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Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 4 2005, 07:31 PM

(originaly posted on official ES forums by me)
[quote]Well Chances are they will have some sort of way, probably (or maby) through scripting, to put force in a direction (because of havock), as it would have numerouse applications in the game.

So Boats Float, right?

If you've played HL2, you see that certain things float, and move if force is aplied to one side, but in a more fluid, sliding motion than if they were on the ground (just like in real life).

So the whole idea is to simply script somthing so that it aplies force to part of a boat, and let havock do the rest. This would probably only work for small boats, nothing larger than a longboat.

Still, it's anough to give wannabe pirates like myself a hell of a time.[/quote]

OK, I might actualy do this one, I just gotta learn how to apply force in a game enviroment. I have one question:

Is it most likely to be s cript comand or somthing else? I probably will do it ifit's a script comand, and might get creative if it's somthing else (sheep powered water wheel anyone?) But I think I might just to this, as long as I use stock ship modles.

What do you guys think?

Posted by: Chumbaniya Jun 4 2005, 07:52 PM

[quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas](originaly posted on official ES forums by me)
[quote]Well Chances are they will have some sort of way, probably (or maby) through scripting, to put force in a direction (because of havock), as it would have numerouse applications in the game.

So Boats Float, right?

If you've played HL2, you see that certain things float, and move if force is aplied to one side, but in a more fluid, sliding motion than if they were on the ground (just like in real life).

So the whole idea is to simply script somthing so that it aplies force to part of a boat, and let havock do the rest. This would probably only work for small boats, nothing larger than a longboat.

Still, it's anough to give wannabe pirates like myself a hell of a time.[/quote]

OK, I might actualy do this one, I just gotta learn how to apply force in a game enviroment. I have one question:

Is it most likely to be s cript comand or somthing else? I probably will do it ifit's a script comand, and might get creative if it's somthing else (sheep powered water wheel anyone?) But I think I might just to this, as long as I use stock ship modles.

What do you guys think?[/quote]

Sounds like a good idea. Working boats would be a great addition.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 4 2005, 07:54 PM

One possible problem relating to Havok (which sort of annoys me after spending considerable time with Garry's Mod) is that while you have all the physics and buoyancy, in HL2 at least, the player always seems to correspond to slightly different laws of physics and therefore lack any sort of friction whatsoever. Basically, anything you put under yourself and move tends to slide out from under your feet, unless you get pushed by something. So you might have to make the character rig themselves to the deck if you want to move the ship. Pretty much like Fishing Academy, in retrospect.

That said, I'll be the first to use the scripting in your mod to create a floating airship

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 4 2005, 08:15 PM

[quote=9of9]One possible problem relating to Havok (which sort of annoys me after spending considerable time with Garry's Mod) is that while you have all the physics and buoyancy, in HL2 at least, the player always seems to correspond to slightly different laws of physics and therefore lack any sort of friction whatsoever. Basically, anything you put under yourself and move tends to slide out from under your feet, unless you get pushed by something. So you might have to make the character rig themselves to the deck if you want to move the ship. Pretty much like Fishing Academy, in retrospect.

That said, I'll be the first to use the scripting in your mod to create a floating airship [/quote]

Errr...How would you do that do that? I was thinking a ship in the water...Though a sheep catipult would be fun to do.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 4 2005, 11:41 PM

Well, once you figure out how to make it so that the player can make a self propelled, steerable ship that can swim in the water and - most importantly - how to get forces to act on it at will (propulsion, steering etc.) its only a matter of tweaking to get one to stay up in the air. Ideally, some sort of negative weight value would give us something floaty, but otherwise something could be figured out to make it fly (like maybe a script that changes the upthrust values in accordance with altitude... by placing some sort of upward force towards the top of the balloon and a self adjusting altitude script you could probably make the ballon bob up and down around the desired height).

The good thing about these ships would be that, unlike the Fishing Academy mod, you could also place items on them (and maybe people, if the whole frictionless thing is somehow resolved) without them sliding off when the object moves due to Havok (as well as having them be thrown overboard when a particularly large wave hits the ship!)

I want sea... with waves :shocked:

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 5 2005, 03:37 AM

[quote=9of9]Well, once you figure out how to make it so that the player can make a self propelled, steerable ship that can swim in the water and - most importantly - how to get forces to act on it at will (propulsion, steering etc.) its only a matter of tweaking to get one to stay up in the air. Ideally, some sort of negative weight value would give us something floaty, but otherwise something could be figured out to make it fly (like maybe a script that changes the upthrust values in accordance with altitude... by placing some sort of upward force towards the top of the balloon and a self adjusting altitude script you could probably make the ballon bob up and down around the desired height).

The good thing about these ships would be that, unlike the Fishing Academy mod, you could also place items on them (and maybe people, if the whole frictionless thing is somehow resolved) without them sliding off when the object moves due to Havok (as well as having them be thrown overboard when a particularly large wave hits the ship!)

I want sea... with waves :shocked:[/quote]

Well I have kindof a messy answer to the friction bit:

doors and rooms

Sure, everything might get jumbled, but imagine having a magical scrib that re- organizes everything with a simple comand! (just have scrib with the right dialoug options and a script that re-positions the object)

The player could stay in an invisible case.

Also we might have "Sticky" comand...Somthing like Gary's mod for HL2 (just downloaded it, load of fun, can you say combign chorusline?? what about floating chain of The G Man?)

Other thing (probably easier) is to just have a door linking to an interior cell, with random slight wave movement. This wouldn't feal anywhere as good, but it would do the trick neater.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 5 2005, 11:46 AM

Nah, you don't need the scrib - as I said, the items are fine, as long as Havok holds up they should do precisely what they're meant to do and if they get thrown overbaord, that's fine

The main problem is the player and NPCs (after all, it would be nice to have a crew), I suppose it is possible to put an inviso box around the player or just make them stick to the ship (like in Fishing Academy) but it just sort of takes away.. it would be nice to walk about the deck of the ship whilst you set it to sail straight ahead But if there's no other way, then... well, inviso box it is.

The interior is a whole other cookie.

Posted by: Konradude Jun 5 2005, 12:33 PM

Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 5 2005, 12:41 PM

[quote=9of9]Nah, you don't need the scrib - as I said, the items are fine, as long as Havok holds up they should do precisely what they're meant to do and if they get thrown overbaord, that's fine

The main problem is the player and NPCs (after all, it would be nice to have a crew), I suppose it is possible to put an inviso box around the player or just make them stick to the ship (like in Fishing Academy) but it just sort of takes away.. it would be nice to walk about the deck of the ship whilst you set it to sail straight ahead But if there's no other way, then... well, inviso box it is.

The interior is a whole other cookie.[/quote]

I guess that would work. Maby oblivion will be the first game to actualy get player friction right, remember, they're modifying Havock....course maby not.

[quote]Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.[/quote]

I know, Thats what I was thinking originaly, nothing larger than a longboat.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 5 2005, 01:04 PM

[quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas]

[quote]Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.[/quote]

I know, Thats what I was thinking originaly, nothing larger than a longboat.[/quote]

We can start off with a small fishing boat or yacht and work up from there. Once something works, it shouldn't be that hard to get something much larger to work But for experimenting, it probably would be easier to use something small I suppose.

Interiors are the least hard thing to do anyway, so that at least shouldn't be a problem...

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 5 2005, 01:27 PM

[quote=9of9][quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas]

[quote]Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.[/quote]

I know, Thats what I was thinking originaly, nothing larger than a longboat.[/quote]

We can start off with a small fishing boat or yacht and work up from there. Once something works, it shouldn't be that hard to get something much larger to work But for experimenting, it probably would be easier to use something small I suppose.

Interiors are the least hard thing to do anyway, so that at least shouldn't be a problem...[/quote]

Well the big problem is we don't know if boats will displace the water. Most boats with interiors sink nicely into the water, and their interior is in their hull.

I think a stock rowboat would be easiest to start with, it sits shallowely in the water, the back of it has a larger surface area, and it's pretty stable.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 5 2005, 02:34 PM

Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard!

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 5 2005, 03:19 PM

[quote=9of9]Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard![/quote]

Well the problem with that is getting the thing to move and sway. I mean I supose you could, but it would feal detached from the outside of the boat.

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 5 2005, 08:33 PM

In the Video Interview he said that we could board boats...What he means by that i have no idea but if he means we can actually ride a boat... then i think that problem is already solved.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 5 2005, 08:41 PM

[quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas][quote=9of9]Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard![/quote]

Well the problem with that is getting the thing to move and sway. I mean I supose you could, but it would feal detached from the outside of the boat.[/quote]

True... I suppose if the entire interior is one object (like in Morrowind) it would alright - you could make it sway a bit and then the clutter would follow (which was the main reason against it, in Morrowind) although you'd still have problems with making all the larger, non-clutter, objects follow the swaying - like doors, hammocks etc.

Its usually best done by simply making the player's view sway instead (a camera trick, basically), but chances are the scripting system won't let us go quite that far.

jonajosa: Could well be! Although I did take him to mean boarding much in the same way as you could in Morrowind, I suppose they might well the boats actually float properly in the water (and perhaps even be steerable) in Oblivion just as they are

In which case it would be just the airship that would pose the problem (unless they have one of those too... )

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 5 2005, 08:48 PM

[quote=9of9][quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas][quote=9of9]Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard![/quote]

Well the problem with that is getting the thing to move and sway. I mean I supose you could, but it would feal detached from the outside of the boat.[/quote]

True... I suppose if the entire interior is one object (like in Morrowind) it would alright - you could make it sway a bit and then the clutter would follow (which was the main reason against it, in Morrowind) although you'd still have problems with making all the larger, non-clutter, objects follow the swaying - like doors, hammocks etc.

Its usually best done by simply making the player's view sway instead (a camera trick, basically), but chances are the scripting system won't let us go quite that far.

jonajosa: Could well be! Although I did take him to mean boarding much in the same way as you could in Morrowind, I suppose they might well the boats actually float properly in the water (and perhaps even be steerable) in Oblivion just as they are

In which case it would be just the airship that would pose the problem (unless they have one of those too... )[/quote]

Well I guess it realy dosn't have to be as immersive as if we were actualy making the game, we see all kinds of stand-in style things in mods, and they usualy work.

Posted by: DoomedOne Jun 6 2005, 01:57 AM

I'll be the fiurst to create a joinable pirate crew.

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 8 2005, 10:52 PM

[quote=DoomedOne]I'll be the fiurst to create a joinable pirate crew.[/quote]

Cool Idea, River Pirates or classic Pirates? I personaly would do river pirates, as there are more rivers on cyrodil than ocean front, and Open longboats will be much easier to do than galleons, schooners, and/or frigates.

Posted by: Channler Jun 23 2005, 09:52 PM

[quote=9of9]
In which case it would be just the airship that would pose the problem (unless they have one of those too... )[/quote]

Hmm.. We just need to get on deciphering(SP) the Dwemer (OMG I cant spell) airship plans now

Posted by: Konradude Jun 23 2005, 10:51 PM

What's wrong with Dwemer?

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 25 2005, 07:25 PM

[quote=Channler][quote=9of9]
In which case it would be just the airship that would pose the problem (unless they have one of those too... )[/quote]

Hmm.. We just need to get on deciphering(SP) the Dwemer (OMG I cant spell) airship plans now[/quote]

Be a cool quest style thing. Have it so you get afew ripped up peices of the dwemer airship plans and you have to find a bunch of stuff scattered across the land, and then you get a dwemer airship....

Posted by: Channler Jun 25 2005, 11:02 PM

Yea, that would be pretty cool..

I'd like to start getting into modding.. Not sure where to start though

Posted by: Khaan Jun 26 2005, 03:13 PM

That would be cool.

Once youd finished it you could take rocks up in it and kill people from miles high. :lmao:

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 29 2005, 12:30 AM

[quote=Channler]Yea, that would be pretty cool..

I'd like to start getting into modding.. Not sure where to start though [/quote]

Do you have morrowind?

If so just make an island with a house or two on it. Simply get used to dragging stuff around, rotating, ect... That will be the same in oblivion. Learn to conect two cells, and change an item's size.

Also give dialoug a try, as I think it will be similar, and similer systems (in terms of variables and options, ect...) will be used for quests and AI.

Screw around with the new CS once you get it, read any tutorials that are availible.

If you want to work on an Oblivion mod that will be big and such, and just want to take it easy, give me an PM some time, I'm doing a huge underground tunnel network mod (think a TES flavored underdark), and the more people the better (more people=more tunnels=more quests=less suckiness)

Posted by: Channler Jun 29 2005, 04:42 AM

I might take you up on your offer, in fact I'm pretty bored right now so I might go play around in the editor..

BTW Why when i load tribunal in the editor does it pop up with these message box's about text?

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 30 2005, 12:54 AM

[quote=Channler]I might take you up on your offer, in fact I'm pretty bored right now so I might go play around in the editor..

BTW Why when i load tribunal in the editor does it pop up with these message box's about text?[/quote]

Nothing realy. BM and Tribunal conflict with each other, so each pop-up is a dialouge conflict. Nothing you need to worry about unless your heavily modifying quest dialoug for bloodmoon/tribunal. Just click "OK" through them and your fine.

BTW, there are about 500 of them, so get ready for alot of clicking

Posted by: Channler Jun 30 2005, 01:44 AM

Really...

So far I've made an island with a Manor on it and several houses.. A dock and two people to transport you back and forth..

Oh and two guards

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jun 30 2005, 10:22 PM

[quote=Channler]Really...

So far I've made an island with a Manor on it and several houses.. A dock and two people to transport you back and forth..

Oh and two guards[/quote]

Good start. Have you tryed giving them dialouge? Thats the tricky part...

Did you do the house interiors yet?

Posted by: Chumbaniya Jun 30 2005, 10:49 PM

[quote=Channler]Really...

So far I've made an island with a Manor on it and several houses.. A dock and two people to transport you back and forth..

Oh and two guards[/quote]

That's pretty much exactly how far I've got when experimenting with the CS. I've tried a bit of dialogue too, but I didn't quite manage to get a dialogue allowing faction-joining.

Oh, and Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas (mind if I call you SDIV? I'm a lazy typist) if you want a (very) casual worker on that mod idea of yours, I'd be happy to help. I can't make a full sized decent mod on my own, and I'm too lazy to do serious work with others, but if you want a spot of help with general modding, (some) artwork, storyline/dialogue and (possibly) music, just PM me.

Posted by: Channler Jun 30 2005, 11:15 PM

[quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas]

Good start. Have you tryed giving them dialouge? Thats the tricky part...

Did you do the house interiors yet?[/quote]

Err well I'm trying, someone posted a link to some sort of dialouge tutorial but the lettering is so small its hard to read and comprehend at the same time.

Last night I was working on the interior of the manor.. only prob I got now is when I test the mod my NPC's seemed to learn how to replicate themselves... Odd no?

Oh is there an easier way to search through the CS to find certain "blocks"? Blocks meaning walls and what not. heh I'm havin a hard time findin the right peices to make an inside to an imperial building..

But I'm not gonna be able to work on it for about 10+ days cause I'm going to a special school (no not for the mentally challanged)

Posted by: Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas Jul 3 2005, 09:40 PM

[quote=Channler][quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas]

Good start. Have you tryed giving them dialouge? Thats the tricky part...

Did you do the house interiors yet?[/quote]

Err well I'm trying, someone posted a link to some sort of dialouge tutorial but the lettering is so small its hard to read and comprehend at the same time.

Last night I was working on the interior of the manor.. only prob I got now is when I test the mod my NPC's seemed to learn how to replicate themselves... Odd no?

Oh is there an easier way to search through the CS to find certain "blocks"? Blocks meaning walls and what not. heh I'm havin a hard time findin the right peices to make an inside to an imperial building..

But I'm not gonna be able to work on it for about 10+ days cause I'm going to a special school (no not for the mentally challanged)[/quote]

Dialoug turorials...Errr..yeah...dialoug is annoying...

Always search by ID, and you can usualy find what your looking for. Some times they'll have large and small versions of interiors, which is usualy indicated by a "s" or an "l" within the ID. My CS isn't working right now, so I can't realy give any specific examples. I will say that (for the most part) all the large peices within a set are usualy at the begining or the end, but their never mixed. The miscalaninouse acessories and things that conect the two sizes are usualy in the middle or at the end.

Oh yeah:

ex =exteior
in =interior
furn =furniture
f =flora/plants
terrain= terrain

Posted by: Toidi.Loof Mar 28 2006, 07:43 PM

Character controlled boats wont be that usefull untill people start creating mods with islands. I will be making a mod with islands so hopefully i can help, but it WONT BE FINISHED FOR AGES!

The too be creater of Islands of Kavar

Posted by: Lechuck Mar 29 2006, 10:48 AM

Dont know if you've considered this, but if you ride a horse into the water, guess what, it paddles.

Sounds like a boat to me

Posted by: Marxist ßastard Mar 29 2006, 11:17 AM

The horse is actually the primary reason why I would want, say, a raft -- even my Black Horse moves at a snail's pace through water.

Posted by: dougaljb Mar 29 2006, 11:50 AM

What with wind now being a more 'real' part of the game. It would be cool for someone to mod a boat that one actually had to 'sail' as opposed to 'drive'.
When i finish my exams in summer, if no one has given it a decent go i may well try.

Posted by: B-rat Mar 30 2006, 02:30 PM

i think some kind of effect could be made like this:
have the airship be made from several different models,
and have one of those models inside the airships hull or something,
the actual one not the interior cell thingy, and have it fire some spell
really fast up at the hull so it gets sort of continuously bumped upward,
and script some sort of altitude responce to how fast the spells are
shot up at the hull...

as for the steering system, the same thing could be used in a different direction
and scripted to respond to the rotation of another item (say .. a steering wheel)

it seems quite possible to me...
just a bit of difficult scripting..

Posted by: Lechuck Apr 1 2006, 01:47 AM

Well, what I mean is:

maybe it is possible to take a horse, change its model to that of a boat & tweak its speed in water?

How much of the horse system is adjustable?

I've seen objects floating on the water surface, so it should be quite possible to make the boat float.

I cant imagine the weather is connected with havok, so would probably have to find another form of propulsion. I remember from one of the last countdown vids, the player used some magical attack that acted like a bomb blowing the 2 beasts into the air. Maybe the boat could cast this type of spell in varying magnitudes at the rear of the boat to push the boat forward, then use the standard horse steering.

I am relatively new to the CS, so not sure how much if any of this is possible, would be nice to hear the oppinions of an experienced scripter on this subject.

Posted by: B-rat Apr 1 2006, 08:23 AM

dude, you totally stole my idea with the spell...

Posted by: Lechuck Apr 3 2006, 02:13 AM

hehe, I think its more a case of "Great minds... Think alike"

Posted by: Hanz baby Jun 10 2006, 04:31 AM

dude i think they hav/will this mod on the offical website

Posted by: lev_the_devil Jun 12 2006, 12:48 AM

someone did make a working ship mod. it's a big ship with an attatched rowboat, it's a little glitchy, and the movement isn't very boatlike, but it does work. not anywhere cool to go with it yet, and as far as i know, no way to put anyone else on the boat. but it has an interior and everything.

i'd like to see either a future tes game or mod that has a vast archipelego, no fast travel, and a variety of boats you can purchase, as well as npc's to hire as crew. basically you need x number of crew members to run the ship, a navigator that you would talk to and say, plot dots along the map to show the course, then you'd be able to just sit back while the ship sails, maybe bring along some sort of trainer, or training devices so during the voyage you could knock up your blade skill.
and other ships out in the water that you could hail if you get close enough, and of course pirates...basically bandits on ships.
and distant islands with powerful items gaurded by even more powerful creatures.

maybe add in a mod to make some items high demand items on certain islands so you can purchase say 12 crates of apples from island a and sell 'em on island b for a hefty profit.

dare to dream, eh?

Posted by: hunter14 Jun 19 2006, 04:42 AM

the ship sounds good to me.

Ps u guys are really smart

Posted by: Ibis Jun 19 2006, 06:26 AM

Dwemer were back in Vvardenfell....

I think if you made a simple interior for a boat (I won't say ship) and gave it a script like Sign_Rotate, that sways things in Morrowind ... you could also attach the same script to all the few major items you put in the interior, and they would all sway in unison.

I liked the Sign_Rotate script, I once made a tiered water fountain that looked like the water really moved because I had wine bottles chilling in the fountain and gave them a Sign_Rotate script. So everything will sway together when you do that.

The Fishing Academy scripting could probably be adapted to a boat in Oblivion to allow the player to control the boat, that was cool. I will join Channler's river pirates ... arghh, he better allow women or he is in big trouble!

Concerning the airship idea, I used to have an airplane mod for Morrowind. Does anyone remember that? You had to wear this pair of pilot's trousers to fly the plane, so I think it was actually scripted like - you were wearing the plane mesh as a garment and you yourself were flying by use of the levitation spell in Morrowind. But I'm not sure that's how they made it. But it was fun. Maybe the airship could be done somehow like that, except there is no levitation spell in Obliv.