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RG4's PC Modding Crisis Thread |
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Renee |
Dec 22 2013, 01:49 AM
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Councilor
Joined: 19-March 13
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
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Check it out, my very first post in a modding forum. Interestingly enough this forum happens to be rather slow. I can see some threads haven't been touched since summer or even earlier. Enough with the small talk though. I am starting this thread because (let's face it) I am new to PC gaming and I'm going to need a LOT of help in the upcoming months and years. So this thread is a place to hopefully get all my answers questions, and questions answers. And of course if somebody else has questions they can ask 'em too. I keep a 'modding file' on a Word Pad page located in one of my PC's folders, and I've been adding a lot of helpful random advice there, but one of my probs is sometimes I'll read something online in some thread, and then later I'll go to have a look at that thread, trying to remember what the solution is to a problem, but I can't find it anymore. I'm somewhat of a PC dummy, but also a fast learner. I'm not sure if Beth's forums have a decent modding community; I'm sure it's great (and with a low rate of flaming), but I also can sometimes get too overwhelmed by Bethesda's official forums. I also know that Beth is packed with rude gamers, and I don't have time for that sort of nonsense. Also, Why ask questions there when everybody I trust is already here, right? I've been hearing about how great Wrye Bash is, so this is one of the very first things I think I'll mess with. I have also heard Nexus is better than Steam to get mods from, so I'm following that advice. When I go on Nexus and try to locate Wrye Bash, I find a page which has several different versions (?) attached to it. Which one do I choose? I am assuming it's this one? This post has been edited by Renee Gade IV: Dec 22 2013, 01:49 PM
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Acadian |
Dec 22 2013, 04:19 AM
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Paladin
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Las Vegas
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Renee, I started with OBMM for installs and have stayed with it for that purpose. Not because it's better but because I'm used to it and it does what I need for installs. I do have an older version on WB installed so can't help much on current events with WB. WB is good for two main things. First, as a utility. It beats the pants off of any alternative (like Oblivion Animation Fixer - OAF) for fixing the A bomb every few hundred hours. Thanks to WB, that is a simple 30 second operation. It also is very handy for tweaking some things like deleting spells from your spellbook or reweighing potions if you don't use mods for such things. So, even with an OBMM install, I consider WB an essential utility. The second main purpose of WB is for installing mods via the Bash Installer (BAIN). Since I am comfortable with OBMM and somewhat intimidated by BAIN's steeper learning curve, I'm not familiar with using BAIN. There are a great number of OB players whose opinions I greatly respect that absolutely swear by BAIN, and the majority of heavy OB mod users recommend it for install. If I were starting anew, I would spend the time to learn BAIN.
I'm no whiz at installing mods. If I was interested in talking to someone at Chorrol who likely is familiar with WB, I would consider Pseron Wyrd - if he's not a Bash master, I'm sure he can help get you in touch with someone who is. He has another advantage of being familiar with modding TES III, IV and V. Another likely candidate might be ghastley.
One area that I do profess a sound knowledge of however is the command console. I developed a love for the wonderful things it can do years ago and have maintained my love and interest for it.
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Grits |
Dec 22 2013, 04:59 AM
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Councilor
Joined: 6-November 10
From: The Gold Coast
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That's the one I'm using. (The standalone version.) If I remember correctly there is an installer. The main thing for me was to give myself a lot of time and not panic. I am very much a clueless beginner! But it does the work. I got it so that I could make NPCs out of some of my characters following Pseron Wyrd's instructions. The more I learn, the more I love it. Oh! I forgot to say that the few mods I’ve gotten from Steam I’ve made sure to unsubscribe from right away so that I don’t get automatic updates. I like to wait a little and see if an update adds something I want to the mod (not to mention actually works) before I put it in my game. I've only used Steam for Skyrim, but I’m guessing the process must be similar for Oblivion. Here’s another thing I didn’t know until I’d been fooling around for a while. On the Nexus you can use the green Track button on a mod's page and then check your tracking center (near the bottom of the Files menu) to see what’s been updated recently. Then you just go to the mod page and figure out what’s been changed. . This post has been edited by Grits: Dec 22 2013, 05:14 AM
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King Coin |
Dec 22 2013, 05:35 AM
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Master
Joined: 6-January 11
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QUOTE(Grits @ Dec 21 2013, 09:59 PM) I've only used Steam for Skyrim, but I’m guessing the process must be similar for Oblivion.
I don't think there is a Steam Workshop for Oblivion. I use Nexus for the reasons Grits said. Sometimes I want to see what the mod update includes before putting it in my game. And there's the occasional screw up by the mod author that ends up breaking something...
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Renee |
Dec 22 2013, 02:09 PM
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Councilor
Joined: 19-March 13
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Dec 21 2013, 09:54 PM) I do not use Wyre Bash, so I am afraid I cannot help there. But Acadian and Wyrd do, and think Grits too. I am sure one of them will chime in with something more useful than this post. What do you use instead of WB? Just curious. Cool, lots of advice here, thank you all. The Wyrdster seems to be missing in action lately, maybe he's been sucked in by CoD: Ghosts. Last night I did go to Beth's forums to simply read their mod FAQs, lots of cool stuff there to read. I now know what an 'install' is, and how they affect modding (the last mod wins or something, assuming several mods which affect the same thing are being employed). And I found a website which will help me get my wired Xbox-style controller working. Arena definitely recognizes it (I'm starting with Arena) but the way the dude wrote the site is all bass-ackwards! Like he says: 'then download the files here and put the .cfg files in the JoyToKey folder.' What the **** does he mean by "here"??? That alone had me stumped for probably close to an hour, until I finally figured out "Here" means the two configuration files he personally linked on the bottom of his page. I am nowhere near to getting my first Oblivion game (which will probably be Lady Saga) up on PC, but when I finally do get her going, I will definitely be ready to roll in no time, instead of struggling to get anything happening. QUOTE(Grits @ Dec 21 2013, 10:59 PM) Oh! I forgot to say that the few mods I’ve gotten from Steam I’ve made sure to unsubscribe from right away so that I don’t get automatic updates. . That sounds interesting. I've heard so many bad things about Steam, and I'm not sure I understand what these automatic updates entail, but I'll try my best to just use Nexus. QUOTE(Acadian @ Dec 21 2013, 10:19 PM) Renee, I started with OBMM for installs and have stayed with it for that purpose. Not because it's better but because I'm used to it and it does what I need for installs.
Is this the one you speak of? http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/39522/? Oh wait, I see that one's for Zelda. This post has been edited by Renee Gade IV: Dec 22 2013, 02:12 PM
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Acadian |
Dec 22 2013, 05:15 PM
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Paladin
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Las Vegas
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QUOTE(Renee Gade IV @ Dec 22 2013, 05:09 AM) QUOTE(Acadian @ Dec 21 2013, 10:19 PM) Renee, I started with OBMM for installs and have stayed with it for that purpose. Not because it's better but because I'm used to it and it does what I need for installs.
Is this the one you speak of? http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/39522/? Oh wait, I see that one's for Zelda. Here is the link to Timeslip’s mod, Oblivion Mod Manager (OBMM). OBMM is simple and works well but, again, if starting anew, I would pick the brain of folks like Grits and try to go for a Bash Installer (BAIN) install via WB.
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Renee |
Dec 23 2013, 05:13 PM
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Councilor
Joined: 19-March 13
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
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Awesome, thanks again, all. I'm pretty confused about which installer to choose, but once I start getting into it I'm sure it'll make more sense. Plus, I don't intend to throw so many mods into my game early on. Actually, now that I just said that out loud, I'm liking Grit's plan of installing manually. I'm planning on starting off slow (that's the plan, anyways).
Actually, that is a good question: I do have one mod that I want to get into my first PC Oblivion game from Day 1. It's a hardcore mod (makes food and eating and sleeping matter more) and I forget which one it is, but I have it written down at home.
The question: is it possible to start a mod before the game actually is even being played? Before the Tutorial starts, and before Character Creation even begins? OR will this screw something up?
I suppose I'll have to find the name of hte mod I speak of first, but it doesn't seem to be a very big one. On the other hand, I DO want to get Better Cities into Joan of Arkay's game before she gets of the Tutorial (so the Imperial City starts off being filled with this mod's stuff). How viable is this plan?
I know BC requires OBSE and I've already got this on my PC.
This post has been edited by Renee Gade IV: Dec 23 2013, 05:16 PM
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King Coin |
Dec 23 2013, 05:26 PM
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Master
Joined: 6-January 11
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QUOTE(Renee Gade IV @ Dec 23 2013, 10:13 AM) The question: is it possible to start a mod before the game actually is even being played? Before the Tutorial starts, and before Character Creation even begins? OR will this screw something up?
There should be no issue with that. And I strongly encourage you to use a mod installer of some type. Especially if you start adding a lot of mods, it can become messy very quickly if you install mods manually. Installers are not really there to make adding mods easier, it's there to make removing them easier. If you do decide to install manually, then keeping a copy of the mod is a must. That way if you do want to uninstall it, you will have something to refer to when you are deleting files.
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Grits |
Dec 23 2013, 08:11 PM
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Councilor
Joined: 6-November 10
From: The Gold Coast
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Yikes!! Let’s rename the Grits method “Asking For Trouble.” I think it’s a great idea to install one or two very simple mods manually so that you get comfortable with the system, but pick something like a mod that adds a new set of armor or maybe one bow. Please, please use an installer for any major overhaul mods. Eventually you will come across a conflict that you have to puzzle out, and adding/removing things one at a time with an installer makes solving issues much simpler. I’d suggest a test character so you can check the game out every time you add something. Fast Travel, use the console, do what it takes with them to make sure the mods are working together. Then add another mod and load up Testy’s game again. Heh heh. Testy. Anyway when you unzip your first mod and take a look at the files, you’ll probably get a gut feeling. If that feeling is “holy skitt,” I’d say pick a smaller one to start with. If it looks like something you can un-do, just be careful.
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Renee |
Dec 24 2013, 03:33 PM
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Councilor
Joined: 19-March 13
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
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QUOTE(Acadian @ Dec 23 2013, 11:23 AM) Once you have the game installed (you did install outside of Program Files, right?), then you can indeed install mods that will be effective when you start the game.
I haven't installed (or touched) Oblivion yet. What do you mean 'outside of Program Files?' Won't the computer automatically put those files wherever it wants to put them? On Windows 8, there are actually TWO program file folders: Program Files, and Program Files(x86). The latter folder is where the game automatically puts gaming files, I have noticed. QUOTE Oh, and you are wise to have OBSE installed. A great many wonderful mods require it.
I have heard we're supposed to use OBSE to load the game too, correct? QUOTE(Grits @ Dec 23 2013, 02:11 PM) Please, please use an installer for any major overhaul mods. Eventually you will come across a conflict that you have to puzzle out, and adding/removing things one at a time with an installer makes solving issues much simpler.
Okay hon, thanks. The test character idea is great; I'm too impatient to get Joan or Saga's game up from the get-go, and that's probably asking for trouble. QUOTE Anyway when you unzip your first mod and take a look at the files, you’ll probably get a gut feeling. If that feeling is “holy skitt,” I’d say pick a smaller one to start with. If it looks like something you can un-do, just be careful. Okay. The very first one I want to add (the hardcore one) seems rather small, while Better Cities of course is gigantic. This post has been edited by Renee Gade IV: Dec 24 2013, 03:34 PM
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Acadian |
Dec 24 2013, 04:58 PM
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Paladin
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Las Vegas
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On Windows Vista and above, mods sometimes get into a peeing contest with the virus protection features afforded by windows to residents of 'Program Files'. That is why most modders install the game in a different place. What you can do is click on 'Computer' to open up and display your drives. Then open your main hard drive (where Program Files and some other folders live). Now, right click in an unused area of you screen and follow the prompts New > Folder to create a new folder. You can name the folder whatever you like (My Games, TES4, or whatever). Then, when you install the game, don't accept the default install location (Program Files); rather, tell the game to install in your newly created folder. Regarding OBSE, yes, if you have it installed, you need to start the game via OBSE instead of auto start or the normal game starting procedures. The read me for OBSE should tell you how to do this. What most of us do is put a shortcut to the OBSE file that opens the game onto our desktop. Another feature of OBSE that ties to WB is that if you are going to fiddle with a script created by OBSE, you must have the construction site open via OBSE. Happily, one of WB's many features is a little button along the bottom tool bar for WB that opens the CS via OBSE with a single click - very handy and that is now the only way I ever open the CS. All this makes me sound much smarter than I am. Mostly I'm simply relaying what I do and what I know works for me. I would certainly defer to most other folks here that use mods, since probably most of them are way smarter about puter stuffs than me. At my age, I attribute most puter things to some sort of unknowable magicks.
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Thomas Kaira |
Dec 24 2013, 05:22 PM
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Mouth
Joined: 10-December 10
From: Flyin', Flyin' in the sky!
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On the topic of Wrye Bash: I swear by it. It has saved my Oblivion installation on multiple occasions (read: full reinstall and I could still use my saves from before the wipe). It is also required if, like me, you use a lot of mods and require merging records for compatibility. Of all the people here, I think my Oblivion is the most heavily modded:
All that and Wrye Bash can still save the installation thanks to its wonderful installer? Go Bash or go home, is what I say. Do not hesitate to ask about Bash, as it is well worth it, but does have a learning curve.
Acadian is right about Vista and this carries over to 7, as well. If you install your game in "Program Files" Windows will likely block mods from loading properly. That is why I install all of my games to the C\:Games directory and NOT program files. This prevents UAC from causing problems for me, while also allowing me to keep it turned on.
OBSE is needed for certain mods. I actually have several that are not listed there which do some more low-level things, like let me copy the contents of the Console (which OBSE prints debug messages to) to a text file, or optimizes the game engine's memory management a bit so to reduce the stutter. Just remember, as said, you need to launch the game through the OBSE loader, as OBSE uses the Injection method to insert itself into Oblivion's EXE file.
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Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?
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