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The Ultimate TES game, What would you like to see Bethesda do? |
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Vital |
Mar 27 2014, 09:25 AM
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Mouth
Joined: 31-December 13
From: My plane of oblivion
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I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but it's not directly related to Skyrim, Oblivion or any of the older games and is a general discussion about an RPG series (The Elder Scrolls) so it seemed the best fit Just to clarify: This is not a "Which TES game is the best" thread. It is a thread to discuss the various features seen in any of the TES games, whether you liked them or not, how they could've been done better, why they should've left them out, what they should've had instead/as well, etc etc... Ultimately it is a discussion about what would be the ideal Elder Scrolls Game in your opinion and how Bethesda could combine all the failures and successes of the previous games in order to create this. If you're already happy with one game, how could it be made better? (It can't be perfect ) Feel free to talk about different mods and games other than TES and how these could be implemented into the game as well. To start:I personally would love to see a combination of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim (these being the only TES games I've played in depth) put into one game. The alien environment, number of factions, lack of hand-holding and so on from Morrowind, combined with the brilliant questlines and general feel (I can't explain this one but it just.... is) of Oblivion and the better combat, crafting and mechanical superiority of Skyrim. This is just a brief description of some of the things I would like to see. I could write a 30 page essay on this and if this thread gets response I will put more stuff up. Anyway, what are you guy's thoughts?
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I'll probably disappear for a minimum of 10 minutes after this post..
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Replies
Destri Melarg |
Apr 8 2015, 08:21 PM
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Mouth
Joined: 16-March 10
From: Rihad, Hammerfell
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 8 2015, 09:48 AM) The trouble there is that every member of each race is an exact duplicate. Apparently there are factories out there rolling out elves, humans, orcs, etc..., since we all start out with the factory-standard model. That would explain why the children all look the same... I find it very un-i... (sorry Renee, but here comes the 'I' word) immersive.
And I can understand that point of view. The point I'm making is that, if the opposite were true and we went back to fixed attribute starting points for the various races, then we would inevitably find ourselves in a situation where developers give us elves that are physically weak and orcs that are mentally inferior. That, to me, is far more limiting than just starting me with a blank slate that I can then develop the way I see fit. I'm okay with it taking me 5+ hours to get the character I'm going to enjoy for the next 150+. QUOTE But more than that, the bonuses they give the races rarely match up with who my character is at the start of the game. The characters I create are people, with their own personalities, histories, and stories. Not toons I roll to beat the game with (Ph3R M3 n00Bs!). Because of that I could work past the inability to customize my stats at the start of the game. I play a person, not a bunch of statistics. However, it makes it difficult to do that working past, precisely because what my character can or cannot do from the very first moment in the game does not match who that character is in my head. I think we're actually in agreement here. I've still never even finished the main quest of any Bethesda game (going all the way back Morrowind, and that includes Fallout 3). My characters start with a personality, not with a pre-formed skill set. You are arguing that your characters are 'people, not a bunch of statistics' while being put off because you can't start with the statistics you want. My characters discover who they are throughout the course of their adventure, that's a big part of the fun for me… and all I'm saying is that I don't mind starting my character off as a blank slate if that means that I don't have to be burdened with the ideas of that 'guy sitting in the DC suburbs.' QUOTE For example, one of my earlier characters was Hera, who was an Altmer barbarian… … I shouldn't have to wait until 5 hours into the game to be able to play the character the way I envisioned them being at the start of the game. So it sounds like what you're really put off by is the fact that Hera couldn't steam roll the earlier levels the way you wanted. Think about it… your Altmer barbarian was still able to use two handed weapons (which in a number of so-called rpgs would have been impossible because you had the effrontery to pick a high elf... and everyone knows high elves are just mages), she just had a not-too-steep learning curve to negotiate at a time in the game when enemies are easy anyway. You were also able to fit her into the fur armor you wanted (again, impossible in most so-called rpgs). As you've stated you could just ignore her apprentice level skill in Illusion… or you could just incorporate that into your role play by using courage spells to simulate her leadership qualities. All of that came with the vanilla game us console players use which, being on the PC where you can just change things to the way you want anyway, doesn't apply to you. I have always sought out and respected your opinion, 'Rosa. But, in this case/thread, I think we're all getting upset about the wrong things in Skyrim. Personally, I don't care if they continue to streamline the mechanics. What I care about is that they continue to streamline the story-telling! Give me an epic and engaging MQ (hopefully one I'm not forced into), and interesting side quests & faction quest lines. Make the effects of these quest impact the world beyond whether or not a tree grows in Whiterun. Give me a world filled with 3 dimensional characters and relationships that feel real and not contrived. Do that and you can take away all the attributes and impose as much homogeneity in character creation that you want! QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 8 2015, 10:20 AM) QUOTE(Acadian @ Apr 8 2015, 01:10 PM) The real challenge is that if you put 10 players together, you'll get 10 differing visions of how things should work. So I'm glad I'm not a game developer, and think the smartest thing they can do is make sure and offer their tool kit (CS / CK) to the fan community.
The smartest thing to do is make it the way I want it! I'd buy it… as long as it had a tool kit! This post has been edited by Destri Melarg: Apr 8 2015, 08:39 PM
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SubRosa |
Apr 8 2015, 08:51 PM
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Ancient
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds
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QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 03:21 PM) So it sounds like what you're really put off by is the fact that Hera couldn't steam roll the earlier levels the way you wanted. Not steamroll. I don't expect that until the later part of the game. I just want to possess the basic competency of a person who has been using the weapon/skill since childhood. Along with the basic incompetency in other things they have not been using. QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 03:21 PM) Think about it… your Altmer barbarian was still able to use two handed weapons (which in a number of so-called rpgs would have been impossible because you had the effrontery to pick a high elf... and everyone knows high elves are just mages), she just had a not-too-steep learning curve to negotiate at a time in the game when enemies are easy anyway. You were also able to fit her into the fur armor you wanted (again, impossible in most so-called rpgs). As you've stated you could just ignore her apprentice level skill in Illusion… or you could just incorporate that into your role play by using courage spells to simulate her leadership qualities. All of that came with the vanilla game us console players use which, being on the PC where you can just change things to the way you want anyway, doesn't apply to you.
My elf characters in all the other RPGs I have played - like the Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate games - could start out as muscle-bound barbarians who were good with a sword and clueless about magic as well. So I am not sure what other RPGs you mean? This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 8 2015, 08:52 PM
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Destri Melarg |
Apr 8 2015, 09:45 PM
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Mouth
Joined: 16-March 10
From: Rihad, Hammerfell
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 8 2015, 12:51 PM) Not steamroll. I don't expect that until the later part of the game. I just want to possess the basic competency of a person who has been using the weapon/skill since childhood. Along with the basic incompetency in other things they have not been using.
Fair enough. Ten points give or take at level 1 is still not immersion breaking for me... but I can respect that it is for you. QUOTE My elf characters in all the other RPGs I have played - like the Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate games - could start out as muscle-bound barbarians who were good with a sword and clueless about magic as well. So I am not sure what other RPGs you mean? Okay well, since you brought up Bioware, how about KOTOR. If I recall you yourself used it as an example when you said you hated the fact that your Jedi couldn’t be good with a lightsaber and computers unless you chose a Consulor. What about the Mass Effect series? There choice of class limited you in what weapons/armors you could wield/wear. Try to be a dwarf mage in Dragon Age... you can’t. Even if the developers site story reasons as explanation it remains a somewhat arbitrary imposed limitation. Being on the console I am at an admitted disadvantage when it comes to good RPGs. You obviously have more experience with the subject. I, for example, have played Balder’s Gate but not Neverwinter Nights. I’ve also never played a good pen and paper RPG so anyone who has is bringing to the subject more experience than I. I am simply saying that, on console at least, the Elder Scrolls still gives us more freedom than just about anyone else. I should have framed the argument in those terms initially, sorry for the confusion. Edit: Look, every opinion expressed so far in this thread has been passionate, heart-felt, and well thought out. All of them are defensable and none of them come across as ‘wrong’ to me. What I’m saying is that none of them get to the heart of why we feel the way we do about the current trend in the Elder Scrolls series. We were all able to suspend our disbelief and fall in love with this series when the battle system was, quite frankly, trash. We did so because the stories we were able to tell within this world were so good. Immersion doesn’t come from attributes or racial specials or any of the other bells and whistles that constitute game mechanics. Immersion comes from a suspension of disbelief inherent in the personal story being told in a living, breathing world where actions have consequence (which, correct me if I'm wrong, is ultimately the point that gpstr was making) . A story of good quality can withstand flaws in the battle system, or the absence of attributes, or even the loss of the freedom to do what you want in the way in which you want to do it. A poor story makes all of these errors stand out in bold relief. Lack of this basic element is why Skyrim, as Winter Wolf so astutely pointed out, feels a hunderd miles wide and one inch deep. Once again I have succeeded in de-railing your thread, Vital. That's enough out of me. Apologies. This post has been edited by Destri Melarg: Apr 8 2015, 10:07 PM
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Posts in this topic
Vital The Ultimate TES game Mar 27 2014, 09:25 AM mirocu Great thread idea! I´ve been thinking the same... Mar 27 2014, 09:41 AM Grits I like what you said so far, Vital.
My ultimate g... Mar 27 2014, 10:52 AM mirocu Good points there, Grits :goodjob: Mar 27 2014, 11:02 AM Vital Good points indeed, Grits :)
I agree completely ... Mar 27 2014, 11:33 AM mirocu
One small thing that I read is in Arena: You can ... Mar 27 2014, 11:47 AM Vital
One small thing that I read is in Arena: You can... Mar 27 2014, 12:02 PM Grits Some more thoughts after my first cup of coffee. ... Mar 27 2014, 12:04 PM ghastley Having played a number of games with a LAN co-op m... Mar 27 2014, 12:58 PM McBadgere I've wondered about something like what you ha... Mar 27 2014, 01:54 PM SubRosa Like Grits, I would most like to see consequences ... Mar 27 2014, 06:06 PM Vital SR, you make some great points on the factions.
... Mar 28 2014, 12:23 PM Callidus Thorn While I'd love to see factions improved, I... Mar 29 2014, 07:36 PM Vital Callidus,
I think there needs to be some restric... Mar 30 2014, 11:26 AM Callidus Thorn
Callidus,
I think there needs to be some restri... Mar 30 2014, 04:40 PM Thomas Kaira It's rather unfortunate, but the trend for the... Apr 1 2014, 05:04 PM Alexander Nice thread idea, and some great ideas here!
... Apr 2 2014, 02:09 PM mirocu
I could go on and on there, perhaps it's aski... Apr 2 2014, 02:34 PM Callidus Thorn
I could go on and on there, perhaps it's aski... Apr 2 2014, 02:37 PM mirocu
It always pisses me off over at Bethsoft when som... Apr 8 2014, 08:07 AM Vital
[quote name='Callidus Thorn' post='217920' date='... Apr 8 2014, 09:48 AM mirocu
Maybe you're right, 'rocu. A perfect game... Apr 8 2014, 09:53 AM Callidus Thorn
However I'd like to see the TES games made to... Apr 8 2014, 10:06 AM mirocu
I no longer consider myself part of the TES fanba... Apr 8 2014, 10:12 AM Callidus Thorn What I'd really like to see brought back to TE... Apr 8 2014, 10:39 AM Vital I still enjoyed Skyrim, despite many of the change... Apr 8 2014, 11:07 AM Acadian I want reins on horses (like Oblivion didn't h... Apr 8 2014, 12:50 PM Vital
I want reins on horses (like Oblivion didn't ... Apr 8 2014, 01:12 PM Grits Oh, horses! I would also like mounts and anima... Apr 8 2014, 01:15 PM Vital A follower command for Use This Horse would make ... Apr 8 2014, 01:21 PM Jacki Dice The perfect TES game? That isn't Morrowind? :P... Jan 27 2015, 12:59 AM Destri Melarg My ultimate TES game would look something like thi... Jan 29 2015, 12:23 AM gpstr There's one and only one thing that I really w... Apr 2 2015, 01:15 AM Destri Melarg
There's one and only one thing that I really ... Apr 3 2015, 07:33 PM ghastley
There's one and only one thing that I really ... Apr 3 2015, 08:55 PM gpstr Here are two significant facts about Todd Howard:
... Apr 3 2015, 09:29 PM Acadian I play really for the 'sandbox' element. ... Apr 3 2015, 10:27 PM Winter Wolf Yeah, there has certainly been a step backwards wi... Apr 4 2015, 01:34 AM gpstr Skyrim has sold over 20 million copies.
It would... Apr 4 2015, 03:46 AM SubRosa I agree with everything you said gpstr. I even rec... Apr 4 2015, 05:05 AM Renee
I expect that the next TES game will not even ha... Apr 5 2015, 01:48 AM gpstr I agree - indies are the future of gaming, at leas... Apr 4 2015, 05:23 PM Winter Wolf It has been years since I considered ES a role pla... Apr 5 2015, 07:38 AM gpstr
It is the character design at the start of each E... Apr 5 2015, 08:56 PM Winter Wolf
Well... I have to say that I couldn't care le... Apr 6 2015, 12:58 AM haute ecole rider After sitting down and reading through the last se... Apr 6 2015, 12:48 AM Acadian I will say that I like TES better than D&D whe... Apr 6 2015, 01:09 AM gpstr @haute ecole rider - I just have to say that I DET... Apr 6 2015, 03:17 AM Winter Wolf I guess the problem that I see is that I can play ... Apr 6 2015, 11:17 AM SubRosa Long before my days of computer gaming, I played p... Apr 6 2015, 06:50 PM ghastley Good point about the "unallocated points at s... Apr 6 2015, 07:17 PM gpstr It's a fact of life, and thus of a roleplayed ... Apr 6 2015, 07:32 PM Winter Wolf
I have no idea how it is in Skyrim.
That's ... Apr 7 2015, 11:24 AM gpstr
The problem with your second paragraph is that we... Apr 7 2015, 04:17 PM Burnt Sierra
I say that all that's necessary is to design... Apr 7 2015, 06:28 PM mALX
I say that all that's necessary is to desig... Apr 7 2015, 07:28 PM Destri Melarg My two cents:
It has been years since I consider... Apr 7 2015, 11:04 PM SubRosa
This seems like an empty gripe when you consider ... Apr 8 2015, 05:48 PM Winter Wolf
I like this idea and will certainly love to see i... Apr 8 2015, 11:14 AM gpstr
That is certainly an impressive list. But I fail... Apr 9 2015, 06:58 PM Winter Wolf
As but one example - Dawn the Breton. She uses m... Apr 11 2015, 01:51 AM Callidus Thorn I have to say, I agree with a lot of what gpstr... Apr 8 2015, 05:49 PM Acadian As far as skill management goes, I'm delighted... Apr 8 2015, 06:10 PM SubRosa
The real challenge is that if you put 10 players ... Apr 8 2015, 06:20 PM SubRosa
Okay well, since you brought up Bioware, how abou... Apr 8 2015, 10:37 PM Winter Wolf It has been very interesting to read the posts her... Apr 9 2015, 12:37 PM haute ecole rider For me role-playing is storytelling. I take a char... Apr 9 2015, 06:13 PM Destri Melarg CLICKY
I am curious though, how do you decide ma... Apr 9 2015, 09:54 PM bobg I just got to this thread and the idea of defining... Feb 14 2016, 12:41 AM ImperialSnob Hand development over to Obsidian :P Apr 3 2017, 07:47 PM RaderOfTheLostArk My ideal TES game is probably not feasible, but on... May 5 2017, 02:41 PM ghastley I have issues with the way that Daggerfall did cha... May 5 2017, 03:52 PM Decrepit This topic is dangerous for me, as my "ideal... May 7 2017, 09:03 PM SubRosa I think the ultimate TES game would be coded by so... May 7 2017, 10:14 PM RaderOfTheLostArk
I have issues with the way that Daggerfall did ch... May 8 2017, 02:26 PM Decrepit
Part of me does want a world the size of Daggerfa... May 9 2017, 01:46 AM RaderOfTheLostArk
Part of me does want a world the size of Daggerf... May 9 2017, 08:28 PM
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