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> Vampires: why does your character drink blood?
Lady Saga
post Feb 23 2013, 02:43 AM
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I am having trouble with this one, and need some ideas. Why does your character drink blood? Why do they feed?

In Oblivion, becoming a Stage 4 vampire caused the majority of NPCs to be repulsed by our characters. They technically did not have to feed, but at least once the feeding was done, the NPCs stopped recognizing that our chars were vampires. This essentially gave our characters a reason to feed, at least.

But in Skyrim, this is no longer so (assuming Dawngurd is installed). The NPCs treat our characters with mild suspicion at best, but going from Stage 1 to Stage 4 does not actually cause any wanton sorts of behavior from the world.

So why does your character need to feed? What RP ideas have you all come up with?

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Destri Melarg
post Feb 23 2013, 03:26 AM
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I'll play.

None of my characters have treated vampirism as anything but a disease to cure, like rockjoint or ataxia. But something that Darkness Eternal said when we were debating the morality of vampirism has stuck in my mind, and I plan to use it whenever I decide to go with a character who succumbs to vampirism. What he said (much better than I’m about to) was that beyond stage four the lack of feeding begins to play upon the vampire’s mind. The idea of losing one’s mind must be incredibly terrifying for the vampire, because we are talking about falling into madness for all eternity!

Think about the razor’s edge that your vampire has to walk. She (i’m assuming) has to hold onto her humanity because, to paraphrase Kirk Lazarus:
QUOTE
“You never go full vampire!”

Going ‘full vampire’ means losing oneself to the monster. Yet holding onto that humanity is what keeps her from feeding because she knows that the act is morally wrong which, of course, brings her closer to the monster the longer she abstains. What she begins to understand is that the monster is her truth, and that truth can only be held at bay by feeding. At that point she is able to justify feeding because it protects those she comes into contact with from the feral vampire clawing to come out.


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Kiln
post Feb 23 2013, 03:38 AM
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If you want to really roleplay a vampire then you can simply keep this in mind: Traditional vampires need to feed on blood or else they get weak, degenerate, and ultimately die.

This isn't actually reflected in Skyrim game mechanics though so basically the only reason to feed is if you want to.


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SubRosa
post Feb 23 2013, 04:05 AM
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I used a mod that reversed the stages, so that the longer you went between feedings, the weaker you became. It also allowed you to become hated in spite of Dawnguard, and let you pick if it was at stage 1 or stage 4. I set it up so Helregin was hated within 24 hours of feeding. And since feeding made her more powerful, that was pretty much all the time.

She did not drink blood so much because she needed it for sustenance (though I RP'ed that was true), but rather for the power. She was drunk upon it, the more she had, the more she wanted. It was only meeting Serana that made her realize she was completely out of control, just a step away from becoming that beast which Destri spoke of. She eased up after that, though of course never completely stopped.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Feb 23 2013, 04:23 AM


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Lady Saga
post Feb 23 2013, 04:16 AM
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Damn I want that mod, SubRosa!

I like the other ideas, too. I just think I'll have a hard time roleplaying them. But I will try to implement something. Some sort of rule. Right now my vampire just kinda casually feeds whenever she feels like, if the opportunity is there. She's a casual vampire, which I don't really like.

...maybe I'll see if I can just un-install Dawnguard for Mycharonna's game. Problem is I think on xbox, this means I'd have to buy the DLC all over again. rolleyes.gif

Thanks everyone!
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Elisabeth Hollow
post Feb 23 2013, 04:20 AM
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QUOTE(Lady Saga @ Feb 22 2013, 09:16 PM) *

Damn I want that mod, SubRosa!

I like the other ideas, too. I just think I'll have a hard time roleplaying them. But I will try to implement something. Some sort of rule. Right now my vampire just kinda casually feeds whenever she feels like, if the opportunity is there. She's a casual vampire, which I don't really like.

...maybe I'll see if I can just un-install Dawnguard for Mycharonna's game. Problem is I think on xbox, this means I'd have to buy the DLC all over again. rolleyes.gif

Thanks everyone!

Once it's bought, you can re-install it at any time. You're good. Just don't try to buy it on another gamer profile.


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Lady Saga
post Feb 23 2013, 05:14 AM
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QUOTE(Elisabeth Hollow @ Feb 22 2013, 10:20 PM) *

Once it's bought, you can re-install it at any time. You're good. Just don't try to buy it on another gamer profile.


Really? SWEET! wow, I'm gonna see if I can do this right now!!!!

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Grits
post Feb 23 2013, 05:15 AM
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I like the tension that results from the game’s system. Not feeding leads to more power and less humanity, while the monstrous act of feeding makes the vampire appear and feel more like a mortal. Sadly the Stage 4 hostility is gone with Dawnguard, but I don’t let my vampires make trades or have important quest interactions with mortals unless they have recently fed. So mine feed to pass as mortals and also in Nivoniel’s case to recapture what she felt before she turned. Niv cured herself as soon as she learned how. (And then died. For keeps.)

I have a vampire who lives in a blood-starved state because she doesn’t want to feed. She wears a cowl with a mask to conceal her yucky features. I think DE’s idea that the prolonged hunger would cause insanity is a good one. It would inject some conflict into Venja’s life and make her a lot more interesting. Or it might cause her to jump into a volcano. You know, since taking a long sunlit walk is no longer the way to end it all. Venja has never heard anyone mention a cure.

My other vampire Selvyn (also deceased) fed because he liked it. He did not intend to become a vampire. It was kind of an impulse decision when a vampire suggested he never needed to fear death again. He thought being a vampire would be gross but worth it. Once turned he discovered that his tastes had changed. Gross did not have the same meaning. And also being fearless in the face of death does nothing to prevent it. Oops.

So Niv fed to keep her mortal feelings, Venja might feed to retain her sanity, and Selvyn fed because blood was his chocolate. Hope that helps. smile.gif







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Darkness Eternal
post Feb 23 2013, 08:08 AM
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You cannot base your character's motives just on game mechanics alone. Dawnguard took away stage 4 hostility for a number of reasons, and I do believe it had to do with the massive uproar on the official Bethesda forums regarding vampire lore. I know, since 99% of my topics and posts were all about werewolves&vampires.

In vanilla Skyrim, the gameplay mechanics were just like Oblivion. Feed and you weren't recognized. Don't feed and you're known for a vampire. The only exception is that people attacked you. Lore wise, only the vampires in Cyrodiil have the ability to blend in because of a pact they made with Clavicus Vile. Which explains why they can walk among mortals and even become politicians! Yikes!

In Skyrim, it's sort of contradictory since the higher leveled vampire NPC's are dubbed "Volkihar", which are not the same clan as the Cyrodiilic ones. Additionally, Movarth Piquine is in the game and he was bitten by a Cyrodiilic vampire. I can't tell you how many topics this was posted in the forums, and I believe I might have been the first one to post it as soon as I saw this guy around Morthal tongue.gif.

Long story short, Bethesda tried to fix lore by revamping vampires(no pun) and taking away their human-like appearance. They also took away stage 4 hostility and added some more lore to the native vampire clan.

QUOTE
I am having trouble with this one, and need some ideas. Why does your character drink blood? Why do they feed?


There are a number of reasons why.

1.Either they slip into a coma after a long time without feeding(don't even count game mechanics into this, they are irrelevant).

QUOTE
"More than 50 years ago, my wife Rona and I were both turned into vampires. While I came to embrace the changes in myself, she did not. She hated what she had become, and refused to feed to keep herself healthy. She eventually slipped into a coma from which she has not awoken."-Janus Hassildor


2. They risk losing their sanity and survival.

QUOTE
"I rediscovered this diary today. It has been 13 years since I last wrote in it. With an eternity before, and the blood hunger ever pulsing in my veins, there is little urgency for diaries, or much of anything.

Has it really been 89 years since I last wrote? The pages are getting fragile. I have rediscovered purpose, though it took nearly a century. I have finally gained some measure of control over the blood frenzy. I think I will try to establish a life among the living in one of their great cities."-Jakben's journal.


and

QUOTE
"The worst effect, of course, had to be my blood lust. If I did not kill once a night and drink blood, my hunger would gnaw at me, and any wounds I suffered would not heal no matter how much I rested."-Vampires of Illiac Bay.


and

QUOTE
Entry 8: Two weeks. Two weeks have passed since Luktuv locked me in my quarters. Try as I might, I cannot free myself. I cannot breach the doors! If I don't feed soon, I feel I will go mad.

Entry 9: Food blood blood blood blood I need it I need blood need blood."-Lord Lovidicus journal.



3. Discretion.

QUOTE
"To preserve our ideals and way of life, two primary edicts shall be observed. Above all, reveal thyself and our Order to no other, for discretion is the greatest of our virtues. Do not feed where you may be found out, or on those who may not suspect your passing. Avoid daylight by lifestyle; dispel common belief in our kind, and maintain supple appearance through satisfaction of the thirst."


When they say "maintain supple appearance," they mean feed until you look identical to a mortal. To the point of being indistinguished from a normal person. No way to tell the difference. The quote was taken from this ingame book which states the tenets of the Cyrodiilic vampires.

RP-wise, my characters Draken and Raven feed because they know how prejudice mortals can be and how fearful they are. They understand that in order to manipulate and control the masses they must assume the position of a mortal rather than a blood-sucking vampire.

Raven is more politically gifted. She feeds because she is always in the company of nobles, politicians and government officials and dukes and princes, etc. She was born a vampire and she grew up knowing nothing more than how to live her life as one. And feeding to her is just like eating to a person, except is has a much more crucial and meaningful value to her century-long career of infiltrating mortal society.

Why does she stop feeding? Well, in one case she had to get her hands dirty and instead of using a pawn or a thrall to carry out her bidding she had to take out a group of necromancers that were aware of her condition. And to make matters worse, they knew her personaly and were a threat to her secret identity as a vampire. She forgoes feeding, storms their location in the dead of night and well, does what she's good at. She knows she's at her most powerful there and in a cavern, where no witnesses would live to tell the tale, she shows her true colors.

She also feeds because she has a sharper mind when she does. She can negotiate. She won't be worrying about taking a chunk out of someone's throat while she's moving the pieces across the board game. She's part of the High Council and she's loved by the people. If she even showed her fangs once, she knows she would be hunted down relentessly for being what she is. A predator at the top of the food chain. It's as simple as that to her. In her mind, feeding is what keeps her "alive" per se.

Draken, on the other hand, feed because that's just his way of life. It's the whole "I was born a vampire. I will always be a vampire. I will feed as a vampire. It's my nature. Don't like it, don't care."

He's more of a military and influential type of fellow. Charismatic figure by day, dark Molag Bal virgin-sacrificing cultist by night. If he is blood-starved, he does it to go on a supreme power-trip against his foes in clandestine warfare far from society.

Feeding habits: They aren't as messy as those clowns in Castle Volkihar. The Cyrodiilic vampires saw how the Whet-Fang put their cattle comatose and harvest blood from them, and they even did the same with the Deepscorn Hollow prisoner in the Cattle Cell. Raven and Draken, being high ranking members of the Order Vampyrum in Cyrodiil, kidnapped beggars, plucked criminals from prisoners and jails, orphan children and placed them in underground blood-farms or cattle cells where they could easily travel through Cyrodiil and feed from their own source of blood without drawing too much attention. Why kill their prey when you can safely take blood from a donor who is forever sleeping peacefully? Better than going through the hassle of seducing, feeding and possibly dumping the body out in the woods.





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And yet I am, and liveā€”like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass belowā€”above the vaulted sky.ā€¯
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Darkness Eternal
post Feb 23 2013, 02:29 PM
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A simple speculation here:

Vampires can go into a deep sleep for a long period of time. This is fact. I am inclined to believe that they must forgo drinking blood for awhile to go through this process. Again, it's not concrete fact but by seeing different scenarios in lore, we can only assume. We know that vampires can sleep off for centuries or even thousands of years like our dear Serana.

QUOTE
Vampires were believed to be extinct in Morrowind for centuries. Dunmer culture has a special hatred for vampires, and in earlier times the Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers hunted them to extinction. In recent years, however, vampires have either begun to sneak into Morrowind, or long-dormant ones have been awakened.
-Legions of the Dead.

It is possible that Rona Hassildor, rejecting the blood potions from Mina(The Pale Lady) was getting for her, willingly slipped into a coma so she wouldn't have to live as a vampire. Hence the
QUOTE
What? Janus... please, no. Let me sleep. Please, let me sleep.


The only way to bring back one of these long-dormant vampires is by magic or maybe even by blood(ever wondered why your characters gets his/her hand stabbed through with that spike right before freeing Serana? Your character's blood must have been the first blood she's tasted in over a millenia, which explains one of the many reasons she might be so attached. wink.gif

RP-wise, my kids Draken and Raven willingly go comatose when stuff has hit the fan. Badly. Only under urgent irreversable circumstances do they leave the world and return centuries later to try again, though they aren't always pleased how the world has changed since then. Ehem, Thalmor supremacy and Empire's fall anyone?

This post has been edited by Darkness Eternal: Feb 23 2013, 02:29 PM


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And yet I am, and liveā€”like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass belowā€”above the vaulted sky.ā€¯
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Lady Saga
post Feb 24 2013, 11:50 PM
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Thanks to all and especially to you, DE, wow you sure know your lore. I'm gonna pore over all that literature in more detail over these next few days.

I would still prefer the old system, I want Mycharonna recognized and feared once she makes Stage 4, and I haven't been able to figure out how to un-install Dawnguard entirely without deleting it from the Xbox, so I'm kinda stuck there. Then again, not feeding does make our vampires weaker when the sun is out, and this gives (at least) some sort of motive to feed, beyond pure RP. Although Mycharonna does not travel by daylight, the thought that she could be exterminated if we somehow get careless is something to consider.

QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Feb 23 2013, 08:29 AM) *

Vampires can go into a deep sleep for a long period of time. This is fact.


Yes! This is one thing Mycharonna occasionally does: she'll find somewhere to clamber up into and hide for days. Serana also was in limbo for quite awhile (you'll see what i mean, if you haven't met her yet).

I also like to think that Mycharonna can fly (not as a bat, but as a humanoid) and can turn into vapor at will, but for her to do these things she must have at least an hour to transform (no enemies about).

Anyways, thanks!

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Feb 24 2013, 11:51 PM
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Darkness Eternal
post Feb 27 2013, 12:32 AM
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Interesting. Yeah, Raven can shift into a cloud of bats without going hideous vampire lord form. I am quite sure Molag Bal wouldn't limit that ability to the vampire lord, but then again, it seems that only form is the only one able to tap in ancient Night Powers of Blood Magic just like werewolves of certain lineages can tap in natural energies before magic was even known to be magic.


--------------------
And yet I am, and liveā€”like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass belowā€”above the vaulted sky.ā€¯
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Lady Saga
post Feb 27 2013, 03:52 AM
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So I figured out there's another way to feed! I don't wanna say because I don't wanna introduce spoilers, but l like this other way better! ... It's a little more involved than feeding on a sleeping NPC. I'd still prefer a little more drama, but at least there is a second option.

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Feb 27 2013, 03:53 AM
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Elisabeth Hollow
post Feb 27 2013, 03:59 AM
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i know what it is biggrin.gif


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Lady Saga
post Mar 4 2013, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE(Elisabeth Hollow @ Feb 22 2013, 10:20 PM) *

Once it's bought, you can re-install it at any time. You're good. Just don't try to buy it on another gamer profile.


Hah! I figured out how to do this, finally. It's not as obvious as it is on PS3. I am talking about re-installing deleted DLC content without paying for it again. Anyways, Mycharonna happens to be Stage 4 (I think) so I'm looking forward to some fearful/angry NPCs!

One thing that's strange: after ditching Dawnguard for her game, she passed by a wolf, and it howled. I've never heard a wolf howl in my Xbox games before (they howl in my PS3 games, though). Wonder if Dawnguard takes away wolves howling? wacko.gif



This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Mar 4 2013, 12:16 AM
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SubRosa
post Mar 4 2013, 12:27 AM
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QUOTE(Lady Saga @ Mar 3 2013, 06:15 PM) *

One thing that's strange: after ditching Dawnguard for her game, she passed by a wolf, and it howled. I've never heard a wolf howl in my Xbox games before (they howl in my PS3 games, though). Wonder if Dawnguard takes away wolves howling? wacko.gif

It does not do that on the PC.


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Elisabeth Hollow
post Mar 4 2013, 12:30 AM
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My wolves still howl, even with Dawnguard on there.


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King Of Beasts
post Mar 4 2013, 12:31 AM
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I heard wolves howl before the dawnguard plug in blink.gif

Maybe it was a glitch.


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Lady Saga
post Mar 4 2013, 12:35 AM
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That is weird. They never howled before, now they do constantly. Mycharonna just encountered a pack of 3 pit wolves near one of her homes, and they were all howling in unison. I love it!

On the other hand, she passed thru Riverwood, and nobody seemed to notice she's Stage 4. Nothing really happened out of the ordinary. kvleft.gif She's definitely S4, too, she's got 100% weakness to fire.

Edit: He heh so I have no idea why she could pass through Riverwood and Whiterun hold without any probs, but once she made it to Dawnstar the guards and NPCs were attacking her on sight! She's never been up in this area of Skyrim before, so there's no way it's because of a bounty! I guess it took awhile before the game recognizes a Stage 4 vamp as an instant enemy.

This is gonna be tricky. She's going to need to sneak into Dawnstar, and then find a sleeping NPC to feed on. The NPC will have to be sleeping because removing Dawnguard from Mycharonna's game also caused that 'other' way of feeding to be non-useable.

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Mar 4 2013, 03:16 AM
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King Of Beasts
post Mar 4 2013, 03:53 AM
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QUOTE(Lady Saga @ Mar 3 2013, 03:35 PM) *

That is weird. They never howled before, now they do constantly. Mycharonna just encountered a pack of 3 pit wolves near one of her homes, and they were all howling in unison. I love it!

On the other hand, she passed thru Riverwood, and nobody seemed to notice she's Stage 4. Nothing really happened out of the ordinary. kvleft.gif She's definitely S4, too, she's got 100% weakness to fire.

Edit: He heh so I have no idea why she could pass through Riverwood and Whiterun hold without any probs, but once she made it to Dawnstar the guards and NPCs were attacking her on sight! She's never been up in this area of Skyrim before, so there's no way it's because of a bounty! I guess it took awhile before the game recognizes a Stage 4 vamp as an instant enemy.

This is gonna be tricky. She's going to need to sneak into Dawnstar, and then find a sleeping NPC to feed on. The NPC will have to be sleeping because removing Dawnguard from Mycharonna's game also caused that 'other' way of feeding to be non-useable.


Because



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