Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Grits Dec 9 2011, 12:40 PM

Yay, new section!! Thank you very much.



For those who want to postpone the Main Quest for a dragon-free game, here’s what is working for me.

I have two characters who have told the Jarl of Whiterun about the dragon at Helgen but have not gone to Bleak Falls Barrow. There have not been any dragons in either of their games (other than Alduin at Helgen), and one is Level 19. I think it should be safe to go into Whiterun and even talk to the Jarl, if you stay out of BFB.

Of course you can’t buy the Whiterun house without completing Dragon Rising, at least that’s my understanding.

It might be an even later event that starts the dragons, does anyone know? Maybe returning to the Jarl after the events in BFB. As soon as the next patch comes out for the PS3 I’ll do a little barrow diving and see what happens.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Dec 9 2011, 01:18 PM

I would think that dragons don't start appearing until you defeat the first one at East Watchtower and learn you are Dragonborn. That way, you don't see any until the game has introduced you to fighting them, and giving you a small army to help you out.

Posted by: mALX Dec 9 2011, 01:52 PM

I too have avoided Bleak Falls Barrow in my game (thanks to King Coin's warning) - and am also enjoying a dragon-free game.

In fact, I actually "discovered" Bleak Falls Barrow by accident last week, and was scared to death I may have triggered the dragons.

I ran like a banshee (did NOT go inside at all). I watched the sky a LOT after that to see if any dragons appeared - really didn't want to have to load a previous save unless necessary.

So far (thank goodness) still having a great dragon-free game.

Posted by: liliandra nadiar Dec 9 2011, 05:40 PM

You sure it's going into BFB that triggers dragons? I would think it would be either the Word, the druger boss or looting the dragonstone that would set it off. Giving the stone to Faragar sets off Dragon Rising so I had been thinking it was the trigger point for dragons.

Posted by: Grits Dec 9 2011, 06:23 PM

I think the trigger is probably somewhere in Dragon Rising like TK said. Staying out of BFB means you can’t get the stone that starts the whole thing, which is easier for me to remember and my only safe recommendation. I’m going to try starting Dragon Rising and going as far as meeting Irileth at the Western Watchtower but not talking to the surviving guard for awhile and see what happens. I think the last conversation triggers Mirmulnir, and then it’s dragons ho! I just don’t remember which is the last conversation that the player initiates. Is it the one at the tower with Irileth, or does the player find the surviving guard there? I’m guessing that one of those is the point of no return. That’s what I’m going to check.

As soon as we get the patch.

Posted by: liliandra nadiar Dec 9 2011, 07:01 PM

I know just approaching the tower will start the attack, once the guard starts walking down the ramp it starts. And he'll do that even if no one's near. Nither Irileth or I were close enough to trigger the conversation, and on two occasions Irileth and the guard hadn't even arrived yet.

As far as I remember, the last player triggered conversation is giving the stone to the mage. Don't know if the PC being there would have an effect on the conversation with the Jarl and the guard, I know Irelith and her 'pep-talk' will go with or without the PC. I think I'll do some testing of start up conditions as well.

Posted by: mALX Dec 9 2011, 07:09 PM

All I know is, putting Bleak Falls Barrow on the map did not trigger it, but I'm not going inside and pressing my luck till I'm darn good and ready for dragons to pop out.

When I am ready, I'll retrieve the stone and then wander around, see if anything is different.


** Also, something to think about: In Oblivion the gates were set off by bringing Martin to Cloud Ruler Temple. After that you could trigger gates by walking through areas, but they wouldn't pop up till the next time you came through.

It may be the same with the dragons. Maybe going into Bleak Falls Barrow enables them, and the player triggers certain random ones by walking through areas - but won't see that dragon till the next time they walk through that particular place.

Posted by: McBadgere Dec 9 2011, 10:41 PM

The trigger things for the Dragons is giving the stone to the Wizard in the Jarl's place...

I did the Golden Claw quest in BFB pretty much as soon as I started the game...You can do the whole thing...Beat the boss at the end, grab the Dragonstone (granted you can't then drop it and it weighs 25), then learn the word and no dragons...

I didn't start the MQ till I was in the Level 30s...I'm now Level 42...So now there's something about me, bayaybeeh soo riiiiight...*Cough*...Sorry...Decent English band alert!!...

Aaamywho...Methinks talking to the Jarl about Dragons is Taking The Amulet To Jauffre™ and giving the Dragonstone to the dude is Finding Martin™ which sets the whole thing off...

Posted by: Grits Dec 10 2011, 04:44 AM

Good grief, I never thought about how much the stone would weigh. I'm glad my characters aren't dragging that thing around! Just think of all the fur shoes they would have to leave behind when they're looting.

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 10 2011, 04:55 AM

For some reason you now have me thinking of the Simpson's/X-Files crossover, http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=35516.1240. "Who would've thought a whale could be so heavy?"

Posted by: Grits Dec 10 2011, 05:03 AM

D'oh!! I've been made lazy by Oblivion's zero weight quest items!

Posted by: McBadgere Dec 10 2011, 05:11 AM

Btw...For all those wanting to do the Golden Claw thing in BFB, you can start it in Riverwood Trading in...Umm...Where was it again?...Damn...

Aaaanyways...If you just go in there you can get to the end by rescuing the dude from the spidey then searching him later, you get the claw from him...Then more exploring...But it belongs to the shop...

Just so you know...

Posted by: mALX Dec 10 2011, 04:55 PM

...Er...huh? So even if we find the claw on a dead guy, it is owned by someone else? Can we use it first before returning it to the traders?

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 10 2011, 10:10 PM

WARNING MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD!!!




My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that Dragon Rising incites the appearance of the dragons. You can go into Bleak Falls Barrow, claim the Golden Claw and the Dragonstone, and even make your way back to Dragonsreach. As long as you don’t turn the Dragonstone over to Farengar you should be safe. I have actually gone into Farengar’s office and eavesdropped on his conversation with Delphine with the Dragonstone in my inventory (I wanted to use the Arcane Enchanter). Then I left and literally walked (not ran) from Whiterun to Riften to Winterhold to Markarth with no further thoughts (or appearances) of dragons. When I went back eleven levels later Farengar was still talking to Delphine. Just be quick because the moment he finishes talking to Delphine he initiates conversation with you and takes the Dragonstone. Even then you can still get away without triggering the dragons as long as Irileth doesn't show up. When Irileth comes into the room and says: “A dragon has been spotted . . .” that locks you into Dragon Rising, Mirmulnir, and the rest of the cliff racers, er . . . dragons.

Hint: You have to use it to get the Dragonstone.

Posted by: mALX Dec 10 2011, 11:11 PM

Well...I kind of figured that, lol. But I was not sure how one gets it into their own inventory with no stolen tags on it, lol.

Posted by: liliandra nadiar Dec 11 2011, 12:27 AM

It's probably marked as a lootable quest item, so you can pick it up from the dark elf and use it, but not get rid of it until you talk to Lucy in the Riverwood Trader.

Posted by: mALX Dec 12 2011, 03:39 AM

Well, having completed Bleak Flats Barrow for both the Golden Hand and the Court Wizard in Whiterun (but not completing either quest) last night - I went to Shearpoint and waited several days, plus fast traveled in several times - no dragons !! WOO HOO !!!

Before I shut everything down I was trying to get Throat of the World on my map without doing any quests to get there. So far no luck. Am seriously considering buying a horse and trying, lol.

Posted by: Grits Dec 17 2011, 06:48 PM

I just ran through this with Jensa. Wow, if you're standing close enough everything just keeps happening. I thought there were dialog breaks, but nope. It's the way Destri described.


If I want to avoid dragons, I'll avoid picking up the Dragonstone in BFB. Otherwise my nerves will be wrecked every time I go in to talk to Farengar. I can see me getting my character stuck running against a table in panic while Irileth keeps getting closer.

Posted by: mALX Dec 17 2011, 07:29 PM

Maybe you can run up to the deck and fast travel from there !!! Lol.

Posted by: McBadgere Dec 17 2011, 07:53 PM

Erm...Couldn't you just avoid going to Dragonsreach?... ...I did for absolutely ages...

And when I had to go there for a seperate quest I just kept backing out of the conversations with Irileth...

Posted by: mALX Dec 17 2011, 08:13 PM

I finally went to Bleak Falls Barrow and got the Dragonstone - and like you have been avoiding going back into Dragonsreach again (or even bringing the golden claw to Riverwood). So far no dragons, so all is good.

Posted by: Grits Dec 17 2011, 10:59 PM

Certainly yes, even the most marginally aware person could have the stone in hand and still sidestep the whole thing with grace.

I, however, once had a character in Oblivion run up to chat with that cute Legion Forester while being chased by Legionnaires. I have to anticipate the ways I can screw it up.

Posted by: McBadgere Dec 17 2011, 11:01 PM

...Bless... ...

Posted by: mALX Dec 17 2011, 11:13 PM

So...er...what were you being chased by the Legion for? Hmmm? Lol.

Posted by: liliandra nadiar Dec 17 2011, 11:18 PM

Harassment I'm guessing.

Posted by: mALX Dec 18 2011, 12:17 AM

Lol !!! Sure makes one wonder, lol.

Posted by: Grits Dec 18 2011, 12:35 AM

There was nudity involved. It was the aftermath of the Sanguine quest. She was not an accomplished criminal, so she ran.

Posted by: mALX Dec 18 2011, 02:45 AM

Huh? Was this in Oblivion?

Posted by: Grits Dec 18 2011, 02:57 AM

Er, yes, I seem to have steered us a little off topic.

Posted by: mALX Dec 18 2011, 03:09 AM

AHA !!! And I was just about to blame Bethesda for re-using the same quest over again, ROFL !!!

Posted by: McBadgere Dec 18 2011, 04:25 AM

*Nods*...

*Walks off grinning*...

Posted by: mirocu Feb 10 2013, 08:57 PM

I enjoy a gate-free Cyrodiil and I´d enjoy a dragon-free Skyrim too. If I played it, that is

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 11 2013, 12:56 AM

That's cool. I have had three Oblivion games with gates in them, and zero Skyrim ones with dragons.

OB: 3
Sky: 0

Posted by: King Coin Feb 11 2013, 01:05 AM

I have one Skyrim game with dragons and one without. Oblivion, the majority of my games were gate free.

Posted by: SubRosa Feb 11 2013, 01:12 AM

I have had 3 Skyrim games with partial dragons in them. Those are the ones I did the Civil War with. The only dragons in those games were Alduin at the start, and the one at the Western Watchtower that you have to kill in order to do the civil war. I disabled all the dragons from their lairs and random encounters so I would never see another one.

Otherwise I never have dragons.

Most of my Oblivion games were gate free. I think I had four maybe five that were not.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Feb 11 2013, 01:22 AM

I don't think I ever played Oblivion with the gates active.

The only reason I continue to play Skyrim is to hunt dragons. I don't need dragonrend because it feels like cheating to me, so once I kill Sahloknir and unlock my full Fus Ro Dah I don't touch the MQ again. I would actually hate this game if it weren't for the dragons!

Posted by: King Coin Feb 11 2013, 01:28 AM

The dragons are a lot of fun to fight, and make for great http://i.imgur.com/MagrDh7.jpg I just wish that they were a little bit more challenging. I use a mod that boosts their hitpoints and changes their attack behavior (so they do more flying passes) but they still don't last very long when they land.

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2013, 01:34 AM

I played one game, and completely dragon free. Did a lot of exploring (235 locations on map), began some questlines and finished the College of Winterhold questline. I preferred the radiant quests, to be honest. As long as you never return the stone from the Barrow to the Court Mage in Whiterun the dragons never start.

Posted by: Kiln Feb 11 2013, 05:42 AM

I hate dragons and think they appear way too often. It really ruins my game.

I'll probably restart soon and play dragon free so I can actually enjoy myself.

So can I get a confirmation that the trigger for dragon spawns is actually getting and turning in the item and NOT killing the Whiterun dragon?

Posted by: King Coin Feb 11 2013, 05:45 AM

Don't turn in the dragon stone and you'll have a dragon free game. Leave it where you find it.

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2013, 05:49 AM

You can get the stone, just don't talk to the Court Mage afterward - you'll have to carry it with you in your inventory.

That also means best buy up all the spells you want from the Court Mage before going after the stone, it will be your last chance to talk to him and buy them if you aren't turning in the stone. (and he's got some great spells).

Posted by: SubRosa Feb 11 2013, 06:41 AM

Yes. Basically just never pick it up. It weighs a ton, and there is no sense dragging it around with you if you are not going to complete the quest.

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2013, 06:47 AM

Good idea. It weighs like 25 pounds according to what your game journal says, but KC told me that weighted quest items were fixed with one of the patches. Better be safe than sorry and never pick it up though, SubRosa is right!

(DOH! Why didn't I think of that?)

Posted by: King Coin Feb 11 2013, 07:15 AM

Did I say that? They aren't, so don't grab it!

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 11 2013, 05:24 PM

Dang...there's one during the Civil War? I mean, it would be okay if there was only that ONE dragon, but you're saying that random ones can start showing up after that one at Western Watchtower?



This is what I am afraid of; why I've never gone down the path of including dragons at all. In tabletop games like DnD, dragons can appear randomly, but it's usually a really small chance that this will happen. Like maybe 1 or 2 out of 100 chance to encounter a dragon. If they just show up all the time in Skyrim, not only would this get on my nerves, but encountering them would not be as special.

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2013, 05:29 PM

QFT, and well said. Agreed.

Posted by: SubRosa Feb 11 2013, 06:34 PM

To go past the 2nd or 3rd quest in the Civil War questline you have to deliver the Dragonstone to Farengar, and kill the dragon that appears at Whiterun's Western Watchtower immediately after. Once you deliver that stone and kill the dragon, dragons are unleashed upon the world. They appear at every dragon lair in Skyrim (about a dozen of them, places like Bownstrewn Crest, Mount Anhtor, Spearpoint, etc...) They also start appearing in random encounters which are timed to always happen every two or three days. So you will always be fighting dragons. Even after the main quest ends, the random dragons never stop, and unless you kill them, those in the lairs will never go away.



I like dragons, and think they appear way too often. I think that dragons ought to be a seriously high level boss. I don't mean the critter at the end of the dungeon with a lot of hit points. I mean they ought to be the leaders of guilds, manipulating kings and queens from behind the scenes with their machinations. As Renee feared, they cease to be something special. Skyrim turns them into cliffracers.

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2013, 06:54 PM

That idea is huge! What a game and storyline that would make!

Posted by: Lady Saga Feb 11 2013, 07:59 PM

hamster cave god dammit. That hamster cave sucks. Guess I'm never doing Civil War then. EDIT: not until I have a PC, at least. I will CK that compassion away. Goodbye!

Posted by: SubRosa Feb 11 2013, 08:25 PM

It is not that hard to do thankfully. There is a mod out there that removes the random dragon encounters already. I took that and further modded it to remove all the dragons from their lairs. Presto, no dragons except for the ones spawned by quests.

Posted by: PhonAntiPhon Mar 13 2014, 09:24 AM

Just to add my 10 pence, and admittedly I play on PC - (really Phon? Would never have guessed) - because I want my cake and I want to eat it too, my Skyrim has dragons anyway and the word walls don't work and the actual main quest itself is effectively disabled.
It's just Skyrim. With dragons occasionally and with fancy walls covered with script. And a lot of social unrest...

Equally though it's not all mod managed as neither Eilidh nor Niamh have any intention of mucking about with any of that anyway, they have their own agendas...

Posted by: ghastley Feb 20 2015, 11:23 PM

Just saw that cdcooley released http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/62894 which slows the MQ progression - It's adjustable, and looks like you could put in some silly large numbers to stop it completely. I like some of the other things it does, like letting the player retrieve the horn of Jorgen Windcaller directly.

Posted by: Acadian Feb 21 2015, 12:12 AM

Thanks, ghastley. I noticed that too and can certainly vouch for the talent of cdcooley. For those who don't know, he's responsible for most of the technical stuff in the standard-making Vilja mods.

I'm looking at Timing is Everything - primarily for its ability to adjust random dragon spawn frequency to whatever you like, while leaving normal respawning dragons (on dragon wall/lairs) alone. It also has the ability to pretty much shut down the MQ if you want by starting it ridiculously far out in the future. I think we've got a couple folks here who use Timing is Everything.

Posted by: hazmick Feb 21 2015, 02:02 AM

I know i'm late to the topic, and this might be irrelevant now, but hey ho.

I'm pretty sure that while giving Farengar the stone does indeed introduce dragons, they are restricted to their lairs (and that lone dragon at the watchtower) until you deliver the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller to Delphine a little later in the MQ. That's what I do so I can still get dragon bones and do the Civil War questline but NPC's are safe from unexpected dragon attacks.

Posted by: Lopov Feb 21 2015, 01:54 PM

Timing is Everything has been an essential mod for me for a long time. Not only it allows you to customize dragon spawning and quest requirements, it also allows you to edit a chance of vampire / werewolf attacks, customize requirements for joining the Thieves Guild, a number of assaults to initiate a DB attack, it also has several options regarding Dawnguard and Dragonborn and so on and so forth - it really has a lot of features that add to better gameplay without too many forced quests.

Posted by: Acadian Feb 21 2015, 03:49 PM

hazmick, I've played a couple of Buffy's playthoughs as 'Dragons Lite'. Do the MQ up to where Delphine gives you the horn and wants to talk to you, then tell her you don't have time for her. UESPwiki says as long as her quest 'A Blade in the Dark' is open and unfinished, dragon spawns are restricted to just their walls/lairs. This has worked perfectly for us. Those dragons stay on or close to their walls unless someone/something gets close. This routinely happens out in the 'hot springs flat' where the dragon on that wall things the mammoths and giants are too close and routinely goes after them.

Although I have not used or tested it, somewhere I picked up and noted a console command to disable random dragon spawns. As I said, I haven't tried it but here is the info I have:

set MQ106TurnOffRandomDragons to x (1=no dragons, 0=yes dragons)
I do know that the command: help dragons 3 will give you a readout consistent with the above command to tell you if random dragon attacks are on or off.

Lopov, thanks for the info and endorsement of Timing is Everything - I thought I recalled you saying you used it and that is what got me looking into it.

Posted by: Lopov Feb 22 2015, 10:58 AM

That's true but only when you start 'A Blade in the Dark', before this quest dragons spawn randomly, at least in my game they started appearing as soon as Mirmulnir was killed and I didn't officially finish Dragon Rising quest. I know that Lucius was attacked by a random dragon in wilderness a few days after killing Mirmulnir, and it wasn't a dragon from a word wall.

Posted by: Acadian Feb 22 2015, 01:37 PM

Lopov, thanks for sharing that confirmation. I wasn't sure on that point. Because I was afraid that might happen, we proceeded quickly from Whiterun through the point where we could start and walk away from Delphine's quest. Luckily, no random dragons for us during that short time.