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> Argonian Hearthfires, because I might do it again.
ghastley
post May 30 2015, 10:32 PM
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Darkwater Den is a great home, but it's too complete. My character Hot-Lips doesn't want to be reminded that she hasn't collected any of the Dragon masks, or claws, or paragons, or...

So she found the ruin at the bottom of the Eastern end of Lake Ilinata, and after clearing a bit of rubble, opened the door beneath it. There was a small ruin that just needed a bit more rubble moved out, and would be quite inhabitable.

I'll be stealing ideas from Arthmoor's Volkihar Castle cleanup, and using rubble piles as activators to clear rooms, except that I'll take it a bit further with the way they block the room, and there will be Hearthfire workbenches in the resulting empty rooms. You'll make the furniture in the same way, but you won't build the house, you'll just dig it out.

So far I have:
Underwater entrance to suit an Argonian.
Nice damp ambience, with roots and moss in the main living areas - greenish lighting.
Kitchen and Armory/Forge are clear of roots and moss and have regular yellow candlelight / orange forge glow.

Rooms are:
  • Partially flooded passage with stairs up to entrance hall
  • Entrance hall/dining room which connects to
    • Armory/forge
    • Kitchen
    • Bedroom (large enough for parents and kids)
  • Bedroom connects to
    • Enchanting lab
    • Alchemy lab (with secret door to shore exit)
  • Secret passage to shore exit.
The exit on shore is undecided - I'd like to use a large hollow tree to hide it.

I've connected to rubble and clutter in front of the underwater door to a parent marker which will all be disabled by the quest that gets you the ownership. I want to do something similar to the Orc one, where you do a number of "favor" quests for Argonians to deserve the home, as well as doing all the building, but I'm not sure there are enough of those. Rescuing Derkeethus, of course, but what else?

I haven't yet Nav-meshed the interior, or placed the log for the shore entrance. I still need to add a lot more clutter, including the bookshelves, weapon racks etc. that take so long to connect up. And I can't show you any screenshots until I get the new server built. sad.gif

It turns out that there are only six available quests that will count. Three in Riften (not including From-Deepest-Fathoms!) and three in Windhelm docks. They include some theft, but no murders. I'm thinking only two needed this time, instead of the five for the Orc Stronghold, where a lot more were available, especially mining.

This post has been edited by ghastley: May 31 2015, 02:03 AM


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Grits
post May 31 2015, 03:55 PM
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This sounds great, ghastley! Iím glad youíve reduced the favor quests since there are so few for Argonians. Rescuing Derkeethus is a pretty big deal for most of my characters since the Falmer are tough.

I love the flooded entrance idea. The shore entrance hidden in a hollow tree or stump sounds excellent. Yay, some love for the Saxhleel! smile.gif

Good luck with your server building. Iím looking forward to seeing the pictures when youíre ready!


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mALX
post May 31 2015, 11:50 PM
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I love the idea of the hollow tree exit a lot! It is unique, I haven't seen that in Skyrim. Also love the idea of questing and favors to earn the right to live there, so much more fun than an outright purchase.

When I first saw Arthmoor's idea of being able to pick up the rubble with Player activation - to me that was the greatest thing imaginable for roleplay! I was really excited about downloading that mod, but didn't do it after reading the comments page.

For some reason it was very buggy in his mod, I don't remember why (only that there were a lot of complaints on his comment page).

That really surprised me because Arthmoor most def beta tests his mods. (so not sure what the issue turned out to be).

But I have loved that idea since I heard it. This mod sounds Awesome!




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ghastley
post Jun 1 2015, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE(mALX @ May 31 2015, 06:50 PM) *


For some reason it was very buggy in his mod, I don't remember why (only that there were a lot of complaints on his comment page).

That really surprised me because Arthmoor most def beta tests his mods. (so not sure what the issue turned out to be).


I've used it, and it's not buggy. It can, and probably does, conflict with some other mods, but probably more relevant is that this is the mod he offered to Steam for the paid mods trial. He got a lot of bogus reports because of that.

Plus the rubble piles don't have flashing signs over them, so a lot of players had issues determining where to dig, and moaned about that. Some were the other side of a door from the rubble they cleared, although in the same cell, and there were two that were pillars, not piles. The only issue I had was that the floor piles used the wrong animation, due to a keyword error on the furniture.

There are weapon plaques that are too high for a short character to use, but that's because I went below the standard height using the RaceMenu mod. I'd have liked a few other things to be different, but they weren't wrong.


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ghastley
post Jun 1 2015, 02:45 PM
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Back to my own mod: I nav-meshed the area yesterday, and now Derkeethus follows.

I still need to add the complex items, like mannequins, bookshelves, weapon racks/plaques, that need a lot of pieces linked together. Then I have to make a list of items that can be constructed, and add keywords, inventory items, recipes for each of them, and finally adapt the scripts and fill in their properties. Since I've done all that once for the Orc version, I at least know how this time round. If I can remember the details, that is. I placed the log pile on the shore, and it has the same issue I started with on the Orc mod. It won't show the current log count, until I hook it up to a quest alias somehow.

There will be a few significant differences. Goat horns aren't needed at all, as the wall sconces and chandeliers are all nordic ruin style, and don't use them. The interior doors are all iron ones, that will need extra ingots instead of logs. You'll need a lot less clay, too, as there aren't any exterior walls to build, and only a few interior items (smelter, planters, oven) need it.

Still undecided is whether to allow furnishing to start before the whole space is cleared. There are six rooms and two entry/exit passages, and only the rooms will have rubble. I could allow furnishing a room to start after its own rubble is cleared, and all doors in place, or I could just enable the workbench for everything only after it's all clear. Keeping it simple is appealing, but letting the player choose not to have an enchanting lab by simply leaving the rubble is too. Of course, they can clear it, and just not furnish it, so it's not a strong argument that way.

I want the shore exit to be an entrance, too, so I have to experiment with a trigger to activate the door at that end. It will probably work like the rowboats, where there's a relay to the actual door which is hidden (below the ground right now). The door marker, which is where you arrive when you use the door, gets placed where it's needed, and isn't a constraint.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jun 1 2015, 02:51 PM


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mALX
post Jun 1 2015, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jun 1 2015, 09:28 AM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ May 31 2015, 06:50 PM) *


For some reason it was very buggy in his mod, I don't remember why (only that there were a lot of complaints on his comment page).

That really surprised me because Arthmoor most def beta tests his mods. (so not sure what the issue turned out to be).


I've used it, and it's not buggy. It can, and probably does, conflict with some other mods, but probably more relevant is that this is the mod he offered to Steam for the paid mods trial. He got a lot of bogus reports because of that.

Plus the rubble piles don't have flashing signs over them, so a lot of players had issues determining where to dig, and moaned about that. Some were the other side of a door from the rubble they cleared, although in the same cell, and there were two that were pillars, not piles. The only issue I had was that the floor piles used the wrong animation, due to a keyword error on the furniture.

There are weapon plaques that are too high for a short character to use, but that's because I went below the standard height using the RaceMenu mod. I'd have liked a few other things to be different, but they weren't wrong.


Aha, now that explains a lot! Thank you for explaining that, because those complaints are the whole reason I didn't download that mod - I wanted it, and loved the idea of cleaning up the house like that.

Thanks Ghastley!





QUOTE(ghastley @ Jun 1 2015, 09:45 AM) *

Back to my own mod: I nav-meshed the area yesterday, and now Derkeethus follows.

I still need to add the complex items, like mannequins, bookshelves, weapon racks/plaques, that need a lot of pieces linked together. Then I have to make a list of items that can be constructed, and add keywords, inventory items, recipes for each of them, and finally adapt the scripts and fill in their properties. Since I've done all that once for the Orc version, I at least know how this time round. If I can remember the details, that is. I placed the log pile on the shore, and it has the same issue I started with on the Orc mod. It won't show the current log count, until I hook it up to a quest alias somehow.

There will be a few significant differences. Goat horns aren't needed at all, as the wall sconces and chandeliers are all nordic ruin style, and don't use them. The interior doors are all iron ones, that will need extra ingots instead of logs. You'll need a lot less clay, too, as there aren't any exterior walls to build, and only a few interior items (smelter, planters, oven) need it.

Still undecided is whether to allow furnishing to start before the whole space is cleared. There are six rooms and two entry/exit passages, and only the rooms will have rubble. I could allow furnishing a room to start after its own rubble is cleared, and all doors in place, or I could just enable the workbench for everything only after it's all clear. Keeping it simple is appealing, but letting the player choose not to have an enchanting lab by simply leaving the rubble is too. Of course, they can clear it, and just not furnish it, so it's not a strong argument that way.

I want the shore exit to be an entrance, too, so I have to experiment with a trigger to activate the door at that end. It will probably work like the rowboats, where there's a relay to the actual door which is hidden (below the ground right now). The door marker, which is where you arrive when you use the door, gets placed where it's needed, and isn't a constraint.



The idea of building your own home with raw materials is one I have been very excited about doing since I got Hearthfire, (but haven't gotten to try it out yet). I really love that you are putting so much for the Player to do in this mod, that makes it so much more fun for me.

I love all your plans for this mod, can't wait till you start showing screens of it!





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ghastley
post Jun 22 2015, 08:15 PM
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I made a few screenshots this weekend, then decided that the place needed more clutter, and deleted them again and opened up the CK to add more stuff. I never got round to re-shooting the screenshots. laugh.gif

I'm wasting a lot of time trying to get the "make Friends" quests working the way the Orc ones did. They look identical, apart from the Argonian race replacing the Orc one, but they just won't start. Usually that means there are alias-fillling issues, but I just can't see them for looking.



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Grits
post Jun 23 2015, 04:07 AM
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Oops. Iím happy to hear the progress! I hope the solution to the Argonian quest issues presents itself without delay.


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mALX
post Jun 25 2015, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jun 22 2015, 03:15 PM) *

I made a few screenshots this weekend, then decided that the place needed more clutter, and deleted them again and opened up the CK to add more stuff. I never got round to re-shooting the screenshots. laugh.gif

I'm wasting a lot of time trying to get the "make Friends" quests working the way the Orc ones did. They look identical, apart from the Argonian race replacing the Orc one, but they just won't start. Usually that means there are alias-fillling issues, but I just can't see them for looking.



That is so strange that just changing the race of the quest NPC's affected the quest working! I know you will find the cause, you are too tenacious not to, lol. I just hope it doesn't take long and involves no frustrating moments like I was having till you helped me several times in the past!





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ghastley
post Jun 27 2015, 02:13 PM
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Did some reshooting after adding some of the clutter (all of which still needs enable parents, etc.)

Hot-Lips at the front door under Lake Ilinalta. This area is covered in rubble in the base game, and the rubble pile is removed and the door added when you're notified of the site. Map marker is enabled, too.

Derkeethus at the back door in the log. The back door doesn't exist until the secret exit is built.

The living room which needs more clutter, and the troll skull shouldn't be falling through the shelf!

The bedroom needs plants (or provision for planting). It has bookshelf space for 60 books, and child beds/chests for adoption.

The kitchen is about right.

The workshop needs clutter.

I still need to add some weapon racks and stuff to the Alchemy lab and the Enchanting lab. Lots of fiddly pieces and scripts to wire up. When I finish placing the furnishings, the I have to make the recipes and misc items to build it all, and finally cover it all in rubble so you can dig it out!


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mALX
post Jun 27 2015, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jun 27 2015, 09:13 AM) *

Did some reshooting after adding some of the clutter (all of which still needs enable parents, etc.)

Hot-Lips at the front door under Lake Ilinalta. This area is covered in rubble in the base game, and the rubble pile is removed and the door added when you're notified of the site. Map marker is enabled, too.

Derkeethus at the back door in the log. The back door doesn't exist until the secret exit is built.

The living room which needs more clutter, and the troll skull shouldn't be falling through the shelf!

The bedroom needs plants (or provision for planting). It has bookshelf space for 60 books, and child beds/chests for adoption.

The kitchen is about right.

The workshop needs clutter.

I still need to add some weapon racks and stuff to the Alchemy lab and the Enchanting lab. Lots of fiddly pieces and scripts to wire up. When I finish placing the furnishings, the I have to make the recipes and misc items to build it all, and finally cover it all in rubble so you can dig it out!


I love the idea of having to unearth it! That troll skull in the living room tickled me, it fits perfectly with the idea of the house being an archaeological find/dig - kind of a clue to the original residents? Anyway, I love it!




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Grits
post Jul 1 2015, 12:29 AM
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It looks great, ghastley! I love how the green roots make the atmosphere feel not just underground but also under a lake. I like your balance of furnishings and space. Lots of homes are too big, and many are too crowded. Yours are just how I like them. smile.gif


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ghastley
post Jul 25 2015, 09:39 PM
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Making some progress. I now have the rubble clearing part of the mod working.

Clearing rubble

The process of hooking all the clutter to its enable parents and populating the Formlists and properties for the furniture construction is the really tedious part, so I've left that the last. But now I'm running out of other things to do!

I'm beginning to think that the problem I've had with the Argonian favour quests is that the same people are counted for the city ones, so I may abandon that completely, and just hook it on the end of From-Deepest-Fathoms quest to return the Lexicon to Avanchnzel. She doesn't give the player anything for doing it, and this would fill that loose end. Map by courier avoids any new dialog being needed.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jul 25 2015, 09:43 PM


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mALX
post Jul 26 2015, 05:14 AM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jul 25 2015, 04:39 PM) *

Making some progress. I now have the rubble clearing part of the mod working.

Clearing rubble

The process of hooking all the clutter to its enable parents and populating the Formlists and properties for the furniture construction is the really tedious part, so I've left that the last. But now I'm running out of other things to do!

I'm beginning to think that the problem I've had with the Argonian favour quests is that the same people are counted for the city ones, so I may abandon that completely, and just hook it on the end of From-Deepest-Fathoms quest to return the Lexicon to Avanchnzel. She doesn't give the player anything for doing it, and this would fill that loose end. Map by courier avoids any new dialog being needed.



Yeah, it is working! Er... I changed around my E and space bar because I like being able to use E for jump and space bar to activate; would that be a problem for the mod?


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Grits
post Jul 26 2015, 11:28 AM
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Yay for your progress!

Iíve had From-Deepest-Fathoms die in some of my games due to dragon attacks on the Riften docks, but the uesp tells me that her quest can be started by taking the Lexicon from her coffin. I mention it for the wording of your note in the event of F-D-Fís demise.


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ghastley
post Jul 26 2015, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 26 2015, 12:14 AM) *

Yeah, it is working! Er... I changed around my E and space bar because I like being able to use E for jump and space bar to activate; would that be a problem for the mod?

Activation is taken care of by the game engine. The mod just has to catch the notification.


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mALX
post Jul 26 2015, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jul 26 2015, 11:20 AM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 26 2015, 12:14 AM) *

Yeah, it is working! Er... I changed around my E and space bar because I like being able to use E for jump and space bar to activate; would that be a problem for the mod?

Activation is taken care of by the game engine. The mod just has to catch the notification.



So that means no problem? That's great news!

These last three mods you have made, it has really been exciting watching as they progress from the original inspiration through the problem solving to bring them to life; and they are a blast to play in, too! You always amaze me even when I know you will do something, just seeing all you had to do to get there!





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ghastley
post Jul 27 2015, 03:12 AM
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I have a number of bugs still to work out, but the recipes, Misc Item tokens, and the scripts and linkages are all in place. My test characters have cleared the rubble, and built all the furnishings. The bookshelves and mannequins work, but the weapon racks don't. sad.gif And I have a few lights that flick on and off depending on which way you're facing. I haven't put in room-bounds and portals yet, which may fix that issue.

I still need to build the quest that puts it all in sequence, and enables the site and its map marker, but that's all stuff I know how to do. I can start the quest from a kicker that triggers off the player leaving either of the two dungeons for the rescue and lexicon quests, and if the quests are both completed, send the courier.

One little thing I need to fiddle with is the rubble clearing. You find some useful materials in the rubble (taken from a leveled list) such as iron ore, empty bottles you can smelt into glass, and quarried stone. I just have a simple list that makes each item equally likely at present, but I should probably bias it to getting reusable stone more than anything else. Any ideas what to add as rare finds? The script, which is a simplified version of the mining one, has parameters for how many hits it takes to get something out, and how many times to cycle before the rubble is cleared. I'll fiddle with those settings a bit, when I adjust the list for the found items.

Also, there's the usual starter chest with some materials in it, but since you're not building a "small house" at the beginning, I need to decide on what's helpful, bearing in mind the loot from the rubble.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jul 27 2015, 01:48 PM


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ghastley
post Jul 29 2015, 02:09 PM
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We've now reached the "but how can something so simple not work?" stage.

I still have the problem of the two sets of weapon racks not working. They're identical to the ones that work in the Orc version, as far as I can tell.

There's a simple trigger zone at the entrance to advance the quest, so you complete the "find the place" stage and move on to the "clear the rubble" stage. It doesn't do anything.

And just about every detail is baked into the save, so I have to start a new test character each time I try to fix anything. This is getting tedious.

On the positive side, the courier works, and delivers the right letter to tell the player about the ruin. I discovered that the courier depends on the player changing location to get its starting event, so standing in one place and waiting will make him take forever!

Some thoughts:
The player needs a pickaxe to clear the rubble. Should I leave one in the rubble near the entrance, in case the player doesn't bother carrying one?
The secret door is currently made constructable when you've made the beds, on the grounds that you need an escape route once you made provision for a family. Should anything else be required?
My current smelter recipe for glass requires 6 empty bottles for one unit. Should that be less? There are only three items that need glass - Alchemy Lab, Enchanter, and a single display case.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jul 29 2015, 03:52 PM


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post Jul 29 2015, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jul 26 2015, 10:12 PM) *

I have a number of bugs still to work out, but the recipes, Misc Item tokens, and the scripts and linkages are all in place. My test characters have cleared the rubble, and built all the furnishings. The bookshelves and mannequins work, but the weapon racks don't. sad.gif And I have a few lights that flick on and off depending on which way you're facing. I haven't put in room-bounds and portals yet, which may fix that issue.

I still need to build the quest that puts it all in sequence, and enables the site and its map marker, but that's all stuff I know how to do. I can start the quest from a kicker that triggers off the player leaving either of the two dungeons for the rescue and lexicon quests, and if the quests are both completed, send the courier.

One little thing I need to fiddle with is the rubble clearing. You find some useful materials in the rubble (taken from a leveled list) such as iron ore, empty bottles you can smelt into glass, and quarried stone. I just have a simple list that makes each item equally likely at present, but I should probably bias it to getting reusable stone more than anything else. Any ideas what to add as rare finds? The script, which is a simplified version of the mining one, has parameters for how many hits it takes to get something out, and how many times to cycle before the rubble is cleared. I'll fiddle with those settings a bit, when I adjust the list for the found items.

Also, there's the usual starter chest with some materials in it, but since you're not building a "small house" at the beginning, I need to decide on what's helpful, bearing in mind the loot from the rubble.



I love the idea that the rubble produces usable productive materials! Wonder what is causing the issue with the weapon racks?






QUOTE(ghastley @ Jul 29 2015, 09:09 AM) *

We've now reached the "but how can something so simple not work?" stage.

I still have the problem of the two sets of weapon racks not working. They're identical to the ones that work in the Orc version, as far as I can tell.

There's a simple trigger zone at the entrance to advance the quest, so you complete the "find the place" stage and move on to the "clear the rubble" stage. It doesn't do anything.

And just about every detail is baked into the save, so I have to start a new test character each time I try to fix anything. This is getting tedious.

On the positive side, the courier works, and delivers the right letter to tell the player about the ruin. I discovered that the courier depends on the player changing location to get its starting event, so standing in one place and waiting will make him take forever!

Some thoughts:
The player needs a pickaxe to clear the rubble. Should I leave one in the rubble near the entrance, in case the player doesn't bother carrying one?
The secret door is currently made constructable when you've made the beds, on the grounds that you need an escape route once you made provision for a family. Should anything else be required?
My current smelter recipe for glass requires 6 empty bottles for one unit. Should that be less? There are only three items that need glass - Alchemy Lab, Enchanter, and a single display case.



I vote to place a pickaxe in the area, just for convenience sake.

Maybe make a key from the iron for the secret door?

As long as you have placed enough supplies to actually complete the project, I don't think the number required should be lessened.

That's just my 2 cents, lol.






This post has been edited by mALX: Jul 29 2015, 09:08 PM


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