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Chorrol.com _ Oblivion _ About the Black Bows
Posted by: mirocu Oct 25 2014, 09:15 PM
Maybe I could have used another thread for this but I wanted to discuss it more in-depth so here we go 
Something odd happened today when Lothran was walking around Bravil while equipped with one of these bows, I noticed his walking pace was a tad slower than normal. At first I ignored it and tried to shake it off but the feeling wouldnīt go away and I could swear something was off. I had to investigate this further so I hotkeyed the Black Bow and one other weapon and switched back and forth while Lothran was walking and true enough, there is a slight slowing-down effect when he has the Black Bow equpped!
Has anyone else noticed this? 
Posted by: Grits Oct 25 2014, 09:18 PM
Interesting find! I've never noticed, and I've had more than one character who used a Black Bow.
Posted by: SubRosa Oct 25 2014, 09:21 PM
Is a Black Bow heavy armor then? That is weird.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 25 2014, 09:22 PM
Maybe someone could find something in the CS?
Posted by: mALX Oct 26 2014, 02:29 AM
How odd is that! I'd say SR nailed it, probably heavy armor. If Lothran's skill in heavy armor is low it would def make a difference.
Posted by: Renee Gade IV Oct 26 2014, 03:34 AM
No I can't say I ever noticed this before. Saga occasionally carries a black bow, I'll try equipping and unequipping one of these next time I see her.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 26 2014, 10:45 AM
But how could it count as heavy armour when itīs a weapon?
Posted by: SubRosa Oct 26 2014, 04:46 PM
It shouldn't be able to be counted as armor. But Heavy Armor is the only thing I can think of that arbitrarily slows you down.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 26 2014, 04:51 PM
Yeah, itīs a good thought. Can it be confirmed? Itīs no biggie but I wanna know 
Posted by: Acadian Oct 26 2014, 04:59 PM
You mentioned comparing walking speed with other weapons equipped, then switching to BB. Have you tried switching to other bows as well? Just looking to narrow things down.
I don't know how in the world a weapon could be counted as heavy armor though. I know how to switch armor between heavy and light in the CS, but how a non-armor item can act as armor is beyond me. When I asked ghastley once about modding to change clothing to armor (or armor to clothing), his answer led me to quickly toss it in the 'too hard' box.
One of life's mysteries? 
Posted by: mirocu Oct 26 2014, 05:44 PM
I didnīt try other bows but I have never noticed a change when Lothran has used them. Only with the BB.
Strange stuff this is, indeed
Posted by: Lopov Oct 26 2014, 06:00 PM
I'm sorry to say this, mirocu, but Lohtran is aging. He's not so young anymore and of course he can't walk so fast if you put a bow on his back. Soon there'll be times when he'll have to warm his arthritic feet every evening in warm water, imagine how slow will he walk then.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 26 2014, 06:02 PM
Well, he does have white hair
Posted by: Renee Gade IV Oct 26 2014, 11:23 PM
Snaaty has a black bow. I tried having him carry it, and then not carry it. Removed it from his inventory, and put it back in. I don't see a change in his speed at all, so it sounds like you've got some sort of rare quirk.
Edit: Do you mean 'equipped' like he's actually carrying the bow in his hand? Okay, I see a slowing-down effect now, but I thought it was this way with all bows?
Posted by: mirocu Oct 27 2014, 05:56 PM
I mean equipped as in the bow being on his back, not just in his inventory and not in his hand
Posted by: Renee Gade IV Oct 27 2014, 07:32 PM
I mean equipped as in the bow being on his back, not just in his inventory and not in his hand
oH okay. Well no difference then in my game, the only diff I see is when Snaaty is actually carrying a bow in his hand.
Maybe your game is broken, Crow. Go send Bethesda a rantmail, try to get your money back.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 27 2014, 08:38 PM
The difference is very minor, perhaps you just didnīt notice it?
*sends rantmail*
Posted by: mALX Oct 27 2014, 08:54 PM
Heavy Armor is just a term, it is how the weight penalty is determined based on the weight of each piece of armor - well, weapons weigh differently too. A hammer that weighs 100 will slow a player down significantly when they are used to carrying an under 20 pound dagger or short sword.
(and of course going armed always slows the player down no matter the weapon)
Posted by: haute ecole rider Oct 27 2014, 08:58 PM
I think mALX is right. I also recall that using fatigue mods will increase the penalty for Burden especially when you get close to the PC's weight limit.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 27 2014, 09:13 PM
So what youīre saying is since Iīm used to Lothran carrying very little stuff around thatīs why I noticed the difference?
Posted by: mALX Oct 28 2014, 01:06 AM
So what youīre saying is since Iīm used to Lothran carrying very little stuff around thatīs why I noticed the difference?
Technically, I don't knowhow much he carries around usually; so I'll use Maxical VS an Orc skilled in heavy armor as examples. Maxical has never even broken novice in Heavy armor, and the weight of all her weapons combined never is over 30 pounds TOPS. So if she carries one 20-40 pound weapon she really feels it. It makes her probably as slow as if she had gone armed with any light weapon.
VS
An Orc skilled in heavy armor is not slowed by an armor of 250-300 pounds plus a hammer weighing 100 pounds - that's why it is good to either build up both light and heavy armor (I've never been able to do it, can't stand the slow down heavy armor gives) - or stick with your weight class, and that includes your weapons - which is what I've always done.
If you want a good bow that is light, use a conjured bow (Daedric, ignores armor resistance) - and it weighs ZERO!
Posted by: mirocu Oct 28 2014, 05:51 PM
Lothran usually carries around about 50 (?) but his Strength is 100.
Well, I guess I have to accept the bow as Heavy Armour then. Seems we donīt get any further anyway now
Posted by: SubRosa Oct 28 2014, 06:02 PM
My curiosity did eventually get the better of me, and I looked them up in the CS. There are no scripts attached to it that could be causing it. It is essentially a Steel Bow with a different name, but actually weighs a few pounds less. Go figure. Of course as it has been pointed out, you cannot set it to be heavy or light or no armor in the CS, because as a weapon, those categories don't exist for it.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 28 2014, 06:09 PM
Strange. It was obvious enough for me to notice and when I experimented with it the difference in Lothranīs walking speed was indisputable. But still there is no explanation for it 
Posted by: Renee Gade IV Oct 29 2014, 06:04 PM
Well, you won't have to send that rantmail, mirocu. Yesterday me and my little one took a little field trip to Bethesda's studios, which are about a half hour south from where we live. Managed to get inside the place. Got past security by claiming I had lost my paycheck; "No I'm not a programmer, I'm one of the cleaners," I said. Hey, it actually worked! .. Took awhile, but eventually we found the big guy's offices: yep, Todd Howard and Pete Hines. Stepped right up and said "LOOK 
... I demand money back for my friend mirocu's game!!! yeah that's right the mirocu, the one who's got one of the longest-lasting; characters in TES4 history!!! His game is broken. His character moves slightly slower with a black bow in hand now FIX this, goshdarnit!"
Well. Suffice it to say, this didn't go well. 
Not only was I arrested and handcuffed in front of my own daughter, but we didn't get your money back. Sorry. On the plus side, I happen to know which game Bethesda is working on. 
Posted by: SubRosa Oct 29 2014, 06:09 PM
Did they send you to the old Civil War prisoner of war camp at Point Lookout?
Posted by: Renee Gade IV Oct 29 2014, 06:11 PM
Did they send you to the old Civil War prisoner of war camp at Point Lookout?
Posted by: mALX Oct 29 2014, 07:39 PM
Well, you won't have to send that rantmail, mirocu. Yesterday me and my little one took a little field trip to Bethesda's studios, which are about a half hour south from where we live. Managed to get inside the place. Got past security by claiming I had lost my paycheck; "No I'm not a programmer, I'm one of the cleaners," I said. Hey, it actually worked! .. Took awhile, but eventually we found the big guy's offices: yep, Todd Howard and Pete Hines. Stepped right up and said "LOOK
... I demand money back for my friend mirocu's game!!! yeah that's right the mirocu, the one who's got one of the longest-lasting; characters in TES4 history!!! His game is broken. His character moves slightly slower with a black bow in hand now FIX this, goshdarnit!"Well. Suffice it to say, this didn't go well.
Not only was I arrested and handcuffed in front of my own daughter, but we didn't get your money back. Sorry. On the plus side, I happen to know which game Bethesda is working on. Posted by: mirocu Oct 29 2014, 08:06 PM
Once again you managed to crack us up, Renee. And you didnīt even had to write about one of your characters!
Posted by: ghastley Oct 29 2014, 09:43 PM
Not only was I arrested and handcuffed in front of my own daughter, but we didn't get your money back.
If they'd known it was really you, they'd have used electrical tape, instead.
Posted by: Acadian Oct 29 2014, 10:14 PM
Renee! I have this crystal clear vision of Todd Howard calling for security, quickly followed by the door busting down to reveal two armored Legion soldiers: "STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM! YOU VIOLATED THE LAW!"
Posted by: mALX Oct 30 2014, 12:19 AM
Renee! I have this crystal clear vision of Todd Howard calling for security, quickly followed by the door busting down to reveal two armored Legion soldiers: "STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM! YOU VIOLATED THE LAW!"
That's a Crystal Beth version to you, lol. OMG, Renee had me rolling! That made my day !!!
Posted by: Renee Gade IV Oct 30 2014, 10:46 PM
Awesomeness. Yeah, I can see Todd and Pete saying "STOP RIGHT THERE!" Good one, Acadian!
Back on topic (kinda) I gotta just say that I'm with Lady Saga now. She's got several bows on her horse: a black bow, a silver bow (gotta have silver), a Bow of Scorching (10 pts. fire damage), and a silver crossbow (mod). I like this variety. The crossbow is great for shorter-range attacks and packs a mean punch, while the other bows are easier to aim
Open question to all: What are your characters current bow choices, assuming you're playing Oblivion and have an archer?
Posted by: ghastley Oct 31 2014, 04:01 AM
Nocturnal's Bow of Shadows, until I had to give it back to Cyndil. Part of my mod as seen http://chorrol.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=4822&view=findpost&p=185307 - it's a retextured silver bow with some neat enchantments.
Posted by: mALX Oct 31 2014, 04:51 AM
Shadowhunt, and I have one I custom enchanted that is nice - I think it is silver too. Maxical doesn't carry a bow often, or hit her target often with a bow either, but there are times when even she will carry one.
Posted by: mirocu Oct 31 2014, 05:36 PM
A self-enchanted Elven bow which does Shock damage.
Btw, thanks for (sort of) getting back on topic, Renee. Youīve shown great character improvement 
Posted by: Renee Gade IV Nov 3 2014, 01:18 AM
Btw, thanks for (sort of) getting back on topic, Renee. Youīve shown great character improvement
I'm pretty sure if I keep getting back on topic my Speechcraft skill will finally rise.
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