Thieves Guild Extension, Possible new mod Options

[ghastley]

Once I get Evergloam finished for Oblivion, I'd like to do the same for Skyrim, and add some quests onto the end of the Thieves Guild quest-line.

The basic idea is that the TG has grown enough, once you're Guild-master, to break away from Maven Black-briar's influence. Karliah laid the groundwork for that in her activities around Goldenglow and Honningbrew, and you have a potential outside ally in Mjoll. Nocturnal should prompt this in some way, maybe via Karliah, who is cloistered in the Nightingale Hall, effectively out of the game. Nocturnal doesn't get to strut her stuff enough, either, so another appearance at the Twilight Sepulchre is in order, maybe more than one.

There needs to be an allowance for Maven becoming Jarl, and bumping her from that position won't let Laila take it back, as the city isn't switching sides in the CW. It needs another candidate - maybe Asgeir Snow-shod, if he's alive. Or even Gisli, from Solitude, so she can move out of her brother Erikur's shadow. Since Riften is in Imperial control, sending someone from Solitude makes some sense.

But first, Maven has to be cut off from possible sources of support. If she's Jarl, she's already lost the Stormcloaks, but the Imperial Legion, and the Thalmor (not to be considered the same side) are opportunities for quests. Evidence of dealing with the Stormcloaks at that point may be enough for the Legion, and Talos-worship for the Thalmor. If Laila is still Jarl, reveal a plot to kill her to alienate the Stormcloaks.

I'd also incorporate the making of Riftweald Manor into a TG-friendly usable location. Remove bandit guards and traps, open the doors, etc. Black-briar Manor would also become free if the current owners are jailed, dead, or whatever, but that only needs a change of ownership. One of them, probably Riftweald, would become a club selling the rival brand of mead, maybe with a side of drugs and prostitution.

Goldenglow/Honnigbrew revisited to establish the rival mead supply. Khajiit caravans bring in Moon Sugar and Skooma for the club. Svana Far-Shield and Threki the Innocent (released by the TG) are the "barmaids", with others added as business develops. Niluva Hlaalu is one possible recruit, too. I need multiple choices, as these are not essentials, and could be dead from vampire/cultist/thief incidents. Ingun Black-Briar is added (unwillingly) at the end.

Sibbi gets executed for multiple murders, including Svidi's even though she's still alive as Lynly. Hemming is jailed, in shackles. Maven herself needs an appropriately humiliating fate that she needs to remain alive to suffer - still thinking about that one. Maul loses essential status, but Mjoll doesn't -> who wins? I'd like that fight to take place in the middle of town, with everyone watching.

I'm also considering a raid on the Thalmor Embassy to kidnap Elenwen. This may be the incident that is blamed on Maven to sever her from Thalmor support? I've always thought it a pity that you don't get to go back there after the Diplomatic Immunity quest, unlike most locations. The problem with doing that is the effect on the MQ if you do this mod's quests first. So I need a Thalmor-related quest in case the player hasn't done DI, and then this would be tacked on the end as a bonus.

[ghastley]

So far, so good. My Orc Hearthfires went on hold because I couldn't get past a Papyrus crash in the construction scripts, but I suspect a single-master mod will have fewer issues (as Hulk Out confirms).

I've managed to get the bandits and doors disabled/swapped in Riftweald Manor by a quest stage fragment, and the staff likewise. I need to do the same for the traps, but that's less important when you can enter the house normally and don't need to use the basement tunnels.

I confirmed that the mercenaries at Goldenglow respawn, so the quest to go back there just needs a quest target item planted by the radiant system. The apiaries don't need to be involved the second time, so that scripting doesn't need to be touched. Honningbrew Meadery is already controlled by the TG, so I just need a quest to set up its supply chain from Goldenglow, and back to the Riften club.

I'm working on some ideas for connecting Maven to the Thalmor, but I need to check out what's actually possible, especially if the player hasn't done the Main Quest, and doesn't intend to, or has done the Civil War (or Season Unending) and made her Jarl of Riften. There are also possible issues with the Supply and Demand quest if it runs concurrently. Creating a flexible story that will fit in with any state of those quests is the biggest challenge. At least I can rely on the Thieves Guild being completed!