Dragon Age: Origins, Archery, Multi-Classing, etc... Options

[SubRosa]

Because I only see a topic for DA2, but not the first game. I have made some discoveries while playing, and thought I would share for the benefit of others who might try playing the game, especially as an archer.

I bought DA:O over a year ago, tried it with a Dalish Rogue/Archer, and didn't like it because my character felt useless. I tried the game again a few weeks ago as a Mage, and have been enjoying it. I have tried out a sword and board warrior, and a dual-wielding rogue long enough to play their Origins as well. Then I tried a Dalish archer again, and the blah came right back.

I have done some digging, and found that archery is really nerfed in this game, at least at the low levels.

If you are going with a Rogue archer you are going to want a high Cunning, since your talents depend on it. But that means you have to spread your points between Strength and Dexterity if you want to hit, and Cunning as well for your talents. I believe that ranged attacks are supposed to be dependent upon Dex only, but that is now how it actually works. It is the same as melee attacks, you get a bonus of 0.5 for every point of Strength and Dexterity over 10. I tried experimenting on leveling up, and saw how adding strength raised my ranged attack stat.

The Lethality talent is supposed to fix that, by making Cunning replace Strength. So I experimented by adding it through the console. It did nothing to my attack value. So either it is broken, or it modifies only bow damage, not attacks. I spent a lot of time looking at the attack value because my starting archer was missing more than she was hitting. A typical battle might have her fire 8 shots, and 5 would miss. And that was with an Attack of 60. Pretty abysmal, and the reason why I got so disappointed with the game my first time out.

Backstabs do not work with a bow either, which makes the Rogue archer even less viable.

Then I found This page on Efficient Archery. It all boils down to not using your archer talents because they slow down your attack speed considerably. Instead you need to concentrate upon high attack speed, and critical hits. Of course the one talent that improves your attack speed - Rapid Shot - also makes it impossible to critically hit. So it is useless. (however, there is a bug with the Pinpoint Strike, Stealth, and Death Hex talents that allow critical hits with Rapid Shot. Apparently every normal hit becomes a critical, and every critical becomes a normal hit). Just to make things even more interesting, every character in the game has a 3% base chance for a critical hit. Except the player character, who has none. So unless the PC is using a weapon or talent that adds a critical hit bonus, you cannot get any criticals at all. Thankfully I found this mod to fix that bug.


To enable the command console, do the following:

First go to your Dragon Age Origins\Data folder and find the DAOriginsLauncher.xml file.

Search it for the following line:
<true action="execute" file="${BINARIES_DIR}\DAOrigins.exe" path="${BINARIES_DIR}" autoquit="true" />

replace the entire line with this:
<true action="execute" file="${BINARIES_DIR}\DAOrigins.exe" path="${BINARIES_DIR}" arguments="-enabledeveloperconsole;" autoquit="true" />


Next go to your {User Name}\My Documents\BioWare\Dragon Age\Settings folder and find the KeyBindings.ini file

Find the lines (probably at the botton) that say

OpenConsole_0=(UNASSIGNED)
OpenConsole_1=(UNASSIGNED)

and change them to this:

OpenConsole_0=Keyboard::Button_Tilde
OpenConsole_1=Keyboard::Button_Tilde


I did some experimenting, and used the Console to change her from a Rogue to a Warrior. Her Attack instantly went from 60 to over 70, and the missed shots went down considerably. But I was hoping for your basic stealthy, bow using, lockpicking kind of character. Then I found out how to create a multi-classed character with the console (toward the bottom of that same page above). You can use the console to add all the talent trees from Rogue to the Warrior, and vice-versa, including the specializations like Bard or Assassin. It only matters what class you "officially" are because that is what determines your starting stats, base attack (Warrior is 60, Rogue 55) and how much health, stamina, etc... you get per level.

Multi-classing a mage is a bit tricker. The way the game is made Mages cannot use talents, and Warriors/Rogues cannot use spells. So you can use the console to add the Core Mage class, but it has no effect. However, you can still start with a Warrior or Rogue and use the console to add individual spells. They do not show up in your character sheet. But they do show up in the quick button bar at the bottom of the screen. You can move them around to different slots there as normal. They work just fine too, and use your stamina instead of magicka. I have not tried it, but you are supposed to be able to start with a Mage and do the same with Warrior and Rogue talents as well.

So you can create a mage who can pick locks and disarm traps, or a rogue who can cast spells, etc... I am going to play my newest character Banba as a hybrid of all three this way, using the Warrior as a base for the better health and to hit scores. I have already added the stealth, lockpicking, and dirty fighting talent trees. I found the first Dirty Fighting talent is handy for enemies that close to melee. A swift kick in the nards stuns them, without having to equip a shield or melee weapon. I doubt I will use any of the other talents in that tree though. I might specialize her as a ranger or a bard. I don't see her needing a lot of magic, but I expect to use some glyph spells, and maybe healing ones as well.

Finally, I just did some modding, and changed the Aim and Defensive Fire talents to remove their attack speed penalties. That should help make an archer more viable, hopefully without having to go through all of the acrobatic exploits listed on the Efficient Archery page. When I was going through the script file (talent_modal.ncs), I did not see any other archer talents that added a speed penalty. So either those two are it, or they are in a different file. Edit: Pinning Shot, Critical Shot, and Crippling Shot are in a different file - talent_singletarget.ncs - and they do slow down the attack speed as well. But when I looked in the script file, I did not see anything adding the slowdown. So back to the drawing board. Also, I see Arrow of Slaying is in talent_arrow_slaying.ncs, and Scattershot is in talent_scattershot.ncs. But I have not had time to look at those.

I am also using this mod that improves the stats of bows a little bit, but not overpoweringly so.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Aug 27 2020, 10:37 AM

[SubRosa]

I played some more Dragon Age again yesterday. This time out I created January. An Elf did not look right for her in this game, so I made her a Human. She is a Warrior, since there are no Monks or Paladins. This meant I did the Human Noble origin for the first time. It was interesting. One thing I like about DA:O is the origins. They give a unique story for characters of each race. The only one I have not done now is the Dwarf Commoner origin.

Of course the downside is that to do that there are only 3 races, and 3 classes to choose from. Plus you have your character's history forced on you by the game. Rather than something you can roleplay for yourself. It is one of those core differences in the two types of RPGS: One kind tells you a story, the other lets you tell your own story. Bioware typically makes the first kind.

I downloaded a couple of weapon and armor mods. But I don't think I will use them after all. This game is so old it wants the dvd in the drive to play it. Which got annoying. I did not want to use a no cd crack. So I found the game on Gog for just $4.99. They are having a Harvest Sale. So I bought it. It came with all the extras my Ultimate Edition dvd has, plus some more micro dlcs that add more items. So I am probably just going to use some of those dlc items.

I started January out as a two-handed weapon user. In DA:O you have 3 basic options for a melee fighter - Sword and Shield, Dual Wield, and 2 Handed. The 2 Handed attacks are slow however. So I switched it up to experiment with a Dual Wielder instead. I don't see January as a Sword and Boarder in this game. She is both a heavy hitter and defender.

But Renee's pics keep making me want to play Fallout 3 again too. So I might hold off on playing more.

So would you be going for Templar for your “subclass”? Alternatively you could do mage and go Arcane Warrior?

I was thinking Champion for the subclass. They seemed the most like Paladins. I briefly considered a mage, but I have done that once, and I am not really sure how the Arcane Warrior will play. Instead I can make her a Warrior, and use the console to give her Lightning spells.

[TheCheshireKhajiit]

I was thinking Champion for the subclass. They seemed the most like Paladins. I briefly considered a mage, but I have done that once, and I am not really sure how the Arcane Warrior will play. Instead I can make her a Warrior, and use the console to give her Lightning spells.

It’s been a long time since I played DA:O, and I must admit, I didn’t finish it. I just thought the Templars were kinda Paladin like in that they were trained to put down apostates.

[SubRosa]

I was thinking Champion for the subclass. They seemed the most like Paladins. I briefly considered a mage, but I have done that once, and I am not really sure how the Arcane Warrior will play. Instead I can make her a Warrior, and use the console to give her Lightning spells.

It’s been a long time since I played DA:O, and I must admit, I didn’t finish it. I just thought the Templars were kinda Paladin like in that they were trained to put down apostates.

TBH, I would compare the Templars to the SS, in that their job is to guard the Mages locked up in their concentration camp and kill them if they twitch.

[TheCheshireKhajiit]

I was thinking Champion for the subclass. They seemed the most like Paladins. I briefly considered a mage, but I have done that once, and I am not really sure how the Arcane Warrior will play. Instead I can make her a Warrior, and use the console to give her Lightning spells.

It’s been a long time since I played DA:O, and I must admit, I didn’t finish it. I just thought the Templars were kinda Paladin like in that they were trained to put down apostates.

TBH, I would compare the Templars to the SS, in that their job is to guard the Mages locked up in their concentration camp and kill them if they twitch.

Heh, indeed! Though I’m sure even the SS troopers romanticized themselves as some sort of gallant crusading warriors cleansing the world of what they perceived (read: brainwashed into believing) to be evil.

[SubRosa]

I was thinking Champion for the subclass. They seemed the most like Paladins. I briefly considered a mage, but I have done that once, and I am not really sure how the Arcane Warrior will play. Instead I can make her a Warrior, and use the console to give her Lightning spells.

It’s been a long time since I played DA:O, and I must admit, I didn’t finish it. I just thought the Templars were kinda Paladin like in that they were trained to put down apostates.

TBH, I would compare the Templars to the SS, in that their job is to guard the Mages locked up in their concentration camp and kill them if they twitch.

Heh, indeed! Though I’m sure even the SS troopers romanticized themselves as some sort of gallant crusading warriors cleansing the world of what they perceived (read: brainwashed into believing) to be evil.

That is what all the propaganda was about. Himmler certainly bought into it. Check out Wewelsburg Castle. Himmler literally saw it as his Grail Castle, down to a round table. Plus a crypt with a black sun, Nazi baptisms, plans to bring the Spear of Destiny and other magical artifacts there, etc... Really creepy.

[TheCheshireKhajiit]

That is what all the propaganda was about. Himmler certainly bought into it. Check out Wewelsburg Castle. Himmler literally saw it as his Grail Castle, down to a round table. Plus a crypt with a black sun, Nazi baptisms, plans to bring the Spear of Destiny and other magical artifacts there, etc... Really creepy.

I had heard a little of this, but man, I didn’t realize it went into baptisms and stuff. Geez. “Really creepy” is putting it mildly, lol.

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Aug 28 2020, 07:03 AM

[Uleni Athram]

I remember being addicted to DA:O. I think that game single-handedly sparked my interest to games like Baldur’s Gate, which it advertised itself as that series’ spiritual successor. I also remember a Marilyn Manson song being used for one of its trailers.

The City Elf origin was my favorite, followed by the Dwarf Commoner. Ipso facto, my favorite literary OC, Ylenno from Bravil, was born by combining aspects from both. Class-wise, I always went for a dual wielding Berserker/Reaver though I have to say that the Arcane Warrior specialization is the most OP class as all hell. I remember solo’ing the Archdemon once on a play through with a character I named and modeled after Vivec. It was super fun. If you guys want to go on a dev-allowed God trip, go for the Arcane Warrior superclass. Because that’s what it is. And if you have the DLC, combine it with the Battlemage specialization from Awakening. You’ll probably never die once.

Rogues... yeah, they’re good for companions but as a class for the player? I found them useless AF. SubRosa was also right in that archery was wasted on them; you’d have a more effective Archer if you just went at it from a Warrior class.

Leliana was the one I always romanced and always took with me for her utilitarian skills. And I loved Sten because his stories were always so interesting; he and Oghren were kinda useless compared to Alistait tho, who was the Super Tank of the party. I really hope the next Dragon Age game set in Tevinter would do away with DA’s outdated model of limiting how many companions you can bring along. Or at least up the member count to like, 6 or something. I want to experience boss fights where my whole party is at my back, dang nabbit!

[hazmick]

Agreed on rogues being better as companions than players. I always bring Leliana along for lockpicking and such, Wynne for healing, and either Alistair or Shale for tank (depending on dlc availability).

I think the two Dwarf origins would be my personal favourites - I thought Orzammar was really neat.