Wolf Mods, Skyrim (and more!) for Oblivion Options

[Lena Wolf]

I mentioned this in a couple of other threads already, it started as a small "let me change this tree" idea, and has now grown into a proper project of mine. So I am starting this thread to share with you what I've been doing in the hope to get feedback and ideas well before the mod is in any shape or form ready for release.

First of all, this is an add-on for TWMP Skyrim Improved which is a part of the TWMP project that very ambitiously wants to bring the entire Tamriel into Oblivion. They've got pretty much everything covered, too! And I fully intend to load it all up and see what happens, but I started with Skyrim, and that needed some tweaks... or so I thought.

To install existing TWMP mods, start with TWMP Locations and follow the dependencies mentioned in the description. Then install High Detail Dynamic Map TWMP which gives you a proper map to use with Dynamic Map. Also recommended TWMP Skyrim Guard Armours and Shields. Then go play.

If you wanted to try installing the whole of Tamriel, including Elsweyr, Valenwood, Somerset Isle and Morrowind (Morroblivion), you are not alone - it is apparently possible! People have done it! With success! I'm not there yet, but here is a post explaining in which order you need to install the mods for it to work: How to bring all of Tamriel to Oblivion.

But back to Skyrim.

There are three roads from Cyrodiil into Skyrim:
- Eastern route: North from the Temple of the Ancestor Moths.
- Central route: North from the Cloud Ruler Temple.
- Western route: somewhere North West of the Shrine of Hermaeus Mora.

It may also be worth while talking to Agata at the Mages Guild in Leyawiin. Just saying.

I was impressed with TWMP Skyrim, but I wanted it to be more similar to Skyrim The Game. I have been exploring South East so far, so that's where I started - in what was supposed to be The Rift.

But it's not The Rift if it's filled with snow-covered white pines, it's got to have birches and aspens in autumnal colours. So I did that. Added grid paths to the land too, so that the roads are now recognised by the AI as well as by the player. Then I extended Riverwood and populated it with familiar characters - just pop in to The Sleeping Giant Inn.

Next on the list is Riften. There isn't a city there, and there needs to be one - because I say so. I've got a plan, now the fun of building can begin.

Some pictures to start with, I've got more, will add them shortly. This is already in my game, so it actually works, most of the times.

Map of Southern Skyrim

Trees in The Rift

Stairs to Riften Watch

Riften Watch. In the original TWMP Skyrim Improved this is actually Riften, but I decided to build a new Riften next to it. So then this area is a perfect spot to house some guards. Well, it was a perfect spot to house some guards...

Riften Watch after the Oblivion gate is closed

This post has been edited by Lena Wolf: Oct 11 2021, 03:53 PM

[Lena Wolf]

Macole, thanks for great testing! Again!

I can explain the strange things that you are seeing, but I shall verify any scripting in the CS tonight.

The bandits appear to be all persistent references rather than generic respawning ones, meaning that the moment you enter the cell for the first time, or the moment the NPCs are enabled by a script, their locations are recorded in your save file, so any changes to their locations introduced by a mod are ignored. These bandits then follow their AI schedules, which, judging by the screenshot showing them a distance away from the tents, are telling them to roam the area in a fairly large circle. When you return to the location, all NPC positions are taken from your save file, and then their AI schedules are applied. (This is roughly how it works, there are a number of finer points that I omitted, but it gives a general idea.)

This is why the bandits roam around to start with, eventually finding the new location of their camp and coming back to it. Unfortunately for Marek and his beautiful Blondie, they are stuck in the chasm and cannot get out. In this case Oblivion comes to the rescue - but only after some time. Oblivion lets them marinade in the chasm for a while, but when it transpires that they are unable to follow their AI schedules, the game fetches them and relocates them somewhere safe. Hence Marek eventually appearing, Blondie should follow at some point too. Note that Oblivion can easily let them marinade for 24 in-game hours before coming to the rescue (I've observed this a few times). In the worst case it can be full 3 days - the standard duration before a cell resets.

The same goes for the two bedrolls and sacks that didn't move - for some strange reason their coordinates were recorded in your save file, which is usually not the case for stationary objects. But there you go. It's Oblivion.

So, to test it cleanly, you would need a save from before you ever ventured into that area, and certainly from before their quest was started. If you don't have such a save, don't worry - I'll enable OOO in my game, put Lena in God Mode and go see for myself. Lena would never survive it as herself, I don't think.

Your testing with "dirty" saves is very important though, because this is what many people will see when they apply it. OOO generally says that you have to start a new game for it to work correctly, this may be because they make extensive use of persistent references, so things don't get moved when you apply a mod. This is just a suspicion though - but the stubborn bedrolls and sacks seem to confirm it. Or may be it was just a fluke with those sacks and bedrolls - who knows. The fact that their position was different between saves, shows that where they remained in the old position, that position was recorded in the save.

I can suggest one more test on a "dirty" save. Take the one where the bedrolls and sacks were positioned correctly but Marek and Blondie were stuck in the chasm. Enter area, walk around, kill whoever is present, save. Wait 24 hours. Walk around a bit more, and I would expect both Marek and Blondie to turn up after a little while - they should have been rescued by the game engine by now. So now you can kill them. If Marek is a "Quest Item", he may be extra persistent, with his location being recorded in the save file before everyone else's. If Blondie is scripted to follow him, it would explain her behaviour as well. But I need to check this in the CS.

When you were testing v1.0, you found Marek in the chasm cell. I think this was the rescue action by Oblivion. Rescues are not consistent.

This new location of the camp is going to be the definitive one because the location from v1.0 interferes with the road to Falkreath that I introduce in the upcoming release of TWMP Skyrim Alive, which also incorporates the chasm.

And by the way: path grids run right through the chasm already in the original mod, which would make NPCs suicidal trying to cross the chasm. This is fixed in my Skyrim Alive version of the chasm.

Once again - thank you so much for testing!

May I use your nice screenshot showing the camp and the chasm on the mod page, please? I haven't got any decent screenshots myself, the CS is not very good for it. Thanks in advance - but only if you agree, of course.

First test: Faulty update, operator error. Lost all my custom snowy rock textures, everything is black. Redid patch install and Bash Patch.

Strange - the patch does nothing to any textures! Do you always make a Bash Patch? I tried it a few times, but it consistently screwed things up for me, so I never use it. What happened is that it combined some of the things that should have been overwritten - and indeed were overwritten correctly if you just loaded the mods in the right order. The order that Wrye Bash figures out to be correct is not always all that correct, I found. Automatic things never are.

This post has been edited by Lena Wolf: Dec 7 2021, 10:46 AM