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> Fallout76, Um... yeah.
Winter Wolf
post Nov 23 2018, 04:10 AM
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Yeah, this sounds really bad. Perhaps for ES I do not mind the idea but for Fallout, no thanks.

The game should always just be about SP. That is a true Fallout to me. A lone, bleak wasteland stretches out before you, civilization has collapsed and you are down to a few remaining bullets. If Beth really wanted us to play in a group then gives us a proper faction system and allow us to join the raiders/slavers and play an evil character instead.

I would have preferred to have a Fallout game made by Obsidian in this 2-3 year period. But that is wishful thinking...


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Renee
post Nov 23 2018, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE(Winter Wolf @ Nov 22 2018, 10:10 PM) *

The game should always just be about SP.

You haven't been to the new forums for awhile, eh? My gosh it is constant demands for multiplayer. Every day every hour. Doesn't surprise me they went this route. And it's not just for Fallout, it's for ALL Bethesda games. There are people demanding Beth remaster Daggerfall, and then make it into an MMO. :facepalm:

That being said, I'm off to visit the new forums now! panic.gif Curiosity is piquing, and all that.



This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 23 2018, 01:53 PM
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Winter Wolf
post Nov 25 2018, 05:51 AM
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I read this in the comments at ign-

58 hours in and I'm ready to stop playing.

Fallout 3 removed the Turn-Based Combat.
Fallout: New Vegas removed Bethesda's Relevancy as a development team.
Fallout 4 removed Roleplaying.
Fallout 76 removed Story and NPCs.

...can't wait to see what they remove next.

I guess that says everything. laugh.gif


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Renee
post Nov 26 2018, 02:01 PM
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"Fallout 4 removed roleplaying" ???.... hmm...

Well, I've done a lot of reading over in the new forums, and it's not all bad, though it does seem worse than usual. Many people like the game as-is though. Can somebody post an example of a review they've read which outlines why it's so horrible?
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RaderOfTheLostArk
post Nov 26 2018, 11:21 PM
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QUOTE(Winter Wolf @ Nov 24 2018, 11:51 PM) *

Fallout 4 removed Roleplaying.


Please don't take this as me attacking you (I don't know how much you agree with that commenter anyway), but I loathe the argument that Fallout 4 is not a roleplaying game. It's the same that many people say about Skyrim, or Oblivion, or even Morrowind if you dig deep enough. It is absolutely a roleplaying game. If you want to argue that it isn't what an RPG should be or that it doesn't do RPG mechanics as well as other games, that's one thing. But I find the vast majority of the time that arguments about RPGs not actually being RPGs are because people don't like the game in the first place.

This post has been edited by RaderOfTheLostArk: Nov 26 2018, 11:21 PM


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Renee
post Nov 26 2018, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE(RaderOfTheLostArk @ Nov 26 2018, 05:21 PM) *

. It's the same that many people say about Skyrim, or Oblivion, or even Morrowind if you dig deep enough. It is absolutely a roleplaying game.


Roleplaying is such a pliable term, you know? Personally, I could roleplay blocks of wood if I got in the mood!

Because to me, this term == playing a role. But not just any role, it's playing a role I want to play, with the character(s) I want to be with. That is how I define it, I know everyone is different..I want to design my own character, and have a compelling world for him or her to be in. That is the focus of the game, not the action, not the quests, not the stats or numbers.

One could argue "well you play a role in Tomb Raider as Lara Croft, by definition, Tomb Raider is therefore an RPG," and I would say "no" to this. nono.gif Because in Tomb Raider, the focus of the game is on the action, the flips, the twirls, and all the tings Lara does. If I wanted Lara to be (let's say) a flower picker, who does nothing but collect ingredients (my idea, not the devs) if I want to play a role as a flower-picker in Tomb Raider, this is not the focus of the game.

But in any Bethesda game I've played so far, I can create a flower-picker if I want (and I have), who does not get involved in combat or pre-written quests.

Back in my tabletop days, for me this was the 1980s, there were two main groups of people when it came to roleplaying games. Some preferred painted figureines (my group did). Obviously, gaming with a bunch of more-evolved chess pieces takes a lot of imagination. You can't move these pieces around, roll dice, and then not imagine what just happened, if a troll ambushed your party or if you ambushed the troll or whatever. That's where the term roleplaying comes in, I suppose.

The other main group of people would not usually use figures, instead they'd ACT out their parts. They'd sit around a table and speak in these silly accents, trying to sound British or whatever. laugh.gif Me and a friend tried gaming with this group one time, and once was enough!

But my point is even back then, I remember hearing one group accusing the other of "not truly roleplaying." So when we hear of FO4 not being an RPG, or Oblivion, or even Morrowind, this sort of argument is not new. smile.gif

Thank you. Time for some eggnog. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 27 2018, 01:42 PM
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hazmick
post Nov 27 2018, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE(RaderOfTheLostArk @ Nov 26 2018, 10:21 PM) *

QUOTE(Winter Wolf @ Nov 24 2018, 11:51 PM) *

Fallout 4 removed Roleplaying.


Please don't take this as me attacking you (I don't know how much you agree with that commenter anyway), but I loathe the argument that Fallout 4 is not a roleplaying game. It's the same that many people say about Skyrim, or Oblivion, or even Morrowind if you dig deep enough. It is absolutely a roleplaying game. If you want to argue that it isn't what an RPG should be or that it doesn't do RPG mechanics as well as other games, that's one thing. But I find the vast majority of the time that arguments about RPGs not actually being RPGs are because people don't like the game in the first place.


I absolutely agree with your main point, and FO4 is absolutely a role playing game, but I think the main issues that RPers had with the game was the first portion in which your character is told that they're married and have a child - immediately setting your character into a specific slot. Compared to previous Bethesda games where your characters aren't given pre-existing backstories of too much consequence, FO3 says you have a father and NV says you're a courier - much easier to work into RP.

Also having a voiced character.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Nov 27 2018, 03:22 AM
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Khajiit believes an alternate start mod is a *must* for Fallout4. You can work with the story BGS set up for you, but it is definitely the most restrictive story they’ve ever put into a game.


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Lopov
post Nov 27 2018, 11:37 AM
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Although FO4 forces a certain backstory upon you, it's the same in both FO3 and New Vegas. And it was the same in original Fallout(s). In FO3 you lived in a fixed place, and have fixed parents, etc. In New Vegas you're a courier and some of your past deeds (Lonesome Road) are forced upon you, also during some dialogues you have an option to reveal some of your past (like when talking to the Drifter between the 188 and Novac, etc). So I don't think that FO4 does it any differently, except that they added a voice character this time. Compared to New Vegas, though, they made a dialogue system much more "poor", considering how many options to answer you have in New Vegas. But nonetheless, I don't find FO4 any less of a RPG than previous Fallout(s).


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Renee
post Nov 27 2018, 01:53 PM
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The key thing about Bethesda games and Fallouts is that yes they start off with a fixed beginning. Even in Morrowind we start as a prisoner, for instance. Arena does the same. And Daggerfall. Daggerfall is supposed to be the pinnacle of roleplaying videogames, yet we start with a fixed beginning, branded as a prisoner, forced into the role as a prisoner.

But the main thing Beth does is it doesn't force us to stay on those beginning paths. I know well, because before I discovered Oblivion I played a lot of games in which I had no other options at all, but to stay on whatever path the devs laid out for me.

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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Nov 27 2018, 04:25 PM
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Well Fallout4 does try to force you on the path set by the intro. You can hardly talk to anyone in the biggest settlement without your character asking about your missing child, which if you are playing a concerned parent that makes sense. There’s only one way to play that though. You can’t be the disinterested parent who just wants to start over. This one feels we should have been given the option to forget about the kid and just live out our life in this new environment, but that’s hard to do when your character is telling random strangers all about their problem, which we aren’t supposed to be concerned about.

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Nov 27 2018, 04:28 PM


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Renee
post Nov 27 2018, 04:48 PM
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Yeah I hear ya, Khajiit.

Back on topic: has anyone read any reviews of 76 which they'd like to share? I know I can just search for one, but I want to find something somebody here has digested.
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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Nov 27 2018, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE(Renee @ Nov 27 2018, 09:48 AM) *

Yeah I hear ya, Khajiit.

Back on topic: has anyone read any reviews of 76 which they'd like to share? I know I can just search for one, but I want to find something somebody here has digested.

Khajiit has not. This one just isn’t interested in this game.


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hazmick
post Nov 27 2018, 11:53 PM
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Jim Sterling and Angry Joe have both done some good videos on it, shared their thoughts and experiences.


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Renee
post Nov 30 2018, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE(hazmick @ Nov 27 2018, 05:53 PM) *

Jim Sterling and Angry Joe have both done some good videos on it, shared their thoughts and experiences.

Thanks!

Angry Joe though.... he's always so angry! laugh.gif I'll have a look at Sterling's review if I can find it.

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mirocu
post Nov 30 2018, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE(Winter Wolf @ Nov 25 2018, 05:51 AM) *

I read this in the comments at ign-

58 hours in and I'm ready to stop playing.

Fallout 3 removed the Turn-Based Combat.
Fallout: New Vegas removed Bethesda's Relevancy as a development team.
Fallout 4 removed Roleplaying.
Fallout 76 removed Story and NPCs.

...can't wait to see what they remove next.

I guess that says everything. laugh.gif

Progress = removing things tongue.gif


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SubRosa
post Nov 30 2018, 09:25 PM
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I am now seeing memes about 500 Atoms, so I am guessing that Bethesda just did something stupid with Fallout 76,


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Nov 30 2018, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Nov 30 2018, 02:25 PM) *

I am now seeing memes about 500 Atoms, so I am guessing that Bethesda just did something stupid with Fallout 76,

Yeah, they advertised a canvas bag to carry the stupid power armor helmet that came with the collector’s edition but then the bag that cane with it was made of nylon so people were pissed. In response Bethesda at first said they couldn’t do anything about but then when the complaints escalated they issued people 500 atoms (which are live electronic currency for micro transactions), which amounts to about 5 real life dollars. Sad.


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SubRosa
post Nov 30 2018, 10:04 PM
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IPB Image


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Nov 30 2018, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Nov 30 2018, 03:04 PM) *

IPB Image

Indeed. It’s like they learned nothing from the HAF (Horse Armour Fiasco).


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