Questions of Lore., Ask anything! Options

[Black Hand]

Since we started discussing it in the Role-Playing Forum, the idea occurred to Elizabeth Hollow me to have a dedicated thread where any could go too to ask questions relating to Lore in general.

Now, I don't want this to be TES-exclusive as Bethesda has expanded their repertoire a bit, so I invite others who are indeed masters of their respective domains to jump in and answer the many subjects I will not be able too.

To keep it simple, I think a simple format of:

A.) Ask question.

B.)Loremaster quote question and answer, providing links if necessary as others may wish to learn of it in greater detail.

C.)Where it can be avoided, no needless quote pyramids. Okay, okay that's a personal thing...but still: So much quotations!! Though I understand, sometimes your on a phone and can't really do the detailed snipping.

Now these are only guidelines as I see it. Maybe you have a better idea, and should go with that.

Now, my 'expertise' is limited to the The Elder Scrolls Series, and despite my bragging, there are definitely maybe somethings I don't know, but may be able to point in the right direction.


Alright, lets light this candle! Who gets to ask the first question?

[jack cloudy]

So not much more than I already knew then. Oh well, a blank slate is perhaps the most convenient.


As for Galmar and Rikke, Galmar is a possible prisoner but I doubt Rikke would have been captured by the Thalmor. It makes her later service as Tullius' right hand embarrassing for the Thalmor. Not to mention giving her a motive for revenge that makes her coöperation with the Thalmor suspect. Elenwen would not permit someone near her who has every reason to fly off the hook and knock her head off.


As for Ulfric's escape, I like to think that it wasn't him suddenly deciding to leave all on his own after all the torture. Rather it involved an assault on the complex from the outside. This could also be the place and time where Ulfric for the first time broke the way of the Voice and used the Shout as a weapon. Whether the escape was because the Thalmor allowed it or because the prisonbreakers were just too badass can be left open.




And speaking of the dossier for a moment. It is curious how it describes Ulfric as a dormant asset. I understand that the Thalmor are basically rubbing their hands with glee over the whole civil war. It weakens the empire after all and opens a second front the legion has to deal with. But at the same time I doubt that Ulfric is secretly in league with the Aldmeri Dominion. Unwitting pawn who can't see he is playing into the hands of those he proclaims to be his ultimate enemy, yes. Spy? No.


The dossier mentions having had direct contact and later implies that there is still secret aid. My interpretations of these is that Elenwen or one of her subordinates have spoken to Ulfric when he'd returned to Skyrim. Possibly to incite him (while making him think he'd come up with the idea himself of course) into going to war against the empire. The secret aid could be weapons and funding of course, but I think it is more in the vein of hindering operations conducted by the Thalmor against General Tullius. Think of the capture of Talos worshippers which serves to increase support for the Stormcloaks, or leaking out information so that Ulfric could elude capture up till Helgen.

[SubRosa]

So not much more than I already knew then. Oh well, a blank slate is perhaps the most convenient.


As for Galmar and Rikke, Galmar is a possible prisoner but I doubt Rikke would have been captured by the Thalmor. It makes her later service as Tullius' right hand embarrassing for the Thalmor. Not to mention giving her a motive for revenge that makes her coöperation with the Thalmor suspect. Elenwen would not permit someone near her who has every reason to fly off the hook and knock her head off.


As for Ulfric's escape, I like to think that it wasn't him suddenly deciding to leave all on his own after all the torture. Rather it involved an assault on the complex from the outside. This could also be the place and time where Ulfric for the first time broke the way of the Voice and used the Shout as a weapon. Whether the escape was because the Thalmor allowed it or because the prisonbreakers were just too badass can be left open.




And speaking of the dossier for a moment. It is curious how it describes Ulfric as a dormant asset. I understand that the Thalmor are basically rubbing their hands with glee over the whole civil war. It weakens the empire after all and opens a second front the legion has to deal with. But at the same time I doubt that Ulfric is secretly in league with the Aldmeri Dominion. Unwitting pawn who can't see he is playing into the hands of those he proclaims to be his ultimate enemy, yes. Spy? No.


The dossier mentions having had direct contact and later implies that there is still secret aid. My interpretations of these is that Elenwen or one of her subordinates have spoken to Ulfric when he'd returned to Skyrim. Possibly to incite him (while making him think he'd come up with the idea himself of course) into going to war against the empire. The secret aid could be weapons and funding of course, but I think it is more in the vein of hindering operations conducted by the Thalmor against General Tullius. Think of the capture of Talos worshippers which serves to increase support for the Stormcloaks, or leaking out information so that Ulfric could elude capture up till Helgen.

It could be that after Ulfric was captured, Galmar and Rikke are the ones who mounted a rescue of him afterward. That strikes me as both believable, and a suitably heroic deed for the genre.

I too think the idea that Ulfric openly and willingly serving the Dominion is as unlikely as John McCain being North Vietnam's Manchurian Candidate. I think the term 'asset' is what most people get confused over, and mix up with 'agent' - which is something completely different. Every American pilot the North Vietnamese tortured for information was one of their assets. But that is not to say that any of them were working for the North Vietnamese. They are just people who could be manipulated to accomplish the NVA's goals.

Likewise, Tullius, Rikke, Elisef, and Titus Mede are all Thalmor assets as well, because they are people whom the Altmer can manipulate to accomplish their ends. The only difference between Ulfric and Tullius in that regard is that the Thalmor cannot approach Ulfric directly (since he'll kill them). They have to use secret agents whom Ulfric does not know are Thalmor spies to push or prod or leak information to him. While on the other hand Tullius can be found at the Thalmor's parties.

The Thalmor's ultimate goal is of course to keep both sides fighting one another indefinitely. So I do believe they are helping Ulfric on the sly with information about Imperial movements, etc... and of course the same in reverse. Anything to keep them both in the fight. In the end both the Empire and the Stormcloaks are being used by the Thalmor, because the civil war provides a distraction. The Dominion needs to keep the round-ears busy while they rebuild their losses from Red Ring Road. Given that they are elves, it will take their women a long, long time to squirt out even one new generation of kids.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Aug 3 2013, 10:46 PM