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Soulseeker3.0
post Dec 20 2005, 04:34 AM
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Hey what are all you gonna do with Christmas (if you celebrate it)?

I'm going to see family Christmas day....


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Megil Tel-Zeke
post Dec 21 2005, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE
The Origin of the Date
The Gospels. Concerning the date of Christ's birth the Gospels give no help; upon their data contradictory arguments are based. The census would have been impossible in winter: a whole population could not then be put in motion. Again, in winter it must have been; then only field labour was suspended. But Rome was not thus considerate. Authorities moreover differ as to whether shepherds could or would keep flocks exposed during the nights of the rainy season.

Zachary's temple service. Arguments based on Zachary's temple ministry are unreliable, though the calculations of antiquity (see above) have been revived in yet more complicated form, e.g. by Friedlieb (Leben J. Christi des Erlösers, Münster, 1887, p. 312). The twenty-four classes of Jewish priests, it is urged, served each a week in the Temple; Zachary was in the eighth class, Abia. The Temple was destroyed 9 Ab, A.D. 70; late rabbinical tradition says that class 1, Jojarib, was then serving. From these untrustworthy data, assuming that Christ was born A.U.C. 749, and that never in seventy turbulent years the weekly succession failed, it is calculated that the eighth class was serving 2-9 October, A.U.C. 748, whence Christ's conception falls in March, and birth presumably in December. Kellner (op. cit., pp. 106, 107) shows how hopeless is the calculation of Zachary's week from any point before or after it.

Analogy to Old Testament festivals. It seems impossible, on analogy of the relation of Passover and Pentecost to Easter and Whitsuntide, to connect the Nativity with the feast of Tabernacles, as did, e.g., Lightfoot (Horĉ Hebr, et Talm., II, 32), arguing from Old Testament prophecy, e.g. Zacharias 14:16 sqq,; combining, too, the fact of Christ's death in Nisan with Daniel's prophecy of a three and one-half years' ministry (9:27), he puts the birth in Tisri, i.e. September. As undesirable is it to connect 25 December with the Eastern (December) feast of Dedication (Jos. Ant. Jud., XII, vii, 6).

Natalis Invicti. The well-known solar feast, however, of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date. For the history of the solar cult, its position in the Roman Empire, and syncretism with Mithraism, see Cumont's epoch-making "Textes et Monuments" etc., I, ii, 4, 6, p. 355. Mommsen (Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum, 12, p. 338) has collected the evidence for the feast, which reached its climax of popularity under Aurelian in 274. Filippo del Torre in 1700 first saw its importance; it is marked, as has been said, without addition in Philocalus' Calendar. It would be impossible here even to outline the history of solar symbolism and language as applied to God, the Messiah, and Christ in Jewish or Chrisian canonical, patristic, or devotional works. Hymns and Christmas offices abound in instances; the texts are well arranged by Cumont (op. cit., addit. Note C, p. 355).

The earliest rapprochement of the births of Christ and the sun is in Cypr., "De pasch. Comp.", xix, "O quam prĉclare providentia ut illo die quo natus est Sol . . . nasceretur Christus." - "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born . . . Christ should be born." - In the fourth century, Chrysostom, "del Solst. Et Ĉquin." (II, p. 118, ed. 1588), says: "Sed et dominus noster nascitur mense decembris . . . VIII Kal. Ian. . . . Sed et Invicti Natalem appelant. Quis utique tam invictus nisi dominus noster? . . . Vel quod dicant Solis esse natalem, ipse est Sol iustitiĉ." - "But Our Lord, too, is born in the month of December . . . the eight before the calends of January [25 December] . . ., But they call it the 'Birthday of the Unconquered'. Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord . . .? Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun, He is the Sun of Justice." Already Tertullian (Apol., 16; cf. Ad. Nat., I, 13; Orig. c. Cels., VIII, 67, etc) had to assert that Sol was not the Christians' God; Augustine (Tract xxxiv, in Joan. In P. L., XXXV, 1652) denounces the heretical indentification of Christ with Sol. Pope Leo I (Serm. xxxvii in nat. dom., VII, 4; xxii, II, 6 in P. L., LIV, 218 and 198) bitterly reproves solar survivals -- Christians, on the very doorstep of the Apostles' basilica, turn to adore the rising sun. Sun-worship has bequeathed features to modern popular worship in Armenia, where Chistians had once temporarily and externally conformed to the cult of the material sun (Cumont, op. cit., p. 356).

But even should a deliberate and legitimate "baptism" of a pagan feast be seen here no more than the transference of the date need be supposed. The "mountain-birth" of Mithra and Christ's in the "grotto" have nothing in common: Mithra's adoring shepherds (Cumont, op. cit., I, ii, 4, p. 304 sqq.) are rather borrowed from Christian sources than vice versa.

Other theories of pagan origin. The origin of Christmas should not be sought in the Saturnalia (1-23 December) nor even in the midnight holy birth at Eleusis (see J.E. Harrison, Prolegom., p. 549) with its probable connection through Phrygia with the Naasene heretics, or even with the Alexandrian ceremony quoted above; nor yet in rites analogous to the midwinter cult at Delphi of the cradled Dionysus, with his revocation from the sea to a new birth (Harrison, op. cit., 402 sqq.).

The astronomical theory. Duchesne (Les origines du culte chrétien, Paris, 1902, 262 sqq.) advances the "astronomical" theory that, given 25 March as Christ's death-day [historically impossible, but a tradition old as Tertullian (Adv. Jud., 8)], the popular instinct, demanding an exact number of years in a Divine life, would place His conception on the same date, His birth 25 December. This theory is best supported by the fact that certain Montanists (Sozomen, Hist. Eccl., VII, 18) kept Easter on 6 April; both 25 December and 6 January are thus simultaneously explained. The reckoning, moreover, is wholly in keeping with the arguments based on number and astronomy and "convenience", then so popular. Unfortunately, there is no contemporary evidence for the celebration in the fourth century of Christ's conception on 25 March.

Conclusion. The present writer in inclined to think that, be the origin of the feast in East or West, and though the abundance of analogous midwinter festivals may indefinitely have helped the choice of the December date, the same instinct which set Natalis Invicti at the winter solstice will have sufficed, apart from deliberate adaptation or curious calculation, to set the Christian feast there too.


Taken from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

This post has been edited by Megil Tel-Zeke: Dec 21 2005, 05:28 AM


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Posts in this topic
Soulseeker3.0   Christmas   Dec 20 2005, 04:34 AM
Megil Tel-Zeke   Staying at home with my mom and sis. Then going t...   Dec 20 2005, 04:39 AM
Intestinal Chaos   Ahhh, have to love bastardized pagan holidays. Pe...   Dec 20 2005, 06:35 AM
Lizard   Christmas is NOT a pagan holiday!!!   Dec 20 2005, 08:59 PM
Soulseeker3.0   well in a way it was and it was adopted by the ch...   Dec 20 2005, 10:43 PM
Kindred Spirit   I'll be sitting around with my families, being...   Dec 20 2005, 08:43 AM
vaanic~one   1. get wasted. 2. stay wasted.   Dec 20 2005, 04:30 PM
Rane   It'll probably be another calm Christmas for o...   Dec 20 2005, 07:03 PM
Vinya   the usual, hang out with family, eat a yummy Chris...   Dec 20 2005, 10:10 PM
Kindred Spirit   Hm, good to know somebody gets to have fun... *po...   Dec 20 2005, 10:51 PM
Intestinal Chaos   Mostly I try to avoid my family as much as possibl...   Dec 21 2005, 01:16 AM
Kindred Spirit   Jeez, Intestinal Chaos, sound like you have it wor...   Dec 21 2005, 05:07 AM
Dantrag   I seem to be the only one with a cool family. I ...   Dec 22 2005, 11:55 PM
minque   Nice to hear you like to be with your family Danny...   Dec 23 2005, 12:03 AM
Channler   I love it how so many people have problems with th...   Dec 23 2005, 12:14 AM
Soulseeker3.0   lol yes I know how that works... thats why I know...   Dec 23 2005, 12:26 AM
Channler   Buwahaha... Sure :P :D   Dec 23 2005, 01:30 AM
Soulseeker3.0   :ninja: yeah.... but anyways my family is normal, ...   Dec 23 2005, 01:39 AM
Megil Tel-Zeke   I love getting together with Family ^_^. especia...   Dec 23 2005, 02:04 AM
Channler   Thats cool. My family and I were going to go to...   Dec 23 2005, 02:06 AM
Red   Too bad to hear so many people have such awkward f...   Dec 23 2005, 03:01 AM
Florodine of Hlaalu   I love christmas, my family is normal, the only pr...   Dec 23 2005, 04:35 AM
Kindred Spirit   I just got all my Christmas shopping done. I had ...   Dec 23 2005, 07:10 AM
Channler   BUWAHA! It might be because its really late....   Dec 23 2005, 08:31 AM
FreshJive787   well, christmas is basically the catholics winter ...   Dec 23 2005, 08:56 AM
stargelinho   5 years ago, christmas was mainly an excuse to get...   Dec 23 2005, 09:09 AM
minque   Hehe, how that sounds familiar....but you lucky ...   Dec 23 2005, 02:10 PM
Channler   Heh.. of course you have to do christmas.. After...   Dec 23 2005, 08:36 PM
Tellie   Oh I will stay with my families. 1 Chriastmas ev...   Dec 23 2005, 03:16 PM
minque   Ok all you great people on these forums.....now Ch...   Dec 24 2005, 12:26 AM
Wolfie   became christmas eve 8 minutes ago, so to you all:...   Dec 24 2005, 01:08 AM
Soulseeker3.0   ...bah, Christmas Eve wont be here for 5 hours and...   Dec 24 2005, 01:40 AM
Channler   And it'll be Christmas Eve in... 24 mins here...   Dec 24 2005, 05:36 AM
Kindred Spirit   BUWAHA! It might be because its really late.....   Dec 24 2005, 05:47 AM
Intestinal Chaos   Here's the post-morning update Christmas with...   Dec 25 2005, 11:29 PM
Wurlon   We just opened gifts on Christmas Eve and went to ...   Dec 26 2005, 05:18 PM
Dantrag   I feel kinda bad, but not really. I bought my br...   Dec 26 2005, 07:23 PM
minque   Aww Danny...why do you feel bad then? I hope you´...   Dec 26 2005, 07:48 PM
Wolfie   I was pleasantly surprised this Christmas, because...   Dec 26 2005, 10:00 PM
minque   Why that´s great Wolfie!, It´s the best to h...   Dec 26 2005, 10:15 PM
Wolfie   Funny part is, i already had 2 dvd players techni...   Dec 26 2005, 11:08 PM
Dantrag   I got... Some CDs, a sweatshirt, a guitar pedal, ...   Dec 26 2005, 10:37 PM
Florodine of Hlaalu   My christmas was great. I got, battlefront 2, Gun,...   Dec 27 2005, 01:19 AM
Soulseeker3.0   wow you are lucky I didn't get half of that st...   Dec 27 2005, 02:34 AM
Kindred Spirit   Well, my Christmas was...interesting. First I we...   Dec 27 2005, 02:56 AM
Tellie   Hi, I got the X-box 360, and Morrowind to the norm...   Dec 27 2005, 04:31 PM
minque   Congrats! to it all, including the "aun...   Dec 27 2005, 04:41 PM
burntsierra   Well, I had the wierdest Xmas in memory. Went home...   Dec 27 2005, 04:45 PM
Dantrag   I'll be your dog. (I can't remember his ...   Dec 27 2005, 07:42 PM
minque   He´s got a dog? Burnie got a dog? Oh my...... :O...   Dec 27 2005, 07:54 PM
Kindred Spirit   No, the Grinch's dog. See, Wonder if I can ...   Dec 28 2005, 01:44 AM
minque   Ehhh hmm I might have heard of it.....the name...   Dec 28 2005, 07:23 PM
Kindred Spirit   No need to be embarrassed. You might have heard o...   Dec 28 2005, 07:40 PM
minque   Thanks Kindred! yup I´ve seen it, but it´s n...   Dec 28 2005, 07:53 PM
Kindred Spirit   No problem. I live to serve. *Deep bow* *falls fl...   Dec 28 2005, 08:09 PM


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