That’s what I would have suggested had I gotten here in a timely manner, Callidus. Let the game inspire the story but not limit it.

Grits- Thanks for the advice, I guess I've been sticking a little closer to the game than I really need to.

Sorry to keep asking all these, but I've got another question, this time it's actually about the writing process:

Do you ever find yourself rewriting what you've got so far?

Only, with Caught in the Web it's sort of reached the point where I'll write something, and then when I'm giving it a once over before posting I'll end up rewriting chunks of it, which really eats up time.

Any advice or tips that might help reduce this?

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: May 8 2014, 10:22 AM

Asking questions is what the thread is for- so please go ahead...

It sounds like you are trying to post from a first draft... The time you take to get it the way you WANT it is not wasted or lost. Different methods of writing/revising work for different people, but here are some things to try.

"Free-write" the first draft as much as possible. Don't worry about punctuation, spelling, etc. Do make marginal or in-line notes as they occur to you, but keep going.

When you get to a stopping place, let it rest. Give it the rest of the day or overnight before you come back to it.

Now- you still aren't ready to post- because you are now revising. This is where you fix whatever you see that needs rewritten.

Now- let THAT draft rest too.

At this point, you may be ready to post. Read what you have, make minor changes if needed (or major ones).

The thing is- there should not be a "clock" in your head about how often to post. And it is also good to have material "in the bank" that you can post up later.

Because I am old, my drafting process is a matter of writing the first pass in a notebook. (OK- printing it in a notebook- even I can't read my handwriting). The physical connection to the paper helps me "see" the material. And I can use 3 colors of ink and make notes to myself and draw circles and arrows and so forth. That gets transcribed into Word, where I usually fix some things (and make new mistakes, about which what comes next). When I think I have a post, I read it out loud. That forces me to SEE what is written and to slow down. It also tends to ferret out the places where the writing "clunks" or is hard to follow. I fix THOSE places (and the inevitable typos)- and then am ready to post it.

I rewrite stuff all of the time.
As others have said, drafts are important. All mine are written in longhand in a notepad, then read and adjusted as necessary. Then I type them up and often rewrite sections both big and small. Sometimes I reject whole chunks...

Often, as now, my drafts are a lot further ahead than what I have actually posted; both the paper draft and the draft in my head. This is a good thing as it gives and maintains context.
Remember a story is not an isolated series of vignettes that are strung together. However obscure, all stories form a narrative whole, so having drafts in hand is important.

Don't worry about rewrites and time; your story will take as long as it takes to tell and go through as many drafts as are necessary - sometimes more, sometimes less.
Don't sweat it.

Remember also that your story is about your characters and not about the game. Everyone knows about the plot of the game, what they are interested in is your characters' stories...

Just to pick up on that thought. You do need to remember that unless told otherwise, the readers will assume the events of the game, so you need to make any separation early on. Whether it's "the events you know have all already happened" or "the usual program will not be shown because..." you make the announcement and then move on.

In your current story, it's more subtle, so you are going to be pointing out the deliberate changes (as opposed to mistakes) as you go along for a while longer. This is the hardest phase of the writing, as you're trying to establish your character's world as distinct from the readers' assumptions. But that means it gets easier as you go along, and the clues pile up and your readers can't have missed them all.

Thanks for the advice guys. My previous attempts at writing were a case of: playing-> writing-> posting (usually a time delay before posting though), and there wasn't a redraft, I'd pretty much post what I'd first written. It's only when I'm going over what I'm writing that I realise little ways in which the story's changed in my mind between drafts. But I find I'm a lot happier with what I'm writiing this time around, so I guess it must be a good thing.

Of course, it would help if I was taking better notes. Because my handwriting's so appalling I don't write things down, I picked up a cheap dictaphone some time back, and I use that. Still feels like I'm talking to myself though, and I'm not really used to taking notes yet. I do all the writing on my laptop, whenever possible just after playing the game, even though the game's ahead of what I'm writing, or rewriting.

Still, I think I'm getting better

I've seen plenty of writers do a part II of a single story while some write/update a single thread. For example, mALX's story has a single thread whereas Acadian's Buffy the Bowgirl spans in different parts.

I'm curious for those who do separate their stories into segments, why do you do it? To facilitate things for the readers? Also, do you guys recommend me separating my story into two parts or keeping it in one part?

I had been writing for quite awhile over on the BethSoft fanfic forum before moving here. So in my case, I was used to the ‘lock threads at 200 posts’ rule they have there. That’s really all there was to it. It was a learning process for me.

DE, like Acadian I started Julian's story over on the Bethsoft Forums. Like him, I started a new thread whenever I hit 200 posts. I continued that trend here when I moved Julian to Chorrol.

However, Lady Cora of Cardonaccum is a single thread, and I intend to keep it that way. I think it will be fine, as her story is not as long as Julian's.

Nothing wrong with going over it like that! I do mull the story over to myself, sometimes in the car I'll just have myself a conversation to see where it's going.
Handwriting or not I do think it's useful to just properly write things, it does give you a different perspective. I personally find doing everything on a PC a very soulless experience and that using paper puts a little more personality back in.
To be honest I'd be in less of a hurry to write after playing. Puts too much obligation on the "play write play write" dynamic which I don't think leaves enough room for expression. Mind you, YMMV and all that, I barely play the game anymore as it is and I write about Skyrim more than I play! Your story and the game you play will inevitably move at their own different paces and that's no bad thing either.

Anyway enough if my rambling. However you do it, if you enjoy it and you're getting better every time, then that's really all you need!


I tend to split stuff at natural breaks in the narrative as otherwise, particularly given the space restrictions in the threads, you just end up with a massive wall of text which can be a bit exhausting to read.
Also it's helpful to I think as a narrative device to keep things interesting, and practically it means that if I don't have my drafts handy and I forget where I am I have less to read through to find my place!
I would definitely keep a single thread if possible, but equally split it up within that.

I'd actually tend to agree about using pen and paper, but for several reasons I find using a pen to be both awkward and uncomfortable, so for it would just serve as a barrier.



I'm trying to break from the play->write thing, but I find it easier to write if I've checked in with my character that day. I'm not so good with characters, so a little refresher goes a long way with me.

And there's no arguing with that!
By which I mean that I can see exactly what you mean. That is pretty much the only reason I still do into Skyrim. Oblivion is a different matter entirely, mind...

This post has been edited by PhonAntiPhon: May 9 2014, 01:51 PM

Characters, whether they are Man, Mer or Beastfolk(Betmeri) can have different personalities, customs, attitudes, habits, goals and aspirations that can enhance and make the story progress.

Now, I do have a question that has been in the back of my mind for quite a bit, and only now since getting closer to some chapters in my fanfic story, has become something that I need information on.

Has anyone here every tried to write a few chapters of their story from the eyes of an animal? I've written a few chapters through the eyes of one, and I've tried to mold it in a way where the reader can sympathize and understand the creature, despite the fact that it is incapable of having the same intelligence certain humans has(which isn't limited to moral qualms). The most I came was with the dog trying to please his master and the competitive spirit and brotherly relationship he has with his other kin members. But that's about it and I'm afraid it might be a bit stale.

I mean, how hard would it to write a chapter through the eyes of a lion or a wolf or a tiger?

Or a horse or that most inscrutable of creatures, the common house cat?

It can be difficult because we don't quite fully understand how they perceive the world, and we tend to anthromorphize everything.

The best advice I can give you is that from what I've seen, animals (most of them anyway) tend to live in the moment. They don't dwell on "what ifs" and "if onlys" and "the future."

Cause and effect is easy to understand as long as the effect follows the cause within a minute, more like within ten seconds. If a dog were to eat spoiled food, then immediately vomit, he won't make the same mistake again. However, if said dog were to eat some Adderall (a drug commonly used for ADHD), he won't associate the following sequelae (anxiety, hyperactivity, tremors, convulsions and worse) with said ingestion. He'll just do it again, assuming he survives the first time around with timely treatment.

They do not understand chaos theory. Such connections between seemingly unrelated events are completely incomprehensible to them.

At the same time they happen to be hyperaware of their environment. The closest we can get to that as humans are those experienced by autistic people - such people have a hardwired difficulty to tune out environmental stimuli as "noise." They would survive in the wild because they notice everything the way animals do.

I hope this gets your juices flowing, DE!

Hmm. Very, very interesting. Animal perspectives, based on what you wrote, will have to be limited to what we can achieve with (highly) intelligent beings. I'll take your advice to heart. It is something I look forward to getting to and writing. A bit of a challenge that I'll enjoy. Hopefully I can come up with a good yarn. I'll take the "Live in the now." far more seriously than I did before. Thanks, HER!



This post has been edited by Darkness Eternal: Aug 27 2014, 05:00 PM

Many, many, many summers ago, I tried my hand at writing a story from the perspective of a pack of wolves. It was a sorry attempt, in hindsight. Certainly not something I kept on! In any case, I think it's fun to try and put yourself into the mind of another creature - after all, that is what the best writers do.

I based my answer on my scientific experience. That said, if you're writing fantasy, anything goes. For example, I imagine werewolves to be smarter and more intelligent in terms of living beyond the moment (as we do), without all the anxiety normal mortals drive themselves crazy with. In other words, werewolves can plot strategy (whereas animals are more tactics oriented) towards a tangible goal, such as how to lure the lone wanderer into a dead end gully where a pack of werewolves could ambush said person, or how to break into a barn and make off with a cow without raising undue noise, and so on. Such creatures could anticipate the reactions of their enemies, and of bystanders, and plan for several different outcomes, rather than a pass-fail course.

Of course, werewolves wouldn't be interested in politics. Only in their next meal. But within that framework, I think they would be even more intelligent than wolves, lions or coyotes.

Ah, so it was obvious the animal I was referring to in this case was the werewolf? I'm so predictable aren't I?

The thing about werewolves is that obviously it is man and beast combined into one. What is stronger, the beast or the man, is up for the writer to decide. I played around with a few chapters inside the head of a werewolf and what might be going on in there besides the primary "hunt, hunt, kill, kill, feed, feed" mentality.

I'm aware they are intelligent and not completely mindless beasts, as some form of heightened sense of awareness may have carried over to their bestial state. But since we, as writers, are tasked with finding ways to make readers sympathize with our characters I began to wonder how can I make an animal a creature to sympathize? Especially an animal who's sole purpose is to hunt, kill and eat their prey like real life predators? What from the animal kingdom could I use? That's why I was sort of curious about it.

I've went over a master's relationship with his dog, how packs of Wild Dogs behave as a family in the wilderness, etc.

Since we're not talking about mundane canines here, it is safe to say a bit of their "human" side can be definitely shown when not focusing entirely on their animalistic aspects.

Something I've always wanted to write is how men could live differently in the untamed wilderness as opposed to civilization. How different he or she could be if he adapted more to a natural world that wasn't influenced or inspired by civilization. Most of what I would write would be on the perspective of a creature, but due to the limitations of the animal mind(no matter how much more intelligent it may be than a regular wolf) I'll probably have to limit the amount of time inside the mind of the beast.

Thanks, Haute. You've been a great help!

*Glances at avatar* Umm, it kinda crossed my mind that you might be writing about werewolves. Not to mention that I've read a little of your fan fic to know that you like writing stories with a dark slant.

Glad I could help!

This post has been edited by haute ecole rider: Aug 29 2014, 03:57 PM

Well, here I am again, with two questions this time:

Firstly; Since I had to restart Tarvyn's game a while back to work out the kinks in his setup, his game's currently quite a way behind what I've got written, and of course, what I've posted. The problem is that there's been a bit of a shift in his character, leaving me with the choice of either playing to what I've got written and modifying it to fit, or scrapping everything that his game hasn't reached and see if this second run follows a different course. On the one hand, I'm not too keen on the idea of scrapping what I might use at some point, on the other it kind of makes me feel like Tarvyn isn't really in the game until I've caught up to the writing.

Secondly; While I'm trying to let Tarvyn direct things as he will, there are a few fixed points in his story, which anyone who's read his story so far can undoubtedly guess at. The problem I'm having is that these fixed points keep coming back to me, pretty much demanding that I write them. Which, of course, puts them in my way. Do you think it might be worth jotting down a couple of rough drafts to work from when his story reaches that point, or is it better to try and stick to where he is now, and let the fixed points sort themselves out when he gets there? Then again, in light of the above question maybe I should just make some notes and leave it at that...

Any advice would be most appreciated.

On your first question, I find it helps to keep a file of material that I have written but did not use in the story. That way it’s not as painful to scrap big chunks of writing, like my entire original chapter 11.

Second, I think you should at least make notes when you get ideas for later in the story. It might help you focus on the part that comes next if you can get your thoughts about the later parts jotted down. Bits of dialog come to mind at the most inconvenient times, and I know I won’t be able to recall them later. If your plan changes you don’t need to use the ideas that you had originally. I have fixed points in my story that have been written for a couple of years, but that’s only the first draft and subject to change by the characters. Sometimes they grow in unexpected ways.

I hope this helps!