So, keep writing, but throw in more time with the character between drafts?

Sounds like a plan. Thanks y'all!

Good luck Callidus!

Hey guys. Just to clear some doubts here. This is more of a lore question than anything else. But for my upcoming story I have a few central characters. The thing is, can we really write about "normal" characters in a world of fantasy and magic? From what I've gathered, magical spells are for the arcane-savvy or those who have the affinity for it. Or those who pop up a spellbook and learn from there while gradually improving their skills based on knoweldge. I could be mistaken but I believe there are NPC's in Skyrim and Oblivion that can't cast spells. it is possible, that in Cyrodiil, there are people, common folk and farmers who can live over forty years and never have casted a spell in their life?

I mean the ES is abundant with magic. But there are exceptions . . . right?

And has anyone ever wrote about a character who is no warrior, no mage, no archer or adventurer but only a peasant?

Just a personal opinion here, but I think in a world that has magic, pretty well everyone will make some use of it. Even if it's only to heal themselves when they take a fall, or to start a campfire. Women will make themselves look as good as they can, and some men too. if there's a contraceptive spell, you know that will get used!

Acadian's Buffy uses frost to kill bugs in her bedroll, and keep the meat from her hunting fresh. There are a whole lot of other mundane uses in SubRosa's tales, too.

It can also be a useful reason for not having technology in its place. Your characters aren't backward, they just have an easier way to do that.

I have wondered that too; because (like you); I thought that maybe someone poor or brought up without any training of their innate abilities might not know how to cast a spell, or use the magic they might have been born with.

So I'm kind of in agreement that there might be people found in the world who are not magically inclined; or have never learned to use any powers they may possess.

The magic has to come from somewhere within them, and maybe unless they want something badly enough, they may never learn to tap into it.

Like what Ghastley said about the healing - I guess if they were injured or in pain, they may want it to stop so badly that their magicka comes to their aid without them even knowing how it happened; but without the knowledge/training/and practice, it might be just barely enough to keep them alive long enough to get themselves to a healer, etc.

(imho).

I was actually thinking about this the other day, and I agree with mALX in that some people just might not know how to use magic even if everyone has the innate ability. Magic comes from Aetherius, right? Everyone except an atronach should therefore have a replenishing magicka reserve even if they can't tap into it.

Also, spells are pretty much controlled by the Mages Guild, and they're expensive, so the average man on the street might not be able to afford to learn them.

Maybe it would also be difficult to learn spells. How magic works is never fully clear. Do you just wave your hand and fire comes out? Do you have to think of fire? Is there a magic chant? I always assume that magic is tricky to learn which is why mage-types are always so hard at work with their studies. If you were a farmer, would you be able to spend loads of time and money learning how to start a campfire, or would you carry on with your farming and light fires with more traditional methods?

It's certainly very interesting to think about.

Every player character starts out knowing a healing and flare spell. But that does not mean every other person in the world does as well. It is really just a question of how you choose to define the world. Magic can be something everyone can do, or only certain people born with a gift for it.

Likewise simple forms of magic such as lighting a candle or washing your hair might be as easy as a snap of your fingers. Or it could take days or months of study and practice. Higher magic might be just as easy, or tremendously more difficult.

The real question is how do you want it to be. It is your world. The moment you start writing you make it your own. Have it work however you want it to for your story.

The commonly useful spells, like healing and fire-lighting, you'd learn from your parents, because they'd be using them all the time. Maybe the one for freezing bugs out of the bedstraw, too.

The question of how someone born Atronach deals with it is interesting. Since you get a small amount of effect from eating an ingredient, they'd probably learn to eat something particular to help them heal themselves by spell, as well as finding plants that did it directly. Herbal cures versus professionally made potions is the same situation with or without magic. You pay more, you get more. Many will consider the difference isn't worth the cost.

And the games all provide a healing starter spell that's not OP, but you could tone that down a lot. It will heal a grazed knee, but not a broken bone, for example. Wounds heal faster with help, but not instantly.

DE, I really don't know what the Lore says about it, but I do know that your magic spells for the player (other than the fire-balll and rudimentary healing) are learned through practice and training; and you can buy spells but have to be a certain skill level in that magic discipline to actually use them.

On the NPC's, I have run across some that used no magic at all in their attack; and if you just injured them and went invisible and watched - most would heal themselves, but I've seen a couple just stand there with their lowered health bars. So either the developers didn't give them the spell to heal or they just weren't using it due to some unknown cause.

Off topic a bit, but one of the things I love about the magic in ESO is that it comes from the universe itself. Templars draw power and magic from the sun and sky; the Dragon Knights draw it from the "earth" (and using the spells causes them to temporarily become the earth they draw their power from - Britta looks like she is made of mud for several seconds after her spell is cast).

Nightblades draw their power from darkness, the shadows and the moon; and Sorcerers draw their power and magic from Daedric sources; they are true mages through and through.

It makes sense that magic is in the environment to be tapped by those who learn the secrets of how to release and use it. But that learning comes with time, practice, and at the cost of choosing where to lay your skill points, lol.





This post has been edited by mALX: Sep 29 2015, 04:11 PM

The lore doesn't make a definitive statement one way or the other. We do know that the Mages Guild was founded because certain members of the Psijic Order believed that magic should be accessible to the masses. One can extrapolate that to mean that, at one time at least, magic was only available to the nobility or those with the resources to afford it (like hazmick already said).

My advice piggy-backs on what 'Rosa has already said. Establish the framework of how magic works within the confines of your story and then stay consistent to that framework. As readers we are willing to go with you on just about anything as long as the rules remain constant.

Ah that's the thing. I like to stay as close to lore as possible. 100% if possible. It's terrible when Bethesda can't explain these simple things. But I suppose it's up to us to work with it like Subrosa said. mALX, I recall many NPC's not using magic at all so I had my doubts if it was intentional or just game programming. Most likely the latter. But thank you so much guys. Ghastly, Sub, MALX, Hazmick and Destri. You've given me great advice.

It would make sense that lowly farmers would not have too much access to magic lest they go after it in some local mage shop near town or something.

This post has been edited by Darkness Eternal: Oct 4 2015, 06:49 PM

So I'm debating something where I'd be curious to know what other people's opinions are and how they handle this in their own fic. It basically amounts to: how many unexpected plot twists are too many unexpected plot twists? At what point do you start foreshadowing more heavily/adding sections from other POVs in order to give people some knowledge of what's coming?

Currently, I write a very very limited point of view: Adryn, first person, from the perspective of the extremely near future (so no "little did I know then..." or "I would come to regret that..." except from the perspective of a few hours later, maximum). One of the side effects of this is that there are a significant number of things going on around her that she has absolutely no idea about until they hit her like an anvil.

Now - I love writing like this. I love doing very subtle foreshadowing (veiled by the fact that although Adryn is seeing it, she's not recognising the signs for what they are). I love knowing that there are things which I'm laying the foundations for now but which will almost certainly be extremely shocking and unexpected when they happen. A few of them are big enough that the overall tone of a number of scenes will change completely thanks to the new context, and knowing this gives me great, great joy.

But... there are a *lot* of these, and a lot of them will hit their pay-off in the very very distant future. (We're talking the second half of SitC or near the end of the MQ here.) I'm worried it might be too many unexpected very-subtly-foreshadowed plot twists for the readers, and I'm worried that the fic will come off as a lot more shallow and unplotted than it really is (in my opinion ) for quite a long time until things start tying together.

So I'm pondering doing an interlude chapter where we leave Adryn's point of view and see what's going on in the world around her and how she's set certain things into motion. The upside is that a number of plot twists will be a little more expected. (Also, getting to stretch my writing muscles - writing Adryn is a joy but it's still a very specific type of prose with very little deviation.) The downside is that... a number of plot twists will be a little more expected. One thing in particular would probably end up almost entirely laid bare (with significant implications for how readers view a number of future scenes). My spoiler-hating heart protests this idea, but my writerly instincts say it's necessary in order to make this part of the story as interesting as the part fifty-odd chapters down the line.

I'm not really looking for other people to tell me yea or nay (especially since I don't want to discuss specifics on the open forum because, well, spoilers! ) so much as wondering how other people deal with foreshadowing and surprise plot twists vs letting people in on some of the things brewing ahead of time.

It is impossible to give specifics on how much is too much. My basic rule of thumb is that there should be just enough information out there for the reader who is paying close attention to note. It doesn't have to be enough for them to figure out exactly what is going to happen. But at least enough for them to think "there is something else going on here."

Going back to my recent watching of the Hungry Games, in the final movie I began to wonder if the revolution was really going to install a peaceful, democratic regime, or just replace one dictator with another. Mostly that is because one character told another that a certain person now viewed her as a competitor rather than an ally. Then near the end something happens which clinches it.

I think this, but I'd add that personally I always think that the reader should know as much about what's going on as the protagonist(s).
Having said that, there are like a ton of variables: What viewpoint is the story from, what tense is it in, is the fourth wall being broken at any point, dramatic tension, and so forth...

I'm running out of things for Clark to do in Skyrim. After nearly ninety chapters, all done with someone else becoming Dragonborn, Arch-mage, destroyer of the Dark Brotherhood, etc. and some extensions to the game from mods I created, he's just about seen and done it all.

So who do I write about next? I have twenty draft episodes of Kothet, who's only just ready to go see the Greyeards, with his housecarl. A little less of my Orc lass who just built her own stronghold, and a page or two of Munchkin. Munchkin is a nice challenge, because I don't really know anyone to base her on.

I'll probably continue writing Kothet anyway. I've started his story on my web site already. I may do one here, and another at Haven, too.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jul 18 2016, 03:06 PM

I can understand if you want to wind down Clark - he's had a magnificent run across two games. I peeked at your intro stuff on Kothet and you instantly dissipated any concerns about how to give personality to a dremora. I like him already.

My advice? Write what moves your passions. That said, winding down Clark then sharing Kothet's tale with us would be grand!

Is it started already? I need a link, don't want to get behind on Ghastley's new stories; I'm still catching up on the Gweden Brothel!

Can someone send me a link?

Link is embedded in the words 'started his story'.

It's the mods that are the main focus, and writing the stories was done to help the mods make sense. Which is why Kothet is the prime candidate for this.

Oh! I responded to that off my email notice, it doesn't show embedded links, sorry about that!