My problem arises from the way I'm doing this. I have a Wordpad .rtf file that's multiple posts long. I use Wordpad, as its capabilities do not exceed those of the text-box here. The bottom of the file is being worked on, while the part at the top has pretty well settled down and is ready to post. So I snip off a coherent chunk from the top and post it. If I remember to save it separately first, I get an idea of how big it is, and can re-consider whether it's too big. If I forget, sometimes I splurge out too much.

The chunk that's posted is removed from the file and saved (and these days converted to html and posted on my own site) but I haven't developed the habit of always doing that first. Then it's deleted off the top of the "assembly line" file. What happens is that my perception of the size of the piece I'm taking off the top is being influenced by the total size of the file, so if I've got a large amount in the pipeline, I'm likely to take too big a chunk to post.

And in my case, that's mostly a reflection of how well the mod-building is going, with an overlay of how much dialog the current quest is using. If I get hung up building a new mesh, for example, my writing slows down, but once I'm past that, I'll have a bunch of new action to write about, and the file will grow rapidly again, and make an oversized post more likely.

What I do when I break up a chapter into individual episodes is put a whole pile of spaces between each episode I plan to post. Here is an example. Then I select each, get the word count, and adjust my breaking points if needed. Granted I have an easier time since I use Word, and it gives me the word count once I highlight an area of text. But you could copy a prospective area and paste it into Elisabeth's link, and still adjust here or there. Just don't cut anything out.



This post has been edited by SubRosa: Sep 11 2013, 08:33 PM

I don't know about grits, but I would rather read a longer post than a longer post split into shorter posts, if that post was relating events in a single scene/contiguous piece of drama. If a post is really long and there's a way of splitting it at a natural break, and/or providing a cliffhanger, so to speak, then that's fair enough - (gods know I've done enough) - but if its not appropriate then I think that the post should be left as one, regardless of length.

Yes when the scene as a whole builds tension or has a subtle mood shift that gets lost in the pieces. Also yes when the writer is posting only once per week or less often. The fractured scenes with a week or more in between are often better (to me) as a whole, but big posts every two to three days make it difficult to keep up. Of course some scenes are fine in multiple parts.

I read most of Teresa’s story on your website, so the scenes flowed with no indication of where you split them up for posting. It felt different once I caught up and started reading it as episodes. That’s when I started examining how I read stories here and what sorts of cues were getting missed in mine.

One thing that I like about trying to wedge a whole scene into 2,000 words or less is that shorter posts encourage brutal editing. The adverbs are the first to go.

Something I have noticed I am doing with Seven, that I never really consciously thought of before, is what you alluded to about writing for the format. I find I am writing shorter scenes - in the 1-2k word length now - than I used to. Where before I tended to write bigger scenes, or multiple scenes that flowed together with little linking paragraphs. Now I seem to be mostly doing away with the linkages, and just ending the scene, then starting a new one so that it will better fit into a easily readable post.

As a general rule of thumb, writing both for the forum, a work I'm aiming to publish and back in my days when I wrote on FF.net, I would write a minimum of 2,000 words per chapter, and a maximum of 5,000; it's a length I personally enjoy reading and I feel strikes a good middle ground between giving a reader a good amount of content to sink their teeth into and not wearying them with too much to read. If I hit a natural break point, though, I may stop a chapter early; in my current original fiction project I have a chapter that's only 1,700 words. I cut it off there as it was an action-based one and the action had finished; keeping on with the next scene just would have just made the pacing go off.

The only exception I really had to this is my Conclave of Princes story, where I decided I'd go for a bite-sized chunks series of linked vignettes, so generally have each part between 900 and 1,100 words.





Also, this is completely different from the current subject and only tangentially relevant to this thread, but it seems the best place to ask:

How do you guys go about doing comments on other people's stories? Only I'm finding them so difficult to write nowadays that I've basically given up and have just become a lurker on the fanfic boards; I want to actually say something meaningful and useful and something that's more than just 'good job' or a summary of events in the chapter, but I find it insanely difficult to do that by a chapter-by-chapter basis.

What I do when I read is open up a second window to comment in. Then as I see things I particularly liked/thought was original/well-done, I will write a sentence or two to comment about it. Often I copy and paste the text from the story. Sometimes it is something as simple as the particular words the writer chose to use in order to "paint a picture" - so to speak. Other times it is an observation about the characters, or the overall tone of the piece. For example, in Cardonaccum, h.e.r. chose to make her main character a person with a stutter which I particularly liked, so I commented about that.

That would be a problem for me. I have multiple working files and one big one for posted chapters. I pull the material out of the huge outline file when I'm getting close enough to organize it, then put it in files according to what I predict will be the chapter segments. They usually split and accumulate as the writing adds up. Then I cut (way) back down to what should fit into posts. I've tried just writing it all out as a full chapter and then splitting it, but I've dumped too many entire chapters that way. I cut too far until there's no heart left in it. Then it's time for a do-over.

Wow, I'm super simplistic. I have everything in one spot, never make notes, and don't change anything unless my computer decides to erase my work.

I'm like that, really. I might have a mind map or two outlining characters and a rough plot outline, but that's about it. Otherwise I just generally write what I think is good when I can and post it up as I write it.

Same here. I mean I'll edit when I re-read the piece, but everything is 99% original work.

That's awesome. What do you do when you get an idea that fits way ahead of where you are in your writing? Do you just remember it?

I keep it in my head and think about how I can make that happen.

Now, I WILL be honest, the final chapter in Kayla's story is nearly finished. That's the only time I'll ever write ahead, is the final chapter.

What I do is make a separate word doc for each chapter I write. Then I put in spaces to break it up into individual post-sized pieces. I keep a separate text file for my plot notes. Plus another text file for character notes. Plus another text file for world notes. I also back up all my writing files every day on a thumb drive. Just to be safe.

Here is an example of my plot outline for chapter 1 of Seven


I do not always stick to my outlines though. Sometimes when I am writing I get better ideas and add them spontaneously. Or I decide that something does not work and drop it. For example, Nashira was originally going to be a dual sword user, but I changed her to use a single sword and made Valens the two-sword guy instead. It just felt more right. Also the entire root system traveling at the end of the chapter was never in my outline. I just decided to throw that in while I was writing that part.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Sep 12 2013, 02:53 AM

That seems like a lot of extra work, Subrosa.

Wow. Maybe I'm just lazy, lol

Everyone does it differently. My memory is crap, so if I have an idea I need to write it down, otherwise I will forget it. So I write down just about everything I think of. Even things that never make it into the story. In some cases I will even write down dialogue in my outlines.

It DOES seem to work differently for everyone. Which is fine

On installment length, I've been going upwards - I used to try for installments of around 1.1-1.5k words, but am now more in the 1.5-2.5k area. I've noticed that I've been choosing breaking points mainly based on length, which has lately meant breaking in places that really aren't ideal, and am trying to change that. My actual chapters are for posting on fanfiction.net or AO3, and are generally in the 8-13k length - I like long chapters!

Re: notes... this is actually a bugbear of mine. I basically keep EVERYTHING in my head and have since I started. I wanted to stop doing this (I'm prone to wandering off and not really thinking about Adryn for months on end which isn't conducive to remembering some of the details), and started forcing myself to keep notes... but then it turned out that writing notes is an A+ way to procrastinate from actual writing. Moreover, almost everything about Adryn's story is basically in a continual state of evolution as I think about it and refine it or as I write and find things go in surprising ways, so generally whenever I read my notes I go "ugh, this is outdated, that's outdated, that's outdated...". I'd have to update them almost constantly, which, well, see above re: procrastination.

Honestly, although I have been trying and writing them is fun (...procrastination) I'm not sure it makes sense for me to keep detailed notes and outlines. Especially because I suspect the things I forget are often the things I wasn't so attached to or kind of meh about, and this means that the next time I come back to Adryn's story I am starting with a clean slate in that respect and able to start over.

Although there are a few things which are a lot of detail and hard for me to remember properly, where the notes do really help. Lists, particularly! Among others, my notes folder contains:
- a table of birthsigns for all the characters who play much of a role
- a list of settlements on Vvardenfell and whether I've decided they were created before or after it was opened for settlement
- a timeline with e.g. birth dates and the like
- a document trying to figure out the phonology of the Dwemer language so I can come up with realistic-sounding names and words later on.
and I'd like to sit down and work out currency and make a list of how expensive what things are in Adryn's world at some point, but I've kept putting it off.

I would like to ask about the theme of a story. How dark is too dark? Should one try to add humor in it or will it be too overwhelming? I ask this because those who read my stories and my characters know that I don't have good or bad characters, but mostly "human" and morally "grey" characters. My tales are often melancholy(atrocities, violence, murder).

I know we have rules in the forum, and I just wanted to write down what is acceptable here in the forums and how far I can go? Note that I am not speaking of simple sexual scenes between two characters in love. I meant some more intense and horrible scenes like rape, etc. In fact, I stopped writing one of my stories because I didn't think the idea of two characters having an incestous relationship would be something appealing to readers. Note that such things I won't get into tremendous detail.

I'd like to point out that it isn't something I take extreme pleasure in writing due to a warped mind. But I wanted to be a bit more mature in my stories and I intent to not shy away from the cruel realities of our world or Tamriel's world which is twice as bad.

If anyone has read George R. R. Martin's work, they would know exactly what I am talking about.

So, my question is, how much is too much? I don't want to write something that will scare the majority of the readers away. I understand some people with weaker stomachs or having their own limits to what is acceptable in paper(or in a forum post) will inevitably stop reading just because of that reason alone. But so far I haven't come across anything that's overwhelmingly dark. I want to be cautious before I know what I'm getting into.

I remember Rumpleteasza writing something that passed between Helseth and Morgiah that I was sure was a description of incest. Foxy saw it the same way I did, so we both made complete asses of ourselves making Morgiah and Helseth jokes - thereby shocking Rumple, who meant no such thing in her writing of that scene, ROFL !!! Oh well.

I know a few things you have mentioned above that would offend many, and you do have to remember that this site has minors on board. We really don't need for this place to become one their parents won't let them come to.

I would suggest PM'ing any scenes you are concerned about to a Mod either here or at Bethsoft - if it passes the Mod's OKAY, then print it.