I swear, most everyone on the main forums are so whiny. Like a pack of vultures they just circle and look for a weakness and then *BAMF* they pick at it and pick at it, wether it's a problem or not.

I swear, most everyone on the main forums are so whiny. Like a pack of vultures they just circle and look for a weakness and then *BAMF* they pick at it and pick at it, wether it's a problem or not.

I assume that it's this just the XBoX version. I assume they do include them on the PC. Am I correct?

I'm not sure but I would assume that they aren't included in either version of the game.

They are a form of shadow maps, though the technique we’re using currently differs from the one we showed at E3. Our initial shadow tests were done using cube maps on every surface, but after extensive testing we found them to be too slow overall to use as a general solution. We have switched to doing single shadow maps directed at characters. The system supports full self-shadowing and we do multiple samples and depth comparisons to provide a soft-shadowing effect. The net effect we’ve achieved is a system general enough to handle Oblivion’s diverse environments while still providing great visuals and good performance.

The shadows I talked about in the Beyond3D interview (http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/oblivion).  Only characters get shadows now. 

Other than that, no major changes have taken place in either the renderer or art assets that would affect quality of visuals on a global scale, so if you think it looks worse then it's an effect of video compression or low settings (or you've just been looking at Oblivion stuff way too long )

Sorry if I was vague.  Characters cast shadows on everything.  Objects don't cast, they just receive shadows from characters.  The exception is the trees - tree canopies cast shadows down on everything like you see in the screenshots.

No more universal shadows.  They're all exact representations of the character.  And they're soft shadows, if that wasn't clear.  And they stretch and fade over distances.

Shadows are something that have to be tested throughout the entire world to make sure the system handles every area possible. The system we're using now differs 100% from the one we were using. If we wanted to maintain two completely distinct shadow systems, we'd effectively double our workload as far as testing and bug-fixing goes. That would be what you would call "not smart."

Take a look at this picture.

Every piece of food, every plate, bowl, cup, fork, knife, the books, scroll, soul gems, gold coins, and winebottles, plus everything on the shelves and table in the background, is an object that you can pick up. You can read the books, you can eat the food or combine it to make potions, drink the wine, or sell all of it. Or you can take it somewhere else and put it in a pile. You can drag the items around, you can use telekinesis to manipulate them, you can hit them with your weapon, or you can fire an area effect spell at them and they'll all go flying.

OR, we could change it so that the objects are static -- there's no interaction, they're fixed in place. Instead of an apple in a bowl for example, you'd see a "bowl of apples" object that you could never move, that would act as a container and always looked full of apples even if you took all of the apples out. Either that or there's nothing there but static, non-interactive objects, and we only allow you to place items from your inventory into containers and not into the world. Because that's the type of thing we'd have to do -- on PC or on Xbox 360 -- to allow everything to cast shadows of their own.

So which is more important to you? Shadows on everything, or lots of stuff to interact with, take, drop, use, buy or sell?

You've already HAD a straight answer. Read this interview with Gavin at Beyond3D.

Here's the relevant quote:

Pay particular attention to the part in blue.

Shadows... Wow, I don't think Gavin's quote could have gotten more misconstrued and downright mangled. Hiding... in your own shadow? How would that even work? Guys, come on. No, you do not hide in your own shadow, and yes there are still shadows, and yes the light levels still effect stealth. And playing a stealth character is really, really fun... Seems to be one of the most popular character archetypes for the Bethesda devs when they playtest.

I assume that it's this just the XBoX version. I assume they do include them on the PC. Am I correct?

1. Why does everyone automatically assume things were changed to accomodate the 360 version?

2. The shadow rendering has changed. It is not the same system used in the E3 demo. It is not possible to leave options in the .ini for a system that doesn't exist.

After thinkin about something I noticed...

NOBODY COMPLAINED ABOUT THIS BEFORE IT WAS ANNOUNCED.

Remember those old screenshots? It was so great! The pretty tables with swords and food. None of those objects have shadows, and nobody complained, we were too busy looking and marveling. Then a dev says that no objects have shadows (Which they didnt in older screens) people start freakigng out.

You know, nobody complained before the announcement.

I swear, most everyone on the main forums are so whiny. Like a pack of vultures they just circle and look for a weakness and then *BAMF* they pick at it and pick at it, wether it's a problem or not.