Waiting4oblivion Parliament, lets try again, shall we? Options

[Burnt Sierra]

Right, a few rules before we start this time. No flaming. No intolerance of anybody else's viewpoint. No deciding you don't like the topic, and trying to tell people what they can discuss. This goes for everybody from now on.

Right, now we got the unpleasant bit out of the way, lets begin anew shall we?

p.s. yes Channler, those were the original rules, but seeing as how everyone seemed to forget them last time, I thought I'd make a little pointed reminder.

[Stargazey]

Joke Doomed. It wasa joke. I could care less about where you or anyone complains or "debates."

As for stargazey with his quote from Thomas Jefferson. You use that quote against me as if Thommas Jefferson was a radical who would believe in what you think is wrong today. There is no way to prove that if he saw what was going on today he would stick with his statement or go against it. So I find that not a valid excuse for Dissent or "debating."

The world has changed so much that if we stuck to statements like that today then the world would be in chaos. Some statements still ring true though. We just need to find them, get a understanding about them that would benifit the majority of us and make it work.

So, by that logic, the constitution is arcane, isn't it?

We should try that here... How about we start with Free speech?
I don't know. It seems that she is a little...  . I mean, Listen to this.

"I want to ask the president, why did he kill my son?" Sheehan told reporters. "He said my son died in a noble cause, and I want to ask him what that noble cause is."

The presient did not kill your son. One of those good for nothing militia men did it!

The noble cause? As I have stated over and over. the noble cause is freedom. Freedom for the peope of Iraq. He was there helping those people out and giving them more of a chance to live a better life. We all know about the WMD reason because its the only one the news will talk about(because all of the other reasons are valid to most of us). The WMDs were not the reason he died. Shes just doesn't understand it. Were not here for WMDs anymore. If we were would we still be here?

"He wouldn't look at the pictures of Casey. He didn't even know Casey's name," she told CNN Sunday. "Every time we tried to talk about Casey and how much we missed him, he would change the subject."

  "I want him to honor my son by bringing the troops home immediately," Sheehan told reporters Saturday. "I don't want him to use my son's name or my name to justify any more killing."

If she wants to talk about her son then let her come talk to us. I bet she wont now or even after we come back. She wants to blame it all on the president. Theres nothing more honorable then being buried with a american flag over you and a twenty one gun salute.

The message also urges Bush to send his twin daughters, Jenna and Barbara, to Iraq "if the cause is so noble."

Thats somthing they would have to decide to do. If you didn't want your sons or daughters to come then you should have tried to stop them. If they didn't listen to you then its not the presidents fault, nor the mothers or fathers, nor the commanders. Its the mans fault that killed your kid. No one elses.

I know how the womans feels. Not from personal experiance but from outside experiance. I have spent many times going to houses in the past and telling parents why their child died. I've seen it dozens of times and know how to comfort them. I feel her responsibility to go to the president and ask her questions but... then again she is letting the grief of her sons death get the better of her. The test for that was when  Joe Hagin, White House deputy chief of staff, and Stephen Hadley, national security adviser, met with her to tell her what the reason was.

She failed that test when she told them she didn't want to believe what they were saying. You know what would have happened if she met with the president after failing that test? She would have given the president the same answer she gave those two men. She might have even goten violent, which is somthing that happens alot(from personal experiance again).

So im in favor of not letting her see the president. She got her answer from the advisors and she turned them down showing that she would have done the same to the president when he told her the same thing the advisors did. Overall? She needs the commander of her dead son to go and tell her what happened, how, when and why. Not the president.

What does Bush lose by talking to her? Bush killed her son by sending him to an unjust war.


And he wants to arrest her as a threat to National Security. Yeah, you know how violent those greiving mothers are.

Okay

Thomas Jefferson's statement rings true today.  You can't ignore the statements you disagree with and say the ones you do agree with are timeless.  I believe that quote goes side by side democracy, and therefore that quote is as timeless as democracy.  That is the root of democracy, that the people are in control.  The people choose.  Leaders are supposed to be JUST representatives.  If they do not represent my ideals, I'll exercize my freedom of dissent.  Dissent is not only a right, but a responsibility for those of us living in a democracy.  In this day and age, Jefferson's statement rings truer than before, because dissent is more necessary today, where checks and balances have been overturned, and bribery are not only accepted, but a norm for government officials.

Mrs. Sheehan is doing a completely admirable thing right now.  The Iraq war is unjustified, and those soldiers are dying for corporate causes, that's where the evidence I see points to, that's what I've deduced.  Obviously she won't accept the answer from advisors, because they're advisors.  See, let me break it down, she's not looking for reassurance that her son died for a noble cause, she flat out doesn't buy it.  She wants Bush to come face to face with what he is doing.  She's not going to get violent, this protest is really about Bush, not her.  He can stay in his hole and not face the truth is he wants to, and probably will if he can avoid it, typical.

Nice post DoomedOne, I agree with everything you said.