Your Writing Process, And/Or Problems with Same Options

[treydog]

As we seem to have achieved a "critical mass" of writers here, I thought I would begin a thread regarding how it is we do this thing called "writing." The idea of this discussion is to maybe help each other with the creative process and also talk about how we deal with "writer's block."

Here is my process- please note that I do not believe that everyone (or anyone else has to write this way. It is simply what works for me.

Before I ever wrote the first word of Trey, I had made up my mind as to who he was, how he felt about certain things, what his "values" were. He dislikes Imperials and the Empire, hates slavery, isn't very good with authority figures, is perfectly willing to steal (although not from the poor or weak), etc.

I keep a spiral notebook in which I write dialogue, scenes, etc. in longhand. Even though I have been using a computer for (mumble-mumble) years, the act of actually writing in pen and on paper helps me connect with the material. Although I try to maintain a certain flow (chronological in the case of Trey), I have learned from bitter experience to write down EVERYTHING right when I think of it, even if it won't show up in the story until much later. To assist with finding those orphan ideas, I use different colored pens and assign them numbers. Then, when it is time, I just make a note to myself, thus "Insert 15." I usually do not write every word that appears in the final, just as much as I need to get going. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less.

Because I am doing a straight MQ story, I depend heavily on the Construction Set to get the in-game dialogue right. On the other hand, I consider how Trey will react to certain characters and situations and "create" conversations are needed if things are to make sense

Once I have enough (usually 3-6 pages) manuscript, I go to Word and begin turning my scribbling into real story. A lot of composing and creating takes place at the keyboard. The manuscript may simply say "Temple Informant." I will take actual dialogue, plus maybe some additional conversation to show the interaction between Trey and the NPC and develop the scene. A quick spell check (Word hates ES names), and I am ready for the next step.

The most important part of the process is the read-through. This is the place where I read the installment out loud to the talented and patient Mrs. Treydog. The purpose of this is to ensure that the writing "flows." If something I am reading "clunks" when read out loud, it needs to be fixed. I also find typos or missing words during the read-through. Additionally, Mrs. Treydog may ask questions or provide other suggestions.

Example- in the scene with Delitian she asked me, "How does the captain know who Trey is?"

So I wrote in the "I am Trey of High Rock" bit. Interestingly, the "... I've heard the name" response is already in-game.

Once I have fixed whatever did not work on read-through, I post the installment.

If this thread survives, I will talk later about dealing with writer's block.

Edited to fix typo and to add:

One of the hardest things for some writers to do is to decide when is "it" finished. The read-through also helps with that question. Bottom line- you have to let it go sometime. If you polish the story long enough, you will be left with nothing- particularly not the enjoyment.

This post has been edited by treydog: Mar 17 2006, 04:41 PM

[Grits]

Well from a vanilla gameplay perspective it’s cumbersome to cast the Alteration spells before or during combat. Characters who live in Xbox or PS3 Skyrim only get two hotkeys. Also some characters need to save their magicka for a summoning or for healing, especially at low levels or if they’re heavily invested in health and stamina. Even my Conjuration/Illusionist mage Achille did not use the mage armor spells (on the PS3) because he never could manage it along with his other spells. He wore heavy armor boots and gauntlets and tried very hard not to get hit.

Roleplay and lore wise there’s a lot more flexibility. A character’s background or attitude could keep them from using any kind of magic or enchantment. As Hulda says, “Magic is for the weak. Elves, I mean.” If Hulda wanted to go for a walk across the plains she would need to pick up some armor.

[ghastley]

Ina doesn't wear anything but a huge axe, and she doesn't bother with spells either. I've found that investing in smithing and weapon skill let her take her offense so far beyond the regular opposition, that she kills them before they've done her any serious damage. She increases health every level-up, so that she survives the one hit they manage to land, and heals herself with the starter spell afterward.

She does need potions for boss battles, and Erik keeps the minions busy while they're going on. Tactics are always to avoid mob battles, as that allows multiple foes to hit at once. Her axe is enchanted with Fiery Soul Trap, but it didn't take much skill, as the Fire damage is fixed, and the soul trap is fully effective at low levels.

I'm now trying the same thing with Willatu, a Bosmer archer. She's doing Bound Bow, instead of Legendary Ebony Battle-axe, so she's more on the magical side, and Smithing doesn't help. That's hurting Derkeethus, as she can't improve his equipment the way Ina did Erik's. However, with Stealth perks adding to Archery and Conjuration for her bow, she's dishing a lot out at range, and not getting many close encounters where he's needed. She can also summon an atronach to supplement, or raise someone she's already killed.

So in each case an overpowering weapon trumps the need for armour. I can see that this could hit diminishing returns at high levels, as the weapon improvements will stop when Ina's smithing caps, or Willatu's Conjuration runs out of useful perks. Ina can switch to Alchemy to continue boosting her Smithing, but I'm not sure what Willatu can do.

Neither of those are planned as story characters, and I have "purer" mage and fighter builds for most of them. The exception, really, is Diablita, who was pretty much defined in the Oblivion story. But a Dragonborn's supposed to be exceptional, so that's all right! Even Clark is sort of a pure mage, as he only uses his sword when they get too close.

I'm feeling a bit of a lack of an archer in the mix. Gilda's the sneaky one, and she has archery issues. All housecarls have archery as a second skill, so they're doing it when needed, but there's no Lildereth voicing the archer viewpoint in mine.

[Darkness Eternal]

I'm writing the final stages and chapters on one of my stories and I came to a dilemma here. I do understand that in the time period and world of the Elder Scrolls, situations in battle and war there are often casualties. Since the story has to deal with a conflict where one side which is the "bad" side, and realistically there would be younger people in that place and time where a major battle happens. I'm not one to overly glorify brutality just for the sake of it but I'm not one to make my characters perfectly good. They're flawed and more in the grey area....

To shed some light on what I'm trying to say is there is a part in the story that the protagonists' foes are at a location where an attack will occur. In this location there will(or might) be children or adolescent and juvenile people. So unfortunately they will be caught in the crossfire.

My question is.... Should I go with this course and Of course spare readers from any horrific detail in youth killing(I've never got into detail, just left some vague imagery) or, well, find a way to completely take this out(though it will tax realism and sort of make-sense in the story).

Another point is the blurred line between the best and the worst. Is a cause for the greater good nescessary or even justified if members of the family of corrupt evil doers will suffer the same fate for being at the wrong place at the wrong time?

[mALX]

I think you kind of have to include it for the sake of realism; but like you said - spare the details. I wouldn't do it from the viewpoint of the child being killed if I were in your place. But even Skyrim and Oblivion included children being killed; they just told or showed it after the fact.

* Necromancer fort in Oblivion with dead child bones on table with necromancy implements
* Rufio raped and killed a young teen girl
* In Skyrim a werewolf killed a child and the player has to determine his fate

I'm sure there are more I'm not remembering, too.

So kind of do what you think best for your story.







This post has been edited by mALX: May 3 2015, 09:58 PM

[haute ecole rider]

I'm with mALX here, too. The deaths of young people caught in the cross fire of war is a given; however one does not need to dwell on the details here. A brief sentence buried in the midst of the general carnage ("One breath the little girl stood beside her fallen mother clutching her doll, the next a crumpled pile of bloody cloth took her place.") or briefly touching on the aftermath is enough to bring home the point without belaboring it.

[Darkness Eternal]

Right. Okay, good to hear. The details of their fate, the young ones, that is, will not be written in detail.

Thanks guys!

[ghastley]

Complete change of subject: Ranks and status for the Psijics.

Craft guilds had apprentice/journeyman/master. An apprentice would learn (possibly unpaid) from a master, until competent to work unsupervised, at which point he'd become a journeyman. He could choose to keep working for the master as an employee, or go off on his own. On producing a "master piece", to prove his skill at the craft to the guild, he'd be promoted to master and be allowed to train apprentices. There would probably also be a Grand Master at the head of the guild, possibly a rotating post among the guild council that would pass judgement on master pieces. Council members might get a higher rank than masters in a larger guild.

"Religious" orders had novices, acolytes, initiates, adepts, etc. and ranking is unclear.

Magical orders like the College of Winterhold appear to take the craft guild model, but the Psijics are referred to as monks, implying the religious model is in use. What sort of ranks do you think would be present in the Psijic Order? We know that the head is the Ritemaster or Loremaster (same rank, or different?) which also implies the religious style. I found a reference to "Master Sargenius of the Council of Artaeum," which gives a counter-example. 2920 vol 2 mentions initiates = students.

[Grits]

Hmm, novice, initiate, monk, abbot, priest, prior, elder? I’d go with religious sounding titles rather than craft guild ones since the Psijics are all about mysticism and spirits.

[Acadian]

I think a good generically religious implying title is Brother or Sister - especially for low ranking members. Or even high ranking members who wish to minimize the impact of their title (like Brother Jauffre of the Blades).

[SubRosa]

You could go all Celtic and throw in Ovate, though Druid and Bard probably conjure up too many modern connotations to be used as well.

If you want to get Greco-Roman you might use Saga, Venefica, Pharmakis, or Demosioi. Or if Scandinavian then Volva, or Seiðkona/Seiðmaðr If any of them are transgendered they might be Enarei, Semnotatoi, or Gallae.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: May 6 2015, 12:03 AM

[ghastley]

I see priest as a generic term for a shrine-minder and preacher, rather than a rank, and "brother" as just a form of address for a fellow member, but the rest will work. I'm really looking for two things: if I make more Psijic robes, then I need labels for them, and if Mellewen gets into Clark's story, she'll be discussing Artaeum.

A novice won't qualify for a Psijic order robe; they'll get their first as an initiate. The monks will include the four seen in Skyrim, so their garb is already set. Abbots and Priors would be in charge of places of learning and research, and probably in an administrative capacity, whereas Elders would be in the academic/religious hierarchy - i.e. more learned and authoritative in the academic sense. The head is Loremaster Celarus, we believe, assuming he's till alive.


OK, follow-up question:

Would the Psijic order have a martial auxiliary, like the battlemages of the Order of the Lamp? They've kept out of most conflicts by hiding the Island of Artaeum, rather than take any sides, but there was the defeat of Orgnum, where they might have felt threatened directly. I'm thinking not, as that was achieved by creating storms to disrupt his forces, rather than anyone taking the field.

On the other hand, what do they do with applicants that don't make the grade on the magical side, but still show enough promise? An alternate path for the more physically inclined would avoid disappointment.

[mALX]

Complete change of subject: Ranks and status for the Psijics.

Craft guilds had apprentice/journeyman/master. An apprentice would learn (possibly unpaid) from a master, until competent to work unsupervised, at which point he'd become a journeyman. He could choose to keep working for the master as an employee, or go off on his own. On producing a "master piece", to prove his skill at the craft to the guild, he'd be promoted to master and be allowed to train apprentices. There would probably also be a Grand Master at the head of the guild, possibly a rotating post among the guild council that would pass judgement on master pieces. Council members might get a higher rank than masters in a larger guild.

"Religious" orders had novices, acolytes, initiates, adepts, etc. and ranking is unclear.

Magical orders like the College of Winterhold appear to take the craft guild model, but the Psijics are referred to as monks, implying the religious model is in use. What sort of ranks do you think would be present in the Psijic Order? We know that the head is the Ritemaster or Loremaster (same rank, or different?) which also implies the religious style. I found a reference to "Master Sargenius of the Council of Artaeum," which gives a counter-example. 2920 vol 2 mentions initiates = students.

Is there nothing about it in the Lore? The Imperial Library used to have a whole section regarding the Psijics, but I can't find the Library anymore. Lady N would probably know, though.






Wait, their server is not as good as it used to be, but it is up again;


Here is the guide to the psijic order:



http://www.imperial-library.info/content/guide-psijic-order

[mALX]

Here is another article about their order:


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/c...psijic-endeavor

[ghastley]

I searched the library for both "Psijic" and "Artaeum" and Googled, too, in case anyone else had useful stuff. But there are gaps, of course, like why Iachesis was Ritemaster, but his successor Celarus is Loremaster. It could mean that both posts always exist, but now Celarus is the head of the order, and the new Ritemaster is a notch down, with the other xxxmasters, who are all part of the ruling council. Or it could just mean that they changed the title of "Psijic chief".

The title "initiate" showed up in a number of places, such as the third edition of the pocket guide, and 2920, vol 2, so that looks solid. Pocket Guide III also mentions the low number of admissions, which suits my back-story for Mellewen, of finding it hard to get accepted as an initiate.

[mALX]

I searched the library for both "Psijic" and "Artaeum" and Googled, too, in case anyone else had useful stuff. But there are gaps, of course, like why Iachesis was Ritemaster, but his successor Celarus is Loremaster. It could mean that both posts always exist, but now Celarus is the head of the order, and the new Ritemaster is a notch down, with the other xxxmasters, who are all part of the ruling council. Or it could just mean that they changed the title of "Psijic chief".

The title "initiate" showed up in a number of places, such as the third edition of the pocket guide, and 2920, vol 2, so that looks solid. Pocket Guide III also mentions the low number of admissions, which suits my back-story for Mellewen, of finding it hard to get accepted as an initiate.

Yes, they were def a kind of religious order, but also an exclusive scholarly order for magic too - kind of like the Mensa club of magic type thing. What were the excluding factors though? I wondered, but can't read the article to find out.

I absolutely LOVED the Imperial Library, it is frustrating to not be able to delve into it anymore.

[Darkness Eternal]

Here is another article about their order:


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/c...psijic-endeavor

Nice link, mALX. I haven't been in the Imperial Library for awhile. I need to brush up on some new lore.

[Callidus Thorn]

So, here I am again, back for yet more advice. Well, more a question really.

I'm writing up the prison section for Severan, which, thanks to him, is extremely lengthy. But something's off. I've got the image, and the characters voice, but somehow what I'm writing doesn't really feel right, like I'm always using the wrong words or something.

What do you guys do when you run into something like this?

[mALX]

So, here I am again, back for yet more advice. Well, more a question really.

I'm writing up the prison section for Severan, which, thanks to him, is extremely lengthy. But something's off. I've got the image, and the characters voice, but somehow what I'm writing doesn't really feel right, like I'm always using the wrong words or something.

What do you guys do when you run into something like this?

Spend some time getting to know the character - immerse yourself in him/his situation till you can think like he would in that situation maybe?

[haute ecole rider]

I have a "getting to know you" conversation with the character - sometimes in my head, sometimes on paper (real or virtual).

If it's a game character, I play the character in various situations and get a "feel" for how she reacts to certain moral questions. Julian's story emerged from something like five or six playthroughs before I could clearly hear her voice. I also had numerous conversations with her as I explored Oblivion with other characters.

[Destri Melarg]

So, here I am again, back for yet more advice. Well, more a question really.

I'm writing up the prison section for Severan, which, thanks to him, is extremely lengthy. But something's off. I've got the image, and the characters voice, but somehow what I'm writing doesn't really feel right, like I'm always using the wrong words or something.

What do you guys do when you run into something like this?

My advice is to write the section the way you see it in your mind right now. You already have the character's voice so just ignore the critic and the 'feel' of it for the moment. Just get the section down on paper. I find that in the writing the things that don't work have a tendency to bob to the surface, and they become easier to address when put into the context of the whole.