Chorrol Parliament, Be civil please.. Options

[Channler]

Ok....

Why?
USA is not perfect.

Correct! But neither is any one country in the world. Comparing USA to China is like comparing watermelons to cantalopes (I think thats what their called.. ) however comparing the US to the UK is like comparing a watermelon and a grapefruit.

They are all fruit.. But some are much bigger and different then the others. Population make ups are so different that it is unfair to compare them. Some of our corporations are richer then most african countries combined.. what does that tell you?

I think you didn't understand my point.They will provide you only if you're willing to work or take education.OR if you're sick and unable to work.
Now telling me that a country with such capacityes as USA can't temporarily provide money to those who can't make it at the moment......I'm not convinced.
There is an old chinese saying:
''Give a man a fish,and you fed him for one day.Teach a man how to catch a fish,and you fed him for his whole life.''
In modernt terms it would be:Give me money and i'll have money for one day.Teach me how to make money and i'll have money for a lifetime.

USA should be able to provide poor people education and some money while they're at school ,and make them capable to work.Or find them a job,which is even better.
Country gives you money when you need it.But when you start working,you will actualy return that money to the state via taxes you can now pay wink.gif

Yes, temporarily we can provide aid. And that is exactly what it should be used for. One blow can severly cripple your family, I know. I've been there. However there are many people that take advantage of this system, and it happens in every free enviroment. People that won't work and have children just so they get more money.. and my tax money goes to supporting them! I hate that thought.

And the old chinese proverb is wonderous too. But people (in America) nowadays are either A) wanna live the thug, white trash, and bum life Are to conservative and believe in their own superiority, and C) Liberals that think we should give alot more to group A) We have free "forced" education untill your 16, then you can decide if you want to stick with it or not. However, in my school alone 1/3 of my entire class is not expected to graduate. Why? Is it because welfare? No it is because of the decay of moral society and affirmative action.

Bottom line is that people are growing lazy and are looking for handouts. When the US stopped providing aid to Tawian their economy BOOMED. Why? Because it was either become a part of China, or work your boat off and become independent. Their ecomony and way of life was stagnant because they didn't have to do anything! The US was providing all the cash for it!

I admire that.
But i think that the state should have helped them.
At least provided them with a decent place to stay.
And i don't mean shalter!
I mean a decent small apartment.

Err.. Shelter doesn't always mean like a tin shack or something. A homeless shelter generally is a fairly decent place with showers and bathrooms and of course cooking areas.

Yes indeed.The way i was told,USA is great in some things,but it's horrible for something else.Homeless disscusion is a good example here.

For example my cousin (who lives and works in USA),tells me that you can make good money in the states,but if you get sick you're in big trouble.The hospital prices are huge,and his health insurance can't cover that (he says he has a good health ensurance).Maybe you as an American can tell me mre about this subject?

I would agree for you their. Medical care is incredibly expensive here.. But do you know why? Its because your have these NO CLASS citizens that will sue a doctor because they believe something went wrong! So a doctor needs 9+ years of training to find it safe to practice. But after nine years of school (and school bills) wouldn't you expect a little pay-up? And what about that emergency fund incase a person decides to sue you for reasons you can't stop? Who do I blame? The idiots that let court cases like that win. And that usually happens to be pro-liberal judges.

There is no winning.. I'm loosing faith. Maybe I should become a monk or something.. at least they won't tell me how GWB looks like a monkey.

[milanius]

Please forgive the seemingly endless line of quotes, but this is a good thread right here. Here we go:

Seeing this is about politics and all, I was wondering what peoples' stance was on fringe politics. For example, I would cite the BNP (that is the British National Party, though most people say they are Nazis). They are a strongly right wing party that has constant allegations of race hate, and holocaust denial. In their manifesto they say that parents should be able to vote on if homosexuality should be taught as acceptable or not, and they want only one school meal - banning Halal and Kosher meals (they say it's barbaric).

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is that they're back in the press, as always, being rather publicity hungry. They won a few (nowhere NEAR the amount the main parties won) seats, and they're saying all kinds of stuff now. The student union is always pushing stuff through my door about how we should ban the BNP and condemn them etc. Now, I don't support the BNP, or their politics (personally I think their policies are stupid, and I don't really believe that they don't have serious national socialist leanings). I don't like the way that they campaign by commenting (in fairness, quite often truthfully) on passages in the Koran, and the history of Islam and saying how it's an evil religion. Basically I don't like 'em. But... I live in a democracy with free speech. So I also don't think that anyone has a right to try and stop them from saying their opinions - even the hipocrites that cite freedom of speech as their right to campaign to try and stop the BNP.

So really, does a democracy have the right to ban an alleged group of Nazi Hatemongers, if they haven't broken the law? Where does freedom of speech end, and the right to protect citizens against harmful distortions and rhetoric begin?

Don't ban the fools, just ignore them, but not let them slip out of your mind - if so, they will try to get more support and become a threat to democracy. As far as it goes I will always take democracy, with all its flaws, before totalitarian regime.

Recently there was a Nazi/KKK type skinhead group who planned a rally and march right through the main street of a well known depressed black district that recently has been getting tax money spent there to improve things.
The police went around and distributed flyers and told all the residents of that district not to use that street or go near it during the hours of the skinhead march. So that they had their rally but it was quite lame because they really staged it there to stir up trouble and there was none.

Good call. Don't give hatemongers the reason to start trouble and there will be none

I know Americans are very patriotic and all that, but a flag is just a piece of cloth. I know, I know... It's the symbol of your country, but it's still a piece of cloth. The real country - and what you should be saluting - is its citizens and their achievements and the people who built/is building the country.

'Hanging' is acceptable (in my book) for deliberately killing innocent people and abusing children, not for burning cloth.

If someone burns your flag, simply turn the other cheek and raise a new flag. Wars have probably been started by people getting angry about flagburning. If noone got angry with flagburning, there would be no more flagburning, simple as that.

A good wiew, and it describes my own thoughts well. However... if an american (or, for that matter, any country's) citisen burns his own national flag one has to wonder: why does that kind of thing happen - is it because too much freedom or too little freedom ? And what if someone turns (like Hippies back in 60's)flag into clothes ? Is that similar disrespect ? Personally, I believe there should be some kind of penalty for flag burning, on a worldwide level, because it is a sort of treason to disrespect your own country like that... but public shootings and hangings are just a bit much.

As far as flag burning goes... I get more upset by it when its done by a fellow American.  America is by far and large of land of many differing opinions, none of them are anymore valid than another.  When I see an American burning the flag because they don't believe in one or more policies I tend to think very little of that person's side of the fight.  To me they are the ones willing to trash an icon of their own country for their single minded purpose. 

As far as seeing others in other countries burning our flag... It doesn't upset me at all.  Most of those that are doing it are doing it for no other reason than they think it will upset us.  They generally have no idea whatsoever about this country and how it operates beyond their own narrow view of things they have been manipulated to believe.

They're burning American flags in Iran, Palestine, Serbia... not because they don't know (or want to know) how USA operates; heck, not even to upset anyone. They do it because of hate - plain and simple. USA has to make its foreign policies more pacific and just take away reasons for that hatret from the nationalists worldwide - that way, a road toward understanding can be paved.

Burning Flags?
American Flags?
Well, I saw a lot of that back in 1999, when we were under bombardment from USA.
To be completly honest, back then i hated USA, and everything related to USA. Especialy their pilots. My father went fighting on Kosovo against Albanians, and i wasn't afraid than he will die from an Albanian bullet, I was afraid he will get wiped with an USA missile. Those were tough times back then when Americans were ''saving'' us from Slobodan Milošević. Hmph. ''Mercyful Angel'' was a code name of the operation. I don't know what's so mercyful in destroying two blocks of civilian buildings and call it ''collateral damage''.
This I can forgive, but i can never forget. Never
Sorry, I'm rambling

One of my brothers went to fight Albanian terrorists back in '99. right on the Kosovo border. Night before his unit was shipped for that damn place their barracs in Nish (my hometown) were bombed, but fortunately no one was killed. After that episode at the very beginning of 'intervention', we have endured several tough months and in the end no one on both sides acomplished nothing. Milosevic just handed out Kosovo (just like anyone with 1/2 brain KNEW he'd do) and we all now have a bitter taste in our mouths. Back in WW2 USA and Serbia were allies and we fought against Axis together, but today many older folk here just have a blind hatret toward anything american, save the Coke But at least I can see all the shades of gray perfectly. Do I hate America, in general ? No. I hate certain america politicians and military leaders, but I can't hate all Americans - that would mean I'd have to hate Stargazey, Magnus, Zarrexaij... and about 250M people who had done nothing to me or my country... and that's just silly.
However, this is no rambling. And I can't and won't forget.

Nationalism is not bad. Please disreguard the idea that it is.

Communism is not bad either. Neither is a dictatorship. What we make of it creates if it is to be considered bad.

Don't you mean Patriotism?

I don't know who exactly said this, but someone with political University should recognise this sentence. He was the greatest enemy of communism.
''In theory, Communism is the best social system, but it's realisation leeds to doom''
Very well said.

Please, DO NOT confuse Nationalism with Patriotism. While Patriotism focuses on glorification and love of one's country by focusing on its good sides, Nationalism does that by demeaning ALL OTHER nations and countries. Nationalism is bad, trust me.
Communism ? It is a good system - in theory. In reality, corruption eats away everything and ultimately creates social injustice. I know this because I still live in such country IMHO, the best social systems are ones that exist in Norway and Sweden - and that is moderate social-democratic system (center).

This post has been edited by milanius: May 15 2006, 06:21 PM