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Posted by: Thomas Kaira Aug 17 2011, 01:03 AM

http://www.gamepur.com/news/4944-pete-hines-unveils-new-skyrim-details-twitter.html

So there you have it, Skyrim has fallen to the rebounding health cliche. Not too many details yet, but if it allows for full and complete health regen, this is SERIOUSLY not good.

I cannot stress this further, there is no better way to describe dumbing a game down than auto-regenerating health. If they want to avoid being called out on this, and if Bethesda wants to avoid absolutely destroying Restoration magic's prime use they need to place some SERIOUS limitations on the system. Some examples:

- Health does not regenerate while in combat.
- It must be a VERY slow effect, on the magnitude of about one HP every 15 to 30 seconds, real time.
- If your health falls below a critical level (due to the presence of supplemental healing spells in this game, I'll say 25% to 50%), NO REGEN AT ALL. PERIOD.

Fine and dandy for regen to be able to simulate minor wounds going away over time, because that's what the living body is designed to do, but major wounds? Uh uh. You need supplemental healing for those, you cannot "wait out" a broken bone (unset bones heal wrong and can completely disable the use of the limb), or a sword slash wound that is now copiously bleeding (try and wait this one out, you WILL die).

Also, it's the thought that counts here, as well. I am getting sick and tired of rebounding health bars being in EVERY SINGLE [censored] GAME.

I really do hope Bethesda thought this one through. If they didn't, there is going to be serious backlash.

Posted by: King Coin Aug 17 2011, 03:39 AM

Doesn't bother me, I've already got a small trickle of health regen modded in Oblivion.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Aug 17 2011, 04:28 AM

So long as it is a very, very tiny trickle, I'd go with it.

Allowing for health to regenerate on its own without player intervention (all previous TES titles including Oblivion required player intervention for healing) adds to the challenge of the game. This kept it entirely up to the player when he was going to heal himself. You had to think about your health at all times, which keeps the game challenging and the player on edge about that next encounter.

The moment the player no longer has to worry about his health, you've removed all challenge from the game whatsoever. That is the danger of health regeneration in a game that is not going to be nearly as fast-paced as a shooter. If Bethesda is too generous with the regeneration, then the game will be utterly ruined, not only because you no longer have to keep your character in check through that dungeon crawl, but also due to it breaking a major magical skill. How many people would use Restoration if you had no need to use the healing spells?

Games are meant to be challenging. I absolutely despise it when developers take such blatant measures to make the game easier. You have to keep automation to a minimum in games, because of the simple fact that they are interactive. If you want brainless entertainment, the movie industry already has you covered.

The worst thing about this, though, as that it is a kick in the face for the more hardcore roleplayers out there.

Posted by: Black Hand Aug 17 2011, 04:46 AM

Hides CE ring of health regen in MW.

Than again, its a challenge getting anything CE.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Aug 17 2011, 04:54 AM

Well, that way, at least you have to work towards regenerating health. This is not something that should just be given to you.

(Sorry, I know I'm posting a lot about this)

Posted by: Destri Melarg Aug 17 2011, 07:53 AM

To tell the truth, this just sounds like a good excuse to create a Nord from the Half-Troll clan.

Here’s what I saw further down in the QA:

Now I may be wrong but that seems to indicate that at least two of your conditions on the regen system have been met. You still need health potions, and you still have to worry about dying in battle because health regenerates slowly enough (or maybe not at all) that it is of no help to you during combat.

I have been playing Oblivion now for the better part of four years. I played Morrowind for three years before that. In seven years of Elder Scrolls gaming I have been killed by regular in-game combat maybe ten times (and I say maybe because ten sounds a bit high to me). At least eight of those times came in Morrowind. The Elder Scrolls games have never been about the challenge of combat. To tell the truth, the battle systems in the games tend to suck.

I can understand where you are coming from with the over-saturation of rebounding health bars in games these days. I just don’t think that the majority of us pick up an Elder Scrolls game because we want a challenging battle experience. We have Demon’s Souls and the first Ninja Gaiden if we are looking to get emasculated by the AI. Speaking for myself, I go to Tamriel because of the rich history and lore. I like the diverse races, each with a complete history and culture with which I can identify. I stay for the memorable characters that I have befriended along the way. I soak up the atmosphere present in forgotten caves, shipwrecks, and the ruins of long dead races like the Dwemer or the Ayleids. Can you honestly say yourself that you enjoy the Elder Scrolls because of the challenge presented through combat? To me all the other things you get from an Elder Scrolls game are worth suffering through the combat.

And I should also point out that you can literally SHOUT lightning down from the heavens in this game. You can fight giants and dragons, and you can throw spontaneously generated fireballs at your enemies. But you’re worried that the regenerating health bar lacks realism?


EDIT:
A thought just occurred to me that explains our differing points of view. You play the games on the PC. You have seen what is possible through the extraordinary efforts of the modding community. My only experience of the games comes via the console. You are privy to the knowledge of what the games should be. I am relegated to finding enjoyment of the games as they are.

Keep pushing for the improvements you want in the games, TK. And, out of jealousy, I’ll occasionally swing by and bust your b@ll$ for it.

Posted by: haute ecole rider Aug 17 2011, 03:40 PM

I'm with Destri on this. There are plenty of challenging games out there that meet my occasional desire for some slash-n-smash (or spraying some high-power ammo when applicable) without thinking things through.

But combat is not the reason I love Oblivion and keep coming back to it. Yes, I like my combat to be realistic in terms of what my PC can do and the amount of damage s/he can deliver and take. And I also like it to be simple - no trying out weird combinations of buttons to get fancy moves that are just as likely to impale my PC on an ally's sword as impaling the enemy on my own.

No, I love Oblivion because of the options it gave me, even on the console, to explore the whole world (within its borders, of course). When I first fired it up and escaped the sewer (back when I was playing it on the XBox), the one thing that blew me away was the immersive quality of the environment. When I heard the wind blowing, the trees moved. Sunrises and sunsets were convincingly real - the change in light was hardly detectable. And most of all, I was not limited in where I could go in that beautiful environment. There were no boundaries within all of Cyrodiil - I could go to the left or the right, jump over rocks, even climb them. I could go mountain-climbing if I wanted to. I could even swim entirely underwater. And all of this on the console? Amazing! Up to that point, the most immersive game I had ever played was the Rainbow Six series, and even that had places I couldn't go. And the interactions with the NPC's were the best I had ever encountered.

Those are the reasons I still enjoy Oblivion tremendously. And now I'm exploring role-playing as I've never done before - without regard to the available quests. This time, my character is dictating the story, not the questline. And it's a very different way of playing that I'm not used to. Finding purpose in the game that has nothing to do with the Main Quest or even any of the quests is really challenging my story-telling abilities. Granted, I'm doing this on the PC, which gives you more freedom (not to mention the mods that add more detail - I totally loved exploring Bravil!).

Health regeneration? Okay if it's slow and good only for minor hits. But major injuries ought to remain - well - major. Otherwise where is the drama that comes from encountering enemies bigger and stronger than yourself? I guess I'm echoing TK here.

At this point I'm not holding my breath with Skyrim. I'll wait and see what the general consensus is. I may even wait until the price drops on it (say,during the run-up to ESVI, if there is ever one more).

As a student of business, I can't say that I blame Bethesda for taking the route it's going. This is a very competitive industry, and trends change faster than it takes to get a game through the pipeline. So Beth noticed quite a few years ago that console players were buying up games that brought instant gratification, like GTO, Call of Duty, etc - the action/shooters - in increasing numbers. Can you blame them for wanting a share of that pie for themselves? OTOH, I do sense a growing concern among hard-core roleplayers that the limited choices available to them are becoming stale. I can understand that feeling. After all, I watched Saturn go from being an innovative auto company to being a stifled branch of GMC to being nonexistent. Hopefully good RPG's won't go that same route, and hopefully Beth will remember its RP-gamers and more importantly, respect them by continuing to offer serious RPG's.