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Dec 24 2010, 02:14 AM

Well, what I want most is simple improved combat skill diversity, particularly with weapons:

-Blade (Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Claymore) <-Pretty much OK as it is.
-Haft (War Axe, Battle Axe, Mace, Warhammer) <-Name changed so the axes make more sense.
-Spear (Short Spear, Long Spear, Halberd) <-Needs to come back.
-Archery (Shortbow, Longbow, Crossbow) <-What happened to my crossbow in Oblivion? I want it back, too.

Posted by: Olen Dec 24 2010, 06:38 PM

Reintroducing the division between short-blade and long-blade would be good. Daggers and the like just weren't as good in Oblivion.

Some rebalancing could make it better too, then they could bring back medium armour

Posted by: Black Hand Dec 25 2010, 12:39 AM

If anything They'll oversimplify it even more....

Heavy Armor
Light Armor

Armor Skill

Blade
Blunt
Marksman

Damage you can inflict skill.

Mercantile
Speechcraft
Sneak
Security
Alchemy
Armorer

Do's it skillz!set....

And to make up for it, well have everyone call you Dovahkiin, Dragonborn!! Look at my watch..I mean, Shield!

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 25 2010, 01:54 AM

I prefer keeping it simple. I wear armor based on how it looks. So in Oblivion my characters tend to gravitate to Iron at low level, then Elven at higher, as those are my favorites. But the game penalizes you because one is heavy and the other light. To get around that I had to mod the game to make a version of Iron armor that is Light. I would much rather just have one armor skill. Perhaps one unarmored skill to go with it might be nice though.

Posted by: saqin Jan 7 2011, 12:31 PM

Really happy to finally hear something, not as happy upon entering the webpage of the company I buy games from though(the only company in Sweden(that I've found+trusts) that have got reasonable prices on new games.). Just looked it up a few days ago, and the release date said 2012!

Apart from that, I'm hoping for more weapons and armors in game, as long as it doesn't go agaist the lore. And it would be cool with dragons, just hoping they aren't making the beastraces less beastie.

(beastie??? Is that even a word? )

Posted by: Kiln Jan 8 2011, 10:36 AM

After reading about Skyrim I have to say that it sounds just as disappointing if not more than Oblivion was. They keep removing skills and moving further towards the mainstream and for me that is very heartbreaking, Morrowind was my first true video game love. I played it more than any other game that I've owned since and maybe more than any game I'll ever own again.

Posted by: Olen Jan 8 2011, 01:50 PM

I'm afraid I agree. No Classes, less skills (mysticism was one I actually used, OTOH enchant I never saw the point of). Keeping that dire quest leveling system which ruined oblivion, I much prefered morrowind's just having some dungeons/quests which were too hard to do at low levels. I suppose I will buy it because someone will patch it to make it halfway to fun and the story *might* be good, but honestly what I'm reading is failing to excite me.

Saying that Mammoths sound sort of cool as enemies and those trees look awesome. They look like they might have sorted out the faces too.

Posted by: Rane Jan 8 2011, 07:13 PM

Moved to fancy new subforum.

Posted by: mALX Jan 8 2011, 07:37 PM

WOO HOO !!! A Skyrim forum !!! Thanks Rane !!! Happy New Year !!!

Posted by: RagingMudcrab Jan 9 2011, 06:14 AM

Glad its finally here.

I'm also glad you good folks didn't ban me outright for posting my little article. Forgot about that hazy little legal issue.

Anyway, on with the Skyrim fun.

Posted by: bene Jan 11 2011, 04:23 AM

That's my fear. Oblivion was not a bad game, and Skyrim probably won't be either, but Oblivion was very different from Morrowind. It didn't meet my expectations of what an Elder Scrolls experience should be. Oblivion felt like a world away from Morrowind (and not just because of the horses and trees); I'm afraid Skyrim will feel like a solar system.

Posted by: Wrothken Champion Of Madness Jan 11 2011, 05:51 AM

Finally I can continue with the children of the famed nord bet you cant guess who.One thing I really hope for is that you actually fight the final boss if their is one.Cause seriously Martin could suck an egg sitting in his chair bleh .

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 11 2011, 05:58 AM

Bad news on the simplification front. It appears that the class system has been axed entirely. No more major and minor skills, instead every skill contributes to your level. The higher ones contribute more, so we can at least pretend specialization still exists.

Unless, however, they are going to have us "tag" skills like we do in Fallout. But still, more uniqueness, please, Beth! The Elder Scrolls is The Elder Scrolls, not Fallout.

However, they are changing the perk system to the Fallout style "one perk every level" instead of having perks awarded for every 25 ranks in a skill you advance. This I support, less grinding and this will also make it more meaningful to gain a level.

Posted by: RagingMudcrab Jan 11 2011, 08:59 AM

I highly doubt Skyrim will go the route of Fable 3, in that so much oversimplification makes it nearly unplayable due to lack of fun.

If it's more like Fallout 3/New Vegas, I'm okay with that. Some RPG purists would definitely argue that that game was a watered down RPG, but those same folks probably didn't like Oblivion. Or Morrowind for that matter.

Posted by: Olen Jan 11 2011, 03:40 PM

Morrowind was a proper RPG, choices mattered and you couldn't get 100% completion because there were mutually exclusive quests (even quest lines). It's leveling/class system was complex enough without being annoying and it had loads of background, mainly becuase it was text to read rather then spoken. I prefered it's slightly more hardcore travel arrangements too.

Oblivion lost a lot of this to simplification and really didn't know what it was meant to be, it was too watered down to be a pure RPG but lacked other aspects backing it up. It rarely mattered what you did becasue everything would continue the same anyway.

Fallout was more watered down but was a FPS hybrid really which made it ok, not much there for RPing (in my opinion) but entertaining nonetheless. The leveling system was totally different anyway with XP rather than skill increases.

Skyrim, well... I don't know enough, losing classes isn't good but I normally went for custom ones anyway. Losing skills is worse, as is not having major ones so essentially what you do at the start won't matter in the least if they all advance at the same rate and your level depends on them all. Introducing perks could work, or it could just turn it into a fallout clone.

Posted by: mALX Jan 12 2011, 06:31 PM

I have to agree with you on this - I had trouble RP'ing Fallout 3 too. The New Vegas has the hard-core mode to really immerse, I'm going to try it out my next game.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 12 2011, 10:08 PM

I turned it on right from the start.

Being one reasonably experienced with the mod FWE (Fallout 3 Wanderer's Edition), AND incorporating primary needs into Oblivion, I don't think I could stand how easy normal mode would be, nor would I be able to process not having to eat or drink.

I'm a total sucker when it comes to immersion, I know. I hope Skyrim will add a few things to the fold that Oblivion lacked (proper fishing, maybe? Ice Fishing?).

Posted by: mALX Jan 16 2011, 08:28 PM

I have reserved Skyrim for the PC and 360 - hope my PC will handle it. Oblivion had some mods that gave that "hard core" gameplay to it - helped tremendously with the roleplay. Fallout 3 did too, but my PC couldn't handle the game. (Bleah). I am really hoping this new game engine on Skyrim will be playable on my PC - hope!

Posted by: Kiln Jan 17 2011, 05:27 PM

The more I hear about Skyrim the more I feel that its been gutted. Maybe its just that I was spoiled with the depth that Morrowind had but Skyrim sounds like a pretty shallow game.

I'm sure some of you don't agree with me and I'm hoping that Bethesda proves me wrong but I've got a feeling its going to be more simplified that Oblivion.

Posted by: mALX Jan 17 2011, 06:22 PM

From what they have shown us so far, I have found no reason to get excited. I am holding off till I see the gameplay screenies in February's GameInformer - I hope it will drum up a little more excitement for me, the trailer didn't thrill me at all, nor did the poem or the shot of a man fighting a bear over the remains of a wooly mammoth.

That said, however - excited or not I have it on reserve for both my PC and 360 - I always buy Bethesda games in advance, and will continue till the day comes when I find one that disappoints. I really hope TESV will not be that game, and that the game will be much better than the trailer's impression gave.

Posted by: King Coin Jan 18 2011, 02:37 AM

I'm optimistic about the game. I don't think Bethesda is going to release a bad game or a disappointing game. The love the series as much as any fan and are only going to make something that they themselves will have fun playing. They made a lot of cash on Oblivion and Fallout 3 so they can afford to spend more on Skyrim.

Posted by: Helena Jan 18 2011, 01:59 PM

I have to agree with this. Not that I have much interest in the series any more since they pulverised Morrowind, but what I've seen and heard of Skyrim so far does nothing to change my mind. Let's see: fewer skills. Level-scaling. Yet another cut-and-paste "save the world from INSERT EVIL HERE" plot. Randomised missions (honestly, that in itself would be more than enough to put me off the game). Starting off in prison AGAIN. Working with the Blades AGAIN.

I wish they'd ditch all the stuff about rampaging dragons and demon invaders, and return to the 'low-fantasy' style of Daggerfall and Morrowind. (Okay, so Morrowind technically had a "save the world from EVIL" plot, but it was very slow-burn and the saving-the-world part didn't really kick in until right at the end.) A game set just after the Empire's collapse could have been really interesting, but instead they choose to ignore all the possibilities and just skip forward a couple of centuries. What's the betting that in 200 years, everything will be back to 'normal' and the events of previous games - not to mention the pointless destruction of Morrowind - will just be vague backstory?

Posted by: Captain Hammer Jan 18 2011, 06:33 PM

Ah, the Infernal City? I am praying to Julianos and Magnus that the book's canonicity has been scrapped and the whole blunder attributed to the influence of Sheogorath.

I am also upset with the further skill reduction, since it means fewer things for me to be awesome at, and what seems to be a decision to forego Oblivion's useful ability of being able to hold a shield, mace, and cast spells all at the same time. One significant improvement over Morrowind was the magic system, and the ability to shoot off spells without having to switch off was a big part of that.

Posted by: Helena Jan 19 2011, 01:08 AM

I'm just ignoring it altogether, personally.

I agree about the instant-casting in Oblivion. IMO that was one of the very few areas where Oblivion actually improved on Morrowind (and I played OB first, so that's not just nostalgia speaking). But yeah... I've read some of those "what should TESV be like?" threads on the official Bethesda forums. It's like the devs read them through carefully, and then decided to do the exact opposite.

Posted by: King Coin Jan 19 2011, 02:52 AM

There are so many contradicting threads on there that no matter what they do someone is going to be screaming.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 19 2011, 04:36 AM

No, they listen... maybe not to the right crowd, but they do listen.

It all seems to come down to the consoles nowadays when it comes to deciding what to put into a game, and it's no different with Skyrim it seems. What do console players want?

-sPl0s1ons!!1!11!!!11!eleventyone!
-Dragons
-Lotsa blood

Basically anything that prevents the game from being remotely interesting and unique just so they can massage that massive superiority complex that is contracted to all Xbox 360 fanboys (which though I have thankfully managed to avoid).

TES5 is still going to be so much better than most of the dreck that exists today (see Call of Duty, Activision's cash cow interactive motion picture... come on guys, just make the damn movie already), but it still saddens me that such a group who has absolutely no clue about what makes a great game is exercising so much influence over the developers. It's getting to the point where the lines between genres are becoming blurred. If this keeps up, I forsee a second Great Video Game Crash occuring because all the originality was stripped from the market, all in the desire to appeal to as many people as possible.

Really, you don't need to fix what ain't broke, and Morrowind sure wasn't broke. I don't understand why Bethesda is ignoring the fact that Morrowind is STILL selling copies even a decade after release and taking the frapping hint. We LIKE our TES games to be rich, expansive, and customizable; not hacky-slashy dungeon-divey five minutes of fun before the console goes off.

The way I see it, what they did to the levelling was completely unnecessary. All that was needed was to keep it as it was, develop an in-house GCD variant, and done! Instead we get even fewer skills, NO class system whatsoever, and a recycled Fallout perk system (although, I do tend to agree with this one).

If they do to the dragons what they did to the Oblivion Gates, I will chuck my 360 out my bedroom window.

I guess it's all we can hope for that their new "Radiant Story" doesn't end up another cop-out like the last time they tried "Radiant" technology.

OK, rant over.

Posted by: Helena Jan 19 2011, 02:10 PM

You're right, of course - but the general consensus was definitely in favour of more depth and complexity, not less. Certainly everyone and his dog hated Oblivion-style level scaling (see http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1104122-level-scaling-poll/, for example), so bringing that back seems frankly perverse.


This. I'm not one of the ultra-fanatical Morrowind fans who thinks everything about that game was absolutely perfect, but I honestly don't believe Oblivion would have sold one less copy if it had MW's depth and complexity. I still remember the massive hype around OB's original release: it was all focussed on the graphics and the (supposedly) advanced AI, not the 'streamlined' skill system or simplified gameplay. And the 'dumbing-down' approach can backfire on developers as well - ever hear of Deus Ex: Invisible War?


I wouldn't necessarily object to the lack of a formal class system, but I don't quite understand how that's going to work in terms of skill development. Will we still have 'favoured' skills that will start off at a higher level, and increase more quickly? Or will everyone start off with all skills at (say) level 5, and only raise them through gameplay?

Posted by: Olen Jan 19 2011, 03:32 PM

Ditching the class system is a bit like scoreing pickled tripe off the menu. Very few people ever had the prebuilt classes (I never have) and made their custom ones, but equally well it was nice to know that they were there.

I think (though can't remember the source) that there are still 'tagged skills' but that they don't increase any faster and that all skill increases contribute ot level. But then something else said level was capped to 50 (or at least would increase very slowly beyond it) so who knows. I do worry that the level system will have been even more simplifed though.

Quest leveling was bad, but quest randomisation? If done cleverly it could succedd in preventing you from running into quests early while exploring, but it could easily be even mroe of a nightmare than the leveling which is still hanging around like a bad smell.

Still I know I'll buy it one way or another, if only in the hope that they ight have put depth in for those who want it. Then I'll go back to playing Morrowind.

Posted by: King Coin Jan 20 2011, 12:44 AM

I do not remember the source (or if it was just a post somewhere in the forums, I really hope not ) but I do not think they are using Oblivion style scaling. I think they are aiming for more of a Fallout 3 style.

If I can find the source I'll edit it in.

Posted by: Helena Jan 20 2011, 03:57 PM

Ah, OK. I haven't played FO3, so I don't really know what the scaling is like in that game.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 20 2011, 11:07 PM

The scaling in Fallout is something of a mishmash between Morrowind and Oblivion. The monsters are all leveled (including dungeon encounters, whereas Morrowind only leveled monsters in the overworld), but the minimum levels are now floored (and a couple enemy types are capped) and their equipment sets are static. There is no leveled loot, either, the randomly generated loot is just taken from a catch-all list befitting of the dungeon type (similar to Morrowind's random loot), and most of the big finds are static.

Posted by: King Coin Jan 21 2011, 03:18 AM

Well the raiders in the game never got more difficult. You might have had problems with them at low levels but at high levels they where hamburger before your might! At low levels there were areas that had enemies called "deathclaws" and they were death no matter what level you are IF they get close. which at low levels they did often if you ran into them. They became more common at higher levels but they did not replace other monsters.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 21 2011, 03:38 AM

Quick clarification, King Coin is right. NPCs in Fallout 3 were static, as well (in level and equipment sets).

As for not encountering certain enemies in certain areas, Oblivion did this, too through the use of encounter "sets" (for lack of better term). You had an animal set, an undead set, a bandit set, etc, and every set had their level and loot lists scaled to the player. In Fallout, the "set" usage remains largely unaltered, in that it still determines which actors will spawn where, (ghoul set, wasteland monster set, raider set, insect set, etc.) and all the creature sets (and yes, that includes the robots) are level-matched.

The major between the two are these:
-Static NPCs
-The loot lists are no longer scaled

That you can see Deathclaws at Level 1 in the game is simply because it makes more use of static spawns (which Oblivion had almost none).

Posted by: King Coin Jan 21 2011, 03:43 AM

I was not arguing with what you said, I was describing encounters in Fallout 3 to Helena.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 21 2011, 03:45 AM

And I wasn't trying to argue back, I was just clarifying.

I've re-formatted the post to make it a bit less argumentative.

Posted by: Kiln Jan 21 2011, 03:46 AM

I gotta be honest here I hope I'm amazed by this game but my hopes aren't set too high. I set my hopes pretty high for Oblivion and I was let down so I'm hoping that by not having much interest I can avoid disappointment if the game is extremely simple.

Posted by: Olen Jan 21 2011, 09:38 PM

Simple gameplay mechanics (and the evidence does rather point that way) wouldn't be so bad if they make the game rich and full of clever and good quests. I found Oblivion, and to an extent Morrowind, could get a bit samey. Go there, get this, kill that, rinse, repeat. While the occasional quest really shone for imagination (the silent pilgrimidge in morrowind, sheogorath's quest in Ob). More of them and lots of juicy lore would make it a good game even if they wreak the level system.

There's no reason, barring lazyness and/or incompetance, that it shouldn't be lore rich and clever. Beth took a pounding over Oblivion and SI was better, they might well have learnt their lesson. If a complex level system turns poepple off a game then it's a pity but they do have to sell the thing.

Saying that I do really hope that there are required skill levels for advancing in guilds (or at least quests which are genuinly too hard to do without the higher skills). Head of the fighters guild at level 8 always seemed silly to me.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 22 2011, 01:09 AM

Wise man once said "Better to set your hopes low and be pleasantly surprised than to set them high and be let down."

That is why I am trying to look at things from a pessimistic view for this game, I don't want to go the same route as many did when Oblivion was released.

Posted by: mALX Jan 22 2011, 01:41 AM

Have to agree with you on this. It was too easy to advance, the quests could be completed in minutes by low level players - and I do want quests that entail some thought, surprises, intrigue. I thought Oblivion had some excellent quests in it - but it had many (duh) quests too.

I liked all the hidden things in both the Elder Scrolls series and Fallout 3 (that were conspicuously absent in Fallout: New Vegas). That is one of the things I have always loved about Bethesda games is the little easter eggs they hide around to intrigue the player.

In Elder Scrolls I love the Lore and think it makes the game what it is in so many depths - like you said though, I have a fear they are going to try and reinvent the Lore (to match the books they put out last year maybe?)

The books they put out last year did not seem to gel at all with Lore, and that was an offense to me as they supposedly occurred just 50 years after the Oblivion crisis - and this story is supposed to take place 200 years after it. If they are throwing out the Lore, then it will no longer be Elder Scrolls-worthy, just a game put out by the same developers.

The AI does sound better with this new game engine, but I am nervous that (the new game engine) will be problematic. I have the worst feeling it is the same engine that Feargus (and crew) were building right at the time Interplay pulled the rug out from under Black Isles. The coincidence that Bethesda just worked with Feargus (and crew) on Fallout: New Vegas and suddenly popped up with a "Hand built by the developers and others" game engine - my fear is that it is the same engine.

That thought does make me nervous, especially in light of the wreck Obsidion made of Fallout: New Vegas, the DLC, and the Patches - all overloaded with game ending glitches.

Like you, I hope for the best and have my fingers and toes crossed that my five year wait for TESV was worth it - but have a certain amount of skepticism about it. From what we've been given to go on so far, I haven't found excitement building in me yet. Dragons that either we ride or they attack - it's played. Killing and eating Wooly Mammoth's or riding them - whatever. I never had that as any criteria for a game that I desired to play yet. So I hope in the next months they can come up with something a lot better to entice me than they have so far.

That said, I have pre-ordered the game for both the 360 and PC, so if I do get disappointed - it will be doubly so.

Posted by: Jacki Dice Jan 22 2011, 03:15 AM

Well, I cried during the trailer (still do each time I see it) and cried while reserving it.... So I guess you could say I'm excited

I played Fallout 3 a little bit, not enough to judge whether it was good or bad, but I liked how it was. So the skill point thing I guess I'll just have to wait and see how they work out.

The only thing I dislike is the fact that you have to fight giant spiders I'm really arachnophobic so...

Posted by: mALX Jan 22 2011, 04:53 AM

GAAAAH!!!! You mean bigger than the Daedric spiders with women's heads? GAAAAH !!!!!

Posted by: Captain Hammer Jan 22 2011, 05:30 AM

I'd say it was women's heads and torsos. Let's face it, in addition to various other changes since Morrowind, Oblivion made the upper body differences between males and females far more discernable.

Posted by: Jacki Dice Jan 22 2011, 05:57 AM

Yes I could tolerate the spider daedra by focusing on their face and torsos... but these... they're huge and hairy and so gross They're completely realistic looking -gag- They've even got the nasty spider mouths and eyes!!

Posted by: mALX Jan 22 2011, 07:40 AM

GAAAAH!!! OMG, I will be like Cleo and the Zombie playing if spiders are going to attack me!

(Who is Cleo and the Zombie?) Watch this vid:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOYbfsvDDbM


*

Posted by: Jacki Dice Jan 22 2011, 08:25 AM

Lol!! I'm just going to have Wrothken fight them off for me I'll read a book or something. I just hope they don't make noises That would be even worse

Posted by: mALX Jan 22 2011, 08:39 AM

Like a hissing noise, or maybe their eight feet will make a squishy noise when they step like Squidworthy on SpongeBob. GAAAAH! I can't stand spiders, the bigger they are the more I freak out. What if all you carry is a dagger? Oh, or if they burst out with hundreds of babies that chase you like the Daedric ones do sometimes - GAAAAH !!!

Posted by: Ahrenil Jan 22 2011, 10:03 PM

I'm looking forward to this, the use of the shouts could prove to be extremely interesting in ways to mix up the combat and even non-combat sections. Though I think using shouting as a persausion skill should be implemented anyway. "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T WANT TO TELL ME? I AM WEARING A FULL SUIT OF THE ARMOUR OF HELL AND WAVING A CLAYMORE IN YOUR FACE!"...Ahem...anyway.

The loss of classes saddens me a little, I know a lot of people make their own, me included, but it was always fun to play through in the style and manner of a set class. Playing Morrowind as a monk and imagining my character slowly loosing his faith as he slowly realised his destiny was awesome!

Finally i'd like to see the skills get a little bit of a revamp in how they're earnt. Getting 4 different types of power attack really annoyed me in Oblivion. I'd rather get unique skills to use in combat, and I think it'd be more awesome if you got some based on multiple skills. For example, 50 and 50 in blocking and axes would get you a shield breaker attack, your skills with both items teach you how to try and hook the enemies shield and tear it away, perhaps even a greater chance of success based on your strength! 100/100 in shortblade and sneak lets you perform a silent throat cut on enemies if you're close range and they don't have a decent armor rating....

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 22 2011, 10:10 PM

Perhaps Vyper could be convinced to create a No Spider mod for Syrim, like http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36737 he made for Oblivion?

I will probably do it myself, but I doubt I will get Skyrim right away. I'd rather wait for the GOTY edition a year later, and get it all patched and with its addons.

Posted by: Jacki Dice Jan 23 2011, 06:19 AM

Ewww!!! That is my worst fear- spiders making noise Or bursting! Bleh!!




That would be amazing...but my computer is a POS and wouldn't be able to handle Skyrim

Posted by: mALX Jan 23 2011, 11:29 AM

I know it will be hard for anyone that (quasi) knows me to believe - but it took me almost FIVE minutes to figure out what that meant, ROFL !!! (and I have a POS PC myself, ROFL !!

Posted by: King Coin Jan 24 2011, 12:30 AM

I get chills when I watch the trailer. No tears though lol.

I hate spiders too, but I hope to roast those them with a flamethrower spell while yelling "BUUUURRRN!" (continuous fire spells are going to be included)

Posted by: mALX Jan 25 2011, 11:08 PM

WOO HOO !!! Now instead of burning my allies in quick bursts I can torch the living crap out of them with my bad aim !!! WOO HOO !!!

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 26 2011, 12:27 AM

Just make sure you don't start a forest fire in the process, or torch one of the Nord villages, or somehow set fire to the snow (which I'm sure our kitty is capable of). I know of your devious ways.

EDIT: It seems by some amazing quirk of fate, every new page save #2 starts with a post made by me. Whodathunkit?

Posted by: Kiln Jan 26 2011, 12:49 AM

I call conspiracy.

Posted by: mALX Jan 29 2011, 07:08 AM

ROFL!!! If Bethesda makes it burnable, I will come, lol.

That is one thing I liked about Fallout 3 - haven't been able to recreate it in New Vegas yet - blowing up cars.

Picture this: A group of raiders up on a highway bridge camped, using cars as barracades - or the car barracade going into The Pitt - You don't shoot at them because you are at a low level and there are so many of them ... but you can use a silenced 22 and shoot at any car far enough from you not to blow yourself up. A chain reaction begins and the fireworks is on as the cars blow up with satisfying BOOOM !!!! sounds and engulfing the area in fire for quite a few days.

It was one of the HUGE things I loved about Fallout 3, crossing the bridge behind Liberty Prime ... AWESOME !!!!!!


I have shot myself to death in New Vegas trying to blow up a vehicle and not been able to get a single one to blow. Anyone else have any better luck than me there?

Posted by: RagingMudcrab Jan 29 2011, 07:44 AM

I was trying it last night actually. A group of Deathclaws were hanging out next to a truck. No way I could take them all out before I got my innards ripped from my body. But hey, I had a crummy SMG with tons of bullets to spare! Only problem, THE TRUCK WOULDN'T EXPLODE!!! I don't know what gives but New Vegas doesn't really have nukable cars. Or at least they're harder to blow that FO3's. Maybe it was intentional though. I mean, it was kinda annoying how easy and often it was for cars to explode on you. Useful against an enemy, horrible when it happens to you.

Posted by: mALX Jan 29 2011, 08:27 AM

I loved it once I realized what was happening - got real good at sneaking and never went anywhere without that silenced 22 to blow a clean path through a bad area. When the Enclave was released and was swarming DC proper I got blown up a few times by their helicopters zooming in from above and shooting those piles of cars that bordered the burroughs.

Posted by: grif11 Feb 5 2011, 09:22 PM

So far, these are my favourite things:
new map
bigger cities
dueling in the streets
cooking, mining, forging and farming
dragon shouts
dual wielding!
better weather physics
better graphics
children
NPC's are more realistic
and more!!!

Posted by: King Coin Feb 6 2011, 02:43 AM

I remember there was a drive in movie theater in FO3 that had raiders in it. there were cars all over the place. I threw 1 grenade and the whole place went up! Body parts were flying everywhere!

And I remember plenty of times where I heard the first little explosion from a nearby car sending me into a panic!

Posted by: mALX Feb 6 2011, 03:45 AM

I know which one you are talking about - (movie theatre) - it was up on a hill with a cement wall type around it - I did the same thing - AWESOME !!! Then realized Dogmeat was caught in the ruckus and had to reload a previous save, lol.

Posted by: Ahrenil Feb 12 2011, 07:21 AM

Just felt like throwing this in here, pardon me if i'm a bit late with this but PCGamer has some screens from the game!
I immediately Harry Partridged.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/11/first-screens-of-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/

Now a few things to note here, the Nordic Zombie Skeletons. Could we be seeing the return of the Draugr?
Similarily there was a little shocker for me when on the skill page I noticed "Enchanting" at the side, along with what seems to be Smithing. I knew crafting was coming in but whole new skills?
Considering, if I remember correctly, there are only going to be 18 skill variants in the game it makes me panic a little about what has been cut, we saw the idiocy of classing axes as "blunt" weapons on Oblivion. Are we now just going to have a "Melee" skill?
Finally.

Is that a giant I see?

Posted by: King Coin Feb 12 2011, 07:37 AM

Weapons are now classified as "One Hand," "Two Hand," and "Marksman."

Posted by: Ahrenil Feb 12 2011, 07:42 AM

Ah yes, I remember now, and they're using the perks to further stratify them.

It's pretty much the same as Oblivion actually, well more diverse now I think about it. All the weapons there seemed to do the same thing, just with different textures.

Posted by: TheOtherRick Feb 12 2011, 04:02 PM

I missed Enchant when they removed it for Oblivion and went to the system of having to go to an altar. 'Smithing' is likely just a renaming of 'Armorer'.

I had hoped that they would move back to the Morrowind skillset, not further away from it. One of the things that bothered me about Oblivion was that they took Axe, Spear, Enchant, Medium Armor, etc. and either removed or simplified them. I got over it though, as I am sure I'll get over it again in Skyrim...

Posted by: mALX Feb 12 2011, 04:14 PM

The facegen looks like an improvement over Oblivion on the barmaid NPC.

My question is this: Since there seems to be a combination of previous TES games being brought into Skyrim (cliffracers = dragons; armor that is a throwback to the older games; that cyclops looking beast from Daggerfall, etc. ) -

WILL THEY BE OPENING THE BORDERS ???????

Posted by: King Coin Feb 12 2011, 04:55 PM

I can answer that. No.

Posted by: mALX Feb 12 2011, 05:36 PM

Bleah.

Posted by: ureniashtram Feb 12 2011, 06:25 PM

You could dream a hopeless dream. though, right? I mean, for all we know they might be planning to create a DLC that could take you into Cyrodiil.

Like, I don't know.. Retrieve the Champion's Relics (Your items in OB can be 'transported' into Skyrim by loading a Save in OB) in the ruins of Cloudruler Temple..
Come to think of it, that might just be a good idea!
...
...
-------------------------

Anyway, I like what I see when I looked up at Skyrim's new interface and graphics. It literally guarantees that we'll have tremendous fun playing this beast.

Or NOT! Who knows.

Posted by: mALX Feb 12 2011, 06:56 PM

That is an AWESOME IDEA !!!!!!!

That new journal page printed over the screen - I see people like me who are blind [censored] bats having trouble reading spell lists on a screen like that.

Posted by: TheOtherRick Feb 13 2011, 12:29 AM

TES has a large enough fan base that would guarantee a lot of $$$ spent on that type of DLC. I think it's a fantastic idea also!

Posted by: King Coin Feb 13 2011, 02:26 AM

Sounds like a good mod.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Feb 14 2011, 06:24 AM

Let's talk weapons.

I'm seeing increased speculation on the official Skyrim board that melee weapon skills are being changed from "Blade, Blunt" to "One hand, Two hand." I must say that this is probably one of the stupidest ideas I've ever seen, and will be surely angered if this is actually true.

Does anyone at Bethesda have any idea that wielding a sword is world apart from wielding a hafted weapon? Swords are designed for precision, whereas the hafted (axes, maces, etc) are more akin to brute-force application. This is what makes a knight different from a barbarian. Further combining of the weapon skills as this "One Hand, Two Hand" tosh is an affront to fantasy RPGs in general. I don't want a master-of-all-trades character, I want him to have actual skills and weaknesses! If he can wield a short blade and a war axe with equal skill simply because they require one hand to use... where the hell is the logic to that?! It's like saying that my mastery of the art of watching movies also gives me the skills needed to make one. That is not true at all!

Why can't Bethesda get it through their heads... too much streamlining is BAD. Oblivion is a case-in-point example of this, they removed or "streamlined" too much and resulted in a game that felt watered down. Here's how I would streamline the weapon skills:

-Short Blade
-Long Blade
-Hafted, One Hand
-Hafted, Two Hand

Four skills that make logical sense and add a sense of variety to the creation of your character. This way, axes and spears would at least fit into the streamlined skills, since they are in fact hafted weapons. Morrowind did have a little too much in terms of weapon skills available to you, but Bethesda went way too far with trimming those down in Oblivion, which only had two melee weapon skills, one of which making no sense at all, and removing spears entirely.

By the way, BethSoft... if you are going to improve on mounted combat in Skyrim, BRING THE DAMN SPEARS BACK!!! The main purpose of long-hafted spears and pikes in the medieval battlefield was to defend against a cavalry charge. If we are expected to fight horses without the aid of one of those quintessential medieval weapons, that is going to be a flat-out immersion killer for me. No one in their right mind would try to take down a charging horse-and-rider with a puny long blade... they'd get trampled before they even landed a blow.

I do approve of their changes to Archery, though, so not everything is bad.

Posted by: King Coin Feb 14 2011, 03:55 PM

This is solved with the perk system. If you prefer maces then you will choose perks that improve your ability with the mace. Same with blades. You first choose if you want to work with large or small weapons then specialize more when you choose your perk each time you level up.

Posted by: mALX Feb 14 2011, 05:06 PM

The only problem I see with this is that some of the longswords are still one handed, but ones like claymores are two handed. They could divide the blades into one/two handed and then subdivide one-handed into short/long.

I have to agree with you on the over-use of streamlining killing immersion. Oblivion worked for me because it was the first game of that kind I ever played. I don't want the weaponry to be ridiculously complicated, but in the same respect do not want it to be any more generic than Oblivion's system.

Another thing I wholeheartedly agree with you on is that in no way shape or form should axes and blunt weapons be a part of blades. And agree on the impression in my own mind of swords being an artform where axes are a brutish weapon.

Posted by: mALX Feb 14 2011, 05:25 PM

I really enjoy perks in the Fallout series, but are they fitting in TES? Having to go to trainers to better your skills as you did in Oblivion - that was realistic - cleaning out a couple dungeons and selling the items to earn the Septims to pay for training - it all fit perfectly. Experts training you for a fee makes sense in that setting, that era.

Perks may be great to have, but I don't see how that will be immersive in the TES universe. How do you explain sudden abilities that just appear after sleeping - I think they are trying to take what worked in Fallout and bring it into TES, and IMO that will ruin immersion.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Feb 14 2011, 08:45 PM

The problem with this is that we need to keep in mind that this is a game, and Morrowind already made the mistake of having too many weapon skills (as opposed to Oblivion where they went the complete opposite and had too few). I've actually removed Bethesda's condensed "Blade" skill entirely and separated it back to what it was in Morrowind. I don't think it would be worth the trouble to go further than that, as you would then be limiting weapon selection too much to make the skill practical to the player.

See, although axes are assuredly not blunt weapons, there just isn't enough axe weapons available in the game to compete with someone who is proficient in long blades. Lumping them in with Blunt Weapons, then dividing the skill in two and renaming the skill(s) "Hafted" fixes everything, because it now makes sense that axes would be included in that skill. To put it bluntly (ar ar ar) an axe isn't much more than a mace with a sharp edge, it was designed to cut AND crush (as opposed to the mace, which only crushed), but not in the same way as swords. Axes are designed to be heavy so to be able to cut through bone or heavy plate armor easier than a blade could, thus requiring less precision to wield, yet more muscle.

You know, if attributes still existed in this game I think I'd actually campaign to move Blade from being Strength-based to Endurance-based, because you do NOT need to be strong to effectively wield a sword. The power in the blade is built on technique... whereas the power in the haft is built on your biceps. See how those four skills make logical sense? Two worlds set apart as they should be, yet not overly limiting on the player's selection of weapons.

Posted by: King Coin Feb 14 2011, 09:01 PM

Well the same thing applies to leveling up in Oblivion. why are you suddenly stronger just after sleeping? why are you more intelligent just for sleeping? I do not think it will be any more or less immersive.

Posted by: TheOtherRick Feb 14 2011, 09:34 PM

I couldn't argee more! One of the things I disliked about Oblivion when I first started playing it (after years of Morrowind) was the way it had been "dumbed-down". I am sure that console gaming compatibility had a lot to do with it. I suspect that the "streamlining" of the weapons skills for Skyrim might be of the same ilk. There are way more keys on a PC keyboard than there are buttons on an X-Box controller, but the gaming console seems to have become the platform of preference today. Therefore, those of us that still cling to the PC for gaming will be the ones to suffer.

Posted by: mALX Feb 14 2011, 10:04 PM

I agree with this, but I still do believe the axe belongs classified in with the blunt weapons and that blades should have their own seperate category that covers daggers, swords, longswords, and claymores (like it does in Oblivion - I don't see why two handed swords would need to be itemized seperately at all, or short and longswords itemized seperately (I am referring to skill levels here) IMO.

What I was saying in my comment before was regarding the example posted in the comment before it:

-Short Blade
-Long Blade
-Hafted, One Hand
-Hafted, Two Hand


I don't see why short and long blades would be a seperate skill category at all - however - someone who is skilled in handling a one-handed longsword may not be good at all with a claymore.

I don't like the idea of axes being classified with blades at all, just because they have a sharpened end. That's what I was trying to say - and I can't imagine why long and short swords would need to be a different skill category - but if you must divide, I think it should look more like this:


Skill Categories:

Blades - dagger, shortsword, longsword
Blades, two handed - claymores and other two handed longswords

Blunt - axe, mace, hammer, etc.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Feb 14 2011, 10:11 PM

You misunderstood my comment. I said to lump axes in with Blunt weapons and rename the skill hafted, while at the same time separating it into one-handed and two-handed components. I said nothing about tossing axes in with blades. I was merely commenting on the origins of the axe, which was simply an attempt to combine the cutting power of a blade with the crushing power of a club.

Now, personally, I have no problem with dividing Blade up into its four actual weapons (daggers, short blades, long blades, claymores), I'm simply saying from a gameplay perspective, this is a bit too limiting on the arsenal available to the player. We need to keep in mind that full-on realistic SCA combat is not the focus of this game (no matter how much I would like to see it) and that separating the Blade skill to that degree would only allow the player to be proficient in about 9-10 weapons, depending on how many variants Beth decides to create. This is why daggers and short blades were one skill in Morrowind, and Longswords and claymores as well. Keeping a decent balance of weapons available to the player to use allows the game to add more variety and spice to the experience. Separate the skills too much, and you stagnate the gameplay by making almost 80% of the weapons the player finds not worth as much because he isn't proficient in them. It's exciting to find a cool new blade that your character can use with fluency... we don't want to make that feeling once in a blue moon, else people would get bored and play less.

Essentially the skill division there IS Blade, One Hand and Blade, Two Hand. There are always going to be difficulties in getting everything condensed to the point where it makes sense but is still fun to work with. Longswords and Axes in this case are the oddballs, so there is always going to be a question as to where they are supposed to go to avoid having too many weapon skills, which will in turn lessen the impact of your character's power gains.

Remember, we play for fun, not to simulate real SCA combat. Compromises need to be made. I am simply proposing what I feel is the most reasonable solution to avoid the problem Morrowind had with too many weapon skills and the one Oblivion had with too few.

Posted by: mALX Feb 14 2011, 11:03 PM

I probably did misread that then. But somewhere (not in your comment) I thought I saw that in Skyrim the axe was going to be classified in with blades - and to me that made no sense (for exactly the reasons you posted).

I found Oblivion's divisions easy to work with for me, I really don't want the skill categories to be so complicated that it becomes a chore to follow - and as you pointed out, get a great weapon and not have the skill needed to exploit it to the fullest.

If I am not mistaken, the interview said there would be some changes made from the Oblivion skill category basis - but there would only be eighteen skill categories - so what changes will be made? Does anyone know yet? I did a lot of my "checking into the interview" while at work, so my attention was ... divided, lol. (as it is today as well, lol).

Posted by: mALX Feb 14 2011, 11:13 PM

In Oblivion you gained levels by practicing your key skills - so some of the attributes you choose to raise on a level-up are things that would have naturally grown with that practice - (like endurance, strength, intelligence, etc.) - when you practice anything it could enhance any of these (excpet possibly luck).

The perks you are offered (in the Fallout games) were based on the choices you made in placing blank points onto a skill category - no practicing of the skills needed to advance in them - that is what I am referring to when I say it will be less immersive.

Posted by: King Coin Feb 14 2011, 11:23 PM

BUT in Skyrim they are not the same as Fallout. Todd Howard said that you would need to have certain skills to unlock certain perks. If you used the mace a lot and like using it then you would choose perks that helped you use the mace. Perks for swords and bows would not be available except maybe some very basic low level ones. UNLESS you started using them a lot and built up your skill in them.

Posted by: mALX Feb 15 2011, 12:17 AM

That is exactly how Fallout is, you do have to have your skills at a certain level to unlock perks affiliated with that skill - but you just place blank skill points onto that skill during your level-up to increase your skill, no amount of practice counts.

Did Todd Howard say you would have to practice your skills to enhance them? I'd like to see that interview - if they are still giving credit for practicing the skills then I withdraw my gripe.

One thing I didn't like about Fallout: New Vegas was that they only rewarded you with perks every other level-up - BUT :

That said, one thing I thought was great about Vegas and I thought an improvement over Fallout 3 = they give you bonus perks for practicing a skill. (only certain ones though). That gives you a reason to practice that was taken away in Fallout 3.

If Skyrim keeps the rewards in for practicing skills then I will be perfectly satisfied. (with that aspect).

Posted by: ureniashtram Feb 15 2011, 12:21 AM

Ｉ　ｈｏｐｅ they make different attack-animations for different weapons. I was mildly disappointed in Onlivion by that. I mean seriously.. The Master-version of charging attack with maces didn't made any sense at all.

THRUSTING with a mace and axe simply ruined my world-perception. Really.

Posted by: mALX Feb 15 2011, 12:30 AM

The animations for swords in Oblivion was okay, but I saw some mods that improved a lot on it. In Fallout: New Vegas the animations for melee are ridiculous, really bad.

Posted by: King Coin Feb 15 2011, 12:47 AM

He talked about a lot of that stuff in here:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/podcasts/archive/2011/02/03/toddhowardse.aspx

It's only audio and there isn't a transcript that I can see immediately.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Feb 15 2011, 12:48 AM

They need better animations in general. Gamebryo's animation system was utter garbage.

Posted by: mALX Feb 15 2011, 01:56 AM

Thank you King Coin, that was a great podcast. If I am understanding it correctly, practicing our skills will open up perks, not just placing blank points down during level-ups like in Fallout - so I withdraw my concern, lol. Thank you !!

Posted by: King Coin Feb 15 2011, 02:38 AM

Yep, I was doing a poor job explaining anyways, I should have just put up the link and saved everyone some time.

Posted by: mALX Feb 15 2011, 04:37 AM

Lol, Todd Howard is trying to keep some of it under wraps till it is unveiled - I have the Game Informer magazine, saw their internet articles - listened to the podcast - still didn't have a lot of the answers - like he was very mysterious about the horses in Skyrim - he said we will be able to ride SOMETHING - and horses will be there but not necessarily to ride - What, will we be riding wooly mammoths? GAAAAH !!!

Posted by: King Coin Feb 15 2011, 08:02 PM

I'm glad he says he wants them to be useful in the game. If they are aiming for RDR quality then they will be almost a necessity.

Posted by: mALX Feb 15 2011, 08:14 PM

I hope we will be able to ride them, I don't care if we are up in the snowy mountains - riding wooly mammoths will not enhance gameplay for me.

Posted by: King Coin Feb 15 2011, 08:20 PM

Yeah, if they are the only mount (mammoths) I'll be walking lol

Posted by: mALX Feb 15 2011, 08:33 PM

Posted by: King Coin Feb 15 2011, 08:40 PM

I can just see that lol. She's cursing under her breath as she treks over a mountain.

Posted by: mALX Feb 18 2011, 06:36 AM

"What is that sound? Is that Dragon Language?"

"No, it is that albino Khajiit over there cursing..."

Posted by: Goblin Gaylord Mar 8 2011, 10:58 PM

I watch the trailers almost everyday, I don't know what its going to be like to play it haha I'm obsessed but in a good way..

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Mar 16 2011, 12:29 AM

This just in, BGSF has received a skin update.

Go check it out if you feel so inclined

Posted by: Ola Martin Apr 7 2011, 12:04 AM

I remember joining this comunity when we were still waiting for oblivion.
And now we're waiting for Skyrim.

I recently finished (mainquest+guilds+most sidequests+expantions) Morrowind and Oblivion for the first time.
So now november seems like too long a wait for a new Elder Scrolls.

Generally I do not like simplifications to a games character development system. The concept of gaining skillpoints to the skills you use instead of having to choose on each level I do like, it is also how I last played Morrowind and Oblivion with mods. Also perks could be nice.

I feel positive towards Skyrim, mostly because Bethesda has yet to disappoint me.