Command & Conquer, Take over the goverment? Options

[m12345m]

I know the airship was a bit of a wild card but how about taking over Cyrodiil by force or even politically? i know this is another wild one but I like the idea of taking over the empire. picture it-a small election for the count/countess of, lets say, bruma. You win via persuasion of the population e.c.t. Then you decide to declare independence. Then you decide you want another town so you send your loyal soldiers to do battle or even take over politically / assassinate count/countess. It all builds up until you are ready to take the capital. It is a big mod I agree and there is the potential for bug mania but id be willing to do extensive testing. It just the idea that you could rule your own empire. feedback again appreciated

[Snow_Fox]

Election?....

Election is something of a new concept.. not really an old one..

Its really a more after the 1800's idea..

(Yeah I know elections and votes probably go back to the beginning of man in some way shape or form.. but, its not until fairly recent history that they became "common place")

Anyway instead of an election.. make it so that you have to break into a vault.. alter some pappers saying your a noble..

Kill all the other nobles in the city..

In this manner your the only person suited to rule the city left..

Blam you gain control..

[Foster]

Election?....

Election is something of a new concept.. not really an old one..

Its really a more after the 1800's idea..

(Yeah I know elections and votes probably go back to the beginning of man in some way shape or form.. but, its not until fairly recent history that they became "common place")

Anyway instead of an election.. make it so that you have to break into a vault.. alter some pappers saying your a noble..

Kill all the other nobles in the city..

In this manner your the only person suited to rule the city left..

Blam you gain control..

Elections have been a major element of the political process for the last few thousand years. Granted they were corrupt and usually involved whoever had the money or control, but to be honest, what about that has changed?

Plus they've shaped world history significantly. Even if you want to ignore the elections of say, the Doge of Venice, the Senate of Rome, or ancient Greece, you've still got the Papal elections and the election of the Holy Roman Emperor. Plus it goes way beyond the 19th century in its modern version. The English civil war was fought between Parliment and the Royalists, for example. And the members of Parliment were elected. Granted, it boiled down to whoever owned the houses ('vote for me or I'll turf you out' kind of principle), but it's still an election. How common place do you want? The only reason they've spread to other parts of the world is western pressure and as a by-product of Imperialism.

Of course what you've got in Oblivion seems to be some kind of feudal system based on an Empire, but there is an example in the game where one of the counts is actually not of noble birth - the count of Cheydnhal is of merchant stock, and I think bought his title (or something like that). So it's not so much a matter of election, as first achieving a rank (which in theory could be done, though which town? Kvatch seems a good idea - save the empire and have the title of Count of Kvatch bestowed upon you). Then you could get on the Elder counsil, etc.

Politics lite. Saves the murder if you're of a good alignment, too.

[Snow_Fox]

I am not trying to ignore any elections in general.. However as you said.. most elections of that calibre were somewhat.. corrupt..

As in whoever has the most money.. has the most body gaurds.. ultimatly has the election.. and I may be mistaken.. but, weren't the elections for the council of roman senators elected while the caesars were picked threw bloodline?

[Foster]

Rome wasn't initially a dictatorship; initially it was a senate. SPQR stands for the Senate and the People of Rome. The senate did remain in existance, though obviously the Emperor was the real power - at least in theory. There were certain cases when that wasn't true.

As for the senate, you're in part right. The senate was basically made up of the head of the important Roman houses, and though others could be removed (by censors) or given a position, it didn't mean they were entitled to speak. However, the senate elected members to their internal offices: The Plebian counsil for example voted for who would be the People's Tribune, or Tribunus Plebis.

[NinjaPirate]

Either way election wouldn't work in the Oblivion continuum considering they run a Fuedal system. But this would be a cool mod to take over the government a la coup d'etat or a more sneaky way like forgery.

[Dirox]

you guys are in way over your head

But its a good idea

[dougaljb]

Rome wasn't initially a dictatorship; initially it was a senate. SPQR stands for the Senate and the People of Rome. The senate did remain in existance, though obviously the Emperor was the real power - at least in theory. There were certain cases when that wasn't true.

As for the senate, you're in part right. The senate was basically made up of the head of the important Roman houses, and though others could be removed (by censors) or given a position, it didn't mean they were entitled to speak. However, the senate elected members to their internal offices: The Plebian counsil for example voted for who would be the People's Tribune, or Tribunus Plebis.

Just to add that although there wasn't an emporer before the fall of the republic and good ole octavian. Rome did have SCU's meaning in times of special needs a dictator could be appointed. Also Rome used to be governed by Kings, or one could call that a form of dictatorship.
Glad to meet someone else who is interested in the brilliance of the classical world.

[Foster]

Yeah, there is also one other way, if you're feeling inclined, which is the Triumverate. The best known example of this was when Julius Ceasar, Pompey the Great, and Crassus (famed for his Sparticus kicking and molten gold drinking) were declared the first triumverate - pretty much heads of state in all but name.

[Snow_Fox]

True.. I had completly forgotten about the triumverate. It has been a while since I have had anything to do with roman government x.X

Of course this still creates the issue of how to gain favor.. and what determines what in oblivion..

I guess.. if all else fails..the election can be made more realistic by the bribing.

[MasterSaji]

What government? Last I checked...
SPOILER
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Cyrodil was in the hands of the some "senate" (forgot what their official title is)
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a decent idea, but, if you watched the end movie, you would think and guess TES V would kick off where you left off (or at least I hope so) ,with you being crowned emperor! So, I dunno, maybe I'm just dreaming too much

This post has been edited by MasterSaji: Apr 21 2006, 12:16 AM

[Foster]

You mean the Elder Counsil? Yeah, you've got that Ocato dude (personally I think that's a reference to Cato the Elder) running the show, but really this is new territory for the empire. So who knows?

Personally I don't think you should become emperor. Sure you kicked a little butt, but that's no substute for dragonblood.

[xycolian]

You mean the Elder Counsil? Yeah, you've got that Ocato dude (personally I think that's a reference to Cato the Elder) running the show, but really this is new territory for the empire. So who knows?

Personally I don't think you should become emperor. Sure you kicked a little butt, but that's no substute for dragonblood.

well, there's gonna have to be some substitute for dragonblood cuz all the real dragonblood that ran in the Septim bloodline is gone.

[Lobo]

Rome wasn't initially a dictatorship; initially it was a senate. SPQR stands for the Senate and the People of Rome. The senate did remain in existance, though obviously the Emperor was the real power - at least in theory. There were certain cases when that wasn't true.

As for the senate, you're in part right. The senate was basically made up of the head of the important Roman houses, and though others could be removed (by censors) or given a position, it didn't mean they were entitled to speak. However, the senate elected members to their internal offices: The Plebian counsil for example voted for who would be the People's Tribune, or Tribunus Plebis.

Hmm, so George Lucas probably based Star Wars on ancient Rome, right? You know, the whole fall of republic, Palpatine secretly manipulating his way to the top (like Caesar), then, when he had enough military power (in this case, the clone troopers) forced his control over the galaxy by killing all of the Jedi. The Jedis were basically the protectors of the republic and had much influence over the republic, and by slaying the jedis (like how Caesar threatened the Senate) gained control of the Republic, and renamed it the Galactic Empire (Roman republic -> Roman Empire). But unlike history, democracy wins this war, as the Rebel alliance defeat the Empire, while the Roman Empire slowly crumbled under the pressures of nearby barbarian raids.

[ElizabethLestrad]

I actually proposed something like this a while ago on a different forum. Here is the overall plan that I had envisioned on a mod like this:

Ok, so as the story goes, the lands of Cirodill were divided and in a state of chaos until Tiber Septum shows up and with a great army at his back, unites Cirodill under a single banner. But the question I always wondered, was what happened to the people who fought against Septum? What if they were still very much alive and simply biding their time, waiting for their own champion to lead them into a golden age of their own.

But now Septim is dead, as is all of his heirs. Cirodills power lies solely on the shoulders of a weak senate like structure as well as the regional lords. The Empire is in a state of disarray, and that means one thing - their vulnerable....

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Essentially my goal is this: Create a second series of quests resulting either in utter defeat, or the conquering of a once great Empire. Obviously this would be for "Evil" characters only. The player would be able to start this quest series only after he has completed the main quest.
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QUEST IDEAS THUS FAR:

- Locating Castle Conquera, The Black Citadel

- Player must participate in a series of duels to gain the respect of the mercenaries.

- Finding allies and supplies for a prolonged campaign

- Raid on the Imperial Prison to release criminals and other prisoners to fight for you.

- Several quests where you assassinate the leaders of each outlying city and replace them with someone who would be loyal to you. This would lead to tension in the city between the "New Guard" (Mercenaries disguised as guards who are guarding the castles, and the "Old Guard" who remain loyal to the old rulers and to the Imperial Throne.

- The attack commences. The guards in the cities wait only the signal. In order to send the signal you have to march your armies and pillage the farms that scatter the countrysides while letting the farmers escape. This will cut off the Empire's food supply... The idea behind this is that the survivors go back to the Imperial City and tell of the attacks, the Imperial Legion dispatches their soldiers which lessens the garrison inside the city.

- Once the Imperial Legion is drawn out of the protection of their capitol, the merenaries can start killing them off. At the same time, the "New Guard" moves in and arrests the members of the "Old Guard" and imprisons them for treason (What else?). A curfew is put in place and people are to remain inside their homes.

- With the legion in chaos trying to handle not only the mercenaries but the uprisings in the other cities, you lead a small group of soldiers thought the sewers and into the city, bypassing all defenses and attempt to capture the Head Counsilor to hold as ransom. Unfortunatly, he escapes and now you are trapped in the palace with Imperial Reinforcements on the way. You then have to hold out till reinforcements of your own can come to your aid and you manage to capture the city.

- With the last remnants of the "Old Empire" huddled inside Cloud Ruler Temple you make the final push and lead your army to victory.

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Variables-

Oblviously I want to make it require a bit of strategy too so for example Id make all the mercenaries level "5" or something to start and have a NPC that is in charge of training your soldiers. The more money you put into training them (which will be fairly expensive) the better chance you have of victory.

Same thing with buying supplies for your army through the black market (Thieves guild?) The more money your willing to spend to get decent supplies for your army, the better chance they have of winning.

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IF YOU WIN:

Player will be the ruler of the New Empire. Civilians will fear you (Or bow to you). The world would basically be the same as after the game but the Imperial Guards/Town Guards are replaced with new guards who are loyal to you, and will not arrest you if you commit a crime. The corpses of important figures (Like Watchcaptains, Lords and Ladies of the other cities, and the Counsilors would be strung up outside cities as an example. Things of that nature. Infamy increases greatly)

Each week taxes are collected and you keep a percentage after paying your men.

IF YOU LOSE (At any time):

The quest ends with an entry intailing your surrender and the defeat of your "great army", your infamy increases greatly and you are thrown in prison to be executed the next day if you are unable to escape into exile (your castle...since they never find it)...why is it that "good" nations always imprison enemies instead of just killing them instead of giving them a chance to be rescued or to escape? You will be attacked on sight by imperial guard and city guard, and everything else would "reset" as if the whole thing never happened.
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Battles (I imagine) would work through the use of a NPC who acts like a General of sorts. You tell him "Send 'Company ' to X ('X' being a location out of a list of important locations)" All NPC's belonging to the unit then fast travel (or not?) to location X and take control of that location killing any guards or imperial legion people who come near that area.

The two companies that you control would have 5 swordsmen, 3 archers, a "Captain" and a dark priest

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Basically it comes down to the only things that need to be done is:

-Creating a dark castle and small town up in the mountains beyond Bruma.

-10 NPCs for Companies I and II

-A npc for the Training Instructor, the players General

-A tavern owner and a blacksmith for the mercenary castle

-Mercenary replacements for the city guards

-Corrupted officials to replace the city lords

-The quests themselves

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Really it sounds elaborate but there dont have to be as many scripted events as it seems since most of the revolution/invasion is done when the player is not around. And really you dont even necessarily have to create the mercenaries from scratch. Could just clone a pre-existing NPC and change some stuff around.

Unfortunatly I've never quite gotten the hang of the editor. Im more of a writer than a programmer. But I was wondering what people would think of something like this?

[Phsyron]

sounds good. could use a LITTLE tweaking in the backstory, but the actaul mod sounds great.

[Hanz baby]

I LOVE elizabeth(something)s idea i hope it works out because i would love to see a couple of characters in oblivion laying face down in a pool of blood (without being arrested)