I wonder whether the disappearance will be explained to us in Oblivion.

And by in Oblivion, I actually mean in it. If you're ever noticed whilst playing Morrowind that Daedra Lords always have Dwaven weapons then you'll understand why I think the Dwarfs might just be in Oblivion.

I doubt it, Besthesta has always been vague about previus events. Leaving it to you to decide what really happened. Besides, all of the Daedra have their own plane of Oblivion to rule, so there is a very slim chance of seeing a Dwemer in Oblivion.

Dremora Lords in Shrines are little more than a permanently summoned Dremora.

They get the weapons they weild off the corpses of adventurers they defeat, just as you get the weapons off their corpses.

I highly, highly, doubt the Dwemer are in Oblivion. Considering that they were screwing with what they were ansd trying to become gods, its more likely they erased themselves from existance than anything else.

I think they just might hint about it a little more. They have kept this dwarf thing running since Redguard, I doubt they'd give it all away just yet (though it's true they never really focused on it until Morrowind). Since a player was pictured in some very dwemer like armor I'd have to say we'll run into at least some lore (at the VERY least).

The Dwemer are cool, They're like Athiest Romans. Except they build Zepplins and giant robot god's

Hopefully lore will present itself, but knowing the Elder scolls, they'll have what we want and more.

This post has been edited by Gomez': Dec 7 2005, 05:39 AM

Just like in rea life, a lot of stuff in history is obscure an unknown.

Actually since Arena. One of the first major dungeons you had to brave were the mines of Fang Lair, build by the Clan of Rourken. There was already talk in Arena of the disappearance of the dwarves.

That aside, I doubt they're still around. I think they were entirely removed from the world by Azura as punishment for their blasphemous attempts to build their own god, and their total and utter defiance of the Daedra. The ash piles in the Dwemer ruin in Mournhold are a good indication of that. One of them survived, but only because he wasn't in our dimension/plane/realm when it happened.

Dwarven armor has been confirmed officially by Bethesda in their new codex for skills (under Heavy Armor it lists Dwarven). They won't (I assure you with 100% guarantee) that they will not let armor slip in the mix without a little lore (or even new dwemer constructs) being added as well.

I think it'd be neat to have one dungeon be dwarven ruins and bring back some of the good old constructs with some new ones. If anyone could make a death trap its the dwarves. Then near the end there could be a book on a shelf that gives a little more information on it, like it talks about the vehicle through which kagrenac planned to use his tools to make them all Gods, and then his concerns on the possibility of doing so required some transition to the etherical realm, and there was a chance they might get stuck.

I am pretty certain Bethesda will never explain it 100%. Leaving it vague and several different accounts of the same event written by the different sides is what makes the lore so appealing. The actual events that lead to the disappearance were accounted in several books each hinting at a different take on the story. While I believe Kragrenac made the tools to transform/ascend his race, I think its much more tragic if the members of the tribunal actually had a hand in it. We know it happened around the battle of red mountain. What if Nerevarine, Vivec and the others made it into the heart chamber and attempted to use the tools to win the battle. Perhaps because they weren't quite fluent in the tools use or perhaps just a simple miswording or misunderstanding of the power they were handling. To me that makes a much more tragic image and an even greater secret that the tribunal had been hiding. Imagine the massive guilt realizing that instead of just ending a battle you had ended an entire race!

I agree with you about the complete revelation of the dwarven dissapearince never being fully explained, but I don't think you'd feel so bad about bringing de-existence to an entire race if your original idea was just to put them all to the sword.

Since you'll be able to travel to OBLIVION I think you will find some clues there since the Dwarves "Are there dead"

Well I don't really think so because I supposrt the theory that the Dwarves failed in their endeavour and all turned into dust. I always thought that the idea of Azura teleporting them all to Oblivion is a huge exageration of her power. If daedra were that powerful than Mehrunes Dagon would not have been defeated by Sotha Sil and almalexia.

I rest my case...

dwemer rock

My lore is bad at best - but was it not an avatar of Mehrunes Dagon that was defeated rather than himself? (Maybe i'm thinking of Hircine's avatar - someone set me straight please )

EDIT: Also, didn't good old mad Sheogorath send a huge rock towards Vivec (city) with intentions of causing some mayhem? Thats pretty powerful - in my book at any rate ;)

I don't believe Azura herself did actually do anything to the dwarves personally. To me Azura is more of a manipulator than someone that takes direct action. While pure speculation.. I believe ultimately the dwarves were de-created so to speak. Since it does involve the heart of Lorkhan who was an Aedra(those responsible for creation). If Azura had a hand in it is was probably in manipulating Kragnec into thinking his actions were for the good of the dwarves and he realized it too late.

One of the several contradictory versions of what happened at Red Mountain written up in Morrowind (the one that was in the Ordinator's secret library?) claimed that Nerevar and co. summoned Azura when they'd secured the heart of Lorkan, and she showed them a ceremony to perform that would disconnect the dwemer from the heart. They did that, and all the dwemer everywhere suddenly crumbled into piles of dust.

I always felt that that sounded like the the most plausible explanation to me. No direct displays of daedric power by Azura, just information and mis-direction (I'm not sure that Nerevar would have done the ceremony if he knew it would have killed all the dwemer, given his feelings towards them. Defeat them, yes, genocide them...)

Well the fun part of a mystery is not knowing what happend. I think alot of people would be disapointed if they put the secret out in the open.

Don't pay to much attention to the Dwemer weapons, they are leveld weapons to make sure the pc isn't killed with a single blow from a Daedric Long.

id rather have oblivion without daedra and with dwenmer than the other way round i loved the dwarven weapons armor and architecture!

Not sure if i'm right in saying this - but Dwemer aren't actually dwarves are they.