The Connivers of Bosmora, (a redo) Options

[redsrock]

Ald'ruhn was totally destroyed according to the Lore from Oblivion - another Siege machine like Kvatch came through a gate there

What does that have to do with my story?

[raggidman]

Ah well, you were saying that the old geyser ran from Mournhold (a substantially Indoril stronghold despite the Hlaalu pretender) because he was exiled from Hllalu. and you tell me he ran to the Hlaalu Town of Caldera.

Not sure how else I could put it. ?

This post has been edited by raggidman: May 6 2008, 01:59 PM

[redsrock]

Ah well, you were saying that the old geyser ran from Mournhold (a substantially Indoril stronghold despite the Hlaalu pretender) because he was exiled from Hllalu. and you tell me he ran to the Hlaalu Town of Caldera.

Not sure how else I could put it. ?

O, well okay, I didn't know Caldera was a Hlaalu town. I was more talking about the first part of your post. It was very confusing.

[raggidman]

'pologies - the second bit is actually more confused - Caldera is built Imperial Style - possibly to keep a check on Redoran minies. When the Hlaalu took over the mines they were handed overlordship of the town too. To find out what it is about you have to do the quests in the castle there as well as the East Empire Trading Company Lore starting at ebonheart and then you see just how much the Hlaalu are in the pockets of the Imperials.

The Helseth thing. Basically the Underking is a sort of 'King' of the Undead - no idea quite what he is, but he has been around a looong time.

Barenziah, Helseth's mother was Empress for a time, way back, and then when her husband died she abdicated or lost any claim ... debateable. But who Helseth's father was I am not sure ...

Anyhow she then married the old Breton King and Helseth was raised in that Court. But basically there has to be a very serious reason for the Underking to go to all that trouble to foster him. And the Underking is a very powerful Necromancer.

If you portray Helseth according to the way he behaves in Mournhold, that I have strong reason to believe is just the tip of the iceberg. Barenziah may be a darling, but her son is nothing of the sort. Therefore I recomend - and it is your tale - that you portray Helseth as being outwardly smarmy or charming, or whatever it takes, but never show Helseth's inward though processes as being other than alien and sinister.

Hope you will forgive this total stranger for his interference

Still not sure if I have made myself clear :shrugs:

This post has been edited by raggidman: May 6 2008, 02:25 PM

[redsrock]

Yeah, everything is clear. Helseth may be different from what I have portrayed him to be, but I like my way. Thanks, though.

[Burnt Sierra]

I don't disagree with a lot that raggidman said, especially in regards to the lore, however....

It's fiction. It's an opportunity for you to show a side of Helseth that has never been publicly shown before, if that's what you choose to do, especially as it deals with a character (Sirius) who knew Helseth as an adult long before we ever met him in the game. Plus we have no way of knowing what you're planning on making Helseth do in the future anyway - for all we know you may be planning on double crosses galore in the future. Or not. Who knows? That's the beauty of it. Lets not get ahead of the author, we don't know what he has in store for us yet.

He's 100% right about Caldera though

[redsrock]

Lol, I had no clue about Caldera. Thanks, Raggidman, that clears up a lot.

[raggidman]

You're both correct - a story is a story. And so long as Helseth approves he might not have you assasinated for writing it ... ummmm, let me rephrase that: Helseth might have you assassiated if he approves of the story just in case you ever decide to write a retraction.

However I just wanted to say that there is a murky side to Helseth's background that goes beyond what is written in the game books - including the book about the Ebony dagger & his father (the Dark Elf Emperor was he?). And that I witnessed the dark side myself

That does not mean I think you have to include it in your story, just wanted you to be aware of what many people believe and know of him.

It does occur that Helsseth may have been 'sheltered' in some way from the environment in which the Underking lives during his fostering and that might be fun to explore ... I just have the feeling that it is the Underking who would need to be sheltered from Helseth.

[paragenic]

I'm surprised to read in here that Caldera is a Hlaalu town. Before I read any of this thread I would say

(Note italics which denote I WOULD have said this) It is true that of the three houses, the Hlaalu get along best with the Imperials, and this is evidenced by the fact that in Balmora, the Mages and Fighter's Guilds are smack in the middle of town and the Thieves' guild at a competely different location, whereas in Ald'ruhn all Imperial guilds are rounded up at the extremity of the city, and in Sadrith Mora they're practically banished and huddle outside the city in or around Wolverine Hall. It's also stated in the game that Hlaalu get along best with the Imperials...

But Caldera, like Pelagiad, Seyda Neen, Gnisis, and Ebonheart are Imperial cities. It is true that house Hlaalu have agents in Caldera and in Ebonheart, but that doesn't make them into a Hlaalu city. The giveaway is the town guard. Look at a city or village and you'll see the guards on the streets and in the shops will be Imperial, Ordinator, or aligned with one of the houses. That's your clue! Hlaalu cities are Gnaar Mok, Balmora, Suran, and Hla Oad. Tromping about Ebonheart are Imperial guards, not Hlaalu, so there's no way Caldera is a Hlaalu town!

But you all seem so convinced that Caldera is Hlaalu... where are you getting this from? Don't tell me you think Ebonheart is Hlaalu too because Duke Vedam Dren is there...?

[Burnt Sierra]

I've always believed Caldera is Hlaalu because of the Ebony Mine situation. Although the Redorans thought they should have been granted the deeds, Hlaalu sneaked in and got them instead. The predominant power base in Caldera then became Hlaalu, or at the least had more connections with Hlaalu than anyone else.

Don't tell me you think Ebonheart is Hlaalu too because Duke Vedam Dren is there...?

No, that's just you being facetious. Ebonheart is Imperial, and doesn't seem to have leanings to one of the Great House over any other.

[Alexander]

<snip>

I've actually always been under the impression, even though there's no Redoran noble present, that Gnisis is a Redoran town. Not in the least because of the Architecture displayed throughout the city.

And I'm certain Ebonheart, like Seyda Neen and Pelagiad is an Imperial run town.

[raggidman]

what I have done? everyone discussin towns, not story including Alexander?

The Temple and the 'Lords' of the Castle in Ebonheart are the Imperials - they 'Host' the Dunmer Council there and Duke Vedam Dren is the Imperial representative chosen from amongst the ranks of the Dunmer to oversee the Imperial interests. Please remember that there was a Dunmer Emperor once upon a time. But they have a full, Elite Legion there in the same building. So I see them as providin a 'dunmer neutral' meeting point where they can conveniently keep an eye on much of the goings on.

The 'Lords' in the Imperial built Castle in Caldera are Hlaalu, though the garison is Imperial. Not sure if Imperial slodiers actually have officers of any seniority? It may be that as they are not a Legion they are at the disposal of the Hlaalu. Like I said it is confusin ... and is the perfect demonstration of how deep into Imperial pockets the lapdog Hlaalu are.

Gnisis originally had an ancient outpost - possible Resdanian - then the Redoran evolved or built around it their Temple and Redoran Village, with a village headman remember? Then The Imperials arrived and built their silly little 'fort' at the other end to prove they have a presence there. And then the Telvanni mage moved into the outpost. So it has become a Town.

Consider that the Senior officer of the Legion in Gnisis has his 'home' in a Redoran Building and the nature of the Imperial Barracks is Redoran and the puzzle is complete. But although many describe it as Imperial I tend to see it as a symbiosis with no clear indicator, so calling it Redoran suggests that your business is with the Redoran, etc?

Just goes to show why the Imperials are so despised by so many Dunmer - and also shows why Connivers of Bosmora is such a great title for a story!

This post has been edited by raggidman: May 7 2008, 10:33 AM

[paragenic]

what I have done? everyone discussin towns, not story including Alexander?

Hi! There MUST be a way for discussions to bloom on this forum without it impacting the original thread. I know I'm a bit new to chorrol but I love TES and don't have a lot of people in my group of friends I can discuss it with. Is there a button to click to make a "bull" sub thread and a "city ownership" sub thread? You know, so people don't get angry with me

You guys could be right about the cities, but someone needs to stop by at www.uesp.net and set the record straight! There's a nice little map of Vvardenfell at http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Image:Vvardenfell04.png and it confirms pretty much what I've been saying.

You see, now I'd like to ask people here about uesp.net. Do they go to uesp.net? Do they think uesp.net is bull? What do I do without upsetting people?

[redsrock]

I don't really mind you all discussing it here. Hell, I've been getting more replies than ever!

[raggidman]

[redsrock]

and also shows why Connivers of Bosmora is such a great title for a story!

Wait, what do you mean?

[raggidman]

Well look at the Council - they are all conniving against each other in accordance with Imperial Policy. The Imperials have been playing them off against each other, undermining and looting Dunmer industry, culture, religion and morality while appearing to be attempting to keep the peace.

Then look at the set ups in Gnisis, Caldera and Ebonheart = perfect representations of this.

Mind you, things have been very differernt in Vivec and Mournhold partly because of the presence of the two Tribunal members ... plus Mournhold is a long way into the east of the Province. So one has to wonder if the Imperial presence is at its strongest on the Western Mainland closest to Cyrodiil?

But now, although the Tribunal is effectively removed, the Emperor is dead, so who knows what will happen next?

There is one Imperial Descendant still living ofc - Helseth. His mum, Barenziah, was Empress and his dad was Emperor ... People seem to have been forgetting this. The Daggerfall books have loads to say about that, right? Barenziah gave up any claim to the Imperial Throne, but her son did not.

[redsrock]

Oh, lol, ok. I don't why, but I thought you were being sarcastic, and was actually saying it wasn't a good title.

[raggidman]

nah - just this old man maunderin on and diggin for gold

ps the relevance of Ald'ruhn being destroyed is that their influence will be weakened and so even less likely they will have wrested Caldera back from Hlaalu w/out a major war.

[redsrock]

ps the relevance of Ald'ruhn being destroyed is that their influence will be weakened and so even less likely they will have wrested Caldera back from Hlaalu w/out a major war.

yeah, but you don't know what year by story is set.