Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V « < 2 3 4  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The Ultimate TES game, What would you like to see Bethesda do?
Acadian
post Apr 8 2015, 06:10 PM
Post #61


Paladin
Group Icon
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Las Vegas



As far as skill management goes, I'm delighted with a little mod that I use. At the beginning of the game, you choose a cap level for all of your skills. The skills will then level up only to that cap and never beyond. For example, Buffy's caps are:
Archery and Sneak - 100
Illusion, Conjuration, Alteration and Speechcraft - 75
Every single other skill is perma-capped at 15. Even if she reads a skill book on heavy armor or gets free skill training as 'reward' for some silly quest, the knowledge does not translate to any improvement of skill beyond its cap. Simply looking at those skill caps gives one a pretty good idea her strengths and limitations.

This does, for better or worse, also limit Buffy's ultimate maximum character level as well (to about the mid-30s in her case). I have no problem at all with that because there is nothing beyond about level 20 that we want - and that is only to ensure we have pretty snow bears in our game.

Plenty of mod solutions out there for PC users. I admit that, without mods, I would not enjoy TES games. The real challenge is that if you put 10 players together, you'll get 10 differing visions of how things should work. So I'm glad I'm not a game developer, and think the smartest thing they can do is make sure and offer their tool kit (CS / CK) to the fan community.

I think most folks can agree that they don't like being forced to try and jam their creative round peg concept for a character into a square hole. And I think most folks could agree that doing a quest because you want to is good, but being overly pushed into an unwanted role as The Chosen One as viewed by the devs is not so good. Similarly, if you join a faction the option to rise to the top is fine as long as the option to simply remain a 'working' mid-level member of that faction is also supported by appropriate quests.


--------------------
Screenshot for September: Shoot straight and ride a fast horse.
Stop by our sub forum!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SubRosa
post Apr 8 2015, 06:20 PM
Post #62


Councilor
Group Icon
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds



QUOTE(Acadian @ Apr 8 2015, 01:10 PM) *

The real challenge is that if you put 10 players together, you'll get 10 differing visions of how things should work. So I'm glad I'm not a game developer, and think the smartest thing they can do is make sure and offer their tool kit (CS / CK) to the fan community.

The smartest thing to do is make it the way I want it! laugh.gif


--------------------
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Destri Melarg
post Apr 8 2015, 08:21 PM
Post #63


Mouth
Group Icon
Joined: 16-March 10
From: Rihad, Hammerfell



QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 8 2015, 09:48 AM) *

The trouble there is that every member of each race is an exact duplicate. Apparently there are factories out there rolling out elves, humans, orcs, etc..., since we all start out with the factory-standard model. That would explain why the children all look the same... I find it very un-i... (sorry Renee, but here comes the 'I' word) immersive.

And I can understand that point of view. The point I'm making is that, if the opposite were true and we went back to fixed attribute starting points for the various races, then we would inevitably find ourselves in a situation where developers give us elves that are physically weak and orcs that are mentally inferior. That, to me, is far more limiting than just starting me with a blank slate that I can then develop the way I see fit. I'm okay with it taking me 5+ hours to get the character I'm going to enjoy for the next 150+.

QUOTE
But more than that, the bonuses they give the races rarely match up with who my character is at the start of the game. The characters I create are people, with their own personalities, histories, and stories. Not toons I roll to beat the game with (Ph3R M3 n00Bs!). Because of that I could work past the inability to customize my stats at the start of the game. I play a person, not a bunch of statistics. However, it makes it difficult to do that working past, precisely because what my character can or cannot do from the very first moment in the game does not match who that character is in my head.

I think we're actually in agreement here. I've still never even finished the main quest of any Bethesda game (going all the way back Morrowind, and that includes Fallout 3). My characters start with a personality, not with a pre-formed skill set. You are arguing that your characters are 'people, not a bunch of statistics' while being put off because you can't start with the statistics you want. My characters discover who they are throughout the course of their adventure, that's a big part of the fun for me… and all I'm saying is that I don't mind starting my character off as a blank slate if that means that I don't have to be burdened with the ideas of that 'guy sitting in the DC suburbs.'

QUOTE
For example, one of my earlier characters was Hera, who was an Altmer barbarian…

… I shouldn't have to wait until 5 hours into the game to be able to play the character the way I envisioned them being at the start of the game.

So it sounds like what you're really put off by is the fact that Hera couldn't steam roll the earlier levels the way you wanted. wink.gif

Think about it… your Altmer barbarian was still able to use two handed weapons (which in a number of so-called rpgs would have been impossible because you had the effrontery to pick a high elf... and everyone knows high elves are just mages), she just had a not-too-steep learning curve to negotiate at a time in the game when enemies are easy anyway. You were also able to fit her into the fur armor you wanted (again, impossible in most so-called rpgs). As you've stated you could just ignore her apprentice level skill in Illusion… or you could just incorporate that into your role play by using courage spells to simulate her leadership qualities. All of that came with the vanilla game us console players use which, being on the PC where you can just change things to the way you want anyway, doesn't apply to you.

I have always sought out and respected your opinion, 'Rosa. But, in this case/thread, I think we're all getting upset about the wrong things in Skyrim. Personally, I don't care if they continue to streamline the mechanics. What I care about is that they continue to streamline the story-telling! Give me an epic and engaging MQ (hopefully one I'm not forced into), and interesting side quests & faction quest lines. Make the effects of these quest impact the world beyond whether or not a tree grows in Whiterun. Give me a world filled with 3 dimensional characters and relationships that feel real and not contrived. Do that and you can take away all the attributes and impose as much homogeneity in character creation that you want!

QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 8 2015, 10:20 AM) *

QUOTE(Acadian @ Apr 8 2015, 01:10 PM) *

The real challenge is that if you put 10 players together, you'll get 10 differing visions of how things should work. So I'm glad I'm not a game developer, and think the smartest thing they can do is make sure and offer their tool kit (CS / CK) to the fan community.

The smartest thing to do is make it the way I want it! laugh.gif

I'd buy it… as long as it had a tool kit! laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Destri Melarg: Apr 8 2015, 08:39 PM


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SubRosa
post Apr 8 2015, 08:51 PM
Post #64


Councilor
Group Icon
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds



QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 03:21 PM) *

So it sounds like what you're really put off by is the fact that Hera couldn't steam roll the earlier levels the way you wanted. wink.gif

Not steamroll. I don't expect that until the later part of the game. I just want to possess the basic competency of a person who has been using the weapon/skill since childhood. Along with the basic incompetency in other things they have not been using.

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 03:21 PM) *

Think about it… your Altmer barbarian was still able to use two handed weapons (which in a number of so-called rpgs would have been impossible because you had the effrontery to pick a high elf... and everyone knows high elves are just mages), she just had a not-too-steep learning curve to negotiate at a time in the game when enemies are easy anyway. You were also able to fit her into the fur armor you wanted (again, impossible in most so-called rpgs). As you've stated you could just ignore her apprentice level skill in Illusion… or you could just incorporate that into your role play by using courage spells to simulate her leadership qualities. All of that came with the vanilla game us console players use which, being on the PC where you can just change things to the way you want anyway, doesn't apply to you.

My elf characters in all the other RPGs I have played - like the Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate games - could start out as muscle-bound barbarians who were good with a sword and clueless about magic as well. So I am not sure what other RPGs you mean?

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 8 2015, 08:52 PM


--------------------
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Destri Melarg
post Apr 8 2015, 09:45 PM
Post #65


Mouth
Group Icon
Joined: 16-March 10
From: Rihad, Hammerfell



QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 8 2015, 12:51 PM) *

Not steamroll. I don't expect that until the later part of the game. I just want to possess the basic competency of a person who has been using the weapon/skill since childhood. Along with the basic incompetency in other things they have not been using.

Fair enough. Ten points give or take at level 1 is still not immersion breaking for me... but I can respect that it is for you.

QUOTE
My elf characters in all the other RPGs I have played - like the Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate games - could start out as muscle-bound barbarians who were good with a sword and clueless about magic as well. So I am not sure what other RPGs you mean?

Okay well, since you brought up Bioware, how about KOTOR. If I recall you yourself used it as an example when you said you hated the fact that your Jedi couldn’t be good with a lightsaber and computers unless you chose a Consulor. What about the Mass Effect series? There choice of class limited you in what weapons/armors you could wield/wear. Try to be a dwarf mage in Dragon Age... you can’t. Even if the developers site story reasons as explanation it remains a somewhat arbitrary imposed limitation.

Being on the console I am at an admitted disadvantage when it comes to good RPGs. You obviously have more experience with the subject. I, for example, have played Balder’s Gate but not Neverwinter Nights. I’ve also never played a good pen and paper RPG so anyone who has is bringing to the subject more experience than I. I am simply saying that, on console at least, the Elder Scrolls still gives us more freedom than just about anyone else. I should have framed the argument in those terms initially, sorry for the confusion.


Edit: Look, every opinion expressed so far in this thread has been passionate, heart-felt, and well thought out. All of them are defensable and none of them come across as ‘wrong’ to me. What I’m saying is that none of them get to the heart of why we feel the way we do about the current trend in the Elder Scrolls series. We were all able to suspend our disbelief and fall in love with this series when the battle system was, quite frankly, trash. We did so because the stories we were able to tell within this world were so good.

Immersion doesn’t come from attributes or racial specials or any of the other bells and whistles that constitute game mechanics. Immersion comes from a suspension of disbelief inherent in the personal story being told in a living, breathing world where actions have consequence (which, correct me if I'm wrong, is ultimately the point that gpstr was making) . A story of good quality can withstand flaws in the battle system, or the absence of attributes, or even the loss of the freedom to do what you want in the way in which you want to do it. A poor story makes all of these errors stand out in bold relief. Lack of this basic element is why Skyrim, as Winter Wolf so astutely pointed out, feels a hunderd miles wide and one inch deep.

Once again I have succeeded in de-railing your thread, Vital. That's enough out of me. Apologies.

This post has been edited by Destri Melarg: Apr 8 2015, 10:07 PM


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SubRosa
post Apr 8 2015, 10:37 PM
Post #66


Councilor
Group Icon
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds



QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 04:45 PM) *

Okay well, since you brought up Bioware, how about KOTOR. If I recall you yourself used it as an example when you said you hated the fact that your Jedi couldn’t be good with a lightsaber and computers unless you chose a Consulor. What about the Mass Effect series? There choice of class limited you in what weapons/armors you could wield/wear. Try to be a dwarf mage in Dragon Age... you can’t. Even if the developers site story reasons as explanation it remains a somewhat arbitrary imposed limitation.

I agree with all of that. I don't like other people choosing what my class can or cannot do. But I thought we were talking about specific races being prevented from starting the game with certain skills/abilities/equipment? I never had a problem playing an elf and being a Jedi Guardian in KOTOR, or a Soldier in ME. Oh wait, yes I did, because there are no elves in those games! laugh.gif You are quite right about Dwarves being prevented from playing mages in DA though. I was never really thrilled with DA:O. The classes felt claustrophobic, and I didn't like the game world at all, so I haven't felt the desire to try any of the sequels.


QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 04:45 PM) *

Being on the console I am at an admitted disadvantage when it comes to good RPGs. You obviously have more experience with the subject. I, for example, have played Balder’s Gate but not Neverwinter Nights. I’ve also never played a good pen and paper RPG so anyone who has is bringing to the subject more experience than I. I am simply saying that, on console at least, the Elder Scrolls still gives us more freedom than just about anyone else. I should have framed the argument in those terms initially, sorry for the confusion.

In a sense you have played a pen and paper RPG, in the least that the BG games use the 2nd Edition D&D rules underneath the hood. Though it is true that was not the best of RPGs. The Neverwinter Nights games are definitely worth a try. I highly recommend them, especially the first one. They use the 3rd Edition D&D rules, which were a big improvement, as they give your characters a whole lot more they can do. If you liked BG1 more than BG2, then you would probably like NWN1 more, as it more similar in the way the world is laid out, being a very open area you can almost wander at will (though not completely). Where NWN2 is more like BG2 in how you can only go to areas after starting a quest that takes you there. Both games are dirt cheap on Gog.com.


QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 04:45 PM) *

Edit: Look, every opinion expressed so far in this thread has been passionate, heart-felt, and well thought out. All of them are defensable and none of them come across as ‘wrong’ to me. What I’m saying is that none of them get to the heart of why we feel the way we do about the current trend in the Elder Scrolls series. We were all able to suspend our disbelief and fall in love with this series when the battle system was, quite frankly, trash. We did so because the stories we were able to tell within this world were so good.

Immersion doesn’t come from attributes or racial specials or any of the other bells and whistles that constitute game mechanics. Immersion comes from a suspension of disbelief inherent in the personal story being told in a living, breathing world where actions have consequence (which, correct me if I'm wrong, is ultimately the point that gpstr was making) . A story of good quality can withstand flaws in the battle system, or the absence of attributes, or even the loss of the freedom to do what you want in the way in which you want to do it. A poor story makes all of these errors stand out in bold relief. Lack of this basic element is why Skyrim, as Winter Wolf so astutely pointed out, feels a hunderd miles wide and one inch deep.


I agree in the suspension of disbelief. It is just that some things help some people suspend their disbelief, but not others. The story is the only thing that kept me playing Mass Effect 1 until the end. The gameplay itself left me cold. To be honest, I enjoy the sword fights in Skyrim. The addition of bashing adds in a new dimension that the previous ES games lacked. You can play a one or two-handed weapon character and literally never get hit, so long as you time your attacks and bashes and movement right. It turns every battle into a ballet, which I find very fun.

I have never been impressed with the storytelling in the ES franchise. I have always played the games for the open world. In the end I prefer to write my own stories with my characters. I just need a sandbox to play with them in, just like the good old days when I was knee high to a grasshopper. That is why I don't really hate Skyrim, and I am sure I will give ES 6 a try whenever it comes out. Though I think I will wait until they patch the backwards flying dragons in that one. So long as Bethesda gives me a sandox, I'll get my knees dirty in it.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 8 2015, 11:51 PM


--------------------
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Winter Wolf
post Apr 9 2015, 12:37 PM
Post #67


Knower
Group Icon
Joined: 15-March 10
From: Melbourne, Australia



It has been very interesting to read the posts here. I guess the one part of role playing I had never considered is that most other people on this forum like to take time and discover the role their character will play.

That is something I have never done myself, whether on paper and dice games or on the computer. I am fired up from the first moment and always know exactly what type of character I want to play. Sure, things like mannerisms and personality are smoothed around the edges as I go, but that is it.

The basic core and what he/she will achieve is burning bright right from the start.

I am curious though, how do you decide majors/minors if you have no idea what your character will become? Do you just take anything and then fix the character as you go with console command and mods? I have never had to do that as I theme everything around the character, majors, leveling, quests, equipment, you name it.

This post has been edited by Winter Wolf: Apr 9 2015, 12:48 PM


--------------------
Wealth for all- security for none!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
haute ecole rider
post Apr 9 2015, 06:13 PM
Post #68


Master
Group Icon
Joined: 16-March 10
From: The place where the Witchhorses play



For me role-playing is storytelling. I take a character with some basic attributes (such as my female Redguard character, Julian of Anvil). She's weak in magic, but strong in athletics and combat. The story that unfolded as I played her built up her stealth traits, and finally her magicka to the point where she could cast a flame atronach. Can she summon Volanaro's Dremora Lord? Not without some help from the console, so she doesn't use it much. But she has built up her magic skills considerably through the course of her story, to the point where she actually leaves combat behind to take up study at the Mages University.

Alise Sudmeri has done the same in Skyrim. She is a lonely character who is a bit of an outcast, unable to find a place where she feels safe and loved. So she shivers her way through the northern province in search of a home. All the decisions she makes reflects this. How have her attributes grown and changed? I'm not really sure at this point. The only thing I'm sure about is that she loves her adopted children and will do anything for them. They bring out the mother in her that has been repressed for too long.


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gpstr
post Apr 9 2015, 06:58 PM
Post #69


Agent

Joined: 26-March 15



QUOTE(Winter Wolf @ Apr 8 2015, 04:14 AM) *


That is certainly an impressive list. But I fail to see how having classes would ruin that list?
As but one example - Dawn the Breton. She uses magic and a claymore - mostly destruction and illusion magic for ranged attacks and crowd control, and a claymore up close. She has no need for the sort of limitations you insist on since she's already limited by the fact that she's splitting her time and energy between divergent skills. She'll never be as skillful with a sword as Jibran, for instance, who's never done anything but swing a sword, and she'll never be as skillful with magic as Tim, for instance, who never did anything but cast spells. The limits you believe necessary already exist solely as a function of the fact that time is finite and time spent doing one thing is time not spent doing another. And, more to the point, in your demand that some sort of unnecessary restriction be placed on characters, it's quite likely, just because this is "the way it's always been," that you would decree that she, as a "mage," can't use a claymore AT ALL. She'd be arbitrarily required to use a dagger, as if there's some sort of law of Nirnian physics that causes weapons bigger than that to literally leap from the hands of "mages." So she couldn't even exist.

QUOTE
What are you getting so worked up about? I understand your passion for RPG but not why you think that I am forcing anything on you? If I was saying 'you', it would mean, 'you, the player,' not you, gpstr.'
Um... what?

If you say the former, you necessarily mean the latter. That's exactly the problem. If you say that "you, the player" must be compelled to do this and prevented from doing that, then you're not only saying that I must be so restricted, but that every single solitary person who might ever play the game must be so restricted. That's exactly the thing to which I object.

QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Apr 8 2015, 02:45 PM) *

Immersion doesn’t come from attributes or racial specials or any of the other bells and whistles that constitute game mechanics.
Well... actually, to some notable degree, for me, it does.

It's not a coincidence that I've played so many unusual characters - Altmer barbarians, Orc mages, Orc thieves, Breton tanks... I like playing against the grain, and specifically because I like the challenge of working out how to get this Orc to be a powerful mage in spite of the fact that he's less well-equipped to be a powerful mage than the Bretons and Altmer around him. I love the fact that my Altmer barbarian started out fragile and weak - that meant that he had to REALLY want to be a barbarian and had to REALLY work at it to succeed, while a Nord or an Orc could've just effortlessly cruised to the same end. His shortcomings, and his struggles to overcome them, are a huge part of his story and of his personality.

It's a basic rule of storytelling - the way you create an interesting story is to create a character, give him a goal, then put an obstacle in his way. The drama of the story comes from the things that need to be done in order to overcome the obstacle. With no obstacles, it's just a boringly straight path.

Now personally, I have no idea why anyone prefers complete blank slate characters. To me, that just means that there's no reason to even care about picking a race. With racial differences, I get to choose whether I want to play a mage from a race that's predisposed to magic and thus has an advantage and will become extremely powerful or a mage from a race that's not predisposed to magic and thus has to work that much harder to succeed. Without those differences, I get to choose whether my mage is yellow or green. That's it. The former pair of choices goes some considerable way toward defining the character and laying a foundation for his story. The latter pair of choices is ultimately meaningless trivia - there might as well just be one race and a skin tint slider.

I should note at this point that I think a whole lot of the problem (broadly - I make no claims about you personally) isn't really about the game at all - it's that the distinction is made in the context of "race," which triggers a basic gut-level reaction in people. I don't think it actually has anything at all to do with how the concept of racial differences affects the game, but is primarily just a fundamental discomfort with the notion that there might even be any notable differences between "races." And I can't help but wonder if this controversy would even exist if they were referred to as different species instead.

In any case, whether it makes sense to me or not, it's undeniable that that's how some people prefer that "race" define nothing more notable than skin color and ear pointiness. So that means that my ultimate RPG (I can't even say ultimate TES game, because that's so thoroughly inconceivable - Beth WILL NOT make any game even vaguely like that) includes attributes and includes racial/character presets that can be toggled/adjusted to the player's preferences, so those who want diversity and advantages and disadvantages can have them and those who want a broad sea of undifferentiated blank slates can have them. I'm not wholly comfortable with that, just because it would seem to invite balance problems to have to build a world around some potentially relatively broad range of choices there, but that's the best I can do. I think that sort of thing is vital - that fully-fleshed characters can't be defined solely by their skills - that, just like real people, they also have to have talents. Just like real people, they have to have things that they're innately talented or not talented at - things that they'll be able to do easily if they choose, and other things that they'll find difficult to do if they choose. If they have the exact same aptitude for everything as everyone else, then much of the pleasure I find in roleplaying is gone, just like that. That others don't share that pleasure is just something that needs to be worked around - I'm willing to accommodate that.

QUOTE(Winter Wolf @ Apr 9 2015, 05:37 AM) *

I am curious though, how do you decide majors/minors if you have no idea what your character will become? Do you just take anything and then fix the character as you go with console command and mods? I have never had to do that as I theme everything around the character, majors, leveling, quests, equipment, you name it.
For the most part, I use a standard set of general purpose majors that are simply ones that increase slowly enough that I get to spend as much time as possible with the character before s/he becomes overpowered and boring - things like Mercantile and Restoration are ideal, since pretty much everyone uses them, but they increase very slowly.

I have to have some basic idea of what the character's going to do to survive, because some majors, and more significantly, their specialization, are going to depend on that. But it's not necessary to know much - I just need an idea of what type of melee weapons they'll use if any, what type of armor they'll wear if any and what type of spells they'll cast if any. It's only necessary to set things up so that they don't level too quickly but they aren't crippled either - basically, that just requires making sure that their important skills are either non-spec majors or spec minors. Beyond that, it generally works out - some struggle more than others to gain the skills they need, but that just becomes part of their story. And if all else fails - if a build just isn't working out - I use the console to retcon it. I just change their majors around as necessary, then edit their skills and attributes to match. That's pretty rare though - I've done it enough times now that I've got a pretty good feel for assigning majors and specialization so that the character can do anything within a fairly broad range and at least not be crippled and not level up so fast that they're uber after too few hours, and that's pretty much all I require as far as that goes.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Destri Melarg
post Apr 9 2015, 09:54 PM
Post #70


Mouth
Group Icon
Joined: 16-March 10
From: Rihad, Hammerfell



CLICKY

QUOTE(Winter Wolf @ Apr 9 2015, 04:37 AM) *

I am curious though, how do you decide majors/minors if you have no idea what your character will become? Do you just take anything and then fix the character as you go with console command and mods? I have never had to do that as I theme everything around the character, majors, leveling, quests, equipment, you name it.



QUOTE(haute ecole rider @ Apr 9 2015, 10:13 AM) *

For me role-playing is storytelling. I take a character with some basic attributes (such as my female Redguard character, Julian of Anvil). She's weak in magic, but strong in athletics and combat. The story that unfolded as I played her built up her stealth traits, and finally her magicka to the point where she could cast a flame atronach. Can she summon Volanaro's Dremora Lord? Not without some help from the console, so she doesn't use it much. But she has built up her magic skills considerably through the course of her story, to the point where she actually leaves combat behind to take up study at the Mages University.

Alise Sudmeri has done the same in Skyrim. She is a lonely character who is a bit of an outcast, unable to find a place where she feels safe and loved. So she shivers her way through the northern province in search of a home. All the decisions she makes reflects this. How have her attributes grown and changed? I'm not really sure at this point. The only thing I'm sure about is that she loves her adopted children and will do anything for them. They bring out the mother in her that has been repressed for too long.

To piggy back on hautee's point:

Just because I don’t yet know who my character will become doesn’t mean that I don’t know how he/she starts out. Like you I have a very clear image in my head of who my character is to start the game. I just go in knowing that the events of the game are going to change my character in ways that I can’t yet foresee.

The best characters change over the course of time. They take on new skills and discard old ones. Their attitudes evolve (or devolve, as the case may be) based on their experience. Look at the fan fics we all love on this forum. Buffy, Julian, Teresa, Maxical, Athlain, Jerric... they all have changed considerably over the course of their various stories. The character arc is one of the key elements of effective storytelling and, when you get right down to it, isn’t that what ‘role-playing’ is all about?

QUOTE(gpstr @ Apr 9 2015, 10:58 AM) *

Well... actually, to some notable degree, for me, it does.

It's not a coincidence that I've played so many unusual characters - Altmer barbarians, Orc mages, Orc thieves, Breton tanks... I like playing against the grain, and specifically because I like the challenge of working out how to get this Orc to be a powerful mage in spite of the fact that he's less well-equipped to be a powerful mage than the Bretons and Altmer around him. I love the fact that my Altmer barbarian started out fragile and weak - that meant that he had to REALLY want to be a barbarian and had to REALLY work at it to succeed, while a Nord or an Orc could've just effortlessly cruised to the same end. His shortcomings, and his struggles to overcome them, are a huge part of his story and of his personality.

It's a basic rule of storytelling - the way you create an interesting story is to create a character, give him a goal, then put an obstacle in his way. The drama of the story comes from the things that need to be done in order to overcome the obstacle. With no obstacles, it's just a boringly straight path.

Believe me when I say that I know the basic rules of storytelling. And I like to play against type too. I love playing Redguard mages, Orc spies and Bosmer tanks. Nothing in Skyrim (which I assume we’re talking about because it’s the only game that starts you as a blank slate) prevents you from doing this. I find it interesting that you oppose restrictions while simultaneously calling for them. You decided the nature of the obstacles your characters had to overcome. The game was incidental in that decision... in fact, the game is merely the setting for the story you want to tell. If you want your Altmer barbarian to start off weak, then make him/her so. But you have no right to decide that my Altmer barbarian has to start off the same way.

QUOTE
Now personally, I have no idea why anyone prefers complete blank slate characters. To me, that just means that there's no reason to even care about picking a race. With racial differences, I get to choose whether I want to play a mage from a race that's predisposed to magic and thus has an advantage and will become extremely powerful or a mage from a race that's not predisposed to magic and thus has to work that much harder to succeed. Without those differences, I get to choose whether my mage is yellow or green. That's it. The former pair of choices goes some considerable way toward defining the character and laying a foundation for his story. The latter pair of choices is ultimately meaningless trivia - there might as well just be one race and a skin tint slider.

And see I come at it from the exact opposite point of view. Every character starts as a blank slate, regardless of what starting skills or attributes the game determines you possess. Nothing that makes your character special or unique comes from within those starting attributes. Remember, all the values for those skills and attributes are going to change based on where you decide to take the character. I personally don’t need the game to determine something for me that I am comfortable determining for myself. I still come into the game knowing that Altmer are considered the best mages, Bosmer the best archers, and so forth. None of the racial norms/stereotypes have changed. My choice of race is still made acknowledging those differences, but I like being in control of determining for myself how successful/unsuccessful my Altmer barbarian can be without the game forcing it upon me.

QUOTE
I should note at this point that I think a whole lot of the problem (broadly - I make no claims about you personally) isn't really about the game at all - it's that the distinction is made in the context of "race," which triggers a basic gut-level reaction in people. I don't think it actually has anything at all to do with how the concept of racial differences affects the game, but is primarily just a fundamental discomfort with the notion that there might even be any notable differences between "races." And I can't help but wonder if this controversy would even exist if they were referred to as different species instead.

First of all I thank you for making this distinction, even if it was unnecessary. I think we all on this forum have devoted an appropriate level of thought to this subject. Your arguments so far have been eloquent and extremely engaging to read. I don't believe you have to worry about offending, and I don't believe that you think my comments are some knee-jerk reaction based on the fact that some game developer thinks that black people are dumb.

If you only see the various races as a predetermined set of attributes and skills then I can see how you think there’s no reason to choose a race if all those attributes/skills start the same. But I think that misses the bigger picture. When I decide to play an Altmer the starting attributes, skills, and racial specials are completely irrelevant to me. I am choosing to play as a member of the first race to navigate the oceans and seas of Tamriel. I am choosing to play as a member of the race that gave all of Tamriel its language and science (not to mention its religion and magic). When I choose an Orc I keep in mind the founding of Orsinium and Boethiah’s harsh treatment of Trinimac. When I play a Bosmer I try to hold to the Green Pact and a healthy fear/respect for Y’ffre if my character hails from Valenwood. As a Redguard I wrestle with the conflict of Crowns versus Forebears and, now with Skyrim, the betrayal by the Empire when they signed the White-Gold Concordant. Race is more about viewpoint based on shared cultural experience than it is about pointy ears and yellow or green skin. That viewpoint doesn’t waver, even when everyone starts with the same attributes.

QUOTE
So that means that my ultimate RPG (I can't even say ultimate TES game, because that's so thoroughly inconceivable - Beth WILL NOT make any game even vaguely like that) includes attributes and includes racial/character presets that can be toggled/adjusted to the player's preferences, so those who want diversity and advantages and disadvantages can have them and those who want a broad sea of undifferentiated blank slates can have them.

This is the first thing you have written so far that comes across as condescending and it is, quite frankly, beneath you.

QUOTE
I'm not wholly comfortable with that, just because it would seem to invite balance problems to have to build a world around some potentially relatively broad range of choices there, but that's the best I can do.

And that is exactly what Bethesda did in Fallout 3. S.P.E.C.I.A.L are attributes that each player can tailor to his/her liking right before the player is given the option to select 3 skills to 'tag.'


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Winter Wolf
post Apr 11 2015, 01:51 AM
Post #71


Knower
Group Icon
Joined: 15-March 10
From: Melbourne, Australia



QUOTE(gpstr @ Apr 9 2015, 06:58 PM) *

As but one example - Dawn the Breton. She uses magic and a claymore - mostly destruction and illusion magic for ranged attacks and crowd control, and a claymore up close. She has no need for the sort of limitations you insist on since she's already limited by the fact that she's splitting her time and energy between divergent skills. She'll never be as skillful with a sword as Jibran, for instance, who's never done anything but swing a sword, and she'll never be as skillful with magic as Tim, for instance, who never did anything but cast spells. The limits you believe necessary already exist solely as a function of the fact that time is finite and time spent doing one thing is time not spent doing another. And, more to the point, in your demand that some sort of unnecessary restriction be placed on characters, it's quite likely, just because this is "the way it's always been," that you would decree that she, as a "mage," can't use a claymore AT ALL. She'd be arbitrarily required to use a dagger, as if there's some sort of law of Nirnian physics that causes weapons bigger than that to literally leap from the hands of "mages." So she couldn't even exist.


The one mistake I have made is that I came on this forum and started preaching 'character classes,' without defining what I actually mean by that. Somewhere everything got mixed up in the discussion about role play and the direction that the game should take.

My idea of classes is very similar to the way that Acadian demonstrated in the example above. Buffy takes certain skills out to 100 and others out to a lower value, and that is exactly what I would promote. Those values determine one class from another and is a way to prevent every character from becoming bland and uniform after you have either reached (or come close) to the level cap.

The system could look like this as an example-
Four specialist builds that take 5 skills out to 110 max. (fighter, magic-user, rogue and archer)
Then as many multi-class builds as the player can imagine that have 7 skills that have a 80 max.

All other skills not chosen would only be able to reach 25 (Apprentice level) and have to stop. Currently in Oblivion we can still level all minors, in fact, every skill out to 100. This is something I hate with just as much passion as you hate character classes.

The main difference between my design and the mod that Acadian uses is that I strongly maintain that a specialist character should always advance further than a jack-of-all-trades character, thus the skill level caps that I would use. Of course, Buffy is in many ways more extreme (and fun) in the example of character classes. She has her non-using skills sitting at only 15.

Dungeon and Dragons did have the rule that restricted use of many things, ie Clerics cannot use edged weapons, only thieves had back stab, magic-users could only use a dagger etc, and the reason for those rules was so that each player had a different character around the table. It would have been ridiculous to have 6 identical builds playing the same game at the same time.

Elder Scrolls is strictly a single player game so I see no reason to promote such rules. I would prefer to have the player have to tag 'blade' as a skill if they want to have it reach a high level. 110 for a specialist build, 80 for a multi-class character and only 25 if they have not chosen to tag it.

Other than that the player can player the game anyway that he desires.

QUOTE
I have to have some basic idea of what the character's going to do to survive, because some majors, and more significantly, their specialization, are going to depend on that. But it's not necessary to know much - I just need an idea of what type of melee weapons they'll use if any, what type of armor they'll wear if any and what type of spells they'll cast if any. It's only necessary to set things up so that they don't level too quickly but they aren't crippled either - basically, that just requires making sure that their important skills are either non-spec majors or spec minors. Beyond that, it generally works out - some struggle more than others to gain the skills they need, but that just becomes part of their story. And if all else fails - if a build just isn't working out - I use the console to retcon it. I just change their majors around as necessary, then edit their skills and attributes to match. That's pretty rare though - I've done it enough times now that I've got a pretty good feel for assigning majors and specialization so that the character can do anything within a fairly broad range and at least not be crippled and not level up so fast that they're uber after too few hours, and that's pretty much all I require as far as that goes.


Thanks for going to time to explain the way that you build the character. I did think it might be something along those lines.

QUOTE
Race is more about viewpoint based on shared cultural experience than it is about pointy ears and yellow or green skin. That viewpoint doesn’t waver, even when everyone starts with the same attributes.

Destri- I really like that you have pointed this out and it is something that does slip under the radar in the real world that we live in. At least by hopeless people like me who rarely get to see the world from another point of view. I do agree with the way that you see the starting game, as every race can have strong or weak, fat or skinny, fast or slow individuals, and it makes little sense to determine a set group of values to those individuals at the beginning.

This is partly the reason I will always see the end of a Beth as more important as the start. Oh how I hate having every skill hit 100 and a level cap approaching god-like status!

This post has been edited by Winter Wolf: Apr 11 2015, 02:00 AM


--------------------
Wealth for all- security for none!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
bobg
post Feb 14 2016, 12:41 AM
Post #72


Retainer

Joined: 21-August 10



I just got to this thread and the idea of defining what I really like in a game caught fire so here goes.

I need to preface this with a my simple philosophy about games. I think people play 1; for the bragging rights and 2; for the entertainment/escape value. Entertainment effects tend to wear off in time like watching a movie too many times. Bragging could be among friends but is mostly done in a forum or game-chat. I think the very best games offer some of both hence the popularity of games like WOW. The point being that yes, the numbers do matter but they shouldn't disrupt the roleplaying. That said, here's what I want.

Number one, above all else, it must be sandbox.

Overall, I liked the gameplay of Daggerfall best. I also preferred it's scale both in territory and dungeons. I liked it's were-beasts, it's faction vendettas, spell casting and weapons based on a combination of skill and chance.
Banking.
Making your own armor.

Morrowinds extensive MQ which took you in one direction at the start and then turned it all around by the end was truly epic. That's what I want in a quest. Otherwise, just let me discover things as I travel around.

Levitation; nuf' said.
Believable transport options.
Really nice smoky, sparkley, spell effects.

I want the best of graphics that pushes the rendering to it's max.
The excellence of Oblivions sound effects (with a few really lame exceptions).
Character animation that doesn't make them look like crash dummies. A good example of doing it right is the latest 'Witcher' game.
Interesting Companions that do a better job of traveling with you rather than trailing behind you.
Charming, elegant, cozy, or foreboding homes the PC can own.
The game must have a Construction set with the powers of the existing CS plus import/export capabilities to a range of current modeling programs such as 3Dmax, Maya, and Blender. This should include adding animations as well as meshes and textures to the game.

Years ago, there were voice simulation programs that sounded very good and could provide enough variety to give game characters their own unique voice. This has never been incorporated into a game but I want it.

AI, and AI, and more AI.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ImperialSnob
post Apr 3 2017, 07:47 PM
Post #73


Master
Group Icon
Joined: 4-May 13



Hand development over to Obsidian tongue.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RaderOfTheLostArk
post May 5 2017, 02:41 PM
Post #74


Agent

Joined: 4-May 17
From: Lilmoth, Black Marsh



My ideal TES game is probably not feasible, but one of the main things I'd like to see is take the best out of what each game has to offer, with some tweaking and improvements. Some examples:

Arena:
-Number of miscellaneous magic items (i.e. amulets, belts, torcs, etc., not weapons or armor that can be enchanted)
-I'd like for some dungeons to be the length of those in Arena
-Bring back some of the creatures (e.g. lizard men and medusas) found in the game
-Include some of the deities from the game that have never or almost never have been mentioned since then

Daggerfall:
-A length of time passes before you can move up ranks in guilds; in Daggerfall, when you meet the requirements for a higher rank 28 in-game days had to pass before it was official (obviously not feasible in the later, scaled-down games, so I'd like for some ranks to have a 1-3 day waiting period before you rank up)
-Some services in guilds are restricted until you reach a certain rank; I'd like to see something similar applied to guilds in a new Elder Scrolls
-The character creation system (by the Nine, there is so much that can be done with that if it was brought back)

Morrowind:
-Variety of magic spells available
-Less reliance on markers (or better yet, allow for markers, a radius, and be given directions to where you need to go
-More methods of travel

Oblivion:
-Variety of miscellaneous quests (I personally felt that Oblivion did the best job in this regard)
-Pacing of the faction quests (also felt that Oblivion did this the best, for the most part)

Skyrim:
-The perk system, which I think has allowed for the best differentiation in characters' progress thus far
-Functionality of the spell system

Online:
-More emphasis on the culture of each province
-More utility to food and drink
-A lot of the elements of the crafting

Battlespire:
-I have played very little, but I know Battlespire shows some Daedric politics, which is really cool

Redguard:
-Obviously since it isn't an RPG and it has a set protagonist it is hard to come up with things that would translate well to TESVI, but I'd love for more lore on Cyrus

Can't speak on the mobile games because I'm not sure if they have anything to offer for a new TES game.


--------------------
"I so do love mortal fantasy. I'll play along: what will you give me for the soul of Prince A'Tor?"
"I'll spell your name right on your tombstone." -Cyrus facing Nafaalilargus, The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ghastley
post May 5 2017, 03:52 PM
Post #75


Master
Group Icon
Joined: 13-December 10



I have issues with the way that Daggerfall did character creation, but I agree that it could be the basis for a better one. The idea of trading weaknesses against strengths when creating the character is the right one, but they failed to link them, so you could pick weakness to paralysis, for example, at the same time as immunity to it. That would have been better on a slider, with immunity at one end. I'm not sure what belongs at the other end, though. Inability to move?

There are some attributes that are inherently binary, like waterbreathing. You either do, or you don't, and percentages don't make sense. These are perhaps the ones to distribute, one per race, as differentiating bonuses.

And by Race, I mean man, mer, cat, lizard, and maybe some new ones, rather than the artificial cosmetic ones we have now. These should also act as factions (although others should exist) with some inter-faction disposition consequences. It would be good if the edges of the races overlap a bit, with the ability to create an elf who passes for human, or vice-versa.

Morrowind's variety of transports was welcome, but its "walk everywhere, or you'll fail if you run" wasn't. It also made a few places hubs and thus diminished all the others. An expanded Mark/Recall that effectively let you add you own hubs was a popular mod, if only so you could go home to dump your loot.

In Oblivion, I found myself using the same "wait for it" style in my own mods. The way you get people to do all the quest lines is to make them wait for the next step in each, and look around for something to fill in the time. This was much better than Skyrim's tangling one quest line with another, so that you have to join the College to do the MQ, etc.

Skyrim's mechanics, such as the event-driven scripting and Radiant quests are a must for a mod-maker. I'd keep the choices of the perk system, but tone down the effects of the steps. Especially the sudden ability smith with a particular material.


--------------------
Mods for Oblivion and now Daggerfall and Skyrim. Fan fiction, too.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Decrepit
post May 7 2017, 09:03 PM
Post #76


Knower
Group Icon
Joined: 9-September 15
From: Mid-South USA



This topic is dangerous for me, as my "ideal" TES title is feasible only on a more advanced form of the Holodeck seen in the old TV series Star Trek: The Next Generation. I'll throw out a few ideas that don't require so elaborate a setup. Even so, at least one is impossible with current PC horsepower, more are impossible or at least impractical on console, and one is might be highly unpopular.

World Size: Daggerfall got it right. If we're talking "ideal", this is a must for me.

World "composition" (for lack of a better term): In Minecraft, the entire world is composed of squares or derivatives thereof. These "building blocks" can, for the most part, be manipulated by the avatar. My ideal TES title needs this too. Only, the basic Minecraft "block" is half the size of the avatar, far too large to realistically represent a great many things. I'd compromise and settle for building blocks the size of grains of sand. I'd make it so the avatar can manipulate these "blocks" only in a realistic limited manner so that, for instance, an avatar can not chop down trees with his or her bare hands. My thought is that an avatar should be able to, say, take shovel to ground and see it response realistically with dirt flying at each dig. A game world the size of Daggerfall, composed of sand-grain size nodules, is the demand I see as impossible for now, even on high-end consumer PCs.

Fast Travel: Here's my unpopular stance. In a game world the size of Daggerfall, I'd abolish the sort of "casual" fast travel seen in Oblivion and implement a more limited system. My thought is that fast travel should be confined to sanctioned teleport authorities, along with clandestine "shady" practitioners available to those who choose a "dark" path. Teleport service comes at a cost, which can be quite steep depending on distance traveled (and the agency one deals with). On the other hand, those required to travel long distances in the execution of official duty can obtain "passes" from an authority allowing free travel to specific task related destinations. (The game might also have other forms of fast transport such as Morrowind’s Silt Striders, but these would travel in real-time at whatever speed is realistic for them, as do Oblivion/Skyrim horses.)

Jobs: My ideal TES entry would sport a wide variety of “meaningful” career professions the avatar could avail him or herself of if they so choose. Road Patrols provided by the Oblivion mod “The Elder Council” are an obvious and fairly simple to implement example, as are its embryonic tax gathering assignments. These need more sophistication, but if properly implemented can provide avatars with lifetime work. Again, this are examples only. There should be a great wealth of professions of all sorts.

Guild Leadership: Of the five TES entries, I prefer Daggerfall’s advancement mechanics and mundane quest assignments, along with Oblivion’s story-line quests. An avatar should not be offered leadership position within a guild unless meaningful responsibility comes with the title. (These would then fall under Jobs.) If leadership is offered, avatars’ should be able to opt out for whatever reason.

I’d like to see more survival/immersive/Sim-like elements added. Heck, Minecraft’s food/health maintenance/recovery mechanic is a cut above what TES provides. (While not ideal, I wouldn’t mind a mod that implements that exact mechanic in Oblivion. Don’t know that I’d install it, but I’d be tempted. Yes, I know similar mods are available. None excite me enough to want them in my load order.)

Better / more realistic Melee Combat: Why not? Kingdom Come: Deliverance looks at if it will prove that this is possible, though it itself isn’t perfect by any means.

I’ve been giving much thought to timescale, but that’s a whole other topic.

I’m losing my train of thought, not that I had much of one to start with. Better call it quits.


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SubRosa
post May 7 2017, 10:14 PM
Post #77


Councilor
Group Icon
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds



I think the ultimate TES game would be coded by some company other than Bethesda.


--------------------
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RaderOfTheLostArk
post May 8 2017, 02:26 PM
Post #78


Agent

Joined: 4-May 17
From: Lilmoth, Black Marsh



QUOTE(ghastley @ May 5 2017, 10:52 AM) *

I have issues with the way that Daggerfall did character creation, but I agree that it could be the basis for a better one. The idea of trading weaknesses against strengths when creating the character is the right one, but they failed to link them, so you could pick weakness to paralysis, for example, at the same time as immunity to it. That would have been better on a slider, with immunity at one end. I'm not sure what belongs at the other end, though. Inability to move?

There are some attributes that are inherently binary, like waterbreathing. You either do, or you don't, and percentages don't make sense. These are perhaps the ones to distribute, one per race, as differentiating bonuses.

And by Race, I mean man, mer, cat, lizard, and maybe some new ones, rather than the artificial cosmetic ones we have now. These should also act as factions (although others should exist) with some inter-faction disposition consequences. It would be good if the edges of the races overlap a bit, with the ability to create an elf who passes for human, or vice-versa.

Morrowind's variety of transports was welcome, but its "walk everywhere, or you'll fail if you run" wasn't. It also made a few places hubs and thus diminished all the others. An expanded Mark/Recall that effectively let you add you own hubs was a popular mod, if only so you could go home to dump your loot.

In Oblivion, I found myself using the same "wait for it" style in my own mods. The way you get people to do all the quest lines is to make them wait for the next step in each, and look around for something to fill in the time. This was much better than Skyrim's tangling one quest line with another, so that you have to join the College to do the MQ, etc.

Skyrim's mechanics, such as the event-driven scripting and Radiant quests are a must for a mod-maker. I'd keep the choices of the perk system, but tone down the effects of the steps. Especially the sudden ability smith with a particular material.


Oh, absolutely on Daggerfall. It wasn't perfect by any means, but due to the variety of things you could do with it and the depth I thought that had the best character creation in TES, at least in concept. Building off of that would be welcome to see. But along with refining strengths/weaknesses, the division of major/minor skills, etc., I'd like to see at least some of this to be at least mostly optional, if not completely. If somebody does not want to deal with the details of their character and make them completely average, let them. If you want to add flavor and spice things up by tweaking the minutiae, go for it. That's a general overview of what I'd like to see from character creation.

I still wish for fast travel mechanics to be kept, but have enough "natural" means of transportation to be able to cater to a wider variety of players. I like having the multiple means of transportation, but sometimes I'm just lazy and want to fast travel. tongue.gif Having mark and recall back would add some more variety, and through perks you could even set 2 or 3 marks to recall to.

I have some ideas for smithing, but that is a topic for another time.


QUOTE(Decrepit @ May 7 2017, 04:03 PM) *

This topic is dangerous for me, as my "ideal" TES title is feasible only on a more advanced form of the Holodeck seen in the old TV series Star Trek: The Next Generation. I'll throw out a few ideas that don't require so elaborate a setup. Even so, at least one is impossible with current PC horsepower, more are impossible or at least impractical on console, and one is might be highly unpopular.

World Size: Daggerfall got it right. If we're talking "ideal", this is a must for me.

Fast Travel: Here's my unpopular stance. In a game world the size of Daggerfall, I'd abolish the sort of "casual" fast travel seen in Oblivion and implement a more limited system. My thought is that fast travel should be confined to sanctioned teleport authorities, along with clandestine "shady" practitioners available to those who choose a "dark" path. Teleport service comes at a cost, which can be quite steep depending on distance traveled (and the agency one deals with). On the other hand, those required to travel long distances in the execution of official duty can obtain "passes" from an authority allowing free travel to specific task related destinations. (The game might also have other forms of fast transport such as Morrowind’s Silt Striders, but these would travel in real-time at whatever speed is realistic for them, as do Oblivion/Skyrim horses.)

Jobs: My ideal TES entry would sport a wide variety of “meaningful” career professions the avatar could avail him or herself of if they so choose. Road Patrols provided by the Oblivion mod “The Elder Council” are an obvious and fairly simple to implement example, as are its embryonic tax gathering assignments. These need more sophistication, but if properly implemented can provide avatars with lifetime work. Again, this are examples only. There should be a great wealth of professions of all sorts.

Guild Leadership: Of the five TES entries, I prefer Daggerfall’s advancement mechanics and mundane quest assignments, along with Oblivion’s story-line quests. An avatar should not be offered leadership position within a guild unless meaningful responsibility comes with the title. (These would then fall under Jobs.) If leadership is offered, avatars’ should be able to opt out for whatever reason.



Part of me does want a world the size of Daggerfall. That was part of that game's charm. In the interest of feasibility, I'd rather keep the scaled-down, heavily detailed worlds of Morrowind onward.

Regarding your jobs paragraph, something I'd really love to see is more guilds and a wider variety of them including brand-new ones. As an avid history lover, I'd love for an historical guild of sorts that delves into the past of the province that we are in.

And for guild leadership, I agree on the optional part. It should not be an office thrust upon the player and there is nothing they can do about it. But if the player wants it, they should be able to have it. Obviously if it was realistic they would have a lot of responsibilities to attend to, but in the interest of fun (it is a video game after all) I'd rather these be toned down and/or optional.


--------------------
"I so do love mortal fantasy. I'll play along: what will you give me for the soul of Prince A'Tor?"
"I'll spell your name right on your tombstone." -Cyrus facing Nafaalilargus, The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Decrepit
post May 9 2017, 01:46 AM
Post #79


Knower
Group Icon
Joined: 9-September 15
From: Mid-South USA



QUOTE(RaderOfTheLostArk @ May 8 2017, 08:26 AM) *

Part of me does want a world the size of Daggerfall. That was part of that game's charm. In the interest of feasibility, I'd rather keep the scaled-down, heavily detailed worlds of Morrowind onward.

I hear this argument between size and detail quite often, but don't buy in to it, especially as we're talking "ideal". My ideal TES title would be both Daggerfallesque is size and richly detailed, its graphics quality at least on par with Kingdom Come: Deliverance.


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RaderOfTheLostArk
post May 9 2017, 08:28 PM
Post #80


Agent

Joined: 4-May 17
From: Lilmoth, Black Marsh



QUOTE(Decrepit @ May 8 2017, 08:46 PM) *

QUOTE(RaderOfTheLostArk @ May 8 2017, 08:26 AM) *

Part of me does want a world the size of Daggerfall. That was part of that game's charm. In the interest of feasibility, I'd rather keep the scaled-down, heavily detailed worlds of Morrowind onward.

I hear this argument between size and detail quite often, but don't buy in to it, especially as we're talking "ideal". My ideal TES title would be both Daggerfallesque is size and richly detailed, its graphics quality at least on par with Kingdom Come: Deliverance.


Fair enough. I was just trying to come up with what is most ideal to me but was still in the realm of what is likely currently technologically possible. But I digress.

I wish we could have a mix of Arena and Daggerfall in terms of scope. All the cities and main quest locations from Arena (if lore-wise are still standing, in the same place, etc.) would be available, and then jam-packed with locations like in Daggerfall, and each province has a scope similar to High Rock and Hammerfell in Daggerfall. We would also have multiple modes of transportation and fast travel, but if you wanted to you could travel on foot to each location. A couple things I wish we could have seen in Skyrim is the Fortress of Ice from Arena and some lore on what exactly happened to the Arena city of Snowhawk. I really appreciate how Online has some main quest locations from Arena (e.g. Crypt of Hearts, Selene's Web). I'd also like to see the ruins of Crystal Tower, and what a modern-day version of the Adamantine Tower is like now. All of this is graphically at least on par with Skyrim or Online.


--------------------
"I so do love mortal fantasy. I'll play along: what will you give me for the soul of Prince A'Tor?"
"I'll spell your name right on your tombstone." -Cyrus facing Nafaalilargus, The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

4 Pages V « < 2 3 4
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th September 2017 - 02:32 AM