I got the idea for making this thread from Polygamy thread. I think this may be an intresting topic.

What do you think about religion(s)? Do you belive in any kind of gods? Christian God? Alah? Buddha? Or you don't have a religion at all?

If you do stick to your religion, tell us why. If you don't belive that there are such things as gods, again tell us why.
I hope that there won't be any flames or immature behavior. I have good faith in Chorrol.com community that there won't be any hard words, or simply dissrespect towards other opinions.

So, let's start shall we?

I personally don't believe in any religion. Whether there is or isn't a god/goddess doesn't really bother me. And you don't have to be religious to do good things although some people I know seem to think that that's the case.

The main reasons I don't believe in any gods are:
- because none of my family is religious so I haven't been brought up in a religious environment
- because I believe too deeply in logical, scientific explanations for things and believe that, one day, we will have a scientific answer for everything.

I'm not against religion; if people want to be religious then that's their choice; but I'm not for it either.

If I'm going to honor a God or Gods on a regular basis throughout my entire life with beliefs and rituals, the least they could do is give me some proof of their existence.

Alright... Well this is a very difficult topic to discuss on a forum and have the thread remain civil, even for here it might be a challenge, but some part of me really likes deep discussions about things you aren't supposed to talk about.

My personal view on Religion:

I do not choose to believe any of the major religions as they are practiced today. I mostly focus on learned knowledge as well, but I also keep a small space in reserve for the unknown. I don't believe in blind faith based on written words laid down thousands of years ago and translated several times. I also don't believe in the aethist stance of 'There is no God' as that is also based on a blind faith in science that has yet to be proven. I trust in "facts", but want to remain open to the truth that facts do change over time as more knowledge is gained.

I see a dual nature in religion both good and bad-
-Good: Overall I think religion is a great way to teach an entire society a code of values to live by. Those individuals that share the same value structure are more likely to get along and live peacefully.
-Bad: More people have fought and died because of religion than any other single factor. While those with the same religion might better co-exist with each other, they also are more likely to clash with those value systems/religions that conflict.

-Good: Belief in something that lies beyond death is what keeps most people from questioning whether everything they do in life is futile or will have meaning once they are gone.
-Bad: Religion has been used in the past and continues to be used as a control mechanism for manipulating the mass population relatively easily by a very small number of people or individuals.

I could probably go on for pages listing both good and bad points, but I won't.

For the most part I have no problems with those that choose to believe in a God as long as they also respect my view that I choose not to blindly follow.

This post has been edited by Neela: May 14 2006, 01:42 AM

I'm Buddhist but I prefer calling Buddhism a philosophy not religion because I don't believe in anything I can't see. Buddhism uses the Hindu Gods to explain a lot of things but it doesn't necessarily say the Hindu gods exist. All I believe in is the visible effects of meditation, Dharma and philospophy; if it was really an enlightened being or some guy smoking opium who started it all doesn't concern me, it works either way.

To me, religion is something that has grown with mankind and is used as his/her explanation for the world around him/her. The explanation of the origin of things but also of the flow and constancy as well as the destructive powers unleashed by storms, earthquakes, etc.

In the beginning people seemed to think that there were seperate gods/goddesses for every little item and force in nature. A corn god, a wind goddess, a rain god & all that. Then they got a little savvyor and thought of a pantheon of gods - Greek Olympus, The Roman gods, Norse mythology. The Egyptians had hosts of gods until 300 years before Christ, when a Pharoh decided that there was but one god and he closed all the other temples and moved the center of his kingdom to Memphis and had all the people worship this one god. But he alienated the now poor temple priests to the point that they killed him & reopened the multiply temples.

Then Jesus Christ came & talked of One God made of 3 parts - father, son & spirit - and Christianity soon took over the world. Islam is an offshoot from Christianity & Judaism was its base. Krishna has some teachings remarkably similar to the Christ's.

Then the industrial revolution came along & Scientia took hold. There is no reason that religion and science can't exist on the same plane, but many people seem to think that they can't. Religion and Science are simply two different ways of telling the same story - voicing our unknown. And so it will go until all the scientific and religious data are entered...until all the arks of the covanent, the roseta stones & noah's ark have been located and analyzed. Until the new signs are found.

And then mankind will realize that it ALL was true, that the sons of god did know the daughters of man and found them exceedingly fair. That we are starchildren and that our "true" gods will be our ancestors who will descend for us some promised day and take us away to that new home in the sky.

All hail Agent Molder!! I want to believe! We are not alone!!!

This post has been edited by Ibis: May 14 2006, 04:55 AM

Before I begin what will promise to be an extremely long winded explanation of my thoughts and opinions on religion, I would like to note to Ibis I think Science took over in the Rennaisance, before the Industrial Revolution. I think it was during the rebirth in europe that people began evaluating their beliefs on a real level and turning away from irrational thought. Not to say religion is irrational, just that before the Rebirth, irrational religious beliefs were more widely accepted, nowadays whenever a Pat Robertson shows up he get's laughed at or sighed at.

So, with no further adieu... my stance on Religion. It promises to be innoffensive, as it's stating my beliefs and I have no beliefs against individual people, nor any problem with any particular institution, and no reason to offend them.

In the 7th grade I gave up Christianity, something I held onto very dearly. God and Jesus and all that jazz kept me going through a very stressful life, parents divorcing, relatives dying, drinking problems in the family, all that good stuff. The conclusion I came to in 7th grade was that the Bible was just a bunch of words, and meant nothing in actuality. The more I thought about it, the more I realized the Bible, and the organized religion I belonged to, offered me only false consolidation for my troubles. You see, ever since I was tiny, I had a strong fear of death. Not the decaying, but realization of the passage of time, and of how quickly I was shooting into old age (I believe it's thought of as awareness of your mortality), and how short life was and how before I knew it I'd be dead and it'd all be for nothing. I required an afterlife. Well in 7th grade, because I started thinking too much and being critical on my beliefs, or rather the beliefs I was told to have, it no longer provided consolation, and proved useless.

Where I went from there was a whole mess of places, exploring different religions. No, that's a lie, all those different religions was too much reading for me. Actually I explored spirituality through thought alone. First the God I loved transformed into a universal intelligence and a clock-maker, then as I continued to grow and think about life, the universe and everything, and figure things out, he transformed into a pattern, nothing more than an entity giving life through the mechanics of the universe playing out. Then, he was simply meaning, and depth, and purpose. Then, as I was faced with more criticism, and stemmed my own criticism over the religious right, and grew an ego too large for my head, he was nothing. All the while my mind still searched for an afterlife, and couldn't find it, couldn't figure out what would give me solice. I reasoned with heaven, with the onion thing, with collective unconscious, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I read the Satanic Bible, went through that phase, read up on buddhism, went through that phase, but eventually it donned on me, I could never really know. When I figured that out, it seemed so obvious. God was the mother earth, and all the creatures on it, and the ecosystem both the living and the non, and the connections between every creature. The afterlife was the world after you die, the difference between Heaven and Hell are decided by your actions while you're living. You can succumb to greed and violence, and leave the world after your life in worse shape, or you can be kind and hold to justice and leave the world a better place. I decided any truth in the idea of an afterlife should have no bearings on my life now, because I didn't want to ignore what I could be doing to help people here if I were too focused looking ahead.

So what's my take on organized religion? I'm against it, because I wish every human could get the chance to figure their own beliefs and ethics out for themselves, it's a very rewarding persuit.

Wow. I knew I would meet many different people on forums. But I didnt expect this different.

I am Christian, believe in god. There is a holy feeling, just like hapiness, sadness, anger, or any other emotion. Ive felt it, it felt like god speaking to me once, in one of my harder times of life, I all the sudden felt the holy feeling, it was as if it said "You will be safe" and it seemed to be gone.

Though, most people think that if you believe really deeply in god your life will be easier. God helps everyone, a lot. But he doesnt make their problems go away, or fight their battles. My best friend says that, he says that in my hard times of life I just need to believe in god really hard. I need gods help, but I cant completely rely on him.

Through all that, Im completely Christian. I believe in god, and always will, through my happiest times, or my hardest times. I always will.


I think the main reason there is religion, is that everyone needs someone more powerful than them, or must be controlled by something. Whether its true or they make it up.
It can also be used as a way to control. If you had an empire, that was out of control. No one went to work, or believed in anyone, they just believed that once they died they died. Tell them that if they are good they have hapiness when they die, if they do crime they go to hell when they die. That will surely straighten them up.

This post has been edited by ThePerson98: May 14 2006, 07:48 AM

Interesting thread idea, HyPN0

Me, I'm an atheist. Always have been, always will be. It's not just the way I've been brought up, it's something I have reflected upon intensively and I, for myself, have come to the conclusion that I do not have faith. That's what I see atheism as: a state of total lack of faith in any kind of divinity.

As far as the origin of religion is concerned, I think I read that humans have a built-in "religion gene" (don't take that literal). What this means is that we are predestined to fill the big gaps in our knowledge, the ones that really concern or worry us, with ... something. I'd say imagination, but that would probably come across as a bit flamey.

Anyway, you get the picture. The idea is probably that we -or rather our brains- can cope with very frightening, disturbing or exceedingly complex concepts without totally losing it. The concept of our own mortally, for instance, is one of the most difficult things to cope with, at least when you have reached that point in your life where you truely understand "it can happen to you, too", and you start to think and worry and wonder what comes "after". Religion can provide an answer where otherwise there would only be doubt and fear.

I wouldn't say that it has outlived its usefulness by now. Obviously, many people still have a strong need for religion. Demand for it seems to increase the worse off people are in general. Many see it the other way around and observe that people who live the easy life turn away from religion. I for one have had a couple of difficult years in my life, where I had to life off very very little. Of course, that was still by far not as bad as starving in a really southern poor country, and I really can't say how I'd feel if I had been born into a different situation. Maybe I would feel very different then. Or maybe if my parens were religious, who knows.


In the immortal words of Star Trek Deep Space Nine's Major Kira:
"It doesn't work that way!"

Religion is based on faith. Either you have it, in which case proof is not required. Or you don't have it, in which case nothing will convince you anyway.

Try not to take ofence to anything I say, think of it as one side and argue against it please.

I find religion in the way it is presented to be barely believable - Christianity I think of mostly as it is my country's national religion. Afterlife to me seems to be merely people who can't bear to think that we only have 90 odd years hoping that there is more to it.

And the views of an omnipotent, omniscient and all-loving God is impossible in conjunction with any tragedy. He can never be all 3 traits with the things that have happened on earth.

My personal view is that there is some sort of 'entity' somewhere that created earth - but does not find humans any greater than anything else on the planet. At first he created a shiny new planet, then we humans started evolving and wrecking it up. Thus hes created 'science' to deal with us in due course. We just kill ourselves and do his work for him. I also don't think he could be too powerful, I reckon he's actually a small pawn in an entire hierarchy of Gods - we are only a small planet after all.

I say live and let live. I don’t believe in any god myself. But I have no problems with anyone else feeling that way. My mother always told me if it brings people comfort that’s great. Ill admit I do get annoyed when others preach about atheists like I’m some kind of savage, but that never really happens.

I do think there are some worthwhile things in religion, but I don’t think it makes you a better person because of it. That comes from somewhere else. But Ill always remembers one point that was brought up when I was at school.

A teacher was talking about a religious subject and mentioned that god chooses who lives and who dies. I immediately took offence to this and questioned why my step dad had died, but people who commit murders or war crimes were still alive.

That’s one of the main reasons; I can’t understand why a god would allow life to be such a misery for some. Another is what is written in these religious holy books and what we have discovered on our own is contradictory to each other. And it always troubled me why such a powerful omnipotent entity would “desire” to create such an imperfect and worthless existence. It seems almost cruel.

There are really all kinds of reasons and arguments, which don’t go anywhere. I take some as minor reasons to not believe. When it comes down to it though, the main thing that makes me think the way I do is because I believe a good life lived without religion is better than a good life lived because of religion.

If I did ever turn out to be wrong and there was some divine entity behind it all, I doubt I would be willing to bow and scrape. I can’t understand why I should do anything a god would want. Just as I would not do something another person would want. I don’t like facing judgement of one who hasn’t given me enough reason to do so.

I believe a god would need a creator, so why should I be awed and worship something that just came about differently than me. Truthfully when it gets down to it I think its just one big intergalactic fluke. And since an eternity of nothingness wont matter once your dead, just do what makes you feel better until the inevitable happens.

I have some proof that no God exists.... well any 'Good' god... if God was 'Good' and he did no evil, yet he created everything (It's in EVERY worship... except nilism of course...) which includes disease... which is pretty evil stuff... (Don't say he didn't create disease cause he did by creating bacteria)

Not to mention she sent Moses down to tell everyone they are all going to hell but a few, then once everyone changed their lifestyle to suit she sent down Jesus to say that she lied the first time and that few are going to hell now and some others aren't, then FINALLY she sent down Mohammad that he was just jacking all our strings and the first 2 groups of people will be going to heaven as well as another group but everyone else is going to hell, then she sent down the holiest lord spongebob squarepants and we all rejoice in his divine glory. Amen!

err...sorry to spam. I agree with Darkhunter's point, lots of people say that God likes to play sadistic games with us and doesn't interfer because thats not his nature. If its not his nature then why would there be a heaven? Because God forgot that freewill made Adam free? Please even I wouldn't forget about that and I worship Spongebob squarepants. Sorry if this starts a religious arguement.

This post has been edited by Pisces: May 14 2006, 01:23 PM

You know, its a bit selfish to think that god just made the world for us. diseases - bacteria are also organisms, maybe he favours them more and we are just food for them.

Then why do we have SOOOOO many types of worship for him... if the world was made for ants, you could say bye to the Lords people right... now... *Begins developing Bio-Weapon to kill only ants...*

You're probably right.. I just don't believe in it since there's absolutely no proof of its existence in any form, Bible stories and religious beliefs aside.

I'm agnostic. As in I don't know - or rather, don't care. My main objection to the whole concept of a diety is that I don't believe anyone has the right to judge my actions. So if I die and there is nothing, great. If I die and there is something, still great. Really I don't care. I did that whole past life regression thing once, and I don't know if it was real. If it wasn't, it was still fantastic. Kind of like Total Recall - a holiday away from yourself.


I once got into an arguement with that by some dickhead who seemed to take objection that I commented about something he said in someone elses journal, and actually used the phrase "I was talking about instinctive arguements, not intellectual ones" which made me think that he was more than a tad up his own british boat, and makes me hate him to this day. Often Atheists seem to be a relgion to themselves, given that they assume superiority over everyone and preach their beliefs more feverantly than many relgious groups.

Of course if you're feeling cynical, just quote L. Ron Hubbard:

“If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion.”

I just noticed I didn't state my own opinion!
How rude of me

Well, I don't belive in god (or gods) because of one simple reason: Injustice.

Some have too much, some have too little. Is that fair? Bible says that we're all god's children and we have equal rights. But we all know that modern society doesn't work that way.
Is it fair that Western Countryes have food and all the other goodies, and most people in Africa don't? Why does god allow that childeren die even if they didn't do anything wrong? People that were doing horible things in wars, why aren't they punished? Why are victims in wars not saved by god(s)?

Some people are born with an IQ of 150, and some are stuck with 50. Some people don't have arms or legs since they are born, why is that? Some live longer that other. Some are beautyful, but some are ugly. Why do some people suffer, but other people are happy?

Would god(s) allow this? I don't think so.
Also, Religion is not supported by facts. Just name me one proof of god's existance, and i will gladly start beliving in it.

This post has been edited by HyPN0: May 14 2006, 04:16 PM

For me IF there is a god or entity out there that might have had a hand in getting this whole universe started, I see him/her more as a kid with a snowglobe.

He picked it up and shook it really hard during the Big Bang and now is just sitting back and watching it swirl.

As just a small part of one of billions of flakes, it seems kind of pointless to come up with rules or reasonings as to what the kids intentions were in picking up the globe in the first place.

He/She may not have the ability to influence the whole thing any further, but to wait and shake it again when everything settles back down.

I feel I should answer too, since this thread was started partially because of our discussion in the polygamy thread mentioned by Hypno in the first post.

It's a very open issue, religion. I agree with so many others here. What it all boils down to is; if it makes people happy it's ok. Most religions have guidelines derived from common sense, like the ten commandments from Christianity. If we had no Chritianity in ancient times, do you think we would believe it was ok to steal, kill etc.? (not talking about Oblivion here now! )

And like also mentioned above, Europe was Christened with blades. Those who would not accept the Roman church and it's beliefs were killed. Simple as that. Anyone spoke up against God or Jesus, they were hung, decapitated etc. Not a good way to spread a religion, I think.

But I know several people who were not religious, but who say that they suddenly got a message from God, saw visions etc, turning them into hardcore Christians. Who am I to doubt them? Most of these were acquaintances from my time as a full time musician, and they had various problems, mostly related to drugs. So now, instead of perhaps being dead by overdoses etc, they are now completely clean from drugs, and dedicate their free time helping other people with personal problems. Very admirable.

So even though I consider myself a non-believer, simply bacause I'm also the kind of guy who need 'proof' and that I believe in science, I also believe that there is more 'out there' that the eye can see.

I believe that humans had far more developed senses in the past, with no pollution and when no more than perhaps 100 people lived together in camps, compared to maybe 20 million in cities now. Image all the interference emitting from so many people living practically together! I believe we all - every living thing - share a common form of link that we felt much stronger a few million years ago. We could probably communicate without speaking, not only with other humans, but with every living object.

My mother (who suffers from whiplash, and has lead a very tough life since she got hit by that car, including two suicide attempts) recently went to a healer, and she is a VERY sceptical individual. She said that she could clearly feel the warmth from the healer's hands, although she (the healer) never touched her. For the next few days she had excruciating pain in her neck/back/head (where whiplash works), but at least she knew that the healer had reached something in her. No other treatments (and she's tried it all) has had any affect on her. She's booked a new session, and I'm as excited as she is about it.

Btw the healer was about 30 years old, and she had a full schedule, and was also recommended by educated physicians! She works from out of Klepp (I think) in Norway, so at least one other forum member here would probably know who she is, although I can't remember who at the moment...

Anway (sorry about the sidetrack), I'm quite open for anything, but I'd like to see proof of things before I believe in it. This makes religions a bit off for me, since they all tell you what to believe and not believe, something I find just as bad as dictatorship.