Waiting4oblivion Parliament, lets try again, shall we? Options

[Burnt Sierra]

Right, a few rules before we start this time. No flaming. No intolerance of anybody else's viewpoint. No deciding you don't like the topic, and trying to tell people what they can discuss. This goes for everybody from now on.

Right, now we got the unpleasant bit out of the way, lets begin anew shall we?

p.s. yes Channler, those were the original rules, but seeing as how everyone seemed to forget them last time, I thought I'd make a little pointed reminder.

[Red]

If being against the goverment isn't patriotic, would you say that the Americans who fought against the government for a better life to create America where not true patriots?

Patriotism: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it. If someone burns a flag and goes to jail whilg saying that the country they used to love and believe in has to change, would that not make them patriots?

Patriotism: The act of being loyal to one’s country, especially in periods of national turmoil, such as war. However, there are many disagreements over what constitutes a patriotic person, exemplified over the burning of the flag. If patriotism is being loyal to your country and it's government, would that not mean that those who followed the orders of Sadam Husein when he was in power were patriots?

Also, you said "Typical of you anti war people to try and slam the blame on the one who you don't like.". If I join the American army to protect my country, get shipped off to an un-just war, and get shot to death, would the blame not even reach Bush? Could Bush not have stopped my death by retreating when he found out the whole reason he went to war wasn't in Iraq? I think the death of every US Iraq war soldier lays on his hands.

I was watching 60 minutes yesterday, and they were talking about the US military fundings. The US has spent so much money on submarines (which can't be used in Iraq and are now out dated, battle ships (all of the decomisioned after zero days of action, also outdated), tanks (Made useless by Stryker vehicles, are slow and are easy targets for RPGs), 41 different types of bombers (about a billion dollers for each plane, America owns hundreds though it is probably more, only 4 types were used in Iraq/Afghanastan), fighter planes (either zero of close two zero were used, the rest are soaking up taxpayer money to be kept in plane graveyards) and various other wepons and vehicles (even though ifantry troops are used much more in war), that if America used the war money, they could have bought their way out of the defeceit. They could also give money back to the taxpayers (alot of money) without even being close to the defeceit, researched alternative fuels, put many more people into schools, lowered university and colledge prices dramatically and could have made a much better ifantry strike force that would lose very little soldiers in battle.

Those are my views, and if you don't agree with them, please voice that. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and would like to see people excirsizing that entitlement like we have done so in this thread. I hope my views don't make me seem any less or more of a good person to anyone that agrees or disagrees with me, because you should never judge a man by his political stance.

[jonajosa]

gone

This post has been edited by jonajosa: Aug 11 2005, 04:19 AM

[Red]

I wish others would feel the same as you... I am agreed to that. So don't like me less for my opinions.

That's a good thing, I like having discussions with people who dissagree with me, but on most forums, all I get is YUR GAY!!1 BUSH IS TEH GOD AND JESUS AGREES!!11!! YOU H8 JESUS!!1, so it is good to see civilized discussions about politics in a forum that nurtures our thoughts, opinions and ideas.

[jonajosa]

That's a good thing, I like having discussions with people who dissagree with me, but on most forums, all I get is YUR GAY!!1 BUSH IS TEH GOD AND JESUS AGREES!!11!! YOU H8 JESUS!!1, so it is good to see civilized discussions about politics in a forum that nurtures our thoughts, opinions and ideas.

you'll find that I am not one to insult someone like that. If however I do insult someone it wil usally be over PM so the "public" doesn't get invloved. I too enjoy talking with peopl e who dissagree with me which is why im here now.

Some of my "best" friends here on the forum happen to be the people I don't understand. Like Stargazey or Doomed. I like those guys because of those reasons.


Call me Jesus freak. Someone who ties his political opinions in with what the bible says. Which is somthing I hope people will not like me less for.

[Red]

you'll find that I am not one to insult someone like that. If however I do insult someone it wil usally be over PM so the "public" doesn't get invloved. I too enjoy talking with peopl e who dissagree with me which is why im here now.

Some of my "best" friends here on the forum happen to be the people I don't understand. Like Stargazey or Doomed. I like those guys because of those reasons.
Call me Jesus freak.    Someone who ties his political opinions in with what the bible says. Which is somthing I hope people will not like me less for. 

Really? In that case, Jesus voted for Jonh Kerry. Hahaha! I win!