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> Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
Acadian
post Apr 24 2015, 03:45 AM
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Gstaff, of Bethesda, announced on the Bethesda forum that Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods. Here's the thread.

To say the reaction there has been underwhelming is a massive understatement. If I spend more than a moment pondering unintended consequences and pitfalls, I’m afraid I must agree with the ominous implications this has for the future of modding. A ton of posts on that thread already beat up the subject pretty well.

I confess I prefer as little to do with Steam as possible and have never touched their 'workshop'. I get my mods from Nexus, but the implications are disturbing - even for private hobby modders. Naturally, Steam is taking a big cut of all proceeds. Does this mean that for future games, the CK/CS will only be made available to 'for profit' Steam workshoppers? This seems to validate the concerns many of us have about Steam and their ability to control what you thought you paid for.


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ghastley
post Apr 24 2015, 03:55 AM
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As I already mentioned on the Mods thread at Bethsoft my other worry is that anything I produce will be copied and sold as someone else's work. It will be my responsibility to watch their site and complain if anyone does so. as they won't do anything on their own. Given their lack of reaction to complaints when it was free, and the fact that they'll lose money by taking my side ...

I don't think we'll ever see the CK unavailable without contributions to their stock of mods, as the process has to start with downloading that, but it might come with a "no upload elsewhere" clause in the EULA. Similarly, I don't (yet) see how they'll prevent us using mods that didn't come from Steam, or we'd never be able to develop new ones for them. But I do expect some action to try and eliminate the free completion from the Nexus.


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mirocu
post Apr 24 2015, 09:29 AM
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This is why I never support Steam or anything like it; even if they don´t do anything to begin with, they can control the purchase you made, effectively turning your purchase into a rental which it really was to begin with anyway.


Eventually, if this gets a good foothold, they can criminalize the whole free modding community, forcing you to pay even for unofficial patches that are essential or other mods that helps with problems like the abomb. While some point and laugh and call it a conspiracy theory, I don´t laugh particularly loud. Step by step they take away what is rightfully ours and because they do it step by step, many don´t see the full picture before it´s too late.

This post has been edited by mirocu: Apr 24 2015, 09:37 AM


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Grits
post Apr 24 2015, 10:30 AM
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Well, the other shoe has dropped. This explains some of the activity last week on the Nexus from mod authors who had paid new versions of their mods about to be released. Chesko wrote an open letter to the community that can be found here: Link. I think it’s worth the time to read it.

Mod theft is certainly a concern, since the attention will go toward trying to control people who are pirating the paid mods rather than defending the folks who are not profit sources. Though as long as mods are offered for free, I wonder how many idiots will pay first without searching for a free version. It seems that a good defense against theft is to continue to offer free mods.

I’m most concerned about what will happen to the spirit of various modding communities. I’ve benefited tremendously from people selflessly offering classes, advice, and resources in the interest of encouraging standards among new modders. Now that everyone is a potential competitor, it does seem like the sky is falling on that.

The thing is, though, this has happened. It will take time for the market to settle. Paying for mods certainly helps clarify which ones are actually “essential.” The thing that makes me palm my face the most is the cheerful advice on Steam to try new mods for 24 hours before you buy them, and the bundles for sale that I’m sure few users will research before installing the lot. I mean, have they forgotten how fragile this game is? Yikes!

Best of luck to the mod authors who just became game developers on the Steam workshop. Now your ungrateful, demanding, entitled users are your paying customers. Reap the whirlwind. laugh.gif


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mirocu
post Apr 24 2015, 10:42 AM
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Yeah, this is yet another terrible idea in the line of terrible ideas. Frankly I don´t see myself ever getting a new Bethesda game again. If I can´t even fix the basic stuff without paying even more, then I am bye-bye. I have fixed so many issues between Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 and if I had to pay for all of it I´d be pi.... angry.


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Grits
post Apr 24 2015, 11:51 AM
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There are some amusing responses from modders already, such as the “Give Me Money For No Reason” mod on the Nexus which adds the well-dressed beggar Beth to the game, and the “Extra Apple” mod for $29.99 (adds an apple to the counter at the Bannered Mare) still under review at the Steam Workshop.


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mirocu
post Apr 24 2015, 11:52 AM
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rollinglaugh.gif rollinglaugh.gif


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Grits
post Apr 24 2015, 01:10 PM
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Here is a statement from isoku.



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Acadian
post Apr 24 2015, 02:35 PM
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I'll never pay for a mod any more than I would pay to read a fan fiction - and the work involved in both is massive. Modding and fanfic are hobbies. If you don't enjoy the work don't do it. If you want to get paid for it, apply for a job at a game company or publisher.

That said, I'm used to blanket avoiding certain mods for various reasons. For example, I never got along with COBL so any OB mod that required it simply 'didn't exist'. So it is with other mods that look complex or have a list of prerequisite mods.

I have no doubt that the free modding community will continue as long as allowed. Fantastic modders like SubRosa will continue to make changes to her game and likely offer them up to her friends informally at places like chorrol. Those of us who are not so skilled at modding will continue to seek help from smart folks here like ghastley in our attempts to make our own simple mods or work out tweaks to existing mods.

My concern is the future of the CS/CK for newer games. Just as pay to pay flopped for ESO, I expect pay to mod will flop as well. Will the response be to change the CS/CK for future games so that any output from it can only be sold on Steam? If so, we may all end up joining SubRosa playing GoG games like Baldur's Gate I or joining mirocu playing pokemon. laugh.gif


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SubRosa
post Apr 24 2015, 02:40 PM
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I first read about this a month ago, and it still disturbs me. I think it is a very bad thing for the modding community, on many levels. Ultimately I see it curtailing mod use, and probably even game sales.

Still, on one hand I can understand the reasoning by people who would like some compensation for their modding efforts. I have literally spent thousands of hours working on mods for various games. Everyone else is making money from games, and from the mods we create. So why are we cut out of the loop? Don't we modders deserve a fair slice of that pie?

My answer is something that Chesko illuminated in his/her open letter that Grits linked to above. Chesko rightly says that they don't have an endless well of time to work on mods. Modding means taking time away from spending time with family and friends, from the day job, from improving the skills they need for their day job, etc... So to justify taking that time away from these other things, money is required. There it is, the pink elephant in the room: Greed. Well, that is not my bottom line. I did not spend those thousands of hours modding to get rich. I did it because I love it. The effort I put in, and what created, is its own reward, and I do not regret a single minute spent. Sometimes I even feel like sharing with others, and I will never demand or ask for money for my mods.

Note to self: never download anything by Chesko, and scan my mod order to delete anything of theirs I might have now. Done, I didn't have anything of theirs.

QUOTE

Please don’t be evil.

Gosh, how come no one ever mentioned this to John Wayne Gacy, or Jeffery Dahlmer, or Bill Gates?


QUOTE(ghastley @ Apr 23 2015, 10:55 PM) *

As I already mentioned on the Mods thread at Bethsoft my other worry is that anything I produce will be copied and sold as someone else's work. It will be my responsibility to watch their site and complain if anyone does so. as they won't do anything on their own. Given their lack of reaction to complaints when it was free, and the fact that they'll lose money by taking my side ...

My concern is being accused of plagarism when it is untrue. There are some things that can only be done a certain way. So if one person releases a mod that makes wards use less magicka, and I create one myself, am I going to be sued for stealing the idea? Are people going to patent or copyright mods now, to protect their intellectual property?

There are many of my mods that I won't release now, simply because I saw another mod and thought "I can do that". Often I take it many steps further than the original I saw. But I still expect to be attacked in the community for stealing another person's work. Adding money to the mix is not going to make things better. It never makes things better.


QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 24 2015, 05:30 AM) *

Though as long as mods are offered for free, I wonder how many idiots will pay first without searching for a free version. It seems that a good defense against theft is to continue to offer free mods.

This is the internets we are talking about. Idiocracy is the foundation of the world wide web. Heck, look at all of us who actually paid for Skyrim and Oblivion, when we could have simply downloaded a pirated copy for free? Well, maybe we are not idiots, but rather just honest. But the truth is everything on the internet that is even slightly interesting can be gotten this way. I wonder how long it will be until we start seeing torrents of for-pay mods?

QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 24 2015, 05:30 AM) *

The thing is, though, this has happened. It will take time for the market to settle. Paying for mods certainly helps clarify which ones are actually “essential.” The thing that makes me palm my face the most is the cheerful advice on Steam to try new mods for 24 hours before you buy them, and the bundles for sale that I’m sure few users will research before installing the lot. I mean, have they forgotten how fragile this game is? Yikes!

I cannot count how many times I had downloaded a mod that I thought looked interesting, installed it, took one look at how the armor/sword/thingie actually looked in my game, and said "Oh hell no!" Even the ones that pass initial muster often sit unused for months, or even years, just because I did not have a character that would use that particular thing. Out of every ten mods I download, I probably only actually ever use one. If I have to pay for them, I will never download them in the first place.

QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 24 2015, 05:30 AM) *

Best of luck to the mod authors who just became game developers on the Steam workshop. Now your ungrateful, demanding, entitled users are your paying customers. Reap the whirlwind. laugh.gif

Honestly, this is a major reason I do not release more of the mods I make, and why I usually ignore the comments sections of the ones I do. Which I will never charge for.

QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 24 2015, 06:51 AM) *

There are some amusing responses from modders already, such as the “Give Me Money For No Reason” mod on the Nexus which adds the well-dressed beggar Beth to the game, and the “Extra Apple” mod for $29.99 (adds an apple to the counter at the Bannered Mare) still under review at the Steam Workshop.

The internet FTW!

QUOTE(Acadian @ Apr 24 2015, 09:35 AM) *

If so, we may all end up joining SubRosa playing GoG games like Baldur's Gate I or joining mirocu playing pokemon. laugh.gif

Come to the Gog side. We have cake!

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 24 2015, 04:03 PM


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mirocu
post Apr 24 2015, 04:19 PM
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"Joining mirocu playing Pokemon"?


I don´t think I´ve ever been that insulted before... I´VE NEVER PLAYED THE [censored] THING!! laugh.gif


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Grits
post Apr 24 2015, 04:21 PM
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Aand the Nexus is down. I think I'll play some Oblivion while I ride out the poop-storm. Or maybe write some fan fiction while that's still free! laugh.gif


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mirocu
post Apr 24 2015, 04:30 PM
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You know, Grits... You should make us pay for reading it... tongue.gif

This post has been edited by mirocu: Apr 24 2015, 04:30 PM


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Lol bird

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SubRosa
post Apr 24 2015, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 24 2015, 11:21 AM) *

Aand the Nexus is down.

Gee, the only major site that still allows mods to be distributed for free? Conspiracy? Of course not! I am sure it was a coincidence that a team of armed men all wearing "Valve or Die" shirts all burst into the Nexus data center and blew it up.

But, it's not down for me. Perhaps you have been naughty Grits. Are you collaborating with those evil Steam Workshoppers? nono.gif wink.gif devilsmile.gif

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 24 2015, 04:48 PM


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ghastley
post Apr 24 2015, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 24 2015, 09:40 AM) *

My concern is being accused of plagarism when it is untrue.


I've had that already. I was accused of stealing content from a mod for another game. And it was true. I had modded that other game. kvleft.gif I suspect that situation may become one of the sore points in this, too.

P.S. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12454


This post has been edited by ghastley: Apr 24 2015, 04:39 PM


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Grits
post Apr 24 2015, 04:40 PM
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Ha ha, I’m sure I’m not… Hang on, someone’s at the door.

*crash*

*BAM*

Grits is dragged away by hooded thugs


It's back up for me now, too. But I'm all out of popcorn.

This post has been edited by Grits: Apr 24 2015, 04:41 PM


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ghastley
post Apr 24 2015, 04:50 PM
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The Dark One makes a good point about plagiarism in his latest. Now I need to purchase anything I think contains my content, so I can check if it really does, and I'll never see that money back, because refunds are only as store credit.


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mirocu
post Apr 24 2015, 04:50 PM
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We can no longer trust any post made by the member called "Grits"... emot-ninja1.gif


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SubRosa
post Apr 24 2015, 04:51 PM
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And one of my predictions I made in my first post came true. I just Googled Frostfall + torrent, and see a slew of pirated copies of it. Yaarrrr, the pirates strike! laugh.gif

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 24 2015, 04:51 PM


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Grits
post Apr 24 2015, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Apr 24 2015, 11:50 AM) *

The Dark One makes a good point about plagiarism in his latest. Now I need to purchase anything I think contains my content, so I can check if it really does, and I'll never see that money back, because refunds are only as store credit.

That stood out for me, too. In every case it’s moneymaker for Valve and Bethesda.


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