|
|
  |
Your Writing Process, And/Or Problems with Same |
|
|
Jacki Dice |
May 22 2013, 03:10 AM
|

Knower

Joined: 18-March 10

|
*slinks back in* I have a problem. This has been holding me up for ages and I'm not sure what to do. How do you go about writing action sequences? I avoid them when I can, but at times it's necessary. Part of my problem is when I read an action scene, I have a very hard time processing what happened. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm too visual? But it generally takes me several times to grasp what happened (or I just skip to the end and watch for signs of what happened, like a deep cut to the leg when the opponent used a sword or something.) Or when can they be avoided? Obviously reading: QUOTE Miranda beat an ogre on the road. isn't exciting. And skipping to the end: QUOTE Miranda finally reached the inn after an encounter with an ogre. The beast had been triple her size, with fangs as large her hands, and breath that smelled suspiciously of death. It took what seemed like hours to finally escape with her life, though she retained a deep gash in her thigh for it. The size of the wound promised that after it healed, the reminder would remain for life. can only be done so many times, right? This post has been edited by Jacki Dice: May 22 2013, 03:11 AM
--------------------
|
|
|
|
ThatSkyrimGuy |
May 22 2013, 03:35 AM
|

Finder

Joined: 4-May 13
From: Somewhere between here and there

|
QUOTE(Jacki Dice @ May 21 2013, 09:10 PM)  I have a problem. This has been holding me up for ages and I'm not sure what to do.
How do you go about writing action sequences? I avoid them when I can, but at times it's necessary. Part of my problem is when I read an action scene, I have a very hard time processing what happened. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm too visual? But it generally takes me several times to grasp what happened (or I just skip to the end and watch for signs of what happened, like a deep cut to the leg when the opponent used a sword or something.)
Or when can they be avoided?
I have run into this also. I worry about my description not fitting the bill, simply because I know nothing of how to use a sword or axe or bow. Since there is a great deal of violence in the game, and hence most fan fics, avoiding it doesn't seem practical. I think being "too visual" could be an asset rather than a handicap. When I need to add a little action, I visualize the events, often repeatedly. Almost like watching a movie over and over. Then I keep that vision and just describe what I "saw". You could certainly get away with doing it all as you showed in your second example. I guess it would depend on how important the action scene is to your story or character development. Some research on weapons and tactics will help. The internet is loaded with that info. Watching martial arts films can help too. I'm not a fan of them, but techniques are displayed very well, and this helps with visualization. Hope this helped...
--------------------
|
|
|
|
SubRosa |
May 22 2013, 04:14 AM
|

Ancient

Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds

|
I have found that Arma is an excellent source of information on Real Life swordfighting. Talhoffer Longsword: Armoured and Unarmoured is an excellent article to start with on longswording (which is to say sword fighting). So is A Brief Look at Stances. Hurstwic has a good page on Axe Fighting as well as Sword and Shield TechniquesHere are some nice slow motion axe movesSomething to keep in mind about real life longswording, is that most fights were over in seconds. Typically the first passage of arms was the last. Because it is all about skill, and when a poorly skilled person meets someone better, they typically die straight off. If you watch the various videos made by historical reenactors, or look through the ancient fighting manuals, you can see how that happens. Look through the videos and other things, and just copy some of the things you see. It is not plagarism, but how longswording really works. Just like a series of chess moves, or a dance routine. A few RL longswording moves I have used are: A simple move that pins an enemy's sword against your torso, leaving them exposed to a counter: A skeleton uses a morte strike, Vols counters by by halfswording to parry. Vols would have been disarmed if he had tried to hold on to his sword with both hands when the skellie pulled his sword down. Tadrose succeeding with the morte strike disarm This post has been edited by SubRosa: May 22 2013, 04:36 AM
--------------------
|
|
|
|
McBadgere |
May 22 2013, 04:26 AM
|
Councilor

Joined: 21-October 11

|
Oddly enough, I was going to suggest asking Subrosa...  ... Nevermind...  ... Another thing I thought of, is to picture it playing out...Like in a film or tv show...Who does what, and where they end up...Like choreography...Then just write out what you could "See" then refine it...That's how I work anyways... This post has been edited by McBadgere: May 22 2013, 04:26 AM
|
|
|
|
Colonel Mustard |
May 22 2013, 10:27 AM
|

Master

Joined: 3-July 08
From: The darkest pit of your soul. Hi there!

|
First off, a general guide I put together on writing combat scenes. It's tailored towards Mass Effect, is completely unhinged and if you're particularly attached to the fourth wall your head will probably explode, but the general overview may have some useful advice in it for you. As for the specific problem of the fight scene and how it goes, try a bullet pointed list or something like that. Try treating it as a problem with a desired solution, that problem being a bad guy and maybe additional hazards and that solution being their defeat, with weapons, skills and circumstances to hand being tools; in the example you gave, Miranda has the problem of a murderous ogre, and the solution of killing it in self defence. Of course, the key thing to remember is that the ogre is viewing this situation in exactly the same way; it has a problem (it's hungry, and it's potential lunch is going to fight back) and it also has a solution that it wants to reach (it wants to kill its potential lunch and then chow down). This means that combat becomes a series of actions, counteractions, counter-counteractions, counter-counter-counteractions and so on, and as a writer you might well find it useful to break these down into turns, sort of like in a pen-and-paper RPG. To use your example with Miranda dealing with an ogre, you could basically plan out the scene like this. Problem: Ogre Detail on ogre: Very big, very strong, slow and clumsy. Armed with a large wooden club Tools at hand Miranda (able to move quickly, good with a sword, but probably not going to survive even one hit from an ogre's club) Miranda's trusty sabre Terrain; dry roadway running through a wood. Potential cover and concealment in the trees - Ogre steps out onto the road before Miranda, brandishing its club and roaring
- Miranda sees the threat, and trying not to panic, steps back out of its reach and draws her sabre
- The ogre takes a step forwards and swings its club in a wide arc at her to try and swat her down
- Miranda dodges back, the club whooshing past her
- The ogre is thrown off balance by the force behind its swing, and stumbles forwards, shoulder first
- Miranda darts in to try and hack at its shoulder in order to try severing a tendon; the ogre is too tall and is beyond her reach, and instead the blade slices into the ogre's bicep
- The ogre is enraged by the pain and turns back towards her, knocking Miranda sprawling as it smacks her with its forearm
- Miranda is on the ground and winded. She misses a turn
- The ogre raises its club overarm and swings down on Miranda
- Miranda rolls out of its way
- The ogre grabs Miranda by her ankles and lifts her up, dangling her head down.
- Sabre still in hand, and at just the right height, Miranda stabs it in the crotch
- The ogre drops her and falls to its knees screaming. It misses a turn on account of it never being able to make ugly little ogre babies
- Miranda scrambles to her feet
- The ogre continues to wish it had never been born
- Miranda slashes her sabre across its throat and puts it out of her misery. She walks away, cleaning her sabre as explosions detonate behind her, but does not look back as true badasses never look at explosions
Obviously, there's still a lot you'd need to do to make that a fight scene, but putting a skeleton of the scene down on paper when you're not sure what's going to happen is a very good way to figure it out.
|
|
|
|
Grits |
May 22 2013, 12:09 PM
|

Councilor

Joined: 6-November 10
From: The Gold Coast

|
Jackie, youve reminded me of Elmore Leonards rule number 10: Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.  Another resource I am pretty much continuously re-reading is D. Foxys Of Blades, Fights, and Assassins. As a beginner I cant recommend this guide enough. One thing that helps me (especially when there are more than two combatants) is to write out everything that everyone does to make sure I have the timing plausible. Then I just dont use the parts that the POV character couldnt see or wouldnt notice. (For example I use very few of my outline notes about footing in the actual scene, but I know in the final edit that its right because I spent time figuring it out.) I also go out in the garage and smack Bob the punching bag with Mr. Grits practice swords. That helps me a lot. A yardstick and buddy (standing on a chair for the ogre) work well, or in a pinch a yardstick and a shirt on a hanger hooked over a door. I didnt get the whole blade angles thing until I tried it. This part is personal preference, because I try to write things that I would like to read. Once Ive done a bunch of research and learned all kinds of things, I try to let my new knowledge inform the scene rather than intrude into it. I cut a lot of details out in editing so that the scene reads as quickly as the fight.
--------------------
|
|
|
|
SubRosa |
May 22 2013, 05:39 PM
|

Ancient

Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds

|
QUOTE(treydog @ May 22 2013, 07:53 AM)  Also- "less is more". It is OK to keep the descriptions simple- they can still be vivid. (Mustard's example is excellent in that regard). Provide just enough information so that the reader's imagination can fill in the rest. That does two things- it avoids 5 pages of "then Miranda parried in quarte" -AND it draws the reader in. Instead of being a passive consumer of your words, the reader becomes a participant.
I agree. Too much description - of any kind - can just bog down the story and make your reader bored. That is why I mix up RL longswording with more generic descriptions like this: A moment later it turned, and cleaved one of the skeletons that stood beside it in two. Valerius' meteoric arming sword swept out a moment later, and smote the other into dust. I try to use the RL depictions as highlights. Then the generic stuff to fill in the rest.
--------------------
|
|
|
|
PhonAntiPhon |
May 22 2013, 06:41 PM
|

Mouth

Joined: 27-August 12
From: Whiterun, central Skyrim.

|
QUOTE(Elisabeth Hollow @ May 22 2013, 06:12 PM) Also, dont be afraid to allow your character to get injured. I like to challenge myself and have them get injured and go ,"Quick! How do we recover from this?!"
This definitely. It's important to always have in your mind that your character can, and should, get hurt. It makes things more interesting - as Ms H says. One of the very earliest stories I wrote had Niamh dying in it, and she regularly gets a pasting. Writing about a flawless character who is superhuman is the same as playing a game on God Mode, it gets boring for both you and reader Very Quickly. Flaws, failings, and the ability to get hurt are just some of what makes things more "Real" and more interesting. Also, try to push yourself outside of your comfort zone by writing about events and situations which you would not normally think of or explore, sometimes your own discomfort or awkwardness will come across in what you write and can actually make a situation much more interesting to read. As an aside, this is how my writing process inevitably starts... Written Words - "Patriarch"This post has been edited by PhonAntiPhon: May 22 2013, 08:25 PM
--------------------
Settled in Breezehome - (Mostly)
|
|
|
|
Colonel Mustard |
May 22 2013, 09:28 PM
|

Master

Joined: 3-July 08
From: The darkest pit of your soul. Hi there!

|
QUOTE(PhonAntiPhon @ May 22 2013, 06:41 PM)  Writing about a flawless character who is superhuman is the same as playing a game on God Mode, it gets boring for both you and reader Very Quickly.
This is something that I've always found somewhat of a "maybe maybe not" thing when it comes to writing. A super-powered character can, in fact, be very interesting in a combat scene, but what's important is to pit them against super-powered opposition; I've written pieces with skyscraper-sized war machines battling it out whilst toppling entire cities, but as both sides were of roughly equal power levels it ended up reading with the same intensity and excitement as, say, a swordfight between two human combatants of equal skill. If your two antagonising parties are of a superpowered disposition, there are two other things that I always feel should be kept in mind; - Make it stylistic. I've always had a soft spot for the Wuxia genre from Asia, partially thanks to my own interests in martial arts, but while the fight scenes in them are spectacularly over the top, when they work, they work very well thanks to the fact that they can be absolutely beautiful and incredibly exhilerating; the cinematography, choreography, movement and music are used in a manner that is generally uncaring for realism and instead is focussed on using violence between two or more antagonists in an artistic fashion. Whilst film and writing are two very different genres, you can apply a similar principle; make the writing poetic and the prose detailing the combat beautiful (and delineate the divide between pose and poetry as well hooray!).
- Make the power cost. If your character is superpowered in a setting where nobody else is, put a price on those powers. Make that awesome spell shorten the mage's lifespan whenever it's cast, force the warrior to sacrifice something truly dear to them that's completely irreplacable in order to gain the sword that will enable them to single-handedly defeat the armies of Lord Darkness and restore peace to the land. At risk of blowing my own trumpet, Almeria from Madgod looks on paper to be a stupidly overpowered character (partly because I wrote her as a tribute to characters from Wuxia films and so I could indulge in a little Wuxia-esque stuff of my own); she uses a potion that enhances her strength to inhuman levels and speeds up her reactions to a degree where she perceives the world to be moving in slow motion, and she has a magic, self-aware sword that aids her in fighting. But on the other hand, that came with a price, and the potion is highly addictive and is slowly killing her, whilst her sword became self-aware only after she trapped her sister's soul in it by accident.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on how it can be done, and it is one of those Your Milage May Vary things, I guess. This post has been edited by Colonel Mustard: May 22 2013, 09:29 PM
|
|
|
|
Darkness Eternal |
May 22 2013, 09:54 PM
|

Master

Joined: 10-June 11
From: Coldharbour

|
Also, a tip when writing fight scenes is to bring the enemy of the protagonist to live. Of course you can support how your protagonist is a skilled combatant and slayer of giants, etc. But no one is truly invincible. Show his/her fears, and the enemies fears through to physical visuals such as sweat and trembling and mistakes or vocal threats, etc. Add emotion in the minds of characters and not just "So he blocked, and parried and lunged and flipped and stabbed." I've done this mistake before of dwelling too much on the fancy and not balancing it out on characters, which helps drive the story more than anything. What are they feeling during this battle? Fear? Sadness? Anger? Their weaknesses against an enemy? Ah, and surroundings! As a wise man once said. "Always mind your surroundings."-Ra's Al Ghul. QUOTE Each slash cost Herren Of Bretony more power than he'd used to throw a child across the room; each parry aged him a decade. He decided he'd best review his strategy once more. He no longer even tried to retaliate. Exhaustion began to shadow his perceptions, drawing away his consciousness, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely feel the edges of the room; he dimly sensed a flight of stairs, stairs that paved a way to the entrance of the fortress and a rocky balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Desselius just was relentless, tirelessly ferocious and fearless as he discarded his shield as if it were useless in his hand.
The first impact came from a closed fist, and white light filled his vision. And there was a second impact against his back that was the stone rail of the balcony. He and Desselius paused for one single, terrifying moment, blades locked together, staring at each other past a metal collision of steel against steel, and in that instant Herren found himself wondering in tremendous fear if he was going to die. And then his opponent's head bashed forward and the room turned upside down and he fell to the ceiling, but not really, of course: it only felt that way because he had flipped over the rail and he was falling headfirst toward the ruined fortress floor, and neither his arms nor his legs were paying any attention to what he was trying to make them do. His mind seemed busy elsewhere, and really, the entire experience was absolutely mortifying.
This is my death . . .
This post has been edited by Darkness Eternal: May 22 2013, 09:55 PM
--------------------
And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed. I long for scenes where man hath never trod A place where woman never smiled or wept There to abide with my Creator, God, And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept, Untroubling and untroubled where I lie The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
|
|
|
|
Colonel Mustard |
May 22 2013, 10:33 PM
|

Master

Joined: 3-July 08
From: The darkest pit of your soul. Hi there!

|
QUOTE(McBadgere @ May 22 2013, 10:24 PM)  Maybe so, but you're doing them your way and not wasting your time doing something that you haven't got your heart in...
Whereas if you're writing the characters as they turn out as in the games we're playing then that's a damned sight more honest and fun, in my opinion...
Besides, isn't writing simply a personal artistic expression?...If everyone else wants to play by those...Rules...Fine...
But if I'm happier having my characters do what they do, then I'll be doing what I can to make my writing enjoyable to me?...Isn't that more honest to myself?... It may be honest to your self, but it's dishonest to the rest of the world; the primary power of art is its ability to reflect truth in the world, and simply altering the order of the world in order to suit a personal vision and to make it nicer is not only dishonest but is, in fact, a perversion of the nature of true artisitic expression. The primary reason why human beings express ourselves artistically is not so that we can shy away from or gloss over the bad things in the world, but so that we can rally a call to arms against the evils of the world and thus fight them, and nobody will listen to the call of a liar.
|
|
|
|
treydog |
May 23 2013, 01:47 AM
|

Master

Joined: 13-February 05
From: The Smoky Mountains

|
Several things....
Rules... um the question becomes whose rules? If I am writing my story, yes, I make a sort of contract with myself to abide by certain guidelines for my characters and for my world. And I abide by certain conventions of grammar and form so that my words are intelligible.
But any idea that there is some Style Guide for All Fiction- no.
And that is especially true for me. I write my stories mostly for my own enjoyment. I post them here because I hope other people will like them too. I strive for an internal consistency- but I never lose sight of the fact that I am writing fiction and fiction about a video game at that.
That means I can indulge in- to quote from one of my favorite movies-"If this isn't the way things happened- it should have been." (The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean).
Does that make it somehow "untrue"? Well sure it does. The story of my actual life is something that would bore me to tears to write and that no one would read. Athlain (or Athynae or Bryn) can act in ways and say things that I only wish I could. If they reflect the reality of my world, it is through the lens of a fun-house mirror, with most of the flaws and the dull bits polished away.
If I want real-world truth, I don't look for it in fan-fiction. What I do look for, and what I have found- in abundance- is writing that holds my interest, that makes me laugh, makes me think, makes me cry, and makes me wish I had written a great deal of it.
To close where I began- with rules. Because I am not a professional writer, there is only one rule for the stories I write here: "Have fun doing it. Else it is not worth it."
--------------------
The dreams down here aren't broken, nah, they're walkin' with a limp...
The best-dressed newt in Mournhold.
|
|
|
|
|
  |
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
|