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> Kotor, The Knights of the Old Repulic 1 & 2 topic
SubRosa
post Dec 3 2015, 09:35 PM
Post #41


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Gog.com has the Kotor games - and a slew of other Star Wars games - massively on sale. The Kotors are $2.29 each. So if you don't own them, go out and get them now!

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Dec 3 2015, 09:35 PM


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Callidus Thorn
post Dec 3 2015, 10:17 PM
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Thanks for that Subrosa. Looks like the prices are only massively reduced in the bundle though. As part of the bundle they're 1.59 each, but not separately. They were still 60% off though, so I got them for 2.69 each biggrin.gif

I know I said I was planning to get them after my birthday, but I never expected them to be on sale laugh.gif

I can't download them quite yet, on account of the damage 5.4 gig would do to my datacap, but I've bought them. I'll probably lug my laptop somewhere to download them tomorrow.

Edit: And now I've downloaded them biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: Dec 4 2015, 03:15 PM


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Destri Melarg
post Dec 4 2015, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Dec 1 2015, 02:18 AM) *

But they had proof that something wasn't right. the Mandalorians weren't waging a war of conquest, but actively seeking to draw the Republic into battle. And went to some lengths to do so. And why? To fight the inferior warriors of the Republic? No, they wanted to fight the Jedi. But to what end? To see who were the better warriors? To test themselves? Or for some darker, unknown purpose? I believe both Mandalore and Kreia both say that it wasn't the Republic that was important, but the Jedi, so the Council was right to hold back to try and understand why the Mandalorians wanted to fight the Jedi.

Charging into a conflict without understanding it is a sure way to get in over your head. Which is exactly what happened to Revan.

Suspicion doesn't equal proof. Five question marks in your own paragraph shows that there was no definitive answer. Kreia and Mandalore both consider the Jedi more important than the Republic, but that doesn't absolve the Jedi from their responsibility to the Republic. This idea that contemplating the motive of the aggressor is of the utmost importance falls flat to those who are dying while you contemplate. If someone is standing in front of you punching you in the face do you try to figure out why he is punching you, or do you put your dukes up?

And as for Revan, he didn't get in over his head by 'charging into a conflict.' His decision to act won the war and saved the Republic. However you are right about his decision to charge blindly into the unknown after the conflict had been won.

QUOTE
Iirc the Sith Assassins in KotOR2 were given training based off of Force wounds, letting them draw strength from their enemies. This likely played a sizable role in their success. The balance in the Force argument, to my mind, tends to be rather weak. They've got a Sith Lord running around with the capability to destroy entire planets, and I believe it's uncertain how much the Jedi knew about Nihlus at the time. But, as dangerous as Nihlus was, The Exile probably had even greater potential because of her forging connections that so unnerved the Masters. If we assume that they knew even a little about how Revan was turning Jedi during the Jedi Civil War(his process involved Wounds in the Force) then The Exile might have been able to turn anyone, anywhere, at any time.

Thanks for the reminder about the Sith Assassins. It's been so long since I played that I completely forgot about them.embarrased.gif

Let us assume for the sake of this discussion that the Jedi know enough of the nature of force bonds and wounds in the force that they are able to justify their decisions regarding their treatment of the Exile. I still believe that punishing a person based on what they may be capable of doing or the potential that they probably have is contrary to the spirit of the Jedi Code. The Jedi are supposed to represent the light side of the force. Discrimination, suspicion, vindictiveness, & censure are all so-called 'dark side' actions and they underscore the hypocrisy which festers within the heart of the Jedi Order.

QUOTE
And it should be noted that The Exile had lived without the Force since Malachor V, so I don't see that it could be considered a fate worse than death to her. I mean, we literally see them regain their connection to the Force in KotOR2.

Yeah, even as I was writing it I knew you'd pick that argument apart! laugh.gif

QUOTE
The only way the Jedi Civil War could have been avoided is if Revan had followed the Council. Because that's the only way he wouldn't have ended up finding the hidden Sith Empire.

Except for the fact that the galaxy would be speaking Mandalorian and, if Kriea and Mandalore are to correct, the Sith Empire would rule them all and would therefore be unavoidable. No, the only way to prevent the events which culminated in the Jedi Civil War would have been for the Jedi to, idk, try to prevent the events that led to the Jedi Civil War.

Remember:
QUOTE
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke


QUOTE(SubRosa @ Dec 2 2015, 05:54 PM) *

This time out I am finding I am liking Bao-Dur best of all the companions. In my previous plays I never really grasped that he is meant to be fight unarmed, and tried giving him weapons and was just disappointed. But this time out I am letting him Kung Fu his way through the game, and he is awesome! Bao-Dur's Charged Armor really helps as well, since he cannot wear pretty much every suit of armor in the game. Most of all though, I am really warming to his personality and backstory. I can feel Brigantia really drawn to him due to their shared experience of the Mandalorian War. Something neither of them wants to talk about, but at least can see that the other understands all to well. I can feel a powerful - even if unspoken - friendship there.

I liked Bao-Dur too. His shared backstory with the exile made their interactions feel more complex than any other character save Kreia. I actually never used him in a hand-to-hand role, that sounds awesome!

And I don't know why (maybe it's the jawline), but Brigantia looks like a steam punk character to me. salute.gif


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Callidus Thorn
post Dec 4 2015, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 4 2015, 06:49 PM) *

Suspicion doesn't equal proof. Five question marks in your own paragraph shows that there was no definitive answer. Kreia and Mandalore both consider the Jedi more important than the Republic, but that doesn't absolve the Jedi from their responsibility to the Republic. This idea that contemplating the motive of the aggressor is of the utmost importance falls flat to those who are dying while you contemplate. If someone is standing in front of you punching you in the face do you try to figure out why he is punching you, or do you put your dukes up?

And as for Revan, he didn't get in over his head by 'charging into a conflict.' His decision to act won the war and saved the Republic. However you are right about his decision to charge blindly into the unknown after the conflict had been won.


There was no definitive answer to why they were doing it, but it doesn't change the fact that the Mandalorians were trying to draw the Jedi into a direct confrontation. And if you're acting as an enemy dictates in a war, then you're already losing it. If something behind the war wanted the Jedi weakened, or corrupted by war(even Revan was concerned about this), then ignoring that threat could lead to even greater loss of life.

And the underlined doesn't apply. The Republic was being attacked, but to goad the Jedi. If someone's trying to goad you into fighting them, you'd be an idiot not to try to figure out why, because it's a safe bet it'd be a bad move to fall for it.

As for Revan winning the war and saving the Republic, you don't think the fact that he then returned to wage war on it, and very nearly succeeded, undermines that claim? You don't think that, ultimately, that makes what he did the wrong decision?

It's already been established in this thread that there's a difference between a Jedi and an emotionally healthy person. There's also a difference between a good Jedi and a good person. Acting as he did may have made Revan a good person, but it made him a bad Jedi, to the cost of the Republic.

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 4 2015, 06:49 PM) *

QUOTE
Iirc the Sith Assassins in KotOR2 were given training based off of Force wounds, letting them draw strength from their enemies. This likely played a sizable role in their success. The balance in the Force argument, to my mind, tends to be rather weak. They've got a Sith Lord running around with the capability to destroy entire planets, and I believe it's uncertain how much the Jedi knew about Nihlus at the time. But, as dangerous as Nihlus was, The Exile probably had even greater potential because of her forging connections that so unnerved the Masters. If we assume that they knew even a little about how Revan was turning Jedi during the Jedi Civil War(his process involved Wounds in the Force) then The Exile might have been able to turn anyone, anywhere, at any time.

Thanks for the reminder about the Sith Assassins. It's been so long since I played that I completely forgot about them.embarrased.gif

Let us assume for the sake of this discussion that the Jedi know enough of the nature of force bonds and wounds in the force that they are able to justify their decisions regarding their treatment of the Exile. I still believe that punishing a person based on what they may be capable of doing or the potential that they probably have is contrary to the spirit of the Jedi Code. The Jedi are supposed to represent the light side of the force. Discrimination, suspicion, vindictiveness, & censure are all so-called 'dark side' actions and they underscore the hypocrisy which festers within the heart of the Jedi Order.


To be honest, I had only a vague recollection of the connection, and had to resort to Wookiepedia for the details.

Do you really believe her exile was unmerited? She defied the Council in going to war with Revan, destroyed an entire planet, and came back to them, not a Jedi, but a walking Wound in the Force that could no longer feel the Force. According to the book Revan both she and Revan were considered war criminals because of Malachor V by the Jedi, though what the rest of the Republic thought isn't mentioned. What place did she have in the Order, having turned her back on it, and in that condition? Was she made an example of? Perhaps. IN Revan Atris says she was, but as we know from KotOR2, she wasn't exactly the best person to ask. If it was mentioned in game or not, I can't remember.

Regarding the attempt to strip her of the Force, they knew that this was no great ordeal for her, it was something she had already endured with no great hardship. Even Kreia remarks on how exceptional that is. As for why? She was possessed of two powers that the Council could not begin to control, as she would ignore them is she wished to. She had already demonstrated a willingness to use unthinkable force, and was actively growing stronger, making her different from any other Wound in the Force. It's doubtful the shattered remnants of the Jedi Order could have stopped her, should that Wound in the Force corrupt her, so how else could they protect those around her? They could not trust her after what she had done, and that was something she had brought upon herself.

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 4 2015, 06:49 PM) *

Except for the fact that the galaxy would be speaking Mandalorian and, if Kriea and Mandalore are to correct, the Sith Empire would rule them all and would therefore be unavoidable. No, the only way to prevent the events which culminated in the Jedi Civil War would have been for the Jedi to, idk, try to prevent the events that led to the Jedi Civil War.


Firstly, at no point is it made clear what the Jedi Council was doing during before Revan acted. So there's no basis to assume they were not, and would not, act against the Mandalorians. We can talk to them about the Mandalorian Wars as the Exile, but they've no obligation to answer. So the "galaxy would be speaking Mandalorian" part is completely unsupported.

The Jedi were trying to prevent something of that nature, firstly by trying to understand the reasons behind the war, and secondly by trying to understand the effects going to war would have on the Jedi. Both of these were undermined by Revan going to war. You've confused not acting before they're ready with not acting at all, because after Revan joined the war they would not follow him. This is no basis for an assumption of what they would have done had Revan not done so.

And what do you mean by "the hypocrisy which festers within the heart of the Jedi Order."? Because what comes before it makes it seem like you believe the Jedi should offer complete and unconditional forgiveness in all cases.

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 4 2015, 06:49 PM) *

Remember:
QUOTE

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke


Remember:

Revan acting on that principle led to him becoming a Sith Lord, and waging a second, greater war on the Republic. And it was only thanks to the Jedi who followed the Jedi Council and did not go to war, that Revan didn't destroy the Republic, and build his own Sith empire.

Acting irresponsibly is worse than not acting at all, as Revan's fall so aptly demonstrates.


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Callidus Thorn
post Dec 4 2015, 11:41 PM
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Sorry to double post, but since this is about the game itself rather than everything around it, it didn't really seem right to tack it on the end.

So, installed KotOR, and it runs without any apparent problems. I've decided not to go widescreen with it, partly because my laptop's pretty damn mediocre.

So I rolled up a Scout, named Saron Star, because it came up on the random name and I rather liked the sound of it. He's gone straight for two weapon fighting, but ditched blasters early on in favour of melee weapons, and he's now running around Taris with an Echani Ritual Brand. Makes me wish I'd reversed his strength and dexterity(12&14 respectively), but, no matter.

Haven't quite gotten back into it properly, but thus far the nostalgia is strong with this one laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: Dec 4 2015, 11:46 PM


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Destri Melarg
post Dec 5 2015, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE
There was no definitive answer to why they were doing it, but it doesn't change the fact that the Mandalorians were trying to draw the Jedi into a direct confrontation. And if you're acting as an enemy dictates in a war, then you're already losing it. If something behind the war wanted the Jedi weakened, or corrupted by war(even Revan was concerned about this), then ignoring that threat could lead to even greater loss of life.

And the underlined doesn't apply. The Republic was being attacked, but to goad the Jedi. If someone's trying to goad you into fighting them, you'd be an idiot not to try to figure out why, because it's a safe bet it'd be a bad move to fall for it.

I don't disagree with the fact that the Mandalorians were trying to goad the Jedi. Somebody along the way says as much in one of the games I'm sure. What bothers me is that the Jedi had no idea why they were being goaded at the outset of the war. To their minds the reason might have been as simple as the Mandalorian need to test themselves in battle as you've already brought up. Then they allowed fear (another dark side emotion) to render them impotent when faced with the loss of billions that they were sworn to protect.

'If something behind the war…', and 'could lead to an even greater loss of life' presupposes something they have no knowledge of. It is speculation used to mask cowardice on the part of the Jedi.

QUOTE
As for Revan winning the war and saving the Republic, you don't think the fact that he then returned to wage war on it, and very nearly succeeded, undermines that claim? You don't think that, ultimately, that makes what he did the wrong decision?

No I don't, and I'll explain why:

You're taking for granted that Revan's return was tied to his victory. I see them as two separate events. Revan's decision to follow the remnants of the Mandalorian fleet into unknown space had no bearing on his decision to join the war in the first place… and vice versa. Was Revan's decision to chase the Mandalorians the right one? Of course not for all the reasons you have so ably stated. Was his decision to join the war in the first place the right one? Absolutely because, as the game states, he won the war and saved the Republic.

I wonder: If Revan had not chased the Mandalorians after Malachor V, if he had instead returned to the Jedi Council would they have had the stones to exile him for disobeying them? I seriously doubt it. Not with the whole of the Republic watching. So if I can say that, then I have to consider the two as separate events.

QUOTE
Do you really believe her exile was unmerited? She defied the Council in going to war with Revan, destroyed an entire planet, and came back to them, not a Jedi, but a walking Wound in the Force that could no longer feel the Force. According to the book Revan both she and Revan were considered war criminals because of Malachor V by the Jedi, though what the rest of the Republic thought isn't mentioned. What place did she have in the Order, having turned her back on it, and in that condition? Was she made an example of? Perhaps. IN Revan Atris says she was, but as we know from KotOR2, she wasn't exactly the best person to ask. If it was mentioned in game or not, I can't remember.



QUOTE
And what do you mean by "the hypocrisy which festers within the heart of the Jedi Order."? Because what comes before it makes it seem like you believe the Jedi should offer complete and unconditional forgiveness in all cases.

I'll address both of these points together. I believe it is unmerited for the Council to exile any Jedi who has not fallen to the dark side. As Obi-Wan said: 'Only Sith deal in absolutes.' As for the hypocrisy, well, the Jedi Code is supposedly very clear... yet:

There is no emotion, there is peace - But fear seems to constantly govern their actions. Fear of his own death precipitated the fall of Exar Kun. Fear of the unknown kept the Jedi out of the Mandalorian War, and caused them to exile a Jedi they should have tried to understand. And fear of personal loss causes Anakin Skywalker to fall.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge - but, when faced with an unknown, they turtle and hide. Master Zez-Kai Ell felt that the Council was wrong in punishing the Exile but, in typical Jedi fashion, he chose to follow the herd rather than make his feelings known.
There is no passion, there is serenity - but Atris was among those who pushed for the Exile's execution…
and on and on.

QUOTE
Regarding the attempt to strip her of the Force, they knew that this was no great ordeal for her, it was something she had already endured with no great hardship. Even Kreia remarks on how exceptional that is. As for why? She was possessed of two powers that the Council could not begin to control, as she would ignore them is she wished to. She had already demonstrated a willingness to use unthinkable force, and was actively growing stronger, making her different from any other Wound in the Force. It's doubtful the shattered remnants of the Jedi Order could have stopped her, should that Wound in the Force corrupt her, so how else could they protect those around her? They could not trust her after what she had done, and that was something she had brought upon herself.

A fair point, especially if you choose to play dark side. However, canonically the Exile is considered light side. She was the only one to resist the lure of the dark side. Even the Council was not of one mind on the subject (little wonder then that we aren't). Master Vash and Master Zez-Kai Ell consider her the perfect opportunity to examine why so many fall to the dark side, yet their voices are drowned out by fear and paranoia.

QUOTE
The Jedi were trying to prevent something of that nature, firstly by trying to understand the reasons behind the war, and secondly by trying to understand the effects going to war would have on the Jedi. Both of these were undermined by Revan going to war. You've confused not acting before they're ready with not acting at all, because after Revan joined the war they would not follow him. This is no basis for an assumption of what they would have done had Revan not done so.

So you're saying that the Jedi were just getting their ducks in a row? How exactly was all that understanding going for them? By the end of the war (which, again, Revan succeeded in winning) did they have a clearer understanding of the threat they faced? Even with Jedi in active participation which, ostensibly, was the Mandalorians goal all along we saw no indication of this so-called 'greater threat.' The Jedi let all those people die needlessly so that they could succeed in learning absolutely nothing. Then they turned their backs on their own which led the heroic Jedi who did act when the Republic was in need down a path which led to the dark side. Revan isn't responsible for the Jedi Civil War… the Jedi Council is.


QUOTE
Revan acting on that principle led to him becoming a Sith Lord, and waging a second, greater war on the Republic. And it was only thanks to the Jedi who followed the Jedi Council and did not go to war, that Revan didn't destroy the Republic, and build his own Sith empire.

Acting irresponsibly is worse than not acting at all, as Revan's fall so aptly demonstrates.

Another way to look at it is that Revan acting on that principle saved the Republic and defeated the Mandalorians. The Jedi ignoring that principle led Revan to go off without guidance into unknown space where he fell to the dark side.

This post has been edited by Destri Melarg: Dec 5 2015, 10:42 AM


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mALX
post Dec 5 2015, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Dec 2 2015, 08:54 PM) *

I think I may have found a way to work around the bug of my characters ignoring their orders and blindly charging in and attacking the start of every fight. It seems that if I unpause the game for about a second, then pause again, I can issue orders that they will actually follow, such as throw grenades or use force powers.

I also finally settled into my Jedi Guardian Brigantia, and plan to finish the entire game with her. She just got her lightsaber, and wow, I have never had a Kotor character who could rack ass like her. She is throwing out 100 points of damage and change every round.

Darth Gillette

Visas - proof the Dark Side has lip gloss!

Our heroine

A hammerhead ship

Brigantia and her boys

Bao-Dur doing acrobatics

This time out I am finding I am liking Bao-Dur best of all the companions. In my previous plays I never really grasped that he is meant to be fight unarmed, and tried giving him weapons and was just disappointed. But this time out I am letting him Kung Fu his way through the game, and he is awesome! Bao-Dur's Charged Armor really helps as well, since he cannot wear pretty much every suit of armor in the game. Most of all though, I am really warming to his personality and backstory. I can feel Brigantia really drawn to him due to their shared experience of the Mandalorian War. Something neither of them wants to talk about, but at least can see that the other understands all too well. I can feel a powerful - even if unspoken - friendship there.






OH! Your new character is Brigantia! I thought it was Visas, oops!

That is so odd you need to pause it to get them to obey the commands, I wonder why? Is your team essential? I mean, when they charge in, do you have to worry about losing a member of your team?

I got a kick out of the "hammerhead ship," and it does kind of remind me of a hammerhead shark laugh.gif

The combat looks to be a little closer in on this game, I like that a lot better (for my eyesight too, lol).

That is funny about the one character "Kung Fu-ing" his way through the game, laugh.gif But very cool about the back story and sensation of closeness with that character - I really like when that happens in a game. I kind of got a little sense of that with Martin when you first brought him to Cloud Ruler Temple and he felt completely out of his element and kind of clung to the player as the only friend he had for a time. Really like when games can effect an actually feeling in a player.

Great shots!





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Destri Melarg
post Dec 5 2015, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 5 2015, 07:07 AM) *

That is funny about the one character "Kung Fu-ing" his way through the game, laugh.gif But very cool about the back story and sensation of closeness with that character - I really like when that happens in a game. I kind of got a little sense of that with Martin when you first brought him to Cloud Ruler Temple and he felt completely out of his element and kind of clung to the player as the only friend he had for a time. Really like when games can effect an actually feeling in a player.

Great shots!

That is a consistent feature in Bioware's games that I would like to see Bethesda incorporate more. Even when the game itself is flawed (I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3) you are still able to enjoy the bond that you have forged with your crew over the course of 100+ hrs. Bethesda's followers feel tacked on by comparison. Fallout 4 is a (baby) step in the right direction. Followers now seem to have at least a bit of an existence independent of their meeting with the player, but IMHO they still haven't gone far enough.

And don't even get me started on the so-called 'romance' options. rolleyes.gif


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mALX
post Dec 5 2015, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 5 2015, 12:31 PM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 5 2015, 07:07 AM) *

That is funny about the one character "Kung Fu-ing" his way through the game, laugh.gif But very cool about the back story and sensation of closeness with that character - I really like when that happens in a game. I kind of got a little sense of that with Martin when you first brought him to Cloud Ruler Temple and he felt completely out of his element and kind of clung to the player as the only friend he had for a time. Really like when games can effect an actually feeling in a player.

Great shots!

That is a consistent feature in Bioware's games that I would like to see Bethesda incorporate more. Even when the game itself is flawed (I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3) you are still able to enjoy the bond that you have forged with your crew over the course of 100+ hrs. Bethesda's followers feel tacked on by comparison. Fallout 4 is a (baby) step in the right direction. Followers now seem to have at least a bit of an existence independent of their meeting with the player, but IMHO they still haven't gone far enough.

And don't even get me started on the so-called 'romance' options. rolleyes.gif



*mALX nods head in agreement at the eye-rolling version of "Romance" Bethesda injects into the game*

"So, I see you have the necklace of Mara on. If you like me, we can get married! I'll sleep fully clothed in either your bed or your housecarl's bed; cook a meal that looks like a dried up pizza when asked; and give you money if you'll marry me. But don't expect my personality to change, though i will call you "honey" and "dear" ... etc. "

At least in Fallout: New Vegas you got to hear Fisto's whirring gizmos in the darkened background; along with his sexy banter, rollinglaugh.gif






This post has been edited by mALX: Dec 5 2015, 06:42 PM


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Destri Melarg
post Dec 5 2015, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 5 2015, 09:41 AM) *

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 5 2015, 12:31 PM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 5 2015, 07:07 AM) *

That is funny about the one character "Kung Fu-ing" his way through the game, laugh.gif But very cool about the back story and sensation of closeness with that character - I really like when that happens in a game. I kind of got a little sense of that with Martin when you first brought him to Cloud Ruler Temple and he felt completely out of his element and kind of clung to the player as the only friend he had for a time. Really like when games can effect an actually feeling in a player.

Great shots!

That is a consistent feature in Bioware's games that I would like to see Bethesda incorporate more. Even when the game itself is flawed (I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3) you are still able to enjoy the bond that you have forged with your crew over the course of 100+ hrs. Bethesda's followers feel tacked on by comparison. Fallout 4 is a (baby) step in the right direction. Followers now seem to have at least a bit of an existence independent of their meeting with the player, but IMHO they still haven't gone far enough.

And don't even get me started on the so-called 'romance' options. rolleyes.gif



*mALX nods head in agreement at the eye-rolling version of "Romance" Bethesda injects into the game*

"So, I see you have the necklace of Mara on. If you like me, we can get married! I'll sleep fully clothed in either your bed or your housecarl's bed; cook a meal that looks like a dried up pizza when asked; and give you money if you'll marry me. But don't expect my personality to change, though i will call you "honey" and "dear" ... etc. "

At least in Fallout: New Vegas you got to hear Fisto's whirring gizmos in the darkened background; along with his sexy banter, rollinglaugh.gif

Don't forget that you can be a confirmed Stormcloak and I can be a Dunmer, Argonian, or Khajiit laying waste to the Stormcloak population for the Empire and your dialogue won't even change!

And somehow I still haven't played New Vegas yet. laugh.gif


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mALX
post Dec 5 2015, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 5 2015, 12:56 PM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 5 2015, 09:41 AM) *

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 5 2015, 12:31 PM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 5 2015, 07:07 AM) *

That is funny about the one character "Kung Fu-ing" his way through the game, laugh.gif But very cool about the back story and sensation of closeness with that character - I really like when that happens in a game. I kind of got a little sense of that with Martin when you first brought him to Cloud Ruler Temple and he felt completely out of his element and kind of clung to the player as the only friend he had for a time. Really like when games can effect an actually feeling in a player.

Great shots!

That is a consistent feature in Bioware's games that I would like to see Bethesda incorporate more. Even when the game itself is flawed (I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3) you are still able to enjoy the bond that you have forged with your crew over the course of 100+ hrs. Bethesda's followers feel tacked on by comparison. Fallout 4 is a (baby) step in the right direction. Followers now seem to have at least a bit of an existence independent of their meeting with the player, but IMHO they still haven't gone far enough.

And don't even get me started on the so-called 'romance' options. rolleyes.gif



*mALX nods head in agreement at the eye-rolling version of "Romance" Bethesda injects into the game*

"So, I see you have the necklace of Mara on. If you like me, we can get married! I'll sleep fully clothed in either your bed or your housecarl's bed; cook a meal that looks like a dried up pizza when asked; and give you money if you'll marry me. But don't expect my personality to change, though i will call you "honey" and "dear" ... etc. "

At least in Fallout: New Vegas you got to hear Fisto's whirring gizmos in the darkened background; along with his sexy banter, rollinglaugh.gif

Don't forget that you can be a confirmed Stormcloak and I can be a Dunmer, Argonian, or Khajiit laying waste to the Stormcloak population for the Empire and your dialogue won't even change!

And somehow I still haven't played New Vegas yet. laugh.gif



Oh no, didn't you say you were going to try New Vegas? If you do, at least once your character has to "Test" Fisto, laugh.gif





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SubRosa
post Dec 5 2015, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 5 2015, 04:41 AM) *

I don't disagree with the fact that the Mandalorians were trying to goad the Jedi. Somebody along the way says as much in one of the games I'm sure.

In Kotor 2 Bao Dur calls Mandalor a murderer, for the Mandalorian practice of slaughtering millions of innocent people - like on Cathar. Mandalore says it was the only way to get the Jedi's attention. He goes on to explain that they knew very little of the Jedi themselves. Their only contact being with those like Exar Kun who had already gone to the Dark Side. He says they wanted to test themselves against the Jedi. To see who was stronger. For them, attacking the Jedi Order was the meat and potatoes of the Mandalorian Crusade. Conquering worlds was just gravy on top.

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Dec 5 2015, 04:41 AM) *

The Jedi ignoring that principle led Revan to go off without guidance into unknown space where he fell to the dark side.

My thought has always been that if the Jedi Council had led the Mandalorian Wars not only would they have ended sooner, but if anyone had gone off beyond known space to explore it would not have been Revan. Instead it would have been members of the Council. I don't really know a lot about the actual ability of the Council in Revan's time. But I can easily picture how things would have went if it had been Master Yoda and Master Windu:

"A hidden Sith Empire, found have we," Yoda says.

"Reach in that bag and hand me my lightsaber," Mace Windu growls, eyes fixed upon the Sith Emperor before them. "It's the one that says Bad*** Mother****!"

Purple lightsaber blade sticks through Sith Emperor's head. End of story.



QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 5 2015, 10:07 AM) *

OH! Your new character is Brigantia! I thought it was Visas, oops!

That is so odd you need to pause it to get them to obey the commands, I wonder why? Is your team essential? I mean, when they charge in, do you have to worry about losing a member of your team?

I got a kick out of the "hammerhead ship," and it does kind of remind me of a hammerhead shark laugh.gif

The combat looks to be a little closer in on this game, I like that a lot better (for my eyesight too, lol).

That is funny about the one character "Kung Fu-ing" his way through the game, laugh.gif But very cool about the back story and sensation of closeness with that character - I really like when that happens in a game. I kind of got a little sense of that with Martin when you first brought him to Cloud Ruler Temple and he felt completely out of his element and kind of clung to the player as the only friend he had for a time. Really like when games can effect an actually feeling in a player.

Great shots!

There is something weird going on with the controls in Kotor 2. Characters often ignore their orders, or just stand there doing nothing. It gets really infuriating at times. I do not recall that ever happening in Kotor 1.

At first that weird ship made me think of a hammer, or a big mallet. Or the handle of a corkscrew. It is a weird design.

I really love how you can connect with a character in a game like with Martin, or the way I finally have with Bao-Dur. It makes the game world come alive, and your own character as well. Otherwise you are just killing things and not roleplaying.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Dec 5 2015, 09:15 PM


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mALX
post Dec 5 2015, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Dec 5 2015, 01:11 PM) *

I really love how you can connect with a character in a game like with Martin, or the way I finally have with Bao-Dur. It makes the game world come alive, and your own character as well. Otherwise you are just killing things and not roleplaying.


Me too. I never had it happen in any game till I played Oblivion, and there were several characters in Oblivion that seemed to draw the player into a deeper friendship - like the Knights of the Nine ghosts. After they returned to their graves, I missed them! I used to activate their tombs just to hear them talking to my character again.



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Callidus Thorn
post Dec 5 2015, 08:20 PM
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Edit:

You know what? Forget it. This discussion will just keep going otherwise, and will never get anywhere.

Oh, and in the interest of accuracy, Revan didn't follow the Mandalorians into the unknown regions. At Malachor V Revan fought Mandalore the Ultimate in single combat. As he was dying, Mandalore told Revan that the Sith had tricked him into attacking the Republic. Revan followed that lead, looking for the Sith.

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: Dec 5 2015, 11:32 PM


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SubRosa
post Dec 7 2015, 12:00 AM
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Mandalore is now part of Brigantia's team

A big brawl. The white rings are shots from sonic guns. The glowing white particles behind Brigantia are the aftermath of her Force Jump, which instantly propelled her across the battlefield just a second before.

The team hatches plans in the Ebon Hawk


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ghastley
post Dec 7 2015, 12:28 AM
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So there are white rings, white particles, and it looks like white light-sabers all going on at once. Is that all from the same side? Don't the others get a turn?


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SubRosa
post Dec 7 2015, 01:09 AM
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The white rings are from the other side! laugh.gif And they have a red blaster bolt.


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post Dec 7 2015, 01:25 AM
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Good for Brigantia. Finally got herself a dude with some armor. tongue.gif Oh how neat that she's learned Whirlwind Sprint Force Jump! Cool ship, cool bridge - so should make for some cool plans. smile.gif


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post Dec 8 2015, 02:58 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Dec 6 2015, 06:00 PM) *



Ooh, out and about in a town? Is there loot in the crates like those in the background of the Mandalore screen? And, is Mandalore the one kneeling?

Oh, that about to start combat screen is Awesome! Those spells that vault the enemy into my face always scare the heck out of me when it happens (when the enemy does it to me); so it really must be a great benefit for the Player in battle! It looks cool as heck, so does the sonic gun rings.

ESO has that "Force Leap" spell, but so far I've avoided taking it because I've been trying to fight ranged whenever possible - but it is a very effective move, doesn't give the enemy time to get a shot in on you before you are in his face, lol.

Which makes me wonder = do you have to repair your armor/weapons in this game?


The dialogue in the planning room at Ebon Hawk had me in hysterics!


These screens above any so far have made me want to play this game, lol. I like the idea of being able to get out and explore around like that.

Great shots!!!




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post Dec 9 2015, 01:50 AM
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Acadian: I love the Mandalorian Armor. I wish there was a game that allowed you to play as a Mandalorian, just for the cool outfits! laugh.gif


mALX: It took me a long time to come to think of those ships as Hammerheads. The entire first time I played it years ago I never even made that leap at all. I just thought they were Screwdriver Ships back then. It was just a few weeks ago I imagined one sideways, and realized would look just like a hammerhead shark.

Mandalore is the one in the cool armor. He's the leader of the Mandalorians. It's from a mod, that changes the armor of the Mandalorians in the game to the same style as worn by Jango and Boba Fett in the Star Wars movies. I think that looks much better than the vanilla Mandalorian armor from the game.

The Force Leap is really cool in the Kotor games. It almost instantly puts you across the map, and looks really cool for that split second it takes to get there. Your character actually does a flip in mid-air as they leap.

There is no armor or weapon repair in these games. There are some options to upgrade your gear with improvements. The system is pretty basic in Kotor 1, and gets really fleshed out in Kotor 2 - with tons more new options.

The Kotor games are fun. But they are not open worlds like a Bethesda game. There are only a certain number of places you can visit, and you have to visit them and advance the game's plot in them. The only real freedom is that you can choose the order in which you do some of them, and which side quests you want to do, and how you do them (there is a basic good/evil choice to most of the quests).


Mandalorian Super-commandos board The Ravager

Another pic of Mandalore

Visas and Brigantia in action

Double whammy

More lightsaber action


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