this is deep




it really is

I'll even go further than kindred. I'll admit I'm a socialist, I don't believe in free, private enterprize that has more rights than people, I think enterprize needs to be heavily regulated, I think government should be put back in the community with the central government doing mostly the progressive things like determining environmental policy, human rights, all that stuff, but people should be allowed to run the actual way everything goes on a community level.

I'll go even further, I don't hate Bush, I believe I'm connected to all humans, from Bush to Osama Bin Laden and to Hitler, and I don't hate any of these people, but I think they're radicals who chose murder as their path. I think the current United States government is run by a bunch of fat pigs who run the country like a business and are only interested in what chunk they can take out of it.

I think the country was founded by fat pigs. When the proletariat rose up against England it was because England was trying to enforce a monopoly over them. It was economical oppression, and the people decided to rebel against the rich in general, but a group of rich people decided to use this and say, "Don't raid our houses, we're on your side, we're trying to help you, go raid their houses."

I think this country was founded on deceit, the founding fathers were men only interested in protecting their own assets, so like any other rich people, they simply adjusted their stances. I think it was made prosperous by bloodshed, with ruthless indian murderers going on rampages until all the west was settled.

Furthermore, the good ideals the country was founded on are being completed ignored by those in power. They don't give a crap about privacy, if they did they wouldn't scan emails for subversive language or tap phones without warrants. They don't care about protecting the people from big business, which was an underlying factor in the revolution. Big businesses stomp over the proletariat every single day. It's just horrifying to think that everything has gotten so freaking bad.

So, as a hard-core liberal, people tend to ask me (when I go to places that have these types of people). "If you don't like it you just can get out!" (I know that's not a question but they probably don't know the difference so who cares.)

My answer is this: Why would I take my tail in hand and flee from a problem? I was born here, this is where I make my stand. I can't change the world from Canada. This is a country founded on protest, founded on people who were sick and tired of being oppressed by big-businesses and royal investors who sent their armies to protect the business. This is a country that's progress is based on dissent, that thrives on dissent. Dissent is a sign of a healthy democracy, and if you don't like it, you can get out.

I think everyone should remember that this country(USA) always will walk the middle line. Everyone is allowed to voice their opinion and opinions on the way things should work vary greatly. Every opinion is just as valid and correct as every other persons. People see all the political fighting and think things are so bad here, when in truth that is our biggest strength. It is this openness to both left and right ideals that keep the country from imploding and destroying itself. Too far to the right and you get a Dictatorship or Theocracy and too far to the left brings economic ruin and stagnation.

For me personally.. I am far left and far right on different issues. As far as having to totally agree with what the government is doing to support them.. I hate to tell you it will never happen. They will never agree with one person's opinion on the way things should be run and to be honest I am glad of it.

Neela, i think that is a very good answer. I agree with you very much so. That is our strength and it will eventually improve once laws get so specific that there's nothing left to do.

Personally i really hate government. I wish it was like the old days where kings ruled, i mean sure there were bad kings, but then there were also good kings. There were less arguements that's for sure, and if you didn't like the king, you could rise in revolt, or go to the country over. Because back then there were hardly any allies. It was more free, you didn't have to worry about as much because the government sometimes was not even in your area except on a literal map. If you didn't want to pay taxes you could run into the mountains. No one would hunt you, cause they wouldn't find out. And you could still live your life without all this crap

Personally i don't like any news. Sure they tell you whats going on, but every morning? Thats too much i say. People are more worried now then they were back then because they know so much. Personally i believe ignorance is bliss. Live your life the way you want to, and you shouldnt force anything on anyone. It really doesn't work politically (religiously is different however). I've really never heard of anyone who suddenly saw the light and became a liberal or vise-versa. So i never really got political arguements, except between the people actually making the laws.

I mean take no offense Doomed. But would you moving to canada really effect anything here, besides the ones you love who would miss you?

I never want laws to get that specific. Then, your freedom is gone, and every aspect of your life is controlled. Hell, it's already sstarting. Look at the Patriot Act.



Why hate government? Is is essential. Anaarchy would never work, despite what anyone says. It's like they say; one bad apple can ruin the barrel. And being able to dodge taxes and such only comes from lack of technology, not form of government.



In my opinion, ignorance is just that; ignorance. Just because something is bad, doesn't mean that we should be shielded from it. For example, if my mother died, I would want to know. I wouldn't want people to keep me away from the truth, even if the truth was something I didn't really want to hear. Political discussions are no different than any other argument; you're just showing your point of view, not necessarily changing anyone else's.



He said he wasn't going to go to canada....

I didnt say anarchy, and i said living your life personally. Plus you're doing what i just said, arguing.

I don't quite know what you're getting at when you say 'living your life personally', because I don't see how government stops you from doing so.

You're arguing right here with me. And arguing against government still qualifies as participating in a poilitical discussion.

You do realise im playing devils advocate right?

No, it won't ever happen. But the pledge of allegiance doesn't say anything about, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, unless America becomes an evil nation of undead bovine." There are no conditions in the pledge. Its unconditional. Thus, I can't pledge allegiance to any government, ever. Thus, no reciting the PoA for me. Unless, maybe, if it were run by me, but hell, I wouldn't want to live in a country that had me as a leader.


So are you. Oh, another reason I don't want to move to Canada. Canada has it's own political problems. In fact, I believe their liberal government was recently (as in less than a year ago) was brought under fire by an opposing party (or ALL opposing parties) for being extremely corrupt. Of course, my source of Canadian political news is Digital Purgatory, so I'm not completely sure of all the facts. Rummage through some of the comics there, you'll find the ones I'm talking about.


Doomed-I suppose I can agree with some of what you said. Specifically the points about business, and about government at the local level. And I, too, don't hate Bush, but for a much different reason. I don't hate anybody, (again like you) but not because I feel like I'm connected to them. I don't feel that way, I doubt I ever will. I just have a hard time building up strong emotions. The only emotions that come easily to me are melancholy, pity (a small form of pity, usually coupled with sarcasm and humor), amusement (weak amusement, usually involving laughing at someone), irritation, and minor depression. (as in, enough to stop caring about anything that isn't vital, not enough to cut myself) Anything stronger than those takes is something that doesn't come easily and naturally, thus, I don't hate anything, only minor dislike due to them being a cause of irritation. So, while I agree with your oppinions to a degree, I come to similar oppinions from a different perspective.

Florodine of Hlaalu-
Yes, this is deep. We're up to our heinies in deep things.
And there's no need to hate governement. As Dantrag said, goverment, at some form or another, is essential. Even if it's only small governements like Doomed's (is it just me, or does that sound funny when yoou say it out loud?) idea, they're still necesary. The only way government wouldn't be necesary is if you can find some method of getting rid of all the assholes in the world. (which would likely require a government )
And ignorance is bliss, perhaps. But bliss is too strong for me, I'll take knowledge and the minor depression that comes with it instead. Ignorance may cause one to be happy, but knowledge allows one to survive. And which is the natural goal of most living creatures? (Goth kids excepted) Survival. To survive and flourish, you need to know things about your surroundings. If someone was sneaking into my house to kill me, yes, ignorance would be bliss, and I'd die happy. If I knew that the person was coming, I'd be able to do something about it. Knowledge is important, as long as you remember to take your fair share of bliss along the raod.

No, I didn't, but it's still irrelevant. You argue a point, I argue against it if I don't agree. That's the whole point in being devil's advocate, to make an argument, correct?

Oh yes i know as i was saying i was playing devils advocate to see reactions to it

I agree with dantrag, I have to side with Plato here, the only evil in the world is ignorance, the only good is knowledge.

Now, I know you have your right to opinion, but I must say that when that question comes up in debate, I cringe. If people left the beutiful country that they were born in and believed in for so long every time that the government changed, I don't think America could be the country it aspires to be. America was founded on the freedoms and rights that the people deserved, and if people who are anti-bush left just because of a change of government and gave up the fight, would that make the patriots efforts worthless? I believe that the reason people don't pack up is because they love America and want to stand up for the way it should be.

Just realized, guys; no political discussions in the coffee shop. We should probably move this to the Parliament thread.

And congrats to Lonewolf for his 'promotion'.

Thanks Dantrag

ah you lucky dog (wolf whatever) but yes congratulations

I tried that most my younger life, it's the reason I'm so reclusive this very day. There are few I can stand the presence of and most of them don't live near me anymore (or I don't live near them specificly). The only human contact I do make is "yes" "no" and "go away" and I deplore even going that far.

It has gotten pretty bad though, for the very same reasons I don't often buy things. Not just because I have no money, but that I can't stand talking with the clerk. If they try to talk back I just sort of stare at them in horror and pitifuly try to make a response.

"So... catch that SeaHawks game?"

"I... I don't.. like sports..."

"Really? 's a damn shame. A kid like you should like sports"

At this point I've grown curious

"Why's that?"

"So you don't end up a skinny lil..."

Noticing I'm built like a toothpick the clerk (probably aging from 20-40) slowly tapers off his statement and continues his work.

"That'll be 2.49"

This post has been edited by Intestinal Chaos: Jan 11 2006, 05:15 PM

Really? What fun. One thing...don't. If you have a point to share, then by all means share it. Playing "devils advocate" with the intention of provoking argument/responses is fine, but it aint fine in here, as you well know. There are other threads available to do that in, so please feel free to move over to them for that purpose, ok?



Interesting, but to be honest I always liked the quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". In other words for those with the knowledge not to use it. And no, I'm not playing "devils advocate"

I wasn't saying I agree with the quote, but I do agree with Plato, blissful ignorance isn't. The best way to be sure you're doing good, and I understand the universe doesn't take sides, but good in a generally social way, is to know as much as you can about everything. But all I measure in life are actions, that's all that really matters, not intent, not point of view, not political opinion. Stalin and Hitler are the same to me, because their actions were the same even if they came from two different places. Bush and Saddam Hussein are the exact same to me, intent means nothing to me. In that sense I agree with that quote.

Whoa, was that recent or was I neglagent to my wolf friend? Congrats, you just accomplished my dream .