A Discussion on Ethics Options

[DoomedOne]

Due to the flame war I started in the Coffee Shop (more like a flame execution) by merely discussing my day, I think it's clear something of this magnitude should be given it's own topic, so here it is.

I'll give some rules:

No flaming and no disrespect. All standard forum rules hold here. This is a thread for people's personal discussions on ethics and justification for their actions. I know people can feel very strongly about these sorts of things but no one has the right to insult or attack people instead of their ideas. Also, for those being attacked, remember don't mistake an attack on your ideas as an attack on you.

So this was spawned due to this idea: Is there any justification in stealing?

[mplantinga]

Since you've opened the "ethics" can-of-worms, I'll give it a shot.

People tend to perceive me as fairly rigid when it comes to ethics. Stealing is always bad, just like murder is always bad. Whether or not something is a crime depends not on the circumstances, but on the law. The law says stealing is a crime, so stealing is a crime. Circumstances do not excuse bad behavior or criminal activity.

Okay, having said that, there are situations in which all possible actions are ethically bad. Killing is clearly wrong, but it may be the best choice if it is the only way to avoid being killed yourself. (This is, of course, assuming that one's own death is ethically bad, which could be an entire argument in itself). This does not mean that killing in self defense is okay, as in ethically excusable. Your actions still lead to the death of another, which is always undesirable.

But perhaps killing is a bit too extreme an example for the current discussion. It may be more relevant to consider a situation in which someone needs to steal to survive. Ethically, this person is still stealing, and stealing is always bad. But, they are faced with an impossible situation where their choices are death or stealing. If I were in that situation, I would probably steal also. But that doesn't mean that stealing would be justified. It would simply be understandable.

In short, stealing is never justified.

-planty

(I do expect a great degree of disagreement. I look forward to hearing your arguments.)