LOL I remember that story.

But yes definitely this. Dialogue should not be you, it needs to be them. One good way of doing this is as McB says, think about someone else saying the lines.
Equally though, and obv YMMV - the more you regard the character as an entity in their own right, the easier it is to write the dialogue as they would say it and what they would say.

I.e. the more you can separate you from her, the more real she is and the more the dialogue becomes hers.

Thankyou so much to everyone for their tips, recommendations and kind words truly appreciated.

I did a bit of research about demographics in the ancient and medieval worlds and I'm starting to get some progress made in developing the scale of my world thanks to all the advice. I plan to have the general scale in my head and on paper (on my computer) before I start writing. Shouldn't be long. Time to my calculator and hard-copy skyrim map out!


As for characters, again some very sound advice. I know Attia inside out from countless hours spent on oblivion with her (she's my only game to A-bomb) and am currently rediscovering her in skyrim. It will definitely be a bit of a challenge at first, but I'm now confident I can convey her well. I'll probably just a chapter or 2 before I start posting so I can see how she comes across in my writing.


Again, all the advice is 100% appreciated and I hope to be able to follow along with some of the great stories here and soon share my own

Great advice! Here’s my humble addition. For dialog I think the best thing is to listen to how real people talk to one another. Especially strangers since you won’t really care what they’re saying just how they’re saying it. Real conversations look like a mess on the page, but that’s a place to start.

Also really knowing your characters makes the dialog just flow. When you can hear your characters talking in your head then it’s just a matter of getting it all down as fast as possible. I like little exercises like ‘what would Abiene order at Starbucks,’ ‘what would Darnand say to the cashier at the grocery store (nothing),’ and ‘how would Jerric diffuse this emotionally charged situation and get back to drinking.’ Let your characters ride along in your head through the day. If you know how your TES character behaves at a Laundromat or the movies, then you really know them.

Some things to watch out for. When you the writer have to convey specific things through dialog, be extra careful that the words are still coming from the character not just through them. Also speech tags. Some folks use great creativity to let you know who is talking, she proclaimed portentously. Others use a simple he said/she said and let the dialog take all of the attention. Most fall somewhere in the middle. Since even professional writers can’t agree, I say do what you think sounds best.

I think that sometimes when you've nailed the inspiration, because something just clicks, you'll find that a story will all but write itself; you end up hanging on just to try and keep some modicum of control!
For instance I'm finding Skyrim Eilidh to be very inspirational and we've just clicked. It's great but the next update currently covers both sides of nearly 20 pages of reporter's notebook! It'll be a little bit till it's up and on... LOL.

One other thing from me on dialogue, I like writing it as the character would speak it, pronunciation and so forth. Its a personal thing I guess but I find it really helps get into the character and provides differentiation to the reader.
Terry Pratchett does it for example with Death and Golems.
You can use it as technique to really emphasise differences between characters...

I've got another question for all you writers (sorry about this); do you ever find your writing style or format changing?

Only, I found myself breaking the format with Eldrar, first when it expanded to cover conversations replayed from memory, and now it's gone again. After Eldrar's first night in Bruma I ended up writing an interlude, pretty much sitting inside his head watching the thoughts run around his head, rather than seeing things through his journal entries.

It doesn't fit with the journal entries, chronologically it takes place both before and after the journal entry it follows(between the events and him writing the entry the next day), and it's completely different to the other parts I've written, but it seemed like the thing to do at the time.

I'm not really sure whether to run with it if this sort of thing happens again or to clamp down on it and stick to the format I've chosen.

So, what do you guys think?

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: Mar 19 2014, 06:24 PM

I think the most important thing about what you just said is that you'd written something...

Rejoice!!... ...

If you really don't feel like it fits in with what you want to do, then either write something else, or maybe try to rewrite that one...

But never try and force what - or how - you're writing at that point into another shape...

As an exceptionally wise man recently told me...The important thing is to be happy in what you're doing...And if you're happy writing something one way...Then keep doing it...Everything else is just stuff...

Well you do have to explain to your reader what you're doing. Just so they know it's his thoughts, not actual current events, except that the thinking is current. But as long as you're not confusing us, it's all good.

That said, sometimes you will want to confuse your reader. Just make sure it's deliberate when you do.

Maybe you should rethink the format?

If you find yourself doing something different from your format, my first impression is to go with the change. Your wrote it that way for a reason, probably because you feel more comfortable doing it that way. Or to put it simply, because it felt right. It is good to experiment and try new ways of writing, it makes us stretch our talents, and find where they really lie. But when you find what does work for you, that is what you want to stick with.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Mar 19 2014, 10:21 PM

Writing something has never been a problem for me. Writing something I'm happy with on the other hand...



Well that's the thing. On the one hand I think that it doesn't fit because it's too different. On the other hand it seemed like a natural progression as I wrote it.

Maybe I just have an issue with it because it's breaking the format and being untidy, I don't know.

I think I might as well leave it in. Maybe it's just the character's way of telling me there are some things he won't write in his journal, even though he still thinks them.



I've made it as clear as I can, without relying on external explanations, I suppose I could always introduce it. I've already got it subtitled as an interlude.



I guess I'll have to. I'm happier with it than most of the journal entries, but the focus of it is so much narrower. And I don't think that the content could fit into his journal, it's mostly the thought process which would end up as a couple of lines that don't say as much about the character.

I'm not sure I need to change what I've got so far, but I guess I could leave open the possibility of more of these little interludes that might come to me.

Either that or I've got to scrap the whole lot. And I'd rather not do that.

I was hoping to start a thread in a week or two.

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: Mar 19 2014, 10:44 PM

As long as you do something typographically (or otherwise) to clearly differentiate between the types of narrative, having a couple of different perspectives is not really a problem. Most of my work has been first person narrative- but there were a few time when I wanted to present events or conversations that neither of the main characters witnessed. Because I built the Interludes in between the chapters, I had a convenient dumping ground place to put those bits of explication.

I can see a dual-format narrative working quite well- the personal, close-in perspective of the journal working in harmony (or counterpoint) to the omniscient narrator providing a wider view of events. (And also. as you noted, perhaps indicating thoughts the character had but does not want to commit to the page).

All that said, I would not recommend going overboard with points-of-view... if you get some sort of Russian novel going where it is 200 pages before we realize that we have been listening to the thoughts of the main character's horse.....

The story will tell you how it wants to be told. Certainly for the first pass, take what it gives you. Once the words are on the page, there will be time to decide if the manner of telling is what you want.

Never was a truer word spoken.

This I think, will go in my signature...

I've found myself excising chunks of the third fanfic involving Ra'jirra, since they involve a concept that really has no relevance to the plot at all, and would work better in a separate story.

Yeah, I had to exclude a few things of Kraven's story that would feel/fit better in a separate one. The issue I'm having is that my current story has different characters with their own agendas and goals. The location is in this fortress/stronghold built like a prison.

Thing is it won't stay in that location for too long, as the tale will eventually move from there to somewhere completely different and the focus on some characters will have to switch. I don't think it would be wise to write the life-changing happenings of one character and then say "Meanwhile in this stronghold."

Hey!... ...

Soooo, right...How often do you find research completely derailing you from the actual writing...

I now find myself trying to find out what a specific type of tree is... ...

Bear in mind it's in Britain, so it's not one of them gigantic Californian Redwood things, but there's this line of trees I've been seeing for years...Now I come to use that in a story, I discover that if I ever actually knew what they are, I've forgotten it...Shockingly enough... ...

But they're very tall, pointy and sway-y...But big and solid with it too...Y'know?...




Anyways, my question is, has anyone else found themselves chasing some random bit of research rather than actually writing?... ...

Yes. Very much. Then scribbling down all sorts of disjointed ideas that have nothing to do with the work underway. It’s like thinking with a net rather than a line. I end up with more than I was fishing for, but it’s mostly interesting stuff.

I am so guilty of this. I can spend hours and hours doing research. Whether it is looking things up in the books I own, scouring Wikipedia, The Arma, and other web sources, or going through recreationist videos. Name sites where I often waste a huge amount of time. Since every name has to be just right, both in how it looks on the page, sounds when you pronounce it, and what the meaning of it is.

But also it is because I have to be in the right frame of mind to write. If I am tired, I just cannot do it. I do not have the emotional energy. But I still have the energy to research, since that is just looking things up and taking notes for later use. So when I have a long day at work (and it has been a long month and half!) I am too tired to write the story. But I might still put in an hour or more of researching things.

I try not to get too caught up, I'll research kind of on the fly if I come up against something that needs rather more specific accuracy than I'm normally likely to be accused of!

Sorry to haul another question in here for you guys, but I find I need some advice.

I've run into something of a problem with Caught in the Web:

The original idea was for Mephala's daedric quest to play a role in the story, with the notion of the whole playing out in three parts. The problem is that Mephala's quest was one of the lynchpins of that idea, which makes it unworkable. Tarvyn's set up with only three majors: Destruction, blade, and marksman, the rest are just filler. So for him to reach level 15, everyone of those three will have to be beyond expert rank, which is going to take one hell of a long time. Since it was kind of crucial to the whole Web theme, I find myself in a rather uncomfortable position.

So to put it simply, the web is unravelling.


Any advice on what to do in this sort of situation?

Cheat! The game may require level 15, but there are no levels in Fan Fiction, and especially not from the point of view of the character. He's not going to find "You must level 15" written in his journal, so just do it already!

That specific quest doesn't have any real requirements that any character can't meet. The developers only put the level restriction on, so that the reward would not be OP. With that in mind, reduce the reward, or whatever you need to continue the tale afterwards.

I tend to try and stick as close as possible to in-game events, and doing that would basically mean me trying to write something based off the UESPwiki entry for the quest. I sincerely doubt I could write anything half decent, let alone something good off of it.

And the point of it isn't the quest, but the murder. Being former Morag Tong he doesn't go in for murder outside of a contract, and doesn't have a reason to murder anyone in Cyrodiil anyway. So it'd pretty much require me to break the roleplay and go out of character to pull it off.

Edit: Urgh

*facepalms*

I'm an idiot. The solution's simple: Throw Mephala's quest into an Oblivion Portal, and come up with something more suitable to replace it.

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: May 7 2014, 03:32 AM