The Ultimate TES game, What would you like to see Bethesda do? Options

[Vital]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but it's not directly related to Skyrim, Oblivion or any of the older games and is a general discussion about an RPG series (The Elder Scrolls) so it seemed the best fit

Just to clarify: This is not a "Which TES game is the best" thread. It is a thread to discuss the various features seen in any of the TES games, whether you liked them or not, how they could've been done better, why they should've left them out, what they should've had instead/as well, etc etc...

Ultimately it is a discussion about what would be the ideal Elder Scrolls Game in your opinion and how Bethesda could combine all the failures and successes of the previous games in order to create this. If you're already happy with one game, how could it be made better? (It can't be perfect )

Feel free to talk about different mods and games other than TES and how these could be implemented into the game as well.


To start:

I personally would love to see a combination of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim (these being the only TES games I've played in depth) put into one game. The alien environment, number of factions, lack of hand-holding and so on from Morrowind, combined with the brilliant questlines and general feel (I can't explain this one but it just.... is) of Oblivion and the better combat, crafting and mechanical superiority of Skyrim.

This is just a brief description of some of the things I would like to see. I could write a 30 page essay on this and if this thread gets response I will put more stuff up. Anyway, what are you guy's thoughts?

[Winter Wolf]

I have no idea how it is in Skyrim.


That's all the constraint that's necessary to create a believable and interesting character, and it existed not because of some predefined box into which she was stuck at the beginning of the game, but simply because she started out with a particular set of aptitudes and a particular set of inclinations, and invested a particular amount of time and energy into pursuing those inclinations. That's all that's necessary and all I want (as far as that particular aspect of a game goes).

Skyrim actually did the leveling far better than Oblivion, in terms that the game speed of inclination matches the output to achieve the results. In Oblivion every skill leveled at a different pace and if you chose the wrong matching majors then you were in big trouble (as you know).

The problem with your second paragraph is that we could both play opposing characters with different inclinations and yet end up at the same place after 50 levels. ES does not have the scope through only adding attributes to the mix at the beginning to fix that. After 50 levels the game will simply flatten out to the uniform boorishness that ES always becomes.

One of Skyrim's biggest weaknesses is not the lack of classes. It is the lack of ways it offers to define your character at the start of the game.

Okay. These are my thoughts.

First- Bring back character classes. After all, how can you play a role without any role to play. Simple right? As I said above simply adding attributes will not address the leveling out that happens over the journey of a Beth game. Changing the beginning will not change the end. Try playing 300 hours of Fallout 3 and then see how different our characters turn out. I doubt they will be any different.

Second- Scrap the silly start-in-the-jail idea. That is nothing but lazy game design. So typical of Todd and his team and those who accept it.

All characters should start at 0 level and be involved in apprentice/training in their chosen profession. Join the parade ground in the Imperial Legion, work for a local footpad thief, go to class in the Arcane University, etc. Room should be allowed to achieve honors or be a trickster like Maxical, it all depends how you wish to play it.

Guild Quests should only be open to those of that profession. However, if a warrior class wanted to join the Dark Brotherhood there should be ramifications for doing so. Perhaps they insist that you murder one of your colleagues to prove your worth and the Legion becomes very annoyed as a result.

Cause and Effect.

And if you wanted to abandon your apprenticeship then that is okay as well. But that would mean you miss out on the specialization perks or attributes that belong to that profession. This is where you would simply add the points at the start of the game. I say make those adding points meaningful.

Perhaps skill caps at 80 for those who run away and later on they must make a costly visit to a master trainer to get that skill up to 100. Just like real life where if you skip school you pay the price later on.

Multi-class skill sets (Mystic Archer) would be allowed for combat, but there must be a penalty for doing so. Buffy should not be allowed to achieve the same level in archery that a specialist would get to. Sorry folks, but that has always been the rules of multi-class. In the same way the highest level spells should only be available to those who specialize.

That is one thing of many that role play should be. Do I specialize or multi-class. This do-anything-I-want attitude of ES is ridiculous.

Spellmaking and Enchanting should be in the game, but I would only allow the mage class to access it. Warrior and Sneak class would either have to pay for the service or find better weapons and equipment then is currently found in standard ES game, helping them keep up to speed. While playing a mage the said weapons would not appear, thereby depriving them the advantage.

I would bring back attributes, gender differences and also consider personality traits and likes/dislikes. Anything to brake up this boring same pot that Beth forces us into. I would scrap health regeneration and bring back armor and weapon degrading. I love using repair hammers!

Lockpick and Security needs to go back to the way it was before. I loved the auto attempt feature which made the character play the game instead of me. And the Open Lock spells must make a return. A mage using picks is wrong on so many levels.

Role play should always be about choice, variety and cause/effect. It is far deeper than simply adding attributes back into the game.

Marriage and Adoption is a complete waste of time and serves no purpose. Instead I would put effort in putting retirement into the game. Perhaps each time you start a new game the system asks you if would like to retire the last character. If you choose 'yes' one of the in-game homes is taken out of action and your character lives out their life there. A good aligned character can be spoken to with dialogue options, an evil character will be more reserved. And you might even see them around town when you visit.

All quests would reset with the new character and if you wanted to keep playing that old guy you could still reload an earlier save.

I haven't even looked at fixing the Main Quest story writing to suit an evil character or those abysmal fetch and carry quests that Beth love to use. But it is not hard.

Of course, if Elder Scrolls is not a RPG and is nothing more than a exploring and collecting game, then just leave it as it is!

Oh, and gpstr, you will probably find that a spin off series will certainly work. If for no other reason the it will now be a 10 year wait between ES games. Five years to Fallout and another five to the ES.

I cannot see that happening, at least in the long term. Beth Game Studios will break into two companies, one to build each game. So you might get a different direction yet!

This post has been edited by Winter Wolf: Apr 7 2015, 11:55 AM

[gpstr]

The problem with your second paragraph is that we could both play opposing characters with different inclinations and yet end up at the same place after 50 levels. ES does not have the scope through only adding attributes to the mix at the beginning to fix that. After 50 levels the game will simply flatten out to the uniform boorishness that ES always becomes.

The game flattens out later because all the races and genders have the same maximums. It flattens out because an Altmer with maximum strength is exactly as strong as an Orc with maximum strength, which is exactly why I've said, more than once, that the races should have different maximums.

First- Bring back character classes. After all, how can you play a role without any role to play. Simple right?

I don't need classes to play a role. I have no idea why you think I do.

Read this post: my characters. Every one of those is a role. Every one of those is a rich and detailed character with strengths and weaknesses and virtues and faults and things they're good at and things they're not good at. All of them are roles. None of them are classes.

Multi-class skill sets (Mystic Archer) would be allowed for combat, but there must be a penalty for doing so. Buffy should not be allowed to achieve the same level in archery that a specialist would get to.

It's not necessary to "allow" or "not allow" that. I addressed that in my last post - it's just a function of time. Even in Oblivion, even with its balky leveling system, those penalties already exist, simply because every single moment that your character spends doing one thing is a moment that s/he doesn't spend doing another.

One of my characters on that list - Jibran - is a swordsman. That's all he is. He uses no magic and no bow - he has no ranged attacks at all. The only thing he's ever done in combat is swing a blade. That's it. And consequently, he's far and away the best melee fighter I play. He leaves everyone else in the dust, just because while they've been gaining skill in a bit of this and a bit of that, he's been gaining skill in blade and only blade.

Now - if I kept playing characters long enough, they'd all catch up to him sooner or later, and if I played with a vanilla style build, it'd be sooner rather than later. But that's because the system in Oblivion is poorly designed - because skill progress happens too fast. If the system had been designed better - if it hadn't been designed to accommodate people who just want to be uber in a few hours - then no other character could ever catch up to him, just because they'd still be splitting their time between different things while he'd still be investing all of his time solely into the blade.

You're right that specialists should end up more skilled than hybrids. The place where you're wrong is your insistence that there has to be some sort of arbitrary rule that decrees that. If the game is designed well, then that takes care of itself, and that's as it should be.

Sorry folks, but that has always been the rules of multi-class.

Again, I could not possibly care less what has or has not "always been the rules."

Role play should always be about choice, variety and cause/effect.

Yes - it should - and that's exactly why I detest the sort of rules you're demanding.

Yes - there has to be cause and effect and there have to be advantages and disadvantages and benefits and penalties, but for a fulfilling game, and specifically in order to allow the "choice" that YOU have just advocated, that cause and effect and those advantages and disadvantages and bonuses and penalties need to be worked into the game organically - NOT just slapped on top as arbitrary rules.

Here's a Sufi proverb that's exactly on topic:

"In the desert, there is no sign that says 'thou shalt not eat stones.'"

You seem to think that such a sign is necessary. I say that all that's necessary is to design a game that's balanced and accurate enough that, just as in reality, it takes care of itself. And then, if I decide I want to play a character who eats stones, I'll play a character who eats stones. And s/he will suffer the natural consequences. That's what I want. What I don't want - what I resent with every fiber of my being - is someone else decreeing that I am not to be allowed to do that at all.

This post has been edited by gpstr: Apr 7 2015, 05:15 PM

[Burnt Sierra]

I say that all that's necessary is to design a game that's balanced and accurate enough that, just as in reality, it takes care of itself. And then, if I decide I want to play a character who eats stones, I'll play a character who eats stones. And s/he will suffer the natural consequences. That's what I want.

I think everyone would like that to be honest, after all, everybody here is a fan of role playing games. Emphasis on role playing. The closest game I ever played to what your suggesting was probably Fallout 2, back in ye olden days of choices and ideas over incredibly pretty graphics (hell, not even that ye olden, less than 20 years ago). Now, the emphasis is on real time action. Which I guess is what most people want. Not me, but I'm not the target demographic these days.

Maybe one day... Hopefully...

[mALX]

I say that all that's necessary is to design a game that's balanced and accurate enough that, just as in reality, it takes care of itself. And then, if I decide I want to play a character who eats stones, I'll play a character who eats stones. And s/he will suffer the natural consequences. That's what I want.

I think everyone would like that to be honest, after all, everybody here is a fan of role playing games. Emphasis on role playing. The closest game I ever played to what your suggesting was probably Fallout 2, back in ye olden days of choices and ideas over incredibly pretty graphics (hell, not even that ye olden, less than 20 years ago). Now, the emphasis is on real time action. Which I guess is what most people want. Not me, but I'm not the target demographic these days.

Maybe one day... Hopefully...

I've fallen off the demographics target too, but I kind of took myself out of even attempting after seeing Skyrim.

If it was an example of the future of TES, I didn't want to keep following it down that direction it was heading. I agree with you that the trend is moving away from freedom/autonomy/and choice and without these it suffocates roleplay.