TK's Mod Questions Thread, Got mod problems, or are you just lost with a tool? Options

[Thomas Kaira]

First off, some useful links and utilities:

The Bethesda Oblivion Mods forum, this is where you'll want to go for all the latest news and updates on the mountains of unofficial content we all take for granted. If I don't have the answer you're looking for, chances are one of the many people here do.

Oblivion Mod Manager, I don't think I need to explain this one.

Better Oblivion Sorting Software, this is a well maintained utility that reads the mods you have installed and suggests the best order to load them in to avoid the inevitable conflicts. This is another must-have.

Wrye Bash, the Swiss army knife of Oblivion modding, and I swear by it. It's intimidating at first, but surprisingly easy to use once you figure out how it works. Finally, Once you figure out BAIN, you will never need to worry about installation problems again.

Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide for Newbies, if you are just starting Bash, it can be very easy to get lost in how much it does. This will help you get on the right foot.

TES4Edit, a very important tool. Most of its features don't concern the end user, but its ability to clean up dirty and unneeded edits in a plugin is invaluable.

TES4Edit Cleaning Guide at the TESCS Wiki. It contains a comprehensive list of mods that need to be cleaned, mods that are already clean, and mods that should not be cleaned, as well as a comprehensive guide on how to actually do it.

So, it seems I have become "Mr. Modder" around these here parts, so I've decided to open this little thread if you have any questions for me. Questions about making modding easier for yourself, how to use a specific tool, if you've encountered a rather irksome problem and can't figure out what to do about it, or if you want to make your game perform a bit better. I will be the first to admit I'm not a professional modder, as I don't make my own mods. I do have the experience needed to maintain a heavy load order with minimal issues, as well as understanding a few advanced tricks to squeeze every last drop of performance out of the game, so I do know what I'm talking about.

If anyone has any doubts, this is my load order:



So with that, ask away.

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Feb 8 2011, 06:46 AM

[TheOtherRick]

Thanks for starting this thread TK. You might be sick of me before this is through, but hopefully you won't regret starting it. I just looked at your mod list/load order. WOW! 11 .esm files to start the list. I am not looking to change the game to that extent. However, I am looking to make it more immersive than what I have now. That is the ultimate goal. Of the bold printed utilities that you have listed, I only have OBMM. I have stayed away from Wrye Bash and BAIN, and wasn't aware of BOSS (other than seeing it mentioned in passing). I had not heard of TES4Edit until this post. So, before I (we) embark on this, allow me to post my current mod list/load order -

00-Oblivion.esm
01-Cobl Main.esm
02-Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
03-DLCShiveringIsles.esp
04-Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch
05-SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp
06-Knights.esp
07-Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
08-SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp
09-Cobl Glue.esp
10-Cobl Si.esp
11-Cobl Tweaks.esp
12-Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp
13-Real Hunger, Cobl.esp
14-Living Economy - SI.esp
15-Living Economy - Items.esp
16-Harvest[Flora].esp
17-Harvest[Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
18-Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp
19-AliveWaters.esp
20-AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp
21-RealSleepExtended.esp
22-Cyrodiil transportation network.esp
23-za_bankmod.esp
24-kuerteeGoldIsAnInventoryItem.esp
25-Chapel Tithe.esp
26-Cobl Races - Balanced.esp
27-Cobl Races.esp
28-Cobl Races TNR.esp
29-Cobl Races TNR SI.esp
30-Laesea_House_v1.0.esp
31-FormID Finder4.esp

This list is from OBMM. I have OBSE v18 and Pluggy v125. Two OMOD files - DarkUld_DarN_16_OMOD_Version-11280 and Oblivion Graphics Extender. The game runs smoothly. Before I add anything, I would like advice my current list (changes/tweaks). I don't know the code for "show/hide spoiler", so sorry about the post length.

[Thomas Kaira]

The code for spoiler boxes is [*spoiler][*/spoiler] tags (remove the stars).

Now, Load order advice...

14-Living Economy - SI.esp
15-Living Economy - Items.esp

Living economy has been rendered obsolete by Enhanced Economy. Be sure to pick up MenuQue alongside it, because this particular modder uses it quite a bit.

12-Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp

If you start noticing a lot of crashing for no reason around Skingrad, you may need to turn this one off. Leave it on for now, though, because it makes every visit to Salmo a delicious experience.

Aside from running BOSS to achieve the optimal load order, those are the only things that stand out to me. Glad to see you read the readmes!

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Feb 9 2011, 04:28 AM

[TheOtherRick]

OK...so Step 1 completed! Thank you for the quick reply. Step 2 is info gathering before making changes, with the following questions...

1) - Is BOSS to be used in lieu of OBMM or in conjunction with it?

2) - Are all of the mods on your list available at TESNexus? (That way I can look them up instead of clogging this thread with questions about them.)

I am going to assume that any mod on your list will will have a dependency list, either in the readme or the mod description.

And yes...the very first thing I do is read and re-read the readmes...The first and cardinal rule of installing mods!

[Thomas Kaira]

1. In conjunction with. Occasionally BOSS will happen across a mod it does not recognize, and you will have to sort it by hand.

2. A great deal of my mods are available on the Nexus. As for dependencies, yes, most mod authors will let you know about them. Just watch out for a few of the mods that are marked ++ or ** in my load order. Most of them are harmless, but there are a few of them (Item Interchange for one) that are not designed to be activated.

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Feb 9 2011, 05:02 AM

[Acadian]

Wow, TK knows mods, and can cook too!

Thanks for starting this thread. It's so nice to have some 'in house' real expertise here. As you know, I'm hoping this summer to spend some time getting more sophisticated with my mod usage. I'm sure I'l be pestering you lots then!

[TheOtherRick]

... Just watch out for a few of the mods that are marked ++ or ** in my load order. Most of them are harmless, but there are a few of them (Item Interchange for one) that are not designed to be activated.

Confusion here...Why would there even be a mod that is designed not to be activated? Also, if it is not too much of a pain the keester, could you tell me which mods those might be? I see that you already named "Item Exchange".

[mALX]

Thank you so much for starting this thread TK !!!

[Thomas Kaira]

Confusion here...Why would there even be a mod that is designed not to be activated? Also, if it is not too much of a pain the keester, could you tell me which mods those might be? I see that you already named "Item Exchange".

I said that because some mods, like Item Interchange, you will notice if you look in Bash, have 50+ dependencies. Mods like those require Wrye Bash's Bashed Patch to use, because activating those mods directly will render the game unable to start.

It's an advanced installation technique.

As for which mods to expect this to happen on, they are usually labeled as "Filter Patches." If you have a mod that has Filter Patch in its title, it's a good idea to leave it out of your load order if you don't have Bash.

[mALX]

When you have just downloaded a mod, unzipped it - do you copy the folders into the Bethesda/Oblivion/Data file? Or do you copy the contents inside the folders into the Bethesda/Oblivion/Data file?



If you are supposed to just copy the folders - and you have (erroneously) copied the (inside contents of the folders) and placed them in the Oblivion Data folder - and now your Oblivion Data folder is a mess of loose files that you can't place what mod they go to - many of which could have been removed by now because you no longer use them ... er ... How do you clean up your Oblivion Data File?

I have TES4Edit, but only mod .ESP's are showing up on it, and these lose items in the Data folder are not showing up as anything on it. - also, I'm really not sure what the H I'm doing with it, not sure what the H I'm supposed to be doing with it.

Since my game crashed, I've been trying to clean out all the mods I wasn't using/clean out all these loose files I don't know what mod they originally belonged to/either keep intact or re-install mods I want to use (install correctly this time)

GAAAAAH!

This post has been edited by mALX: Feb 11 2011, 02:24 PM

[Thomas Kaira]

Actually, I do not recommend manual installation, as it tends to be extremely hard to undo those (as you very well have seemed to notice). If you are still relatively inexperienced with BAIN, your best bet would be to use Oblivion Mod Manager's OMOD installer feature. Simple packages are very easy to install via OMOD, you just need to maintain the standard Data format for the game (all folders appear as they would if you were to enter the Data folder: meshes, menus, textures, etc.) as well as the plugin, which does not go in any folder. You then open OBMM, select "Create OMOD," select the folder the mod files are in, and finally click "Create." There you go! One easy to install and uninstall OMOD package!

The downside: larger mods with multiple install options tend to require a custom script in order to install everything properly. I therefore still must recommend you take the time to learn BAIN. Believe it or not, BAIN is actually simpler than OBMM!

As for your data folder, at this point, if it's as much of a mess as you say, take note of all your esp files (if you install the Construction Set, it will mark all your ESMs and ESPs with a handy little swiss army knife icon to make your life easier), and delete anything that is not an ESM, ESP, BSA, TXT, or INI. If you are really uncertain, and you don't have a lot of mods installed, starting over is also a viable option. The base Oblivion data folder contains these files:

Folder: Music
Folder: Shaders
Folder: Textures (it only contains one, TerrainNoise.dds, but you can actually delete this entire folder, because the TerrainNoise texture is also in the BSA)
Folder: Video
Credits.TXT
Oblivion (BSA X 6+ESM)

(DLC if you have them)
DLCBattlehornCastle (BSA+ESP)
DLCFrostcrag (BSA+ESP)
DLCHorseArmor (BSA+ESP)
DLCList.TXT
DLCMehrunesRazor (ESP)
DLCOrrery (BSA+ESP)
DLCShiveringIsles (BSA X 4+ESP)
DLCSpellTomes (ESP)
DLCThievesDen (BSA+ESP)
DLCVileLair (BSA+ESP)
Knights (BSA+ESP)

[mALX]

Actually, I do not recommend manual installation, as it tends to be extremely hard to undo those (as you very well have seemed to notice). If you are still relatively inexperienced with BAIN, your best bet would be to use Oblivion Mod Manager's OMOD installer feature. Simple packages are very easy to install via OMOD, you just need to maintain the standard Data format for the game (all folders appear as they would if you were to enter the Data folder: meshes, menus, textures, etc.) as well as the plugin, which does not go in any folder. You then open OBMM, select "Create OMOD," select the folder the mod files are in, and finally click "Create." There you go! One easy to install and uninstall OMOD package!

The downside: larger mods with multiple install options tend to require a custom script in order to install everything properly. I therefore still must recommend you take the time to learn BAIN. Believe it or not, BAIN is actually simpler than OBMM!

As for your data folder, at this point, if it's as much of a mess as you say, take note of all your esp files (if you install the Construction Set, it will mark all your ESMs and ESPs with a handy little swiss army knife icon to make your life easier), and delete anything that is not an ESM, ESP, BSA, TXT, or INI. If you are really uncertain, and you don't have a lot of mods installed, starting over is also a viable option. The base Oblivion data folder contains these files:

Folder: Music
Folder: Shaders
Folder: Textures (it only contains one, TerrainNoise.dds, but you can actually delete this entire folder, because the TerrainNoise texture is also in the BSA)
Folder: Video
Credits.TXT
Oblivion (BSA X 6+ESM)

(DLC if you have them)
DLCBattlehornCastle (BSA+ESP)
DLCFrostcrag (BSA+ESP)
DLCHorseArmor (BSA+ESP)
DLCList.TXT
DLCMehrunesRazor (ESP)
DLCOrrery (BSA+ESP)
DLCShiveringIsles (BSA X 4+ESP)
DLCSpellTomes (ESP)
DLCThievesDen (BSA+ESP)
DLCVileLair (BSA+ESP)
Knights (BSA+ESP)

This list is going to be a great help when I try to clean up the Data file!! (Thank You, Thank You!!) I have only a few mods that I am really hesitant to mess with, Kawa Khajiit is the main one of these. I ... ARGH ... accidentally deleted the original file. DesuChan has a new one out, but it is not the same ... and I really don't want to lose the Maxical I have. - THAT is the main reason I don't just un-install the whole game and start over.

I installed the latest Wrye-Bash, does it have BAIN or is that something I have to install seperately? (and I have not had time to read the "Wrye-Bash for dummies" yet - but will before I fool with it again. I do have the OBMM and the latest OBSE installed.

OBMM OMOD - GAAAAAH! URG! I ... thought I was taking a short cut by not making OMODs, thinking I may mess it up. GAAAAH! Bleah.

This post has been edited by mALX: Feb 11 2011, 05:51 PM

[Thomas Kaira]

OBMM and OBSE don't touch anything inside the Data folder (well, OBSE sorta does, so if you have an obse folder inside your data folder, leave it alone), so you don't need to worry about messing them up.

BAIN is part of Wrye Bash, it is not a separate download. If you want to know how helpful it is, I am in the middle of a small modding project myself right now (generating landscape LOD for some mod combos) and it is SO helpful to be able to uninstall my texture packs (restoring vanilla textures) in only seconds, and without ever having to worry about messing up another mod in the process.

[mALX]

OBMM and OBSE don't touch anything inside the Data folder (well, OBSE sorta does, so if you have an obse folder inside your data folder, leave it alone), so you don't need to worry about messing them up.

BAIN is part of Wrye Bash, it is not a separate download. If you want to know how helpful it is, I am in the middle of a small modding project myself right now (generating landscape LOD for some mod combos) and it is SO helpful to be able to uninstall my texture packs (restoring vanilla textures) in only seconds, and without ever having to worry about messing up another mod in the process.

Now that you have mentioned this...one of my werewolf mods messed with the Oblivion music that I love so much - replaced it with something I do not like much at all. I removed the mod (or possibly just unchecked it) - but I was walking outdoors and suddenly that (bleah) new music was playing - even with the mod not activated. Has it changed my Oblivion music files permanently? If so, is there a way to restore them to their original?

[Thomas Kaira]

Default music tracks:

Battle folder:
-battle_01 thru _08

Dungeon folder
-dungeon_01_v2 thru dungeon_05

Explore
-atmosphere_01 thru _09
-(_02 and _05 do not exist)

Public
-town_01 thru _05

Special:
-tes4title
-success
-death

[mALX]

Default music tracks:

Battle folder:
-battle_01 thru _08

Dungeon folder
-dungeon_01_v2 thru dungeon_05

Explore
-atmosphere_01 thru _09
-(_02 and _05 do not exist)

Public
-town_01 thru _05

Special:
-tes4title
-success
-death

Where do I look to verify I have these - and how do I reset it to the default music? (you never knew I could be so much trouble ... and I haven't messed with Wrye-Bash yet!)

This post has been edited by mALX: Feb 12 2011, 09:32 PM

[Thomas Kaira]

They should be in the music folder, unless the werewolf mod overwrote them. In which case, the mod was shoddily packaged, as overwriting the default files is a cardinal sin of modding Oblivion.

The music in this game is just a bunch of MP3 files tossed into their various folders, so it should be easy to verify.

If they have gone missing, you'll need to reinstall the game to get them back.

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Feb 12 2011, 09:41 PM

[mALX]

They should be in the music folder, unless the werewolf mod overwrote them. In which case, the mod was shoddily packaged, as overwriting the default files is a cardinal sin of modding Oblivion.

The music in this game is just a bunch of MP3 files tossed into their various folders, so it should be easy to verify.

If they have gone missing, you'll need to reinstall the game to get them back.

I have only checked the "Battle" folder so far - and it has (1-3) Other on top, then below that the (1-8)

- but when I click on the first 3 MP3 files - nothing happens. When I click on the Bethesda MP3 files - all their battle music plays just fine.


This post has been edited by mALX: Feb 12 2011, 10:23 PM

[Thomas Kaira]

Not sure I follow. Do you have the battle_01 through battle_08 tracks all inside, along with three extras that are titled differently?

If yes, just delete those three extra tracks, leaving only battle_01 through battle_08, and repeat that pattern in the rest of the folders.

[mALX]

Never mind, they are playing their sucky music now. - so do I just move them/delete them? They are def NOT Bethesda music.