I think different people have different ideas of what is an RPG. I too think that levelling up is not the core issue. But it isn't just levelling up that this mod removes - it also removes any differences between classes or races, which means that all NPCs are now the same. This is what removes the role playing, I think, unless I read it incorrectly somehow. Obviously, I have no intention of actually trying it...

If I wanted to play a hack and slash adventure, there is no shortage of games like that. I could just play Viking for example.

Yep, we all do. I like to break it down to its literal core. Some gamers think that without constant dice-rolls for instance (i.e. Daggerfall or Morrowind), a game is not an RPG. For me, it's the actual fact that the entire game is focused on whatever role we choose for our character. Or even better: whatever role our character chooses for him/herself.

I can roll a character who does nothing but picks flowers and ingredients all day (and I have done this!) and never engages in combat. Never does quests. Never steps outside of her little realm of existence. In that situation, the actual game is focused on just this character, picking flowers, and selling them at market. That is the role being played. Nothing to do with Gates or Dragons, nothing to do with saving the world. Who's to say I'm not still playing the game, right? Because playing the game with her means getting into her role. Role Playing Game.

What does RPG mean to you?



Oh my gosh. To me it's like What's the point? Especially if diversity is also being removed. I'd be so disappointed and bored.


Ha ha you're right. I could go back to Tomb Raider.

This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 3 2021, 03:35 PM

I had to think real hard about what you are saying here... dice-rolling? Oh, wait... I think it might be an American thing. We played different kinds of RPGs as children - each player chose their actions freely. Imagine like chess but the figures are animated and represent characters. There were rules of course, but within the rules you were free to decide what to do. And the others were free to react to your actions in any way they wanted (within the rules).

Oh, now I remember - sometimes we'd have external events done with dice-rolling, like for example a massive earthquake or a tornado and such. But never personal actions.


Exactly. But if you remove the difference between the classes and races, all roles become pretty much the same. In particular, the AI of NPCs relies on those class and race characteristics to determine behaviour, so I wonder what happens when this is made the same. Do they all react in the same way now? That would be boring.

You play a role taken on by a particular character, but that character does not exist in vacuum - it relates to other characters in the game. If all the characters are essentially the same apart from their looks, do you even get different roles? I wonder.

But then again, the author of that mod does state immediately that with this mod enabled, Oblivion stops being an RPG.

A note on performance. There is any number of mods that improve performance of the original Oblivion allowing it to take advantage of modern hardware and software. They still don't make Oblivion multi-threaded, but they do improve graphics a lot. Well, whenever I tried any of those "Oblivion for Win10" enhancements, it invariably got my Oblivion to crash. Why is that?

That's because my Oblivion is from GOG. It already has such modifications built-in, it is meant for modern computers. So when you try to modify it further, you get a conflict. I hear that the Steam version is similar.

Bottom line: if you get your Oblivion from GOG or Steam, you get more than just the original game. It is modernised, so you don't need to bother with performance mods. All other mods that I tried, worked as intended.

Cool, that's good to know about GoG or Steam versions, Lena.



Sort of. Dice rolling is what is done in a lot of old tabletop RPGs such as Dungeons & Dragons, but I'm sure there were European table-RPGs as well. I'm not sure of their names, maybe SubRosa would know.

Rolling dice was necessary because if our character swung a weapon at an enemy, there had to be a way of knowing if the weapon connected or missed. Or if the weapon did double or triple damage. Or if it got dropped. Or broke. All of this was simulated via dice, as we all sat around the table (literally, we'd be with our friends).

The early Bethesda games. (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind) simulated all of this as well, but arguably in a bad way. Like, we'd see our character hit the enemy, but the game would roll invisible dice in micro-seconds, so our "hit" could register as a miss. All of this was based upon our character's skill. There was more of a separation between player and character skill, you see. This is why some gamers regard the older games as "true" RPGs, while Oblivion and Skyrim are merely "action" RPGs. Bah!

But the newer games still use dice rolls sometimes. When we make a Speech check, for instance. Or try to open a lock. Not during combat anymore, though.



It just sounds incredibly dull to me!

This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 9 2021, 02:03 PM

Oh my gosh, I never knew this is how it works with tabletop RPGs! We didn't play that way when I was growing up. Our tabletop games were not RPGs, so when we role-played, it was in real life, like theatre. So you'd pick a plastic sword and swing it at a "real" monster (your friend making a scary face), etc. No dice-throwing but real skill that determined whether your weapon connected or not. I suppose that was not a "real" RPG then but merely an "action" RPG!

I had a really nice red broadsword, for example. Hollow and light, easy to swing. I always dragged it around with me (you never know when you might come upon a monster), and after all that exposure to sunlight, it faded to pink... Those were the days!

This post has been edited by Lena Wolf: Nov 9 2021, 02:31 PM

Lena, it sounds like you were LARPing. I did that once, and it was fun. But the laziness in me much preferred sitting around a table rolling dice and drinking warm diet pepsi.

We were young kids when we role-played like that, may be between the ages of 3 and 12... then we grew up. We did play board games, they were just not RPGs.

My brother and I and some friends went to a medieval reenactment sort of game like you did. It was also real-life, out in the woods somewhere, and we had to make our weapons and armor out of duct tape, foam, and PVC pipe. It was really fun, but they had some dumb rules. If somebody just touched you with their weapon, you were "dead" for instance. Then again, I guess this rule was made so that people didn't start bashing each other until the duct tape started flying around. But it was fun to run around and stuff.

I have a vague memory of some rogue chasing me through the forest, and when he finally caught up to me he touched me with his foam/duct tape sword and immediately said "HEY, I TOUCHED YOU! YOU'RE DEAD!!!" when I didn't immediately fall over. Aw, those were the days...

Well, this was my childhood, day in, day out.

Our re-enactment festivals use steel weapons and steel armour. Nobody dies but bruises are common... Could you wear 40lb of armour all day? And joust on a horseback with a real lance? You'd need to train for that first... I was only watching!

Nice that sounds really fun, Lena. That's as close as it gets to our games. Only thing missing are fireballs and imps flying round.

No styrofoam here...

Halleluja!!

Every girl should have one.

They're all dead! Falanu would love it.

What do you expect after falling from such height? Besides, they can't run away now. Falanu's got a point.

Just when I thought things were getting better on the Nexus. Well at least they're clothed.

If they were not, they would not have had pockets, so you would have had nothing to loot. Unless you are Falanu, they have no other use.

Lena is back in Cyrodiil and I decided to liven things up a bit and downloaded this: Cats and Rats. Sounds like fun!

Well... we certainly got lots of rats! Proper small rats, not the Champion of Cyrodiil sized ones. And they are everywhere! But cats? Nope, none to be seen. Which explains the rats.

Oh wait! In the Jerall View in Bruma we finally meet a tabby graciously walking up and down the dining room completely ignoring the rats. Hafid shouldn't feed him, I'm telling you.

But now the place is getting busy (Crowded cities redone), many people are having dinner, everyone watching the rats - who wants them up their skirt or trouser leg? No one. Suddenly one of the Imperial Forresters spots the cat, jumps up and attacks it! Kills it! Everyone stands there gasping for a moment, then they settle down and resume dinner, still watching the rats.

Is there anything wrong with this story?

I think I'll try just cats next. Cats are nice. Who needs rats?

This post has been edited by Lena Wolf: Nov 24 2021, 09:18 PM

Sounds like some mod shopping going on, fo sho. And some wacky AI. No, eradicate the rats, not the cat!

I have a cats mod in both Oblivion and Skyrim. Can't recall the name of the Oblivion one. Pretty sure it was made by Emma though.

Edit: and I agree, we definitely don't need more rats! It's always rats for the new Associates, sure, that makes sense. But otherwise...

This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 25 2021, 12:46 AM