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> Someone else is CoC, Incorporating Kvatch Rebuilt (partly).
ghastley
post Mar 29 2013, 06:48 PM
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What it says on the can.

I have a need to test multiple post-MQ quests, but don't want to spend time creating testing characters that do the whole MQ. So I need a mod I can install that has another character be the CoC, and in my case, I'd like them to have been rewarded by making them Count of Kvatch.

This thread is intended for discussion of features that would make my mod - I need to build one anyway for my own use - into one that others could use.

I'd expect to use it by creating a character, doing a few quests such as MG up to University entry, SI past the Gatekeeper, to establish character access to everywhere. The character would not visit Kvatch and thus not even start that part of the MQ.

Adding in the mod would allow console SetStage to position the MQ and Kvatch events as I need them. I.e.
  • Move Martin to CRT.
  • Open city gates. ( I often need to let the player recruit Prizna for Gweden at this stage )
  • Close city gates.
  • Lock Imperial City while the CoC battles Dagon, and the Temple gets altered.
  • Start rebuild - Lock Kvatch
  • Complete rebuild - Open Kvatch rebuilt with an Imperial CoC as new Count.
I'd imagine that Oblivion Gates near cities would be demolished and the area "restored" during the Kvatch rebuilding stages. The Siege crawler at the site of the Battle for Bruma would remain as monument. A few remote Oblivion Gates would remain (but no burning ones).

I also need something similar for MG/FG/DB questlines. I may build in optional stages in this, or make them separate mods. The latter may be required by game mechanics anyway.

Suggestions? Requests?

Edit: A few requirements I can think of:
  • The player does not get addressed as CoC
  • All other post-MQ dialog is enabled
  • Temple district has Dragon statue
  • Temple District roads may be repaved at Kvatch rebuild stage


This post has been edited by ghastley: Mar 29 2013, 07:01 PM


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Acadian
post Mar 30 2013, 12:57 AM
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I've worked out ad hoc solutions to most things, but have really enjoyed the idea that the crisis happens around the primary character but she is not the heroine or champion.

Once that is achieved, there is already a mod that makes sure the player does not get addressed as CoC or HoK. MQ No Champion Conversations

That mod, Kvatch Rebuilt and Temple District Repaired (patches things up but leaves the dragon) pretty much ensure an ongoing post crisis world that supports the player not being a hero.

I supported a small number of dead gates left over after the crisis by simply limiting the number that could spawn during the crisis (command console). Just enough to remind of the crisis but not detract from Cyrodiil's beauty.

My game is all set and stable now, but maybe some of these ideas could factor in - I see you mentioned several of them.

Good luck with this noble endeavor!


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ghastley
post Apr 2 2013, 08:36 PM
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I checked out the MQ No Champion Conversations mod, and after my first conversation with Ocato, he thanked me for helping Martin. I haven't found any other problems with it, though.

I have all the "thanks for closing the city's oblivion gate" greetings suppressed by mine, so I'm not certain if it hits those. It mostly deletes dialog topics, which is not my preferred style. I'd rather make the conditions fail, so in a lot of cases having the stage of MQ16 be 101 or 102 instead of 100 will cause enough mis-match.

I'd stopped MS48 (Breaking the Siege of Kvatch) but Hirtel managed to re-start it, so I have a bogus entry in the current character's journal.

I'm now moving on the harder part of conditionally handling Kvatch Rebuilt, without making it a master. Or I may just do a second esp that does depend directly.

I just hope the effort pays me back in simplifying testing of the original Gweden and Rumple mods' new quests.




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Grits
post Aug 10 2013, 03:49 PM
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Another thing that comes to mind is the Savior of Bruma statue along with the “you look just like your statue” comments.

I’ve just started looking into solutions for a post-MQ non-Champion world with the intent of using Kvatch Rebuilt (when it’s available again), so your mod is definitely of interest to me. Only one of my characters has gotten access to the AU and none has completed any questlines.


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Acadian
post Aug 10 2013, 04:13 PM
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I've had great luck with that No Champion Conversations mod. No one has called Buffy the champion of anything or said a peep about her participation in any of the MQ. No Hero of Kvatch, Champ of Bruma, Champ of Cyrodiil, statue talk at all. I confess she has not talked to Ocato in her post MQ world - will have to seek him out and check that. Folks do ponder the future of the Empire and comment about going to see the dragon of Akatosh and mages talk about the metaphysical implications. Soldiers express relief the crisis is over, but ponder the future of the Empire. Most folks seem to express confidence in the Council's ability to hold things together - somehow.

Regarding the statue, since Buffy is a custom race, it is a known glitch that the game will build a Bruma statue, then promptly crash everytime you subsequently try to enter Bruma. I use a separate small mod to fix this - which it does. The pedestal for her statue is there, but the statue is gone. That fix mod says the same thing can happen if you let them build a statue of you during Kvatch Rebuilt in Kvatch. The mod can be applied to fix that as well, but having that statue made is optional so Buffy simply declined.

Ah, the complex worlds we weave! As you know, Sirs Mazoga and Agronak are the Champs of Cyrodiil and Fanador (Adoring Fan) is their squire. Making Mazoga a part time companion was easy. Doing that with Agronak was beyond my ability and, given my limited abilities, I didn't feel I could easily get both Agronak and Fanador in Buffy's world as companions. So we sacrificed Agronak (and just pretend he is Mazoga's consort) in order to free Fanador as a part time companion. So Buffy could travel with the real Mazoga and/or Fanador if/when she chooses, but would need to create a special companion if we really needed to have an Agronak in her game (which we don't). Gee, look at me waffle on here. embarrased.gif


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mirocu
post Jan 23 2014, 12:47 PM
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Would this mod you talk about be any good if I just wanna skip the Hero of Kvatch talk?


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It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
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Acadian
post Jan 23 2014, 01:41 PM
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Mirocu, I'm not sure. It says it's designed for post-MQ and lists what it does:

- Removes all dialogs and topics related to Champion of Cyrodiil from Oblivion.
- Reset all faction reactions and NPC dispositions to Player faction to vanilla default.
- Restore ownership of Jauffre chest and Prior Maborel horse to WeynonPrioryFaction.

Additionally, we never ever hear any 'Hero of Kvatch' dialogue. Regarding the second feature on the list, we have noticed a rather unhappy quirk in that several of the Count/Countesses now have their dispo toward Buffy permanently set to 0. Neither charm, bribe or even command console can change it. Annoying, but easy enough to work around by simply pretending to talk to them instead of actually listening about mudcrabs. They will still conduct business normally with the player; that is, despite his 0 dispo, Count Leyawiin will still happily reward Buffy for black bows. It is just his initial greetings / farewells that can be kind of rude. Happily, all the Legion soldiers seem to clearly recognize her high personality and high fame with no infamy - so they are all very kind to her. And that's much more important to her than silly nobles (even though she is a very minor noble herself).

Anyway, here's the link at Nexus: MQ No Champion Conversations


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mirocu
post Jan 23 2014, 08:29 PM
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Thanks, Acadian. But I think I´ll skip this one then. Not that Lothran and I care too much what the nobles think and I just won´t bother with a mod that might work and that messes something else up.

Lothran doesn´t mind the fame though he does think it´s rather strange they all still act so surprised when they see him after all these years laugh.gif

This post has been edited by mirocu: Jan 23 2014, 08:30 PM


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It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
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ghastley
post Feb 28 2014, 05:54 PM
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My latest Oblivion character did the KotN stuff, and then became Guildmaster of the TG. So she's always getting the "I used to consider you a hero ...." from everyone she talks to. Did anyone do a mod to suppress that annoyance? If not, another private mod on the to-do list...


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gpstr
post Mar 26 2015, 06:52 PM
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So I note that the last post here is over a year old...

Is this still a thing? A possible thing? A speculative thing?

I've long wanted exactly this sort of mod, even to the point that, in spite of the fact that I couldn't script my way out of a paper bag, I've threatened to learn to script just to do it. I never knew if it was even possible though, and still don't for that matter. I'm just amazed to see someone else even mention the idea, much less appear to have been working on such a thing.

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ghastley
post Mar 26 2015, 07:09 PM
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I certainly did all those things, but I'm not sure the result was generic enough to suit everyone's game. The stages of my MQ-advancing quest were tailored to my testing requirements, rather than anything that would make sense for other users.

However, if you want to use it, pm me. I probably only need to provide an esp, as there aren't any replacement resources involved. The other published mods mentioned in the thread would be needed for a complete fix, as I didn't duplicate all their functionality.


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gpstr
post Mar 26 2015, 08:07 PM
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I think I'm too new - the board won't let me PM.

Yeah - I'd at least like to look at the esp.

I've never even known if such a thing was possible. It was just an idle dream.

What I envsion, as a fairly generic mod, is putting a fork in the MQ, preferably at the point that the PC talks to Jauffre, though maybe necessarily when the PC first talks to Savlian (there aren't any choices in the dialogue with Jauffre but there is one in the dialogue with Savlian - I don't know if that's important or not). Essentially, add a dialogue choice to Jauffre or add a third option to the one with Savlian (in addition to the yes to help them close the gate or the temporary no) that would be a permanent no. Pick that option and the MQ would take off on its own.

I don't think it's necessary, even from an RP perspective, that the events of the MQ actually happen. All that would then be necessary would be for the mod to trigger the changes in the world over an appropriate time span - first Martin would move from Kvatch to CRT (I don't know if that's even necessary), then some gates would open, then some more gates would open, then the Battle of Bruma would happen (off-screen), leaving the Siege Crawler in its wake, then the Temple would be destroyed, the dragon statue placed and all the gates destroyed. Eliminate or suppress all the references to the PC as CoC and inject a few new issues of the Black Horse Courier reporting on the "new" CoC (Savlian Matius seems the obvious choice) and I would think that would do it.

I have no idea how to even start though, so yeah - I'd like to see your esp, if nothing else.

Thanks.
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ghastley
post Mar 26 2015, 09:21 PM
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I didn't make any changes in the dialog. You give the amulet to Jauffre, and then ignore the rest of the MQ.

All my mod does is let you drive the progression of the presumed other character who is CoC by using console commands to set the stages. I.e. it's a completely manual progression, without a timer driving it, or any connection to what the player is doing. One stage moves Martin to CRT and closes the Kvatch gate, another opens the city gates, etc. I implemented the stages to suit my own mod testing, which might not match anyone else's needs.

I don't remember if I built a statue of Bendu Olo (the default player character) in Bruma, as I first considered. That's a detail that doesn't affect gameplay much, so probably not. Savlian is not the CoC, as that would have meant changing his packages in both the vanilla game and Kvatch Rebuilt. The actual CoC is never met by the player.

There are actually two esp's so that I can test with or without Kvatch Rebuilt. The latter is handled by a separate one which is much simpler, and IIRC just does it all in one stage. The Count is the CoC, who is out of town whenever you're there.

There are a large of number of things I didn't do. For example, CRT should be inaccessible to the player, but I didn't do anything about it. In my games, I just didn't go there. I a published mod, it would need to stay locked.


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tegeus-Cromis
post Aug 25 2015, 09:30 AM
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This is a pretty nifty idea, have you done any more work on it?

I think a really absolute solution would be cool, it would have to be used with an alternate start mod. You arrive at Anvil on a ship, say - and that's it, the crisis is all over, even to Kvatch being rebuilt if the mod is there. (Be nice to update the year too, maybe 5 years forward - I think you can do that with OBSE.)
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