In My Time of Need, Saadia is lying Options

[Destri Melarg]

I haven’t seen this debated here before, so please allow me to get the ball rolling. Here are a few reasons why I believe that Saadia is a liar:


First, let’s ignore the fact that when you blow her cover her first instinct is to draw you into a private area and pull a knife on you. That could have been the case even if she was telling the truth.

Saadia claims that she is being hunted by Kematu’s band of mercenaries for speaking out against the Aldmeri Dominion. We must ask ourselves when exactly did this ‘speaking out’ occur? The events in Skyrim take place a full twenty years after the signing of the Second Treaty of Stros M’Kai. If we are to assume that she has not been hiding at the Bannered Mare for the last twenty years, then she made her comments against the Dominion after the elves had already left Hammerfell. There would be no reason for her to have to flee in fear of a Thalmor reprisal.

On the other hand, let’s assume that she spoke out during the heat of the Great War when parts of southern Hammerfell were occupied by Thalmor forces and therefore dangerous to any with the courage to speak. Why then didn’t she simply return to the protection of her noble family after the Treaty was signed? Once the elves were gone Hammerfell would have been the safest place in Tamriel for her, yet she chose to remain in hiding for a full twenty years after the elves had left her homeland. Why?

Saadia claims that Kematu and his men are mercenaries hired by the Aldmeri Dominion to silence her. Let’s take a look at that, shall we? The Thalmor rose to prominence in the aftermath of the Oblivion Crisis. In their nearly two hundred year history we have ample evidence of the lengths to which they will go to silence a dissident:

Rynandor the Bold was exiled by the Thalmor shortly after the Oblivion Crisis because he was critical of Thalmor claims that they were responsible for repelling the daedra. He then met with a violent end at Thalmor hands shortly after his departure. Lathenil of Sunhold was assassinated soon after bankrupting himself to see that copies of his book, Rising Threat, were distributed throughout the Empire. And Hadrik Oaken-Shield's journal details his dealings with the Thalmor . It is not contracted mercenaries he fears, it is Thalmor Justiciars.

Thalmor xenophobia would not allow them to trust the job of eliminating an enemy to one of the ‘lesser races.‘ It is highly unlikely that they would pay the expense of sustaining a band of Redguard mercenaries to search for a single Redguard woman throughout the holds of Skyrim. Especially when you consider that their own agents are already in place and, unlike Kematu’s group who can’t even get inside Whiterun, they are able to move (and even make arrests) with impunity. Moreover, it is highly unlikely that any Redguard, no matter how far he has fallen, would enter into a contract with the race that virtually obliterated most of southern Hammerfell.

Are we all so conditioned to jump to the aid of this 'damsel in distress' that we are willing to swallow any c0ck-and-bull story that she throws our way? Or are we suspiciousl of Kematu because he has chosen to camp at a place called Swindler's Den?

This post has been edited by Destri Melarg: Feb 6 2013, 10:24 AM

[Destri Melarg]

I do not believe Klaatu's story though. He has already proven himself to be a liar when he claimed to be a member of an organization that ceased to exist two decades in the past. Not to mention that he claims to be hunting a person who would have been an infant at the time his accusations took place. If she had even been born. Then given the fact that he chooses to live with murderers and cutthroats, he has made it very clear that honor is not a word he is on good terms with.

You are pre-supposing that Saadia is far younger than I see her. If she is as old as you believe then her speaking out against the Thalmor in Hammerfell would hardly have been considered a crime worthy of exile. It would be like punishing a French teenager in the 1960’s for speaking out against the Germans.

If, on the other hand, she is old enough to have spoken out during the height of the Great War when it would have been dangerous to do so, then why stay exiled after the war has been won? One would guess that her return would be occasioned by a hero’s welcome, if she is telling the truth.

I agree that the gender is not important. However, I do believe that twelve against one is cowardly, by anyone's sensibilities. More like twenty to one if Saadia is going to take on Klaatu and his thugs in their bandit hideout. This is the single, biggest thing that sways me to kill Klaatu and this thugs. That and the fact that he is allied with bandits to begin with.

Fair enough. I am not fully convinced that Kematu and his group are allied with the bandits as opposed to simply tolerating their presence as long as it doesn’t interfere with the mission. But I can’t argue the point in such a way that it convinces you away from your point of view so I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.

How hard can it be to find a Redguard in Skyim? It is not like the province is overflowing with them. That is like an African trying to hide in Sweden. It is not like they can just blend into the crowd now is it? It is not very difficult for me to walk around and meet all of the Redguards. It certainly is not impossible for RL bounty hunters like the aforementioned Papa Thorsen to find people hiding out in far larger, more heavily populated countries. All by their lonesomes too.

All the more reason why it doesn’t make sense that Kematu and his group were hired by the Aldmeri Dominion. The Thalmor already have their own agents in place, moving around Skyrim gathering Talos worshippers willy-nilly without any interference from either the Empire or the Stormcloaks. It seems like it would be a simple matter to expand that search to include the aforementioned African in Sweden.

Talking about resources, we are referring to someone who has to work at an inn cooking and cleaning to make due. So it is not like she is bribing the locals to protect her, like Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan. Plus it is an inn for Akatosh's sake. The one place where everyone goes to and is sure to see her. Of all the possible hiding places, it has to be the stupidest one to pick, because it so easy to find someone there.

Saadia does say that she was able to make off with a portion of her families’ wealth when she fled Hammerfell. It is what she offers for help against Kematu. But I do agree, hiding in an inn is pretty stupid!

Speaking of that, if Klaatu is on the up and up, how come he has absolutely no proof? He has no warrant for Saadia's arrest. He has nothing to identify himself as a legally appointed officer of any Hammerfell court. Why does not not go straight to the various Jarls in Skyrim and ask if their guard has seen this so-called war criminal? He does not even bother trying to go though any sort of pretense at being what he claims. Probably because being a criminal himself, he has no idea how a real officer of the law would behave. Instead he is skulking around in bandit caves.

You got me here. I have no answer for this. You’re right, if Kematu is what he says then he should at least be prepared to show a warrant. The fact that he doesn’t calls his whole story into question. I’m not sure I would go as far as calling Kematu a criminal, but something in his story is as shady as Saadia’s.

Why did my Stormcloak character incur a bounty for killing Imperial soldiers while doing the Civil War questline? Why did my Imperial character incur the same bounties for killing Stormcloaks she found on the road?


Honestly, I think trying to rationalize one side or the other in this quest is just that: an attempt at rationalizing the actions you take. It is clear that both sides are lying through their teeth. It also clear that we will never know the truth of what is really going on. We are not supposed to have a clear good vs. evil solution here. It is supposed to be morally ambiguous, just like so many other aspects of this game. So trying to paint one or the other as being 'the good guy' or 'the bad guy' is pointless. Note that I am not saying anywhere that Saadia is a good and righteous person. I have agreed right off the bat that she is lying to you. I just do not pretend that Klaatu is not either. I would rather kill him because as I have said before 12 to 1 odds rub me the wrong way, as do bandits.

Point taken. I may be rationalizing but isn't a rationalization necessary if one attempts to make sense of whatever action one takes in resolving this quest? Your rationalization is that you don't like 12 to 1 odds. That's cool. For me it comes down to a question of whose story seems more plausible. In my opinion that would be Kematu simply because, no matter how you slice it, Saadia's story is just flat out ridiculous. On the other hand Kematu may be lying, but his story seems a bit more plausible... to me at least. Maybe Grits and Zuuri have stumbled upon the only logical response to this quest!