Abortion, Legal or Illiegal, poll and debate? Options

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

This is my position........

Abortion, unless done purely for the purposes of offsetting an imediate threat to the mother's life (choice 2) is murder by definition. Murder is the deliberate and pre-meditated killing of another human that is not done in self-defense. Upon what definition does a human fetus not constitute a human. It is the form taken by a human life at a certain stage of it's growth and development, it is not any other species therefore it is a human life. To draw an arbitery line in the sand at a certain point of the growth and development of a human life is ridiculous.

Sure the embryo at very early stages of it's development isn't conscious, but so what? Are we to excuse everyone who kills his victims say when in deep sleep, or while knocked out, on the basic that since they aren't presently conscious, they aren't officially human. The position of the embryo is exactly the same as the sleeping person, though they aren't conscious at present they will become so at a later point as their development reaches whatever mysterious point that they need to get too to become conscious. The fetus is thus 100% alive and 100% human and the process of abortion makes it 100% dead and 100% human, hence abortion is murder.

What about the other pro-abortion argument that the embryo/fetus constitutes a part of the woman's body. This doesn't make sense either. The embryo/fetus has a seperate genetic code (unless it's a clone) from it's mother and though it is totally dependant on it's mother for everything still constitutes a seperate entity inside the mothers body. If the fetus is considered part of the mother, that would mean that she can logically claim to be a bacterium, a virus, an intestinal worm or an ameoba, as all of these could also be inside her, along with millions of other parisites.

So abortion is murder.

[King Death]

I personally feel that abortion no matter what the circumtances are is wrong. If it were to danger the mother's life then i wouldn't condemn her if she did have an abortion, but I still feel that an inocent baby should have a chance to live.

And to the whole poor living conditions you can always put him/her up for adoption.

But all i have to say is this, if hate the idea of being a mother so much that you would kill to prevent it, DON'T HAVE SEX!

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

Why do I keep repeating the same arguments? Beacause you (the pro-choice crowd) consistantly fail to answer them, preffering to dodge the issue by discussing poverty, as though this is of relevance to a discussion about whether abortion is murder. When you do try to argue your case, I refute them with an argument of my own, as I am entitled to do I a debate. That you cannot respond to attacks on the coherancy of your arguments is your problem, not mine and it's no reason to accuse me of bieng dis-respectful just beacause you cannot logically protect your arguments against attack. And don't fall back on the "you don't have the life experiance to discuss abortion", it's just a clever cop-out from having to answer me with an argument. It is also not fair to criticise people on how "we have too much conviction", just beacause you cannot produce arguments that you can protect against even the most basic attacks is as I said your problem, when you cannot give arguments strong enough to sow doubt on our position, you can hardely be suprised.

The truth is that either abortion is murder, or it is not. If it is murder then all the other topics of debate, are hence irrelavent in either legalising it or banning it, it should be banned on principle. If it is not murder then this debate is more or less irrelavent, unless someone can come up with argument why abortion should be illiegal, for reasons other than it bieng murder. Our job is to give arguments why abortion is murder and rebuff your arguments, yours is to give argument of why it is not murder and rebuff our arguments. Arguing about the other topics, such as poverty, freedoms and so on, is only relevant if abortion is not murder, hence you can only argue from your veiwpoint, ie abortion is not murder, which explains why we consistantly keep coming back to the abortion is murder topic (our veiwpoint) and you keep trying to drag us into debates that are only relevant if your postion is correct. Try to prove the initial base of your argument (abortion is not murder) is correct through debate, before anything else, it would greatly improve the atmosphere in this forum.

This post has been edited by Slayer of Cliffracers: Aug 6 2005, 11:08 AM