The Unbeliever, Oblivion's moral issues Options

[DoomedOne]

So a tiny thing brought up in the main forums are the ideas of moral values.

In The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson the main character chooses not to accept this dream world as reality and therefore finds it okay to rape a young girl.

In the main forum this topic was slashed and flamed in all three threads it made an appearance because people did not understand the idea. It's simple, if you accept a world as fake, whether you realize you're dreaming, or you're in a video game, do the moral laws you would usually uphold yourself to still stand? Would you suddenly find it okay to exercise the most evil, atrocious side of your personality and find it pleasurable, to your character, at least, to murder and mutilate?

This question has a bigger purpose, but first I'd like some people's opinions on where they stand when it comes to morality and video games. If they created a video game where the suffering of your victims looked parallel to if you were performing the act in real life, would you still be able to go through with it?

This post has been edited by DoomedOne: Sep 8 2005, 12:37 AM

[Kindred Spirit]

Neela- I may be a kid, but I've played pong too. O.o

DoomedOne- Yes, you are right. At least about everything except that nobody is trying to claim that video games cause violence. Certainly none of us have, but out in the real world, there is at least Jack Thompson. So, nobody sane is trying to say that video games cause violence.
Yes, there is a correlation between my brother's stance on life and his habits. I've noticed it, and just from what I said, you noticed it too. Pretty obvious. Yet he doesn't know why I shake my head when he says things like that. I've explained it to him, and he thinks that he is in the majority group of the population in most areas. Almost frightening, really. Maybe I should sleep with my eyes open from now on, in case I piss him off...
Maybe what you said about T.V. is the key to this. I'm not saying he should be like me, but what he is is almost frightening. I grew up watching Barney and Sesame Street, since that's pretty much all the kid's shows that were on when I was little. He grew up watching Power Rangers, action movies, violent cartoons and grade-b horror flicks.
And you were absolutely right about my topic. I. Was. Flamed. Even the long time forum goers disagreed with me, which was fine and what I expected. However, the ammount of people who simply disreguarded my idea of out hand with statements like, "no. u suck. go play tetris," was a little frightening. Well, you got it. Want some kind of prize?

Aki- Yeah, that's pretty much my attitude as well.

And back to the riginal question, and trying to steer the discussion back to what DoomedOne was asking originally-

It's simple, if you accept a world as fake, whether you realize you're dreaming, or you're in a video game, do the moral laws you would usually uphold yourself to still stand? Would you suddenly find it okay to exercise the most evil, atrocious side of your personality and find it pleasurable, to your character, at least, to murder and mutilate?

That is a good question. Philosophers could debate this point forever with no conclusion. Logic supports both sides, as well as more emotional reasons.
Yes, morals in videogames:
Logic: Of course. We can't prove the world itself isn't real. How is a dreamworld different? How do we know we don't have it backwards, and the "real" world is the dream, and the "dream" world is real?
No, moral standards in videogames should differ from morals in real life:
Logic: Is every person who plays Halo/Counterstrike/etcetera a murderer? A dream is a dream, fantasy is fantasy.

My answer is:
Yes, we should hold ourselves to the same morals as we do in real life. THis is a list of the morals I can think of that I hold in real life. It isn't a list of morals that everyone should have, as different faiths and such believe different things.
Morals:
-Don't kill except in self defense or if killing is necesary for survival, or if it will prevent an immediate cruel fate. (example of last one: In a series of books by Robert Newcomb, The Chronicles of Blood and Stone, the main character, Prince Tristan,is forced to behead his father, King Nicolaus. Enemy troops have surrounded and defeated them all, and have given him an ultimatum. Kill his father quickly and painlessly, or they will torture him to death.)
-Don't do something to a person unless they want it done. (rape, leaving a person alive but connected to tubes when they have told you that they would rather die than live like that)
-Be respectful to everyone, until such a time as they do something to cause you to lose respect for them. Do not make people earn your respect, rather, give it to them freely, and then take it back if they do something you cannot or will not condone.
-Be respectful towards other people's beliefs, do not tell them, "No, you are wrong. The truth is_____."
-Help others when they need help.
-Do not spurn or shun others for having a different set of morals than you, unless this is simply a person with no morals, or who enjoys doing things that are wrong by almost any set of morals. (murder, rape, ect...)
-Do not disrespect others for not being as good as you are at something, rather, help them. Do not get angry at someone for being better than you at something, rather, learn from them.
-Do not lie, except for little white lies. (No, you're not balding. No you're not fat.)
That's all I can think of for now, maybe I'll think of others later.

If they created a video game where the suffering of your victims looked parallel to if you were performing the act in real life, would you still be able to go through with it?

No, I don't think I could.