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> Star Wars Thread 1: The Phantom Post, Star Wars
TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 26 2017, 04:38 AM
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Khajiit has always wondered...
What ensures that there is only ever two Sith Lords with the "Rule of Two"? Do they have every single Sith relic under lock and key? Weren't there Sith holocrons in the Jedis' custody as late as the destruction of the Jedi Temple by Vader?

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Jan 26 2017, 04:42 AM


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Uleni Athram
post Jan 26 2017, 05:40 AM
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QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jan 26 2017, 12:38 PM) *

Khajiit has always wondered...
What ensures that there is only ever two Sith Lords with the "Rule of Two"? Do they have every single Sith relic under lock and key? Weren't there Sith holocrons in the Jedis' custody as late as the destruction of the Jedi Temple by Vader?

Some of them were fake, like Sorzus Syn's (the original never left their possession). And I'd hazard a guess that the rest would contain knowledge so inconsequential that the Sith Lords basically just said, "Eh, let 'em have it." The Banite Order emphasized deceit after all, so I wouldn't put it past them. And even if some random darksider got his paws on one holocron of significant power, chances are a millennium worth of informants and spies would alert the true Sith and they'd be on his case faster than you could say, "Han Solo in Episode 7 tho."


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 26 2017, 05:57 AM
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QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 25 2017, 10:40 PM) *

Some of them were fake, like Sorzus Syn's (the original never left their possession). And I'd hazard a guess that the rest would contain knowledge so inconsequential that the Sith Lords basically just said, "Eh, let 'em have it." The Banite Order emphasized deceit after all, so I wouldn't put it past them. And even if some random darksider got his paws on one holocron of significant power, chances are a millennium worth of informants and spies would alert the true Sith and they'd be on his case faster than you could say, "Han Solo in Episode 7 tho."

But wasn't a big reason for Sidious building his palace over the ruins of the Jedi Temple so that he could excavate under it to find the ancient Sith Temple that the Jedi supposedly built on top of? If so, there's no telling what artifacts the Jedi had in their possession; the Jedi Temple was there for multiple millennia, right?


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Uleni Athram
post Jan 26 2017, 06:12 AM
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QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jan 26 2017, 01:57 PM) *

QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 25 2017, 10:40 PM) *

Some of them were fake, like Sorzus Syn's (the original never left their possession). And I'd hazard a guess that the rest would contain knowledge so inconsequential that the Sith Lords basically just said, "Eh, let 'em have it." The Banite Order emphasized deceit after all, so I wouldn't put it past them. And even if some random darksider got his paws on one holocron of significant power, chances are a millennium worth of informants and spies would alert the true Sith and they'd be on his case faster than you could say, "Han Solo in Episode 7 tho."

But wasn't a big reason for Sidious building his palace over the ruins of the Jedi Temple so that he could excavate under it to find the ancient Sith Temple that the Jedi supposedly built on top of? If so, there's no telling what artifacts the Jedi had in their possession; the Jedi Temple was there for multiple millennia, right?

Isn't that part of the newer canon, introduced in err... Lords of the Sith? I haven't really got around to reading the 'new' canon yet, so forgive me if I bumble in my reaction at this. I mean, if the Jedi temple really was constructed over the ruins (?) of Sith temple then yeah, there might be some artifacts lying there.

Hmm...


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 26 2017, 06:39 AM
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QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 25 2017, 11:12 PM) *

QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jan 26 2017, 01:57 PM) *

QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 25 2017, 10:40 PM) *

Some of them were fake, like Sorzus Syn's (the original never left their possession). And I'd hazard a guess that the rest would contain knowledge so inconsequential that the Sith Lords basically just said, "Eh, let 'em have it." The Banite Order emphasized deceit after all, so I wouldn't put it past them. And even if some random darksider got his paws on one holocron of significant power, chances are a millennium worth of informants and spies would alert the true Sith and they'd be on his case faster than you could say, "Han Solo in Episode 7 tho."

But wasn't a big reason for Sidious building his palace over the ruins of the Jedi Temple so that he could excavate under it to find the ancient Sith Temple that the Jedi supposedly built on top of? If so, there's no telling what artifacts the Jedi had in their possession; the Jedi Temple was there for multiple millennia, right?

Isn't that part of the newer canon, introduced in err... Lords of the Sith? I haven't really got around to reading the 'new' canon yet, so forgive me if I bumble in my reaction at this. I mean, if the Jedi temple really was constructed over the ruins (?) of Sith temple then yeah, there might be some artifacts lying there.

Hmm...
I read that some where. I'll see if I can round up a source.

*update* Can't find it so please disregard my post about the Jedi Temple being built on top of a Sith temple.

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Jan 26 2017, 07:19 AM


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Callidus Thorn
post Jan 26 2017, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Jan 26 2017, 12:55 AM) *

QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jan 23 2017, 09:09 PM) *

QUOTE(SubRosa @ Jan 23 2017, 04:51 PM) *

QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jan 23 2017, 05:43 PM) *

QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Jan 23 2017, 02:59 PM) *

I'm cynical, so I'm gonna guess that they're going to continue playing it safe, and this one'll be a mix of Empire Strikes Back and KotOR. They've already set up enough to support the latter. I'm gonna guess at Rey being captured by what's-his-mask, tortured, turned to dark side. Luke dragged out of hiding to free her. And we're gonna learn that he's been doing what Revan was supposedly doing; out looking for the mysterious enemy behind the threat.

Oh gawd. Khajiit will be pretty upset if Kyle gets a Sith name and it's Darth Revan.

Well, his real name is Ben Solo. Kylo Ren is his Sith name. Or is Dark-Sider name. Snoke does not appear to be a Sith (and I hope he is not), but rather some other stripe of evil force user.

Oh yeah this one totally agrees with hoping Snoke (still don't really like this name) isn't a Sith but rather a part of some other Darkside organization. The Sith need to chill for a while.

So, with Sidious dead and Vader redeemed to the light and dead, who would be left to carry on Sith traditions?

Do'h! I completely missed your post!

You think Snooki is a bad name for the big bad guy? But the Jersey Shore is so menacing and spine chilling! laugh.gif I am not sure which is worse, that or Sheev. Who ever is naming Star Wars people these days needs to be fired.

I suppose Ben/Kylo would be the person to carry on the Sith legacy, in tribute to Vader. After all, he obviously admires Vader, and appears to be trying to pattern himself off Vader. But he would still need a Sith to teach him the specifics of Sith philosophy. Otherwise he's just an angry guy using the force. That would mean Snooki would have to be a Sith as well. I hope not, because I think they are a dead horse that has been beaten far too many times already. The same goes for the Jedi. It is high time for something new. But with JJ Abrams in charge, I am sure that will never happen.


He will be. The Jedi vs Sith conflict weighed far too heavily in the EU, so going for Dark Jedi would be a step down from the Original Trilogy and the prequels. And we've already seen some them one-up Vader in TFA. Vader deflected blaster bolts with his hand in The Empire Strikes Back but what's-his-mask(I find it far too amusing referring to him like that laugh.gif ) froze a blaster bolt in mid-air. He'll be a Sith even more powerful/badass than Palpatine(flip a coin to figure which way they'll go), because Jedi vs Sith is playing it safe in the Star Wars universe.

And remember; with the EU having been disavowed, officially there's only been one Jedi vs Sith conflict, so they likely don't consider it a dead horse.


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Darkness Eternal
post Jan 26 2017, 04:55 PM
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I think JJ purposely put it in the movie that the time of the Sith was over, at least in the first movie for now.

"I’ve seen evil take many forms: the Sith, the Empire, and now the First Order." Maz Kanata.

Basically, the Sith returned and formed the Empire, and now that they are gone the First Order took their place. Anakin wiped out the last Sith when he killed Sidious and, in a way, Vader.

Unless Kylo Ren breaks up the Knights of Ren and announces himself as a new Sith Lord, I don't see them returning.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 26 2017, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Jan 26 2017, 05:31 AM) *

And remember; with the EU having been disavowed, officially there's only been one Jedi vs Sith conflict, so they likely don't consider it a dead horse.

There again, who is going to teach him the ways of the Sith? If Snoke, then that would make him a Sith or at least someone who is knowledgeable enough in their ways to train another Sith Lord in which case he still might as well be Sith. Khajiit thinks if they go this route, it might would be cool for "whatshismask" to go on an expedition to Moraband/Korriban and commune with the spirits of the ancient Dark Lords. Not sure they would do this though, given the supposed reason for cutting out the Revan scene in The Clone Wars.


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Callidus Thorn
post Jan 26 2017, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Jan 26 2017, 03:55 PM) *

I think JJ purposely put it in the movie that the time of the Sith was over, at least in the first movie for now.

"I’ve seen evil take many forms: the Sith, the Empire, and now the First Order." Maz Kanata.

Basically, the Sith returned and formed the Empire, and now that they are gone the First Order took their place. Anakin wiped out the last Sith when he killed Sidious and, in a way, Vader.

Unless Kylo Ren breaks up the Knights of Ren and announces himself as a new Sith Lord, I don't see them returning.


The prequels establish that the Sith were in hiding for a thousand years before Palpatine made his move, so I think they could manage a few decades of secrecy. Especially if they've got a force they can hide behind.

QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jan 26 2017, 03:57 PM) *

QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Jan 26 2017, 05:31 AM) *

And remember; with the EU having been disavowed, officially there's only been one Jedi vs Sith conflict, so they likely don't consider it a dead horse.

There again, who is going to teach him the ways of the Sith? If Snoke, then that would make him a Sith or at least someone who is knowledgeable enough in their ways to train another Sith Lord in which case he still might as well be Sith. Khajiit thinks if they go this route, it might would be cool for "whatshismask" to go on an expedition to Moraband/Korriban and commune with the spirits of the ancient Dark Lords. Not sure they would do this though, given the supposed reason for cutting out the Revan scene in The Clone Wars.


The simplest thing to do would be to have Darth Plagueis' spirit/echo/Force-whatever loitering around and training someone in the wake of Palpatine's death. Considering that Kenobi stuck around for some time, and what Plagueis could do with the Force, they've pretty much got everything they need for it.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 26 2017, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Jan 26 2017, 11:26 AM) *

The simplest thing to do would be to have Darth Plagueis' spirit/echo/Force-whatever loitering around and training someone in the wake of Palpatine's death. Considering that Kenobi stuck around for some time, and what Plagueis could do with the Force, they've pretty much got everything they need for it.

As messed up as Snoke is, this one wouldn't be surprised if Snoke pulled off the Star Wars equivalent of Lichdom.

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Jan 26 2017, 06:42 PM


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Callidus Thorn
post Jan 26 2017, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jan 26 2017, 05:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Jan 26 2017, 11:26 AM) *

The simplest thing to do would be to have Darth Plagueis' spirit/echo/Force-whatever loitering around and training someone in the wake of Palpatine's death. Considering that Kenobi stuck around for some time, and what Plagueis could do with the Force, they've pretty much got everything they need for it.

As messed up as Snoke is, this one wouldn't be surprised if Snoke pulled off the Star Wars equivalent of Lichdom.


Well, in the EU Palpatine came back from the dead...


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SubRosa
post Jan 26 2017, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 26 2017, 12:12 AM) *

Isn't that part of the newer canon, introduced in err... Lords of the Sith? I haven't really got around to reading the 'new' canon yet, so forgive me if I bumble in my reaction at this. I mean, if the Jedi temple really was constructed over the ruins (?) of Sith temple then yeah, there might be some artifacts lying there.

That is true. I read Lords of the Sith a few weeks ago, and in it Palpatine wants to spend more time uncovering the secrets of the ancient Sith Temple buried beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. That is why he was so hands-of with the day to day running of the Empire. He didn't want to spend his time being the administrator of a million worlds. He was after what he considered true power, that of the Sith Temple. He even mused that the ruins of the ancient Sith temple slowly poisoned the Jedi order over the centuries.

There are also all kinds of rumors about Snooki. One is that he is Darth Plageius reborn/resurrected/reanimated. Another is that he is Palpatine. I still think he's from the Jersey Shore...

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jan 26 2017, 11:55 PM


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Uleni Athram
post Jan 27 2017, 02:24 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Jan 27 2017, 07:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 26 2017, 12:12 AM) *

Isn't that part of the newer canon, introduced in err... Lords of the Sith? I haven't really got around to reading the 'new' canon yet, so forgive me if I bumble in my reaction at this. I mean, if the Jedi temple really was constructed over the ruins (?) of Sith temple then yeah, there might be some artifacts lying there.

That is true. I read Lords of the Sith a few weeks ago, and in it Palpatine wants to spend more time uncovering the secrets of the ancient Sith Temple buried beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. That is why he was so hands-of with the day to day running of the Empire. He didn't want to spend his time being the administrator of a million worlds. He was after what he considered true power, that of the Sith Temple. He even mused that the ruins of the ancient Sith temple slowly poisoned the Jedi order over the centuries.

There are also all kinds of rumors about Snooki. One is that he is Darth Plageius reborn/resurrected/reanimated. Another is that he is Palpatine. I still think he's from the Jersey Shore...


rollinglaugh.gif

Inb4 he gets punched in the face by Rey in a nightclub.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 27 2017, 02:35 AM
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QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 26 2017, 07:24 PM) *

QUOTE(SubRosa @ Jan 27 2017, 07:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Jan 26 2017, 12:12 AM) *

Isn't that part of the newer canon, introduced in err... Lords of the Sith? I haven't really got around to reading the 'new' canon yet, so forgive me if I bumble in my reaction at this. I mean, if the Jedi temple really was constructed over the ruins (?) of Sith temple then yeah, there might be some artifacts lying there.

That is true. I read Lords of the Sith a few weeks ago, and in it Palpatine wants to spend more time uncovering the secrets of the ancient Sith Temple buried beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. That is why he was so hands-of with the day to day running of the Empire. He didn't want to spend his time being the administrator of a million worlds. He was after what he considered true power, that of the Sith Temple. He even mused that the ruins of the ancient Sith temple slowly poisoned the Jedi order over the centuries.

There are also all kinds of rumors about Snooki. One is that he is Darth Plageius reborn/resurrected/reanimated. Another is that he is Palpatine. I still think he's from the Jersey Shore...


rollinglaugh.gif

Inb4 he gets punched in the face by Rey in a nightclub.

ohmy.gif
rollinglaugh.gif


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Kane
post Jan 27 2017, 02:16 PM
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I personally hope I never hear the word Sith in VII-IX.


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Kane
post Jan 27 2017, 06:08 PM
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Does Tarkin ever figure out that Vader is Anakin? Just something I wondered about after seeing Tarkin in TCW.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 27 2017, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE(Cain @ Jan 27 2017, 11:08 AM) *

Does Tarkin ever figure out that Vader is Anakin? Just something I wondered about after seeing Tarkin in TCW.

That's a good question. He certainly knows that Vader was once a Jedi because of his comment "You are all that is left of their religion.". Unless he was lumping all force users into one group. Here's another question: given Tarkin's aforementioned comment, did he know that Palpatine was a force user?


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Kane
post Jan 27 2017, 08:00 PM
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He might have been lumping them together, I'd guess. I wouldn't be surprised if Tarkin didn't know, to be honest. Palps probably kept that a secret even after the 'coup' of the Jedi and his rise to ultimate power.


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Uleni Athram
post Jan 27 2017, 08:45 PM
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I think this is a source of contention back in the old EU; some people write it off as though almost everyone knows Vader was once Skywalker (which begs its own series of questions), while others go for him as a Diabolus Ex-Machina that just... Appeared out of nowhere. Same with Chancy Papa and his connection to force, I'd hazard a guess.


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post Jan 27 2017, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE(Cain @ Jan 27 2017, 06:08 PM) *

Does Tarkin ever figure out that Vader is Anakin? Just something I wondered about after seeing Tarkin in TCW.

Yes he came to the conclusion in the book "Tarkin."

Excerpt from the book:

QUOTE
Nothing about Vader seemed natural-not his towering height, his deep voice, his antiquated diction-yet despite those qualities and the mask and respirator, Tarkin believed him to be more man than machine. Although he had clearly twisted the powers of the Force to his own dark purposes, Vader's innate strength was undeniable. His contained rage was genuine, as well, and not simply the result of some murderous cyberprogram. But the quality that made him most human was the fierce dedication he demonstrated to the Emperor.

It was that genuflecting obedience, the steadfast devotion to execute whatever task the Emperor assigned, that had given rise to so many rumors about Vader: that he was a counterpart to the Confederacy's General Grievous the Emperor had been holding in reserve; that he was an augmented human or near-human who had been trained or had trained himself in the ancient dark arts of the Sith; that he was nothing more than a monster fashioned in some clandestine laboratory. Many believed that the Emperor's willingness to grant so much authority to such a being heralded the shape of things to come, for it was beyond dispute that Vader was the Empire's first terror weapon.

Tarkin didn't always agree with Vader's methods for dealing with those who opposed the Empire, but he held the Dark Lord in high esteem, and he hoped Vader felt the same toward him. Very early on in their partnership-soon after both had been introduced to the secret mobile battle station-Tarkin grew convinced that Vader knew him much better than he let on, and that behind the bulging lenses of his face mask, whatever remained of Vader's human eyes regarded him with clear recognition. More than anything else it was those initial feelings that had provided Tarkin with his first suspicion as to Vader's identity. Later, observing the rapport the Dark Lord shared with the stormtroopers who supported him, and the technique he displayed in wielding his crimson lightsaber, Tarkin grew more and more convinced that his suspicions were right.

Vader might very well be Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker, whom Tarkin had fought beside during the Clone Wars, and for whom he had developed a grudging appreciation.


This post has been edited by Darkness Eternal: Jan 27 2017, 09:07 PM


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And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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