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> What happened in Cyrodiil?
Lady Saga
post Apr 4 2012, 02:36 AM
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What do you think happened to Cyrodiil 200 years into the 4th era? Is there an official explanation as to what happens? Does the Arcane university still exist? Is Cyrodiil in as much a decline as portions of Skyrim are?

I'm just wondering about all this, as I just tried to do some research and can't find anything official. I only looked at UESP, though.
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SubRosa
post Apr 4 2012, 03:14 AM
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The Imperial Library's 4th Era Timeline is probably your best bet.


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King Coin
post Apr 4 2012, 04:13 AM
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In a certain quest you meet someone that I got the impression was from the Arcane University.


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Lady Saga
post Apr 4 2012, 12:42 PM
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Ah, thanks to you both. I'm gonna read that link ASAIC. That means as soon as I can...wink.gif

I keep wanting to use Cyrodiil as a reference for a couple of my Skyrim character's games, but I didn't know how bad it's supposed to be there and stuff...

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Apr 4 2012, 12:42 PM
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Grits
post Apr 4 2012, 01:32 PM
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Here's a very short book from the game that might help: The Great War


ETA: From the game Skyrim. I didn't realize we were in the Oblivion section, but the book addresses post-Oblivion events.

This post has been edited by Grits: Apr 4 2012, 01:35 PM


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McBadgere
post Apr 4 2012, 01:43 PM
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*Yawns*... tongue.gif ...

Prefer my version... biggrin.gif ...

Don't forget the Greg Keyes novels...They apparently are cannon...

And although the Arcane University is there, the Mage's Guild has been disbanded...


EDIT...I worried all afternoon that the yawn looked rude...Sorry about that...I meant it towards the book...I have made my feelings on the Thalmor idea quite plain... biggrin.gif ...

This post has been edited by McBadgere: Apr 4 2012, 09:50 PM
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Lady Saga
post Apr 4 2012, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 4 2012, 08:32 AM) *

ETA: From the game Skyrim. I didn't realize we were in the Oblivion section, but the book addresses post-Oblivion events.


ha ha I was a little hesitant about the subject matter. Is it Skyrim? Or is it Cyrodiil? I put it in the Oblivion forum because technically it is about Cyrodiil.

Oh and look everyone. I did it! 666 topics in the Oblivion forum due to this thread! 6 6 6...the number of the beast!!!!

sorry...a little Iron Maiden there. kvleft.gif

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Apr 4 2012, 11:37 PM
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Acadian
post Apr 5 2012, 12:05 AM
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Hee! I looked at the thread title 'What happened in Cyrodiil' and thought this would be chatty thread about what our characters did today in Cyrodiil. Sort of like what they have on the BethSoft forum or like the one McB started here. embarrased.gif

Urg. I didn't know it was a quiz about future history. I quickly figured it out though when I saw that SageRosa was the first responder on the scene. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Acadian: Apr 5 2012, 12:20 AM


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Lady Saga
post Apr 5 2012, 12:21 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 3 2012, 10:14 PM) *

The Imperial Library's 4th Era Timeline is probably your best bet.


Gawd. You know, i just started to read this as I'm having some dinner. Wow, it really kinda bummed me out. White Gold Tower and the IC get taken over by a warlord? That's horrible.

Really makes me realize how special that particular time is...you know...after we close all the gates and save Tamriel from Oblivion, etc. There's a period of real peacefulness in Cyrodiil, if we want to experience the game in such a way.

OTOH, I'm glad to read stuff like this because it's lore. And paying attention to lore will strengthen my roleplays with Crystal Beth, Dyami the Scout, and all of my future characters.

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Apr 5 2012, 12:38 AM
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McBadgere
post Apr 5 2012, 06:08 AM
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I have to admit, that while it's fine for Bethesda to go "This is our sandbox and we'll do what we want with it"...What they did to everyone that played the earlier games is just childish...



I did get really angry with it all about a week after the game came out...I was really depressed about it all...I may have been rude to people... sad.gif ...And I still feel really stupid about it...Because it is - when all is said and done - a game...However, it's also a world that we all devoted many hours and emotions to...So to see it all...As they have made it...Really depressed me...

Espescially as (from a personal point of view) the KOTN were just ignored and the only book in Skryim about them says nothing about what supposedly happened to them...

I said something on my thread about ignoring Skyrim altogether in my story (I think)...And both the legendary Haute Ecole Rider, on the thread, and Subrosa, somewhere else said, "Go for it. It's your story, do what you want."

Lore...Pfft... biggrin.gif ...Break it...*Shrug*...

As I touch on in my story...There's many universes out there...This is how all of the stories have the same events played out by all our characters...Containing the same people like Uriel Septim and Dagon and all that...Therefore, the lore is only as strong as you want it to be...And personally, the Lore is as confusing and contradictory as are real religion's... biggrin.gif ...
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Lady Saga
post Apr 5 2012, 02:33 PM
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I see. I'm not angry at Bethesda about this. It's the story. It's what happens, plenty of horrible things have happened on Earth, too. It just bummed me out last night as I was reading it.

QUOTE
Espescially as (from a personal point of view) the KOTN were just ignored and the only book in Skryim about them says nothing about what supposedly happened to them...


This is just weird, though. I've heard about this, that KotN aren't mentioned in Sky's books. That seems like a huge oversight.
.

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Apr 5 2012, 06:16 PM
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Grits
post Apr 5 2012, 05:09 PM
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I was book-flinging furious when I read the first Greg Keyes novel. (Thankfully it was a paperback. No one was harmed. tongue.gif ) Eventually I got used to it being a part of what happened. Still not happy about it, though. My ideas for Morrowind and Black Marsh will just take place in the thousands of years before those events. Actually, I’m getting ticked off just thinking about it again. Grrr!

I’ll pass along what I’ve been told: Lore serves your story, not the other way around. McB’s Knights stories give me a lot of inspiration to go my own way when it suits me, as well as his stories being so very enjoyable to read.


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Lady Saga
post Apr 5 2012, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 5 2012, 12:09 PM) *

I’ll pass along what I’ve been told: Lore serves your story, not the other way around.


I agree. I'm not going to change lore around to fit any of my stories, though, if that's what you're suggesting.
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SubRosa
post Apr 5 2012, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE(McBadgere @ Apr 5 2012, 01:08 AM) *

I have to admit, that while it's fine for Bethesda to go "This is our sandbox and we'll do what we want with it"...What they did to everyone that played the earlier games is just childish...



I did get really angry with it all about a week after the game came out...I was really depressed about it all...I may have been rude to people... sad.gif ...And I still feel really stupid about it...Because it is - when all is said and done - a game...However, it's also a world that we all devoted many hours and emotions to...So to see it all...As they have made it...Really depressed me...

Espescially as (from a personal point of view) the KOTN were just ignored and the only book in Skryim about them says nothing about what supposedly happened to them...

I said something on my thread about ignoring Skyrim altogether in my story (I think)...And both the legendary Haute Ecole Rider, on the thread, and Subrosa, somewhere else said, "Go for it. It's your story, do what you want."

Lore...Pfft... biggrin.gif ...Break it...*Shrug*...

As I touch on in my story...There's many universes out there...This is how all of the stories have the same events played out by all our characters...Containing the same people like Uriel Septim and Dagon and all that...Therefore, the lore is only as strong as you want it to be...And personally, the Lore is as confusing and contradictory as are real religion's... biggrin.gif ...

Bethesda's lore is more contradictory and confusing then any real religion or history, because they make no attempt to keep it consistent at all. In fact, they change it not only between games, but in the same game. I do not think that the people they hire to write the stuff have any idea of what was written before, or what others are writing at the same time. There is plainly no editor to keep it all straight and make sure it makes sense either. It is like hiring six different contractors to build one house. It is no wonder it is a disaster. Since they have no respect for their lore, there is no reason we should either.



QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 5 2012, 12:09 PM) *

I was book-flinging furious when I read the first Greg Keyes novel. (Thankfully it was a paperback. No one was harmed. tongue.gif ) Eventually I got used to it being a part of what happened. Still not happy about it, though. My ideas for Morrowind and Black Marsh will just take place in the thousands of years before those events. Actually, I’m getting ticked off just thinking about it again. Grrr!

I’ll pass along what I’ve been told: Lore serves your story, not the other way around. McB’s Knights stories give me a lot of inspiration to go my own way when it suits me, as well as his stories being so very enjoyable to read.

I think Bethesda destroyed Morrowind in a fit of pique, because of the snobbish and just plain obnoxious attitude so many Morrowind players have. Just ignore that crap, and tell the story you want to. If it does not fit their lore so what? Most of what they put out does not fit their lore either.





QUOTE(Lady Saga @ Apr 5 2012, 01:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 5 2012, 12:09 PM) *

I’ll pass along what I’ve been told: Lore serves your story, not the other way around.


I agree. I'm not going to change lore around to fit any of my stories, though, if that's what you're suggesting.

Go ahead and change it. Bethesda's lore is, how can I put this nicely, not very well done. There is no thought put into any of it, and no effort made on their own part to follow it. If you have a good story, go ahead and use it. Ignore, bend, or create whatever lore you want to back it up. That is what Bethesda does after all.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 5 2012, 06:54 PM


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McBadgere
post Apr 5 2012, 07:39 PM
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*Applauds Subrosa with great affection*...

Bravo!!!... biggrin.gif ...

Encore!!... biggrin.gif ...
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Lady Saga
post Apr 5 2012, 07:58 PM
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YOu know....but isn't this true about Earth as well? History books from my generation are gonna be different from those of my daughter's generation. They're always getting bits of history wrong, even here on Earth. And then they change portions of it during the next edition of books if they need to.

I don't know if anybody has ever noticed, but I often subtly change the way some of my characters spell their name. Eradi~Kate could also be known as EradiKate, for instance. Luci Ferria could be Luci Pheria. Some of my characters also are known by different names, as well. The Grey Wizard is known as "Beujok" by some, and Eradi~Kate is also known as Miss Terri. Ann Thraxx may or may not wind up being known as Renee Gade III.

I do this because as I write about my characters on the forums (especially in the Where are you Now threads), I'm pretending different writers are scribing up the stories. And mistakes are made. Some of these writers are mis-informed.

If Bethesda's lore is screwed up, perhaps this is also the case. They get stuff wrong, but after all, so have Earth's scribes, historians and story-tellers. Know what I mean? Inconsistencies are a part of it all.

.

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Apr 5 2012, 08:10 PM
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Lady Saga
post Apr 5 2012, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 5 2012, 01:53 PM) *

Go ahead and change it. Bethesda's lore is, how can I put this nicely, not very well done. ... Ignore, bend, or create whatever lore you want to back it up.


Well so far, I haven't seen any need to do this, so we're all good.

I just knew Cyrodiil itself isn't supposed to be as glorious as it was in the 3rd/early 4th era, I just wasn't sure how much of a change it's been thru by the time we get 200 years into the 4th era. Has the IC been destroyed? no. Has its traditional leadership of Councils and The Emperor been sacked? Yes. Is it still a functional city? Yes. Can I roleplay it that my characters therefore come from Cyrodiil in search of a better life? Better looting? A job? Absolutely.


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SubRosa
post Apr 5 2012, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(Lady Saga @ Apr 5 2012, 02:58 PM) *

YOu know....but isn't this true about Earth as well? History books from my generation are gonna be different from those of my daughter's generation. They're always getting bits of history wrong, even here on Earth. And then they change portions of it during the next edition of books if they need to.

If Bethesda's lore is screwed up, perhaps this is also the case. They get stuff wrong, but after all, so have Earth's scribes, historians and story-tellers. Know what I mean? Inconsistencies are a part of it all.

I would not mind that. In fact I like it. There are some books in the game which were written with a very clear bias, like the Talos Mistake, or the Bear of Markarth. It is nice seeing that sort of thing, where one side warps history to suit their political agenda. As you said, that is how things are in the real world.

But it is more then that with Bethesda. Take Mankar Camoran, whose mother and father were Bosmer. But somehow he is an Altmer? He was born at the end of the reign of Camoran Usurper (the Usurper being his dad). But we are also told in the main quest that his writings are contemporary with the life of Tiber Septim, which was centuries earlier. So then are we to believe that he must have somehow traveled back in time, and changed races while it was at it?

How do you make such glaring mistakes with your master villain? That's like us being told that Darth Vader was a Jawa, and that he was born after Luke blew up the death star. Mankar Camoran was important enough for Bethesda to shell out big bucks to pay Terence Stamp to do his voice. But he was not important enough for them to bother getting his race and background correct? This is why I say Bethesda has no respect for the lore it creates.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 5 2012, 08:36 PM


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McBadgere
post Apr 5 2012, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE(Lady Saga @ Apr 5 2012, 08:04 PM) *

Well so far, I haven't seen any need to do this, so we're all good.



Well, my problem was that I had this bunch of Knights running around that had just saved Cyrodiil from Mehrunes Dagon...And basically in 200 years they didn't exist...And so if they did exist, how would any of the invasion stuff happen? Because my Knights wouldn't let it happen...And as one of the in-game Knights is Altmer, he could conceivably still be alive 200 years later...Oh, and Brellin the Bosmer...Also could be alive...

You see what I'm getting at?...

From my point of view...Not only did the Greg Keyes books make for a horrible idea...The whole Thalmor thing seemed, as Jack Cloudy pointed out to me, completely arbitary...An "oh look a huge army to wipe out what I accomplished with my game"...Which my Knights, wouldn't let happen...

My idea for the KOTN was basically like the Templars...Without the absolute devotion to the point of misogeny, celebacy and pauper-ness...And the Templars became huge...The biggest thing...And yes, 200 years later they were destroyed...But I said like...

I had to completely change the history as written by Bethesda to make myself happy and to wrestle the story away from what is, to what I want...And this is entirely the ONLY reason I can now play Skyrim...

Still agreeing with Subrosa...

I know there are those here who will vehemenently side with your good self though LS... biggrin.gif ...

Not that there's sides...It's just a chat...Just...Ach... laugh.gif ...
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Lady Saga
post Apr 5 2012, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 5 2012, 03:30 PM) *

*snip*


Those are mistakes for sure. They are big mistakes, but I'm not "blaming" Bethesda for them. It is possible a real-life historian on Earth could have made a glaring mistake of the same magnitude, and for eons nobody knows the difference. It took awhile for people to realize some of Hitler's ancestry was Jewish, for instance. We were never taught this when I was in school. Not that some historian screwed up by not getting this into the original history books after WWII; my point is mistakes and inconsistencies can and do happen.

I wish my memory were better sometimes. There are things I've heard about throughout my life. About the Civil War here in America, about Africa. About Constantiople. About this about that, where history was a certain way, and then someone or some peoples do some better research only to discover the original historians got it all wrong...

So I'm not blaming Bethesda en masse. I'm blaming the "historian" who screwed up when he was writing about Mankar Cameron before I'd blame Bethesda as a whole. And look...its not like I'm blindly defending Beth, here, okay? There's stuff I actually do get mad about, like the dumbed-down hotkey system in Skyrim. But screwed up lore? I can live with it. It's possible and plausible, the way I see it, especially in a roleplay sense, that some "scribe" somewhere just didn't get the story right..

This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Apr 5 2012, 09:44 PM
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