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Posted by: treydog Mar 17 2006, 03:51 PM

As we seem to have achieved a "critical mass" of writers here, I thought I would begin a thread regarding how it is we do this thing called "writing." The idea of this discussion is to maybe help each other with the creative process and also talk about how we deal with "writer's block."

Here is my process- please note that I do not believe that everyone (or anyone else has to write this way. It is simply what works for me.

Before I ever wrote the first word of Trey, I had made up my mind as to who he was, how he felt about certain things, what his "values" were. He dislikes Imperials and the Empire, hates slavery, isn't very good with authority figures, is perfectly willing to steal (although not from the poor or weak), etc.

I keep a spiral notebook in which I write dialogue, scenes, etc. in longhand. Even though I have been using a computer for (mumble-mumble) years, the act of actually writing in pen and on paper helps me connect with the material. Although I try to maintain a certain flow (chronological in the case of Trey), I have learned from bitter experience to write down EVERYTHING right when I think of it, even if it won't show up in the story until much later. To assist with finding those orphan ideas, I use different colored pens and assign them numbers. Then, when it is time, I just make a note to myself, thus "Insert 15." I usually do not write every word that appears in the final, just as much as I need to get going. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less.

Because I am doing a straight MQ story, I depend heavily on the Construction Set to get the in-game dialogue right. On the other hand, I consider how Trey will react to certain characters and situations and "create" conversations are needed if things are to make sense

Once I have enough (usually 3-6 pages) manuscript, I go to Word and begin turning my scribbling into real story. A lot of composing and creating takes place at the keyboard. The manuscript may simply say "Temple Informant." I will take actual dialogue, plus maybe some additional conversation to show the interaction between Trey and the NPC and develop the scene. A quick spell check (Word hates ES names), and I am ready for the next step.

The most important part of the process is the read-through. This is the place where I read the installment out loud to the talented and patient Mrs. Treydog. The purpose of this is to ensure that the writing "flows." If something I am reading "clunks" when read out loud, it needs to be fixed. I also find typos or missing words during the read-through. Additionally, Mrs. Treydog may ask questions or provide other suggestions.

Example- in the scene with Delitian she asked me, "How does the captain know who Trey is?"

So I wrote in the "I am Trey of High Rock" bit. Interestingly, the "... I've heard the name" response is already in-game.

Once I have fixed whatever did not work on read-through, I post the installment.

If this thread survives, I will talk later about dealing with writer's block.

Edited to fix typo and to add:

One of the hardest things for some writers to do is to decide when is "it" finished. The read-through also helps with that question. Bottom line- you have to let it go sometime. If you polish the story long enough, you will be left with nothing- particularly not the enjoyment.

Posted by: Padalin Mar 17 2006, 04:07 PM

Ohh thanks treydog im hoping taht this would help a noob writer like me.

Posted by: Zelda_Zealot Mar 17 2006, 05:58 PM

Sometimes I just write what ever comes to me, if it does not work out it gets to meet mister delete button. But really most of my writing time is spent sitting in a chair stairing at the computer screen, waiting for something to float across my mind.

But in rare moments something that I really like pops into my mind, where is swims around for a few days, gaining more and more ideas, until I finally get around to writing it.

Unfortunitly this has not happened in a while, partly because I am a bit lazy, but mostly because my computer with all of my WIP's died...

P.S. Please continue with the writers block part. It might help, and if it does I might copy some of my work off "fanfiction.net" and continue it.

Posted by: Kiln Mar 17 2006, 08:02 PM

This thread has the potential to help those frustrated writers out there, this was a really great idea Trey.

Lets see...I usually try to think ahead of each part and I ask myself how this part will effect the character later on and if the actions of the character seem true to his or her personality.

If an installment fits with the rest of the story then I post it but if it doesn't then I usually scrap it, saving only parts that fit well and getting rid of those that don't. Make mental notes and keep in mind what you want to happen later on in the story, then build up to it.

I start each part by first developing a general idea about how each part will play out and then I start adding smaller details like how the character will do a certain thing and adding a few descriptive elements so that the reader can get a clear picture of what you want them to see. Description is a key element in writing.

Maybe the worst thing that a writer can do is to become bored with his or her own work, the most important thing is to have fun with writing the story and don't be discouraged by a lack of comments on your work, just because people aren't commenting doesn't mean they aren't reading.

I think that one of the best ways to keep yourself interested is to give yourself a goal in writing the story. I generally try to slowly change and develope the character, as the story progresses to show that the events the character has endured have changed him in some way. An example of which would be slowly changing a thief into more of a honorable sort throughout the duration of the story.

To keep readers interested I try to give the character a personal goal that doesn't have a direct effect on the storyline, from something as simple as getting a new sword to something as complex as searching for an ancient artifact.

Before I post the update I read over it to make sure it is easy to read and understand, if its not then I begin revising until it seems more reader friendly.
And the last thing I want to add is, don't forget your paragraph spacing, it is hard for people to read large amounts of text without any spaces.

I hope my words help some of those writers who are just beginning to write or are having trouble writing.

-Kiln

Posted by: Agent Griff Mar 17 2006, 08:10 PM

My writing style is pretty strange. Since most of my story's actions and characters are made and designed by me it's pretty hard for me to think all of it. It may be easier to tell the story of the Main Quest in Morrowind as Trey or Jack Cloudy does but I've fixated it in my mind that I will be one of the, if not, the first guy from these boards to write a tale telling the story of Oblivion and its main Quest.

But before I actually get my hands on Oblivion everything my character does is thought out by me based on some guide lines on how Knightly Guild quests were handled in Daggerfall. That's why some of you may get the sweet feeling of playing Daggerfall when you read my story. Unlike some people on these boards I don't write my story down, I think it up and write it as it comes to my head. It may be hard and a bit chaotic but at least it's satisfying for me to realise that I'm telling my OWN home-made story and not the story of Morrowind which is pretty cliche' by now in my humble opinion.

Posted by: Taillus Mar 17 2006, 08:41 PM

One thing, for me that I always take into consideration is who my main character is (Taillus) and what it is that he will be doing. I think making a simple timeline makes things easier. Give your character or characters a to do list of sorts. This way you cannot end up backed into a corner.

Another tactic I use which may not work for all writers here but if you are ever in a jam and cannot find a way to continue at the moment just take a break and write a small fic for the one shot stories thread we have here. It allows you to get your creativity flowing while giving you a change of scenery. Sometimes that is all it takes to get you ack on track.

Worst case scenario, you can always ask one of the writers here for help. I know that I would never mind in the least if someone wanted my constructive criticism and I bet there are a number of people here that would be very glad to as well.

A major point to remember is that no one can just fly through a story and complete it in minutes. Take time as well as pride in your work and don't forget that Rome wasn't built in a day. Do what ever gets you in the zone wether it be listening to music or anything else and never stop having fun with it!!!

Posted by: jack cloudy Mar 17 2006, 09:28 PM

I am a bit of a daydreamer, so I usually come up with bits and pieces through the day which I write down. Keeping to the Morrowind storyline as well as keeping only one character makes things easier. At least it wasn't a total disaster as with my last story which was sci-fi.

Posted by: Wolfie Mar 18 2006, 01:22 AM

Writing...process? What the hell is that?
I just sit down at my computer whenever i get a vague idea for the next part of my story, and then i type til i run out of ideas lol

Posted by: minque Mar 18 2006, 06:50 PM

Hmm haven´t we all different tactiques? Me I develop the next part in my head, sort of "daydream" it..then of course it´s cruisal that I get the opportunity to write it down as soon as possible...otherwise I might very well forget it again!

Such as just now.....these last three days when I´ve been here in Germany, walking the streets of Stade, then I´ve come up with a lot of stuff.....So guys keep your fingers crossed I do remember it all when I come back on sunday evening!

Posted by: treydog Mar 19 2006, 03:21 AM

I think we have some excellent ideas here- one thing that comes out clearly is that writing works differently for different folks. Rather than go on a quote-fest, I want to point out some of the points that strike me as being important:

-It should be fun- and that goes at the top of the list for a reason.

-Have some idea of where the story is going when you begin to write. It will save you headaches down the road. And it will keep your readers interested.

-Build your ideas on a solid foundation. That foundation may be character or plot, or better, a combination of the two. Add details and descriptions that give your story a “feel” or “atmosphere” that fits your concept.

-Give your ideas time to mature. The amount of time required will be different for different people- and different for the same person with different ideas. Writing and revising is part of that process- just don’t overdo the revising part.

-Often, a useful technique is to let your ideas “cook.” That is the highly technical term writers use to refer to the act of letting the story float around in their brains before committing it to paper.

That isn’t everything, and not all of those will work for everyone, but it is a start.

Writer’s Block

To talk about this, our greatest enemy, we have to define our terms. So first, let me describe what it is not. There are a great many things that keep us from writing- real life being the most prominent. But that is not writer’s block. The fact that your parents, husband/wife, girlfriend/boyfriend, dog/cat/fish/ferret, etc. hates you is sad- but it is not writer’s block. And this is not Treydog’s advice to the lovelorn.

Writer’s block is also not really the inability to write anything- it is the inability to write anything that you LIKE. There is something all writers have that is called the “monitor function.” Sometimes it is useful- more often, it is a pain. The monitor function is that little voice in your head that tells you every idea you have is stupid. If you listen to it, you will be paralyzed. To write, you have to have enough confidence to tell the monitor to shut up.

Other times, you hit a place in your writing where you aren’t sure what happens next. Maybe you have written yourself into a corner- like Mark Twain did in Huckleberry Finn.

Or maybe you simply feel like you have run out of ideas.

And maybe it is something else entirely.

But the key thing is: what do you do about it? The answer is simple to say and hard to do- you have to write your way past it. The only thing that will get you past a writer’s block is to write. As some other folks have suggested, sometimes you have to put one story aside and work on another. Another thing to do is set up a routine that helps you write. When I get really stuck, I always go back to pen and paper. There is something about the physical feel of the point forming words on the page that puts me back in the proper frame of mind. Another trick is to change the scenery. Stop trying to force your way through the stuck place in the story and go around it. What I mean by that is, think about what you are sure its is you want to happen eventually in the story. Write it down. Now think about how you can get to there from where you are. I cannot repeat often enough that you need to write down every idea you have, right when you have it. It may just be a fragment of dialogue or a bit of action, but you know it will need to be in there somewhere.

Another thing that can help is to talk through the problem with someone. The very act of expressing your ideas out loud (or through IRC or IM or whatever) will force you to shape them into something more substantial and intelligible. I listed those methods for a reason- they are conversational, meaning you get instant feedback. Discussing your ideas, problems, plans, etc. via email can also work- I have actually used that technique with my story. The advantage of a discussion is that you can try out several different approaches and see which one “feels” right.

Sometimes, a stuck place is actually an opportunity. Example- in the original story, Trey once got stuck in a cave because he was hauling all of his books, alchemy apparatus, etc. around with him. That really happened in the game. And it was a wonderful opportunity to introduce some humor and to give some insight into the character. What would he give up? What would he keep? When you get stuck in your writing, go back to your original concept of the character and the story. This person is your creation, speaking with a voice you gave him/her/it. If put some time into thinking about who the character is, that planning will help you find a way out of the problem.

“What would Telina (or Kiln, or Jonacin, or Serene, or Clangor, etc.) do when confronted by a drunken Nord singing an obscene song?”

“How did that Khajiit get here? And why is he wearing a dress?”

In other words, do something unexpected, but in character. It is a fantasy world after all, so use some imagination. Just because it is imaginative doesn’t have to mean it breaks your concept of your character. And listen to what your character is telling you. If you are doing this right, that character may have grown and changed from you original concept. When I started Trey, he most decidedly was NOT going to be the Nerevarine. He was going to tell Caius to take a hike. But- it was so much more interesting to watch (and write about) his heel-dragging, whining, surly acceptance of the inevitable.

Bottom line- when you are stuck, write your way through it. If you can’t think of what to write, talk your way through it. If you can’t find anyone to talk to, talk to yourself. Everybody already thinks writers are weird anyway.

Posted by: ShraX Mar 19 2006, 04:15 AM

Here's my process:

I sit down at my computer (I think too fast to get everything down on paper before it flies outta my ear, so I have to type it) and just start out of nowhere, not knowing anything or what's gonna happen, who'll do what, what's gonna be said.. nothing. I improvise everything on the spot without any prior ideas etc, and it works best for me. As I write (and it's continuous.. if I ever take a break, I completely lose my train of thought and have to wait a while, usually until the next day, before I can successfully go on from where I left off), I refer to what I wrote in the previous entries and paragraphs, and even sentences, so what I'm writing in the present makes sense.

Although, it'd be nice if I wrote everything down as I thought of it as Trey posted he does. Many ideas have popped in and flown outta my head, many good ones, as a consequence of not putting them down on paper so I remember them for when I write a new entry. I'll likely never do that though, but I don't feel, for me at least, it's absolutely necessary.

Posted by: Tellie Mar 19 2006, 12:10 PM

Ok...My process:

1:I sit down, enjoying a good cup'o tea, or coffee for that matter. I read through my last two maby three posts, and do a little brainstorm, to see what ideas will fit in. If one does not fit in, it's usually scrapped, but if I see that it can be used later, I put it in my archive, to dig it up again some other time.

2:I get pen and paper, and actually writes the whole thing by hand, and cross out things that may have escaped me during the brainstorm. After I have written it down on paper, read through it a couple of times, and corrected what was wrong, I type it in on my comp. Then before i post it, I follow jona's advice, and readit out loud sometimes...after that I post it...and wait for the replies..which I love to get, by the way.

Posted by: Franavu Mar 19 2006, 03:54 PM

Okay, here's how I write. Before I started with the story I knew pretty much what I wanted to tell. I'm working toward a goal.
When I start to write a new part I've already been thinking about what I want to do and how I want to do it for a while. Sometimes days, sometimes weeks or even months. I keep te plotline in my head till I have the time to just sit down and write. Which I do pretty irregularly due to certain circumstances. But when I sit down behind my PC I usually get quite a lot done.
I do most of my writing on Friday nights, when I get home after a week at university. I write as much to tell a story as to unwind after a long week of hard work, it's a way to relax for me.

My style is a bit unsual, but for me it is a lot easier to tell my story in this format. I think you should pick the format that is best for you and the story you are trying to tell, I think that may help a lot in terms of progress.

Well, I hope the previous made sense and that someone finds it useful.

Posted by: Kell-Reevor Mar 30 2006, 12:38 AM

Great idea Trey, I'm glad you started this thread.

My "technique" (if you could call it that) for writing a fan-fic is to simply sit down and write. Usually I have an ordered storyline listing important events, but I have a bad habit of 'over editing' said storyline.

For something like a short fan-fic, it is just easier for me to open up Word and simply type. Once I get started, I can usually keep going until I have an reached an acceptable point. The text is then reread and finally posted here. I would not recommend this method, as the content it produces is typically serviceable at best.

For a much larger project I have in development, I can safely say that Trey's notebook pointer is among the best advice anyone can give. The difference between freehand and typing your thoughts is amazing. The very condition of the notebook can add to this effect. For example, the one I use is going on 7 years old and has survived both a fire and a coffee spill. It's aged and tattered appearance works well to set the feeling.

I recently started to use this notebook to record my thoughts. As of now, it is still fairly empty. I have different sections marked throughout it, such as: lore, tech, characters, etc. If a thought comes to me, I jot it down in the appropriate section.I usually review what I have written, then transfer what I like over to computer. Any info I don't use is still kept in the notebook in case I find a way to change it into something I like. For a project on this scale, I intend to devote years of planning before I even consider writing the first word.

Before you start writing, it would be a good idea to make sure you have the planning done. Editing as you go has its ups, but constant editing can leave you with a completely different story than what you started. Before you write you peice, you should ask yourself, "Is this the story I want to write?" If this is something you are taking seriously, then you want to really make sure its what you want it to be. Review all of your planned material as diligently as you would your first draft.

I hope this helps. Through the few stories I have written I have developed bad habits typically surrounding a lack of planning. That is why I really stress that part so much. I think Trey's advice was probably the most helpful of all, and again I would like to thank him for starting this thread.

Posted by: davion Apr 2 2006, 06:58 AM

Hey i'm back but whats new, every month i seem to dissapear don't I? lol, well this is my writing style.

Before i start i make sure i have everything i need. Make sure i'm not thirsty, not hungry, don't have the urge to have a smoke, that kind of stuff, then i'll sit down, open up microsoft word do all the paragraphing and tittleing and that stuff and where i am ganna put the words and the font and size and all that.

Then i sit there for several minutes trying to think of a name for the story. After about 2 minutes, if i haven't thought of anything that sounds good to me, i'll just pick a random name like, "Joo-Joo Bongaloo!" or something then when i get more into the story and figure out what the feel of the story is going to be, i rename it with the appropiate name.

After i get the tittle settled, i turn on music via xbox or ps2 and T.V.(input 2), and hit tab for the paragraph indention thing, place my fingers on the keys and start typing. I have no clue what i'm going to say, I don't plan out what i'm going to write, I don't even think of where i want my story to begin. This is litterally what happens, no joke!

I place my left middle finger on the W key, my thumb on the SPACEBAR, my ring finger on the A key, my index finger on the F key, Pinky Finger on CTRL key, then i put my right index finger on the N key, my right middle finger on the K key, and my right ring finger on the : key, my right pinky on the SHIFT key, and my right thumb on the space of plastic underneath the SPACEBAR.

Why did i tell you all that? Beats me i just did, thats all there is too it lol. Thats just how my hand naturally sits on my keyboard when i'm getting ready to type.

Now when it comes to writing actual story, my mind goes blank and my fingers just start bouncing all over the keyboard and i don't know how the story turns out until i'm finished with it. Then when i'm done for the time being, i go and check to see if i put the same thing mroe than once right next to each other and look for type-o's and what not.

Like the story i just started called, "Endless Oblivion" i had no idea how i was going to make my char do anything, didn't know what race it was ganna be or what gender or anything, i just named my story then placed my fingers on the key and they went off and did their own thing and when i checked back i was done with that part.

---------------------------

Trey your style works for you really well, but its not for me but some of those things you listed can be used for spell checking, taking the authentication of what your talkin about and all that good stuff.

What i don't do that you do is that i don't have what the NPC's say word for word. I find that if you do that it they sound too much like machines, just like in the game lol. I take the basic topic of what they were talking about and type it back out in my own style, to make the reader feel like the NPC chars my main is talking to are actually people and not just having the MC walk around like he's in the Matrix™ ya'know? lol. What works for you though ya'know what i mean? thats just how i do.

Something that i didn't see you talk about Trey, and i did a brief read so i could have skipped it and not known it but this is what helps me too.

-----------------------

With me i cannot write a story just out of the blue like steven king and all them. I have to base it off of a game i have played or a book i've read that i'd like to have seen more of a certain character and what not. I mainly stick to writing stories about games i have beaten.

Like i finished writing a story based on the Half-Life 2™ game. But insted of writing down what you did as Freeman in my own words, my main character was Adrian Sheapard from the Half-Life 1 expansion pack Opposing Force. I called it, "Opposing Force 2" because i really wanted to see Sierra come out with a sequle to that expansion pack, so insted of waiting for them to(possably never) come out with one, i decided i should write the story based on how i think it should go down. It's not very long story, but opp force wasn't very long either. But if you guys have ever played HL1 and the OpFo expansion you'll know what i'm getting at.

But back to what i was originally talking about. Inspiration.

I make sure i know the game pretty well before I write a story about it or what i did, ect., ect., . If i know the story well enough, or if its still fresh in my mind, i'll write the story. If not, before i begin to write, i'll go into the game and start playing the game from a new char or whatever, and as i play i get random sentances between 2 random made up chars pop into my head.

Like today, i had beaten Oblivion last night, and so i made a Adventurer char to go around and get all the goodies and what not, and on my journies i came to a house and i got an idea in my head that i will probably use in the story with something along the lines like, "I had journied through The Great Forest for several days, and after my encounter with several of the wilderness beasts, i had ran out of rations so i went to the house to see if i could possably get some water or food."

And after that poped in my head i was inclined to go see who was in the house and i got in it and everything in there was thrashed, and i found noone, then when i made it to the attic i found like 2 familys worth of skeletal remains up there.

Ya'know, inspiration. My problem though is, i can keep what came up in my mind locked away until i go to sleep cus once i wake up i forgot how i wanted to do it and all that so i have to jott down what i want, and if i think that it was actually stupid when i wake up the next morning, i go and edit it to make it work with the rest of the story.

If your like me and write stories based on games, then playing the game MULTIPLE times, even if its the same story line over and over again it, to me at least, helps give you ideas and the like.

Well i think thats all my 2 cents.

Posted by: Fuzzy Knight Apr 3 2006, 04:50 PM

Great thread you've made here Trey, now as I've come back after a break from this place I see that it's a lot of good writes here now, good quality writing and good stories! As I've made a couple of stories myself they really just popped out of my head whilst I was on the computer and I didn't put time enough to really go deeper into the stories which made my two stories pretty much die over and over again even tho I really wanted to continue

I've read the replies here and you're tips Trey so hopefully I'll start something up after a while, story taking place in "Oblivion" But we'll see, still need to learn from you guys here since I only knew how to write about people fighting

Posted by: Kell-Reevor May 22 2006, 08:24 PM

I stumbled across this website during my neverending web browsing.

It's not so much as a process than it is a group of guides supplied by Elfwood that can help writers in need. I've read a few so far and learned a great deal.

http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/farp/writing.html?1557

Check out the "Character Creation Form" and the Villans essay.

I hope this helps some of us who feel we need it.

Note: the link may have trouble loading at times, just be patient and try again later.

Posted by: minque May 22 2006, 08:30 PM

Ah that site is great Kell! I´ve bookmarked it....it will certainly be of use for me...Thank you for sharing....

Posted by: The Ascendant May 22 2006, 09:10 PM

I haven't written anything that I've put on here, although I do often use Morrowind/Oblivion as inspiration for English coursework stories (and I get good marks ). I'm also writing a big long story that isn't based around TES at the moment. I might dig out one of my old English courseworks and post it here for you lot to read and criticise.

Anyway... my writing technique consists of me spending a while thinking of the next part of my story and then refining it, usually during my lessons I then begin to write it on computer as and when I get the chance, adding parts here and there as necessary or removing parts that don't fit at the time and pasting them in another document just in case. I won't often use those parts in the way I wrote them, but I may use them as a basis for a future part of the story.

I always have a vague idea of what I want to happen in the story and a few points it has to pass through to get there, although I generally have no idea as to how it's going to get to the next "set" point and just write parts as the ideas come to my head.

Posted by: treydog May 22 2006, 11:19 PM

Kell, that site is quite useful. I, too, will add it to my bookmarks.

Posted by: Mazelure May 22 2006, 11:54 PM

I normaly just think up of a character and what kind of a person he is... you know like if he is violant I'll start thinking about what kind of atrocities he has or will comitt... and the story will be based of his characteristics...

Posted by: Kayla May 23 2006, 12:53 AM

I have a spiral notebook that I keep and write ideas in. I basically write down EVERYTHING.

Before I write a story, I have the whole thing planned out, either in my head, or on paper, and I just go for it.

I type my stories out in Word, spell check them, read them to myself a few times and make sure everything sounds right.

Posted by: Zarrexaij May 24 2006, 03:06 AM

I have loads of notebooks filled with writing.

Every once in a while, I do this thing called "writing the bones". I sit down anywhere from five minutes to several hours writing the things that come to mind without any editting. Afterwards, I grab a snack, and edit stuff I wrote before. Ernest Hemmingway did something this.

Before I write, I plan out in my head what I want to do. I write a rough outline of what I want to happen. It has to be vague, because usually unconsciously I will break something specific. If I have any dreams relating to my story, I keep a journal of that with the notebook I have for that fan fiction. I'm constantly contemplating things for my story. Thusly, I know exactly what is going to happen in the next chapter... usually, at least.

I seldom do true roughdrafts of my work now. I used to, but now I just pretty much do the process of the bones and correct it. Sometimes that works pretty well. Othertimes it takes me days to complete a single chapter.

Posted by: The Wolf May 24 2006, 05:39 AM

Oh dear.... My writing technique (in itself inexistant) is simply to (argh, can't find any other word, have to rip Minque) daydream it. On my walk to school (or back home) I might get a good idea for writing. This was, of course, when I still wrote fanfic.

Nowadays, hell, I just daydream.

Posted by: burntsierra Jul 3 2006, 06:57 PM

Having looked through the fanfic section carefully over the last couple of days (after having been offline for the majority of the last few months) I think I've seen one problem a lot of the writer's here are facing. It's a fairly common one sadly, it's when writing the story stops becoming as much fun. You get new idea's you want to write about, new characters, new situations. Which is great. But, the one's on the go get left behind. There are quite a few stories that just when they were getting really interesting have just been dumped, looking ominously like they'll never be returned to. A shame as some had a great deal of promise. And which leads me to my point. Writing isn't just about the buzzword we all bandy about ( inspiration ), but is about discipline and finishing what we start. Not easy when our minds are screaming at us to write this new exciting plot, just desperate to get out.

If this sounds like a lecture I apologise, it's just the stories left unfinished had so much effort and thought put into them, it seems a shame to let them die. I for one would like to know how they end. So, for anyone wanting a task, here it is. Go back to that unfinished masterpiece and let us see how it ends

Posted by: jack cloudy Jul 3 2006, 07:05 PM

I'm still a daydreamer though I now actually put some time between the dreaming and the writing. It gives me more time to think things out. Inspiration is not a problem, I get it from the weirdest things that have absolutely nothing to do with the story. Discipline is a bigger problem but I can manage that one (barely).

Yes, those unfinished stories are kind of sad. But so are some of the finished ones. Sometimes I just want to continue with the same characters so much, I have to force myself to stop before I ruin the whole plot in a desperate attempt to keep things going.

Posted by: Kiln Jul 4 2006, 12:08 PM

Pretty much the same here, sometimes I grow too attached to the character and try to prolong the life of the story so I can continue to write about him.

Posted by: Ze Milanio Jul 4 2006, 02:39 PM

Welcomed To The club, I am [although, Yoda I am not].

I had really interesting morning today, with several poems clashing in my head... because I had so many opposing feelings, all too strong. And then, all those poems bursted out, flying away from me, leaving me nearly empty Inspiration is just like a flock of birds, fleeting, elusive; you have to not scare them away, and not try & catch them... you just have to watch them, admire them from distance... and then, describe them at once, when your impressions are freshest.
When I write, my base of events is elusive, unshapen, like a cloud... then, things that I've dreamed about or lived come to mind; wise things I've heard or read trough my life, encluding even videogames (Thank you, Morrowind ), and this somehow manages to help me make that 'cloud' more vivid, realistic and detailed. Sadly, this can sometimes take too much time and energy; such was the case with all my stories and few poems I wrote back in the day.

Posted by: The Metal Mallet Jul 5 2006, 03:34 AM

Well I have to say my process would be considered unprofessional.

With my current fic, I had the idea bottled up in my mind for a long time. I basically had the words from my first two posts branded into my mind. I just thought the concept was interesting. The problem was I didn't get motivated to get it out in words. I've tried before, but then I would lose it when hard drives had to get wiped due to viruses and such. Fortunately I discovered this site and now I have motivation!

I consider myself to be unprofessional because I just have to get the perfect words right away. I really dislike editing, I can't see the things I should change until it's too late. That makes sitting in front of the computer with Word kinda tedious so writing can be slow. Unless I'm really interested in it. My recent fight scene I wrote really quickly (which surprized me since I've never written one before). Then there's the parts where I'm approaching a really cool part in the story but writing the stuff leading to it is a little tedious, so I take a break.

Ohwell, once it's out and I hear the nice comments, it's worth the time.

Posted by: minque Jul 5 2006, 09:17 PM

I just want to say that I very much agree with my fellow Mod here.
The amount of stories in this section is amazing! It really shows how many talents there are out there! You´re good, all you writers, but I must say there are also quite a few stories that are abandoned and that is a shame.

So I will encourage you who have unfinished stories here to try to finish them, it would be of benefit for yourselves as well as for us, your readers! Show us just how talented you are!

And I promise..you´ll get many nice comments!!

Posted by: Sir Radont Jul 6 2006, 03:26 PM

I get a small spark of an idea, whether a bit of dialouge, an action or an entire scene, then I just concentrate on nothing but that story. A lot of times it winds up quite different from what I originally had planned. 'Neron' was going to be a one chapter story where his apprentice kills him at the end. My stories play in my head like movies and I just write what I see. If I could type with my eyes closed it would be a lot easier.

Also, I try not to write anything without my iTunes playing. I have playlists for writing different scenes, like fighting, emotional, contemplative, etc. That has helped a lot.

Posted by: minque Jul 6 2006, 09:38 PM

Now that was a good idea!....I´ll try it out when I get the contents of my HD back and can continue writing! Back at high school I always listened to different music when doing different homworks..

For example, Beethoven goes wonderfully with physics!!!!

Posted by: Kell-Reevor Jul 27 2006, 06:21 PM

This isn't so much of a process as it is a tool.

There are many ways for readers to identify a character's personality. IE through verbal quotes, his or her actions, descriptions of their past, etc. One method that can really strengthen the bond between character and reader is by sewing the character's personality/feelings into the text itself. (Wow, that sounded familiar, I can't help but wonder if I already mentioned this or read it somewhere.)

This is something I used in the past and have recently ressurected for more practice. Here is an example that might prove I need more work, but I feel get's the focus character's mood across:

***
The tech dug a finger into his ear and gave it a good twist, tuning out his superior's lecture. The old fart must really be pissed today. Still, he was bound to give up eventually, then the tech could go back to whatever he was supposed to be doing. What a wonderful career.
***

Maybe that wasn't such a good example, but it is a great alternative to simply stating that the character was somewhat indifferent to his superior's rage.

I'll admit I havn't read many fictions posted here lately, and I am curious to know how many other writers have attempted to use this method and how you feel about it.

Posted by: The Metal Mallet Jul 27 2006, 06:41 PM

Yea, I attempt to do that when writing in my fic. I want to give my characters human feelings so I try to incoporate emotion within the sometimes ordinary actions done by the characters. If it's just action, action, action, with no feeling behind it, I think reading it would become a little stale. Emotion is what connects a reader to the character. Them being a homicidal maniac or a serial killer, or a superhero is just an added bonus.

I don't believe I have perfected integrating emotion and feeling into my work yet, I am still quite young. But I do hope I get better at it so that readers will like my work.

Posted by: minque Jul 29 2006, 10:30 PM

Emotions? Hm I think I include that all the time in my story...that is when I get the chance of writing!

Posted by: Mazelure Jul 29 2006, 11:11 PM

I think that most of my work is pretty much based off emotions. Well not completley all emotions but it does have alot of emotions involved. Maybe not happy or fruitful emotions... maybe not even good emotions... but atleast they are emotions. Man... I'm am making no sense.

Posted by: treydog Nov 11 2006, 02:21 AM

One of the things I discussed in this thread was the dreaded writer’s block. It strikes most of us at one time or another, and can hang on for varying lengths of time. Usually, it takes the form of being unable to write or to “write anything good.” But sometimes, it takes the form of “doing other stuff” instead of writing. That isn’t always a negative- sometimes you need to give your brain a chance to rest and recharge. Of course, it is also possible that the reason you are “doing other stuff” is to avoid something else- like writing.

To get down to specifics, anyone who has been following Trey knows that a climactic fight with Karrod is coming up real soon now. And it has been getting ready to happen real soon now for a couple of weeks (at least). Meanwhile, the writer has had his head stuck in Oblivion for about a month and doesn’t seem to show any inclination to get on with the story. And I have a feeling that my obsession may have been avoidance behavior. What I have done is put tremendous pressure on myself to describe the coming duel. It has to be epic, funny, astounding, and historic. It has to be the best fight scene in the history of Western literature…. And that is the trap. It isn’t enough that I just write it- it has to be perfect. But I know that I cannot write a perfect fight scene (or any other kind). But- maybe if I wait a day or 2 (or 20)- maybe the gods will smile on me, the planets will align, and my pen will sprout wings and fly across the page- effortlessly, producing that “perfect” scene. Right.

What it comes down to is this- pride can be just as crippling as doubt. And the only way past writer’s block is to write your way out of it. Which I shall try to do. Any day now.

Posted by: The Metal Mallet Nov 11 2006, 04:18 AM

Writer's block is definately dreaded among us writers. It's interesting that you bring up pride for causing writer's block. I can certainly see that as true, especially in a case where you want everything to be perfect the instant you write it down, which is most often not the case.

Fortunately, I haven't really hit a true moment of writer's block yet with my 'Bloodlust' fic. I've at least made my one update a week quota that I've set up for myself. I actually like that setup because it isn't as excruciating to write when you know you have a week to work on it if you want to. I generally have a period at least once a week where I can sit at the computer and have nothing to really do but write for 4-7 hours, which is quite fortunate for me. But I certainly know that not everyone has a schedule like mine to do that.

Also, during a moment of time where I'm not doing anything and I'm away from my computer, I write down a "loose plotline" for future updates. Basically I just jot down point form notes of what I want to focus on for an update (which in most cases centers around one character).

I still haven't planned far enough to know when I'm going to finish though, which is good and bad, because I'm going to be very excited in finishing it, but also quite sad that I'll be leaving those characters behind. Unless I do a sequel

Posted by: Black Hand Nov 11 2006, 11:11 AM

I dont get writers block it would seem...there are days that go by between my updates though....how do I solve it?

I play morrowind.

Yes, when Black Hand returns home from his god-forsaken job that god mocks him in every moment he is forced to endure it (did I mention I hate my job?) he plays Morrowind still!!

I spent a good year power playing, exploiting cheats, running everywhere, finishing every quest until I realized....playing morrowind outside a Rp regimen sucks....

The former "Sethyas Velas or "Lord Velas" Was a Dunmer with the Scar-face with One Thousand Strength and Endurance with a full set of Daedric Armor....on XBox,...apologies to Divayth Fyr.

When you read things like "I unlsung my bow, and nocked an arrow and killed the Orc from the Balmora Guard Tower at Five O'clock, and no bounty was issued because I was too far from any guards to notice it" I WAS on the Balmora Guard Tower pracitcing assassinations in-game.

I try to bring the actual gameplay to my story as much as possible to keep things fresh.

And no. I dont think through what my story is beforehand. I sit down, I read my last post to see where I left off and I try to improv most of it, You read my rough draft as it were.

Maybe this will help some folks out there.

Posted by: jack cloudy Nov 11 2006, 03:09 PM

That's what I did with Oasis. When writing fanfics, nothing beats playing the game itself to get a feeling.

Though writer's block doesn't seem to be a problem with me.

I'd like to add that the most important thing is knowing your characters.

Posted by: canis216 Nov 13 2006, 05:36 PM

I just sit down and bang out my stories when I feel like writing. Usually doesn't take much longer than half an hour. But, of course, I'm embracing a shorter and less continuous format for my tales, and not demanding such a high standard of wordsmither from myself than I do in my other writing. For generating ideas, however, I think nothing beats just sitting down at the computer or notebook and just letting words spill out. You can always change them later.

Posted by: The Metal Mallet Jan 6 2008, 08:23 AM

I just thought I'd bump this thread considering the recent addition of a few newer writers to our fan fiction forum. Perhaps they'd like to share with their techniques as well?

As for my current product, I'm trying something new: writing in the first person. Personally, I never really felt the notion to do any writing in first person until I visited this forum. I'm pretty sure every novel I've ever read has always been third person, so whenever I done any creative writing myself, I've just felt more compelled to do third person than anything else. I also usually write in 3rd person because then I'm allowed to delve into the mind of any character I want to.

Since I've been to these forums though, I've realized that you can tell write a very compelling story using first person. So, with my latest work I've decided to give it a shot. Hopefully it turns out well.

Posted by: canis216 Jan 6 2008, 09:05 AM

Thread necromancy... approved.

From the opener, it looks like your plunge into 1st-person should be fascinating. As anyone who's read my stuff knows, I like to bounce back and forth (read: too lazy to put in the effort that one single perspective demands), and I find trying different styles to be refreshing.

Posted by: Olen Jan 6 2008, 05:30 PM

Mallet: try reading Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb for a full novel in 1st person. Its not the best but its still well worth it.

As for my technique well I haven't posted here yet seeing as I've got to the 15k this is rubbish moment (I always seem to get between 15 and 17k into a story and decide its rubbish and must never see the light of day but with a re write it might pass).

Anyway forgive me the style its written in as I adapted it from a post made on another forum so it has a rather instructional tone...


Five steps to a story:

1. Work out roughly what happens. Take a walk in the park, sit with some paper and a few ciders, go for a run, do some weights, whatever. Get a basic idea. There's no right way to do this because it doesn't matter. Now sit and think on it, this is especially good to do as you fall asleep. Try fusing ideas together, or changing bits to make them quite different - play around. Once one really sings to you go to step two.

All you should have now is something like 'Empire falling apart without emperor so a group decide to put up a false heir to save it but their good motives go sour.'

2. Make a suitable character. This should be more part 1b really as its hard to make a character to fit a part and still make them deep so think about both the idea and character at the same time. Edit the idea as necessary. Once you know them answer the following questions: What do they want? Why do they want need it? What's stopping them from getting it? Why are they being stopped?

And bam - in those questions you have the core of the plot and a few more ideas should be forming.

Like with 1 and 2, 3 and 4 are somewhat concurrent processes.

3. Plot. What is going to happen? No need for too much detail but enough to put in foreshadowing and hooks to hold the reader in. Plan a few ‘chocolate scenes’, ie ones which will be really fun to read and write. Work out how to get between them.

Also work out how you main characters will develop (don't forget the antagonist). If anyone very major doesn't develop then go back and change them (I've heard tell of agents writing 'Who cares?' at the bottom of manuscripts where characters didn't develop - brutal but to the point).

4. Surroundings. Finalise the setting, obviously its the TES world here but when and where? You have a fair bit of leeway in how to show it, is it past its glory days and a dark dangerous place where the younger generation made desperate by unemployment is forced to go dungeon crawling and robbing or is it a shining land of heroes? Is the emperor wise and just or is he distant and uncaring? There’s a lot of choice in interpretation.

Also plan some background characters, I find it useful to have a character near the main who will conflict and show things about the protagonist which otherwise may be difficult. Work out your antagonist as well, what does he want and why?

5. Brush up the plot a bit then go write. New characters come easily. Edit the previous bits as needed. If you want to change something then do it. Its part of the process. If can be bothered it will be better for a re write but really just give it overnight and read though before posting and it will be fine.

Well that’s more or less how I do it. I find the planning pays off once you get in as you know what’s to happen next.

There’s quite a bit of interesting stuff here: http://www.hollylisle.com/fm/ and here http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/art/snowflake.php


Thats what I generally do though I tend to run aground at 15-20k words as I said so maybe it doesn't work so well.

Posted by: redsrock Jan 6 2008, 09:40 PM

Lol, I'm currently on 36k words with my story...

Posted by: 0rimus Apr 27 2008, 07:34 AM

This is a rant so hold onto your pockets.
Everything I've learned about writing in school has been a giant, uninterpretable contradiction.
Extrapolation: How to start a story. Most people will agree that the start of a story is very important, if not the most important part. Every teacher I've ever had has said: "Make sure the beginning is interesting and grabs the readers attention." This, is retarded. Either by my own skewed definitions, or because I'm using the words in the wrong context, this sentence is contradictory to another overly used phrase: "The climax is the most exciting part of the story and IS USUALLY AT THE END OF A STORY."
Now, yes I realize you can have an exciting part without it necissarily being the MOST exciting, but why? Why? Why? Why? Why?

*SPOILER WARNINGS FOR THE LORD OF THE RINGS AND FARENHEIT 451*

I'll reiterate what I said earlier; either I'm a moron, or teachers are using the wrong terms.
Elaboration: I perhaps tie the word "interesting" with the near-synonimous word "fascinating". And this may be a fault on my part. Explosions grab my attention, so do loud noises, or sudden movements out of the corner of my eye. But some things don't, most things don't; amd futhermore somethings SHOULDN'T. If this above statement was true, every story that started with: "And the wagon imploded into a ball of fire.." would be a success. But writing a book is not about shock and awe. Now I'll use an example of how an uniteresting beginning can be arguably better. Concerning Hobbits. Do I think that entire beginning chapter was interesting? No. Did it grab my attention? No. Did I enjoy it? No. Did I read that entire trilogy anyway? You bet your boots. For the illiterate, I'm of course speaking of the Lord of the Rings. The de facto "Best work of literature of the 20th century." I'm sure that many would like to argue, but I'm certain in their hearts they agree.
Another benefit of a slower story is to actually purposely lose readers. If they're not interested in your writing, why should they read it? I find it depresing sometimes. Another example: Farenheit 451. We're reading it in my english class. It starts out with a man holding a fire hose, but instead of water it's shooting out kerosene, and instead of grim determination, the mans face has a childish gleeful expression.
How can you not want to find out more about that? Yet still my classmates threw $hit and ignored the story completely. I mean sure, Ray was a little long winded (an understatement) and even I lost a little interest at some points, but I read the story anyway while my peers were lost in stupidity. The only conclusion I could come to is that they didn't want to find out more. They weren't interested, were not grabbed by this intro at all. And I'm glad. Ingnorant tards shouldn't reap benefits for something they didn't work for. I'm not going to drag someones dead overweight carcass into a story. I simply propose a replacement: Provoke thought. Anyone can be interested in something if its action-filled and laced with overly-flambouyant words. But to actually provoke thought, that's altogether genuine; unique. Many will not be provoked. But those who are will begin to think! And what a beautiful thing that is. People attribute Tolkien's work to good description, which is true; but really it was HOW it was written, not so much the words used. And that is what created such a beautiful picture in so many people's minds: What kept that book alive. And not to brag; but probably what kept you reading to this point.
My point? Don't fight so hard to make your readers, uh, read. Obviously don't make your story UNITERESTING. Just keep in mind that you're leading up to the climax, not starting from it. Provoke thought and wonder, and don't overdo descrption. Don't carry your audience, but don't let them sink to the bottom either, to be figurative. Lol, there's that rant in five sentences. Oh, and thanks for reading.

Posted by: paragenic Apr 28 2008, 04:51 PM

Change the font, line spacing, font size, and character spacing of your text, as you are writing it, on a regular basis. It helps when you're re-reading to catch spelling mistakes, forgotten words, etc. It also helps you just a little bit to see the text as though you were the reader.

It gets hard to re-read and still feel objective when you are so familiar with your own text you know the word at the end of the line before you've read it. Change the layout frequently to keep you on your toes.

Posted by: paragenic Apr 28 2008, 04:54 PM

Oh, yes of course AND when reviewing remember the surgeon's mantra:

When in doubt, cut it out

Posted by: treydog May 2 2008, 01:08 PM

In response to the advice to "make it interesting," I think about Shakespeare. When we read his plays, we are missing the most important thing- the atmosphere. His audiences were largely illiterate; he had to grab them right away.... So, a standard technique is to "Enter two guys in the middle of a conversation." Immediately, the audience starts to pay attention, because they have questions-

who are these guys? Where are they? What are they talking about? What is happening?

You can do similar things with the opening of your story. Jump right into the middle and tell the reader to hang on for the ride. Use flashbacks and dialogue to fill in the blanks- but don't do it all at once. Leave some mystery. Leave the reader wondering, "And then what happened?"

Posted by: bbqplatypus Aug 29 2008, 02:10 AM

I'm of the opinion that there is no single right way to begin a story. To begin a story in medias res is a classic, tried and true technique to grab the reader's attention. However, keep in mind that it often delays certain necessary expository dialogue and explanation to later on in the story, which affects pacing. Different stories merit different narratives, and therefore different beginnings.

And speaking of exposition, I've always found that it's best to include as little of that as possible. Only explain as much as is absolutely necessary for your audience to appreciate the story. Some things are actually better left unexplained. If there's an offhand reference to something in-universe that isn't important to the plot, don't explain it. It helps add to the atmosphere of the story - the feeling that the world in which the story takes place is bigger than the action you're describing. The original Star Wars is a great example of this.

As for my writing process, I'm kind of a hybrid between the "high school term paper" school of planning everything ahead and the Stephen King school of making everything up as you write it.

Take the story I'm working on right now for instance (http://chorrol.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4129&pid=107309&st=20&#entry107308 cough, cough). In the time between updates, I usually have some story ideas swirling around in my head that slowly start to crystallize into a sorta story. On rare occasions, I'll even make an outline. But it's not until I start typing and I can see the words in front of me that the story starts to become fleshed out and I can put it together in a way that makes sense. (And I always type, by the way - my handwriting is far too slow to convey my ideas as they come).

For example, in the part of the story where (SPOILERS AHEAD! BWOOP! BWOOP!) Grignr goes to talk to Vivec, I thought it would be a good idea to put an "establishing scene" to convey a sense of the setting. (This is an important part of writing fiction, by the way - you want to let the reader know where the story is taking place in an efficient, unobtrusive manner - otherwise the story starts to feel like it's detached from time and space). After finishing the first sentence, I thought "Hey, wait a minute? Why not do this from the perspective of the back of a moving gondola?" And then the idea came to me: Grignr could have a conversation with the gondolier! This would be a great opportunity to show him interacting with the common people of Morrowind, and to display how he is viewed by them. After all, it makes sense that he would be rather famous, and it would additionally make the "establishing" more subtle while developing his character to boot! It's one of those little touches that your really can't plan in advance.

It's largely for this reason that I do most of my writing in fits and starts. I DON'T do my work in the "Submit Reply" section, of course - that would be stupid. Nor do I simply do one update at a time (though I come close to that at times). Rather I set out with a certain goal in mind of where I want to end the next update, plow my way through it, and then keep writing for a little while so I get a general idea of how the next update will begin before going back and editing. Sometimes my momentum carries me far enough ahead so that I can get two or three updates worth of material done. I try not to get too far ahead of myself, though. I'm really not much farther ahead in the story than my readers are.

One more thing I like to try to do is end the update on an appropriate note (whether a cliffhanger, an emotional part, a zippy repartee from one of the characters, or just an indication of what lies ahead). If you don't end it right, it just makes everything feel a bit hollow, and the whole thing just sort of falls to pieces.

...

...

...

Crap. I've run out of things to say.

Posted by: canis216 Nov 16 2008, 06:40 PM

I'm posting this to sort of show how I'm struggling through a bit o' writer's block. The following is writing/idea regurgitation for an essay I'm doing to meet a requirement for picking up my Master's degree. It takes the form of the travel or "on the road" essay, but also I think serves as a sort of meditation upon the big spaces and big changes going on in the Rocky Mountain region, big sky country. It centers around a trip from Lander, Wyoming to Missoula, Montana on 4th of July weekend, 2008. Comments/questions/suggestions are encouraged.

Road weary and bleary-eyed I pull off of the state highway at a rest stop somewhere west of Rexburg, in the high sagebrush desert. I park in the dimmest spot I can find, force the driver’s seat into a reclining position, and pull out my sleeping bag, greasy with sweat and farts and near non-stop use. It is 1 A.M. and I have been up for 18 hours—going through some kind of hell just to make Fourth of July in Missoula.

Friday of Fourth of July weekend and I’m aching to get the hell out of Wyoming, to be anywhere but stuck on the roadside an hour outside of Lander, on the wrong side of South Pass. A problem with the fuel pump, and then some, on the U.S. government Chevy Suburban that my co-workers and I have started to call the Death Trap. We have places to go,


I can’t sit still

Chronology:

Get back to [insert bad word ending in -ing] Lander (finally):
broken speedometer on the tow truck
baby on board
stuck on South Pass
Share soda with Michael

The way out in Wyoming:
Wind River Indian reservation
Ft. Washakie – Native American Art dealer, “Ancient Ways”
Crowheart and its gas station
Mountains on my left, Gannett, Wolverine
Along the Wind River
Dubois
Togwotee Pass – emerge from the shell of metal and plastic, piss
Highway 26
Moran Junction and through Teton National Park
Moose and elk throwing themselves in front of my car
Jackson- want to see people through something other than my windshield
Stop at Wendy’s
Filled with self-doubt

Out from Jackson and over the pass:
Crossing the Snake but can’t see a damn thing
Up and over the pass, only headlights and signs telling me to slow down
Taking note of campgrounds on the way (Expand to discuss my extra-legal camping habits?)

Idaho:
Victor- stop and get gas @ $4.20 gallon. Lucky I get 30 mpg. Across the street from the Emporium w/its malt shop
Driggs- big damn houses, trail work in the mountains w/”THC Tuesday”? Probably leave out the THC, doesn’t add up to much
Series of small towns I don’t know well, on to skirting Rexburg, missing Idaho Falls entirely (thankfully)
Stop for sleep somewhere short of Mud Lake

Posted by: The Bean Nov 16 2008, 11:15 PM

After reading this thread, I've come to conclusion that my writing method is rather odd.

When most people seem to have a rough idea of how the story goes, I just think of a beginning and a climax, and leave blank space in between for stuff to happen.

For example, in my current project, Grey Knight, I had the beginning 2 chapters as an idea (space marine fights daemons, gets dragged into warp), and the climax (massive siege of the Imperial city). Between these, it's just filled as I write.

Posted by: seerauna Nov 17 2008, 12:28 AM

It's not that strange, Bean. I do that too. Except I usually get a random idea for something smack in the middle and I'll record it so I don't forget it. I have a whole three pages of random stuff on Word.

Posted by: canis216 Nov 17 2008, 12:33 AM

Yeah, I don't think your method is all that strange. The Hammerfell story I'm working on right now is in a similar situation. I know (more or less) how I'm ending it, and I have a chunk of the beginning written, but all the stuff in the middle is uncertain.

Posted by: canis216 Nov 17 2008, 01:47 AM

Current progress on my stuff above:
-------------------------------------------

Road weary and bleary-eyed I pull off of the state highway at a rest stop somewhere west of Rexburg, in the high sagebrush desert. I park in the dimmest spot I can find, force the driver’s seat into a reclining position, and pull out my sleeping bag, greasy with sweat and farts and near non-stop use. It is 1 A.M. and I have been up for 18 hours—going through some kind of hell just to make Fourth of July in Missoula.

I’ve been aching to get the hell out of Wyoming, land of the sun-baked skull, the suicidal jackrabbit, the sulfur stinking oil wells, and the starvation-crazed mosquito. The land where the government-issued Chevy Suburban conks out sixty miles short of Lander on Friday the [freaking] third of July, when all are desperate to be anywhere but stuck on South Pass watching cheat grass cure in the sun as traffic blasts by.

I’m three hours late getting out of Lander. What does that mean? It means, even in the deliriously long days of summer, that I will reach Jackson well after dark. Jackson is only real population center on this night’s itinerary (in these parts a permanent population of 9000-plus is plenty big) and my route leaves me no choice but drive right through the heart of a tourist town in high vacation season. Complicating this trouble is the fact that I’ve never before been to Jackson—I don’t know the streets.
---------------------------------------------

1st graph and the rest don't flow temporally, but that's fixable later. I guess I'm giving a window on how I'm breaking my creative drought.

Posted by: canis216 Nov 17 2008, 04:35 AM

More progress. Why am I clogging the thread with this? It's a way of keeping motivated, I guess, and measuring my progress. Got to have goals of some sort.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Road weary and bleary-eyed I pull off of the state highway at a rest stop somewhere west of Rexburg, in the high sagebrush desert. I park in the dimmest spot I can find, force the driver’s seat into a reclining position, and pull out my sleeping bag, greasy with sweat and farts and near non-stop use. It is 1 A.M. and I have been up for 18 hours—going through some kind of hell just to make Fourth of July in Missoula.

I’ve been aching to get the hell out of Wyoming, land of the sun-baked skull, the suicidal jackrabbit, the sulfur stinking oil well, and the starvation-crazed mosquito. The land where the government-issued Chevy Suburban conks out sixty miles short of Lander on Friday the [freaking] third of July, when all are desperate to be anywhere but stuck on South Pass watching cheat grass cure in the sun as traffic blasts by.

I’m three hours late getting out of Lander. What does that mean? It means, even in the deliriously long days of summer, that I will reach Jackson well after dark. Jackson is only real population center on this night’s itinerary (in these parts a permanent population of 9000 is plenty big) and my route leaves me no choice but drive right through the heart of a tourist town in high vacation season. Complicating this trouble is the fact that I’ve never before been to Jackson—I don’t know the streets.

But all that comes later. Out of Lander—what a relief!—I can crank the stereo and cruise along at a safe and sane (and blessedly legal) 65 through the western reach of the Wind River reservation, ogling the odd ranch and the more exotic of the billboards, which almost exclusively advertise for trading posts of some ilk. There is one place in Fort Washakie, “Ancient Ways” that makes me think of my friend in Tucson, the one who wants to start his own tribe—never mind that he’s already an Apache. But—like most drivers’ glimpses of these tiny reservation towns—the thought is fleeting. It is difficult to draw out a memory and focus on it, grasp it, when the ever-varying landscape and the golden light of late afternoon assault and entice the eyes with vision after vision. The hills are the color of honey—it hasn’t rained in two weeks—and the high peaks of the west all bear crowns of snow.

Somewhere past Crowheart (population: gas station) the highway descends to the level of the Wind River, winding its way through a red rock canyon reminiscent of Utah. Lovely. The river leads me on to Dubois (population: 991) and beyond, to the high country of Togwotee Pass and the Wind River range, Wyoming’s tallest mountains—more than forty named 13,000 foot peaks. The pass itself rises to nearly 10,000 feet, and when I emerge from my shell of GM metal and plastic to walk on my own two legs, feed some mosquitoes, and piss, the air is marvelously cool, an ecstasy utterly denied in my last few weeks of wading through the shadeless sagebrush desert counting cheat grass and Russian thistle.

Posted by: bbqplatypus Nov 17 2008, 08:53 AM

I also know exactly what Bean is talking about. I'm pretty much in the same boat for my next story. Then again, it's probably going to end up being the longest story I've ever written (assuming it ever gets completed).



By the way, that's some good writing there, canis. It can be pretty damn hard to get something in essay form to be entertaining, and you've certainly managed it.

(Not that I don't love writing "entertaining" essays, of course - I actually liked my Non-Fiction writing course better than my Fiction Writing course).

Posted by: canis216 Nov 17 2008, 05:03 PM

Well, it is meant to be an entertainment, that's for sure. I'm really going for, eventually, a sort of gonzo vibe with this piece. The trouble, of course, is that my thoughts during all of this were considerably more off-beat than my actions. Wildest thing I did all the weekend was sit barea$$ naked in an ice-cold mountain stream outside of Missoula, in a really, really popular hiking spot. Regrettably (for purposes of a really funny way to end the story) nobody stumbled upon me while I was doing it.

Posted by: treydog Nov 17 2008, 06:31 PM

Well...how completely "non-fiction" does it have to be? When I was teaching the narrative in Composition I, I always quoted from the beginning of "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean":

"If this isn't the way things happened, it should have been."

In other words, never let facts get in the way of a good story. Or you can even riff off of a "All the things that might have happened" fantasy.



Different discussion- back to process stuff. I am firmly committed to the belief that there is no "right way" to write. (Other than making the effort to get words on the page). I hardly ever "start at the beginning" with any of my writing. For my current story, I had the idea of the character for a long time, and knew that he would go to Solstheim. And I know the ending- I have had that written for a couple of years, now. All I have done since I imagined the character and the ending is to build the bridge that gets him from where he started to where I need him to go....

Posted by: canis216 Nov 18 2008, 03:24 AM

With first person nonfiction I think embellishment is riskier. I'm trying to maintain pretty high fidelity to the actual events, though I might mix in a bit from the couple other trips I eventually made between Lander and Missoula. But at least that stuff actually happened--I'd just be messing with time slightly.

Posted by: canis216 Nov 29 2008, 01:57 AM

Here's some more progress on the stuff I've been posting in here. An evolving essay, by Vehk!

-----------------------------------------------------------


Road weary and bleary-eyed I pull off of the state highway at a rest stop somewhere west of Rexburg, in the high sagebrush desert. I park in the dimmest spot I can find, force the driver’s seat into a reclining position, and pull out my sleeping bag, greasy with sweat and farts and near non-stop use. It is 1 A.M. and I have been up for 18 hours—going through some kind of hell just to make Fourth of July in Missoula.

I’ve been aching to get the hell out of Wyoming, land of the sun-baked skull, the suicidal jackrabbit, the sulfur stinking oil well, and the starvation-crazed mosquito. The land where the government-issued Chevy Suburban conks out sixty miles short of Lander on Friday the [censored] third of July, when all are desperate to be anywhere but stuck on South Pass watching cheat grass cure in the sun as traffic blasts by.

No cell phone coverage, of course, so I flag down a passing motorist. Somewhere down the road she will call in a tow truck from town.

I’m three hours late getting out of Lander. What does that mean? It means, even in the deliriously long days of summer, that I will reach Jackson well after dark. Jackson is only real population center on this night’s itinerary (in these parts a permanent population of 9000 is plenty big) and my route leaves me no choice but drive right through the heart of a tourist town in high vacation season. Complicating this trouble is the fact that I’ve never before been to Jackson—I don’t know the streets.

But all that comes later. Out of Lander—what a relief!—I can crank the stereo in my own (reliable) automobile and cruise along at a safe and sane (and blessedly legal) 65 through the western reach of the Wind River reservation, ogling the odd ranch and the more exotic of the billboards, which almost exclusively advertise for trading posts of some ilk. There is one place in Fort Washakie, “Ancient Ways” that makes me think of my friend in Tucson, the one who wants to start his own tribe—never mind that he’s already part Apache. But—like most drivers’ glimpses of these tiny reservation towns—the thought is fleeting. It is difficult to draw out a memory and focus on it, grasp it, when the ever-varying landscape and the golden light of late afternoon assault and entice the eyes with vision after vision. The hills are the color of honey—it hasn’t rained in two weeks—and the high peaks of the west all bear crowns of snow.

Somewhere past Crowheart (population: gas station) the highway descends to the level of the Wind River, winding its way through a red rock canyon reminiscent of Utah. Lovely. The river leads me on to Dubois (population: 991) and beyond, to the high country of Togwotee Pass and the Wind River range, Wyoming’s tallest mountains—more than forty named 13,000 foot peaks. The pass itself rises to nearly 10,000 feet, and when I emerge from my shell of GM metal and plastic to walk on my own two legs, feed some mosquitoes, and piss, the air is marvelously cool, an ecstasy utterly denied in my last few weeks of wading through the shadeless sagebrush desert counting cheat grass and Russian thistle.

Sunset is drawing near. Even as the highway descends the pass and grows ever more curvaceous I find it difficult to stay focused on the drive. I am presented with the precipitous eastern front of the Teton Range, the iconic Grand Teton (or, simply, The Grand) framed by the wall of subalpine fir and Engelmann spruce on either side of the road. An incurable shutterbug, I am tempted to pull over onto the scant shoulder and set up my tripod in the middle the road—the framing is that good. An insane notion surely—the road is nearly empty but not nearly that empty. After a brief period of agitation—my incurable itch to capture the moment—I pass a combination gas station and RV mega-campground and traffic starts to pick up. The sun flares out in a final explosion of salmon, fuchsia, and orange-hued light as I approach the outer limits of Grand Teton National Park. My pleasant high country jaunt is over.

Night falls. At Moran Junction I turn south onto U.S. 191, thereby avoiding a trip through Yellowstone National Park, its motorized hordes, and its entrance fees. At this point it less than 50 miles to Jackson and I am eager to get there. I’m not particularly in a hurry—whether the drive to Missoula takes nine or ten hours doesn’t really matter much in the scheme of things—but I passed on dinner in Lander. I’m hungry.

There is plenty of meat on the hoof. There are bison, elk, and moose roaming the benchlands above the Snake River and I spend much of the drive through the park in dread, cursing my feeble headlights and the blinding on-coming traffic, waiting for some equally agitated ungulate to step out in front of my car. Thankfully it only happens twice—one moose, one elk—and I am able to slow down in time to avert disaster.

Posted by: bbqplatypus Dec 8 2008, 03:14 AM

Right now I'm doing something that I've never really done before - write "ahead" in the story. I did it for the epilogue of The Interim, but that isn't as large as the section I'm doing right now.

Like much of the spare-time writing I'm doing right now, it's dedicated to that big, ambitious mega-story that I keep talking about but may or may not see the light of day. And I think it's a damn good segment. The problem is, how am I going to set it up?

I have a vague idea of how to proceed, but I want to put as much work and research into it as I can so I make it the best it can be, and avoid any horrible lore faux pas.

Not really much point to this post, I just felt like making it.

Posted by: Olen Sep 14 2009, 11:39 PM

Well this took some finding (why is it in Treydog's section?).

Here's a quandry I've been considering for a while and which doesn't seem to have been mentioned here. What is the ideal length for posting a section of story? Of course it will vary from story to story and from part to part but as a ballpark figure i have no idea. Looking through the fanfic section here I've seen posts of well under 1000 right up to nearly 3000 words in multipart epics. Too long and readers will shy away at the thought of 'reading all that right now' and decide to come back later (and never get round to it), too short and its a bit unsatisfying.

I like to write my stories up before I post them so I can do a 1.5 draft (2nd draft is a bit too grand for just reading through and taking kinks from the story line and deleting a few unessesary scenes) before I put it up. So its not even just how much I wrote that session, and as I'm coming to the end of one and beginning to think about formatting it into a postable form I thought I'd ask. What sort of post length and frequency is best?


EDIT: I'm claiming this isn't threadromancy because this thread still deserves daylight and deals with this topic so another's not needed

Posted by: treydog Sep 15 2009, 12:20 AM

As to the first- I guess because I originated it... and there kind of isn't a place for "meta-topic" threads. [shrug]

As to length, I tend to shoot for around 1000 to 1500 words per post. That isn't an especially rigid rule- just what seems "comfortable" to me. And, as I tend to think of my stories as "serial novels," that allows for the dreaded cliff-rac..., um cliff-hanger endings. In truth, like a lot of what I have done, it was rather more accidental than calculated... I tend to run out of steam after 3 or 4 pages and need to sit back and consider. I try to have a few installments prepared in advance, but that doesn't always happen.

In more general terms- "there aren't any rules in a knife fight!" My feeling is that the writer should find a "good stopping place." For some, it is a whole chapter- for others, 500-600 words. Ideally, a post should move the story forward, yet be digestable. Early on, I tried to post every day; in retrospect, probably not a good idea. Esp. as comments seem to have gotten kind of sparse, a schedule of once every 2 or 3 days or maybe even a longer interval might be better.

Regardless, I will anticipate reading your work with great pleasure.

Posted by: canis216 Sep 15 2009, 03:55 AM

I don't shoot for any fixed number. I just find a good stopping point, and then I stop. I like Trey's thinking about "serial novels", except I'm just about the opposite when it comes to cliff hangers. I like to think that it makes the cliff hangers I do use a little more powerful than they otherwise would be, since there are generally few of them. This was especially true, I think, when I first started writing about Always-He-Lingers-in-the-Sun, my argonian assassin. The series started as one-shots in the Temple of Lore, and many of the subsequent updates tell one story--the stalking and killing of one person or set of persons.

For the forum I tend to write my stories in one burst, with very little editing. In this sense I am coasting on talent--relying on my ability to spin an interesting yarn in interesting language on the fly, while making very few mistakes. (This is also how I went through most of college--I'm basically a slacker, I just happen to be a talented slacker.) As I get older I edit more, take more care, but often times the stuff I labor over lacks the vitality of some of my more hurried work. It's an odd balance--spontaneity v. polish.

Posted by: Illydoor Sep 15 2009, 04:22 PM

It depends on how you feel really. I'd say around 1500-2000 words is a good number - you want something substantial enough to entertain the reader, but not so big so it scares people away. I suppose it also kinds of depends what forum you're on. On one site I had to post it in 500-a-piece chapters cos' over that ran onto two pages!

Still, it's up to you and wherever you feel comfortable, but make sure you can still pick up where you've left off at the end.

Posted by: Olen Mar 19 2010, 11:34 PM

Seeing as we have so many new members I thought I might wave the staff of threadromancy and resurrect this one because it's a good thread (and was still at the top of Trey's forum anyway).

I must say I think it would be better placed in the main fanfic forum to be honest, possibly even stickied (or something in a similar vein to it created).

Anyway those who haven't posted here, any interesting bits of writing process?

Posted by: SubRosa Mar 20 2010, 12:22 AM

Looking back over some of the comments, I find I have come to the same conclusion as the dog and Illydoor on post length and frequency.

When I write, I do it a chapter at a time, and let them become as long as they need to be. I do not care about the length then, just that I convey the things I need to. When I go to post however, it is a different story. I try to stick to that length of 1-2k words per post when I can so as to not overwhelm the reader with a wall of text. So I only post one or two scenes of a chapter at at time to keep the posts in that range. Or I break in the middle of scene if there is a good place. Sometimes they run longer if there is just no good spot to do that. I do not want to lose the power of a scene just to keep it under 2k words.

I also try to space out my posts by at least two days apart, so there is time for people to come across each post and read it before the next one. Since any given chapter might be 2, 3, or more posts (my biggest was 6) it also gives me time to start writing the next chapter while I am still posting the previous one.

When it comes to drafts, I typically do four to five drafts. The first draft is the first write through of the chapter from end to end, and takes me several days, sometimes as much as a week, depending on how large the chapter is. I typically write only about 2-3k words a day. It all depends on how inspired I am and how much time I have to waste invest in it. At 15k words, Through A Nightmare Darkly took me a full week to do the first draft. I suspect that compared to some people I am a slow writer. But I also spend a lot of time and effort trying to get the first draft as best as I can. So I will spend five minutes looking for synonyms for a single word rather than leaving that for a later draft.

After that the following drafts are easier. I go through the chapter from end to end again and look for things like continuity and grammar errors. I only do one draft a day, otherwise I miss things. I need fresh eyes to catch little things. I also compare it to my outline to make sure I did not miss any points I wanted to touch on. The 2nd and 3rd drafts typically need the most fixing. After that the 4th draft is usually just nitpicking over word choice and sentence structure. If I can still stand to look at it, the 5th draft is the same.

Speaking of outlines, I do keep an outline, which is often well over six months in advance of my writing. I put down each chapter I have planned, and all of its key events. Typically an outline entry for a chapter is only two or three paragraphs, although some can be much longer. I am not an absolute slave to the outline though. Often when I am writing things come out spontaneously that I add in, or take out. Or I might find a different direction I want to take things. In these cases I just go with the flow, as I have learned to trust my intuition (it always knows better than my conscious mind). Here is an example of an outline entry for an 8,000 word chapter:

Something to note is that the finished version did not contain the part about Pappy recommending the inns, as the natural flow of conversation never got there (Teresa was too busy storming out in tears instead). There is also an very large scene I added to the chapter that is not really in the outline, starting it out.

Posted by: Burnt Sierra Mar 20 2010, 01:00 AM

Yep, agreed.

Posted by: Verlox Mar 20 2010, 07:03 AM

Eh, outlines, notes, drafts; I have no need for such things. Granted, my writes would probably be better if I used them, but I can't get into them. I am a very chaotic writer. Heck, I'll change a chapter's entire events half-way through to fit with my newest vision of where the stories going.

I rarely write anything down (except the story of course!), and prefere to keep it all in my mind where it can warp and change to suit whatever need I have.

Posted by: canis216 Mar 20 2010, 08:28 AM

Here's a question: how much research do you do when you're writing TES fiction? I must confess to being something of a lore buff (though not a lore-khan), and like to try to maintain a fair continuity with the known history, geography, and anthropology of Tamriel. I also like to drop the odd Easter egg from the canonical literature.

For example, I am currently using http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/brothers_of_darkness.shtml as a reference. And Julianos knows I like to peruse the TES cartography section.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Mar 20 2010, 11:00 AM

The best piece of advice that I have ever been given on the mystery of the writing process is to first ignore all of the people who equate the act of writing fiction to the building of a house. Notes, outlines, and character sheets are not blueprints; they are studies, they are rehearsal.

Writing fiction is an act of artistic expression; One that is, hopefully, done for the benefit of an audience. And like singing, or acting, or dancing, or playing an instrument, good fiction should be looked upon as a performance. Read any page of the collected works of Charles Dickens, or Jane Austen, or Mark Twain and you can sense that these great writers consider themselves on stage for the amount of time that they are able to hold your attention. All writers possess a bit of the ham, it is why we do what we do. Embrace that aspect of your personality. Write with abandon!

Check this out:

Tell me that Dickens isn’t showing off! He could have just said it was a foggy night; he could have left the fog on the Essex Marshes and the Kentish Heights. But then we wouldn’t still be talking about him.

So whether you use an outline or not, whether you research heavily or let things fall where they may. There will always be a place for writing that engages the audience the way any good performance piece should. Remember, someone else transcribed Homer into prose. Early audiences heard the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Sorry, got a little off the point of the thread. But, as I said when I introduced myself, I am obsessed with writing and I could talk about it all day.

Posted by: treydog Mar 20 2010, 12:51 PM

@Canis216- I try to be "consistent" with the Lore, although I do not research it, and rarely reference it in my work. I do follow the Construction Set closely, and try not to "break" the game too much. That is easier for me, with a narrowly-focused, first person narrative. When I attempt to add "historical touches" they are usually personal rather than global- see for example the story of the hunting party told around the fire.

@Destri- Could not agree more. The only way to be a writer is to write. The only way to find your own style as a writer is to write a lot. And a lot of it will be- ah, not good- in the beginning. But fiction (and even a fair amount of non-fiction) is very much a performance. The "fun" part is finding that balance between completely immersing the reader versus seeming to be obviously saying, "Gee Mom, look how good I'm writing!"

Yes, I love talking about writing or reading or reading about writing or writing about reading....

Posted by: Verlox Mar 20 2010, 05:41 PM

Since my fc isn't exactly based on the most lore-heavy game, I find myself having to go the IL quite often. Whether it's researcing an et'ada, finding out as much as I can about the Balac-Thurm, ect ect.

Posted by: mALX Mar 20 2010, 06:32 PM

I love the Easter Eggs too, and I noticed them in your story in the asides (hilarious way you present them!)

I love to take the Lore and incorporate it, and sometimes (cough, cough) use it to twist a story through, or twist through a story. I spend a lot of time digging in Lore when I write to make sure I am touching on it correctly, but try and put my own spin on it. The facts are there, but the content is always open for interpretation, lol.

Posted by: Olen Mar 20 2010, 07:05 PM

Lore is an interesting one. For the basic concept and arc of a story I ignore it (well I don't research so just rely on what I know) becasue my mind is on other things. When it comes to fleshing out on the other hand I read everything I can find. I'm not sure I'd write a story in a very lore heavy setting though just because of the constraints. Like I considered writing something around the time of the battle of Red Mountain but decided against it on the grounds that I'd be forever tiptoeing rounds and stumbing over the lore around it.

With setting like the story I'm currently posting this is less of an issue. A look at the imperial library's map section told me about terrain but beyond that the local culture is about the only defined thing, and that's only so set anyway. Another thing I do is spend time looking at the concept art and screenshots of both cannon and tamriel-rebuilt in an attempt to make my descritpions of places feel like they should.

So I'd say I try to be lore compatable without particularly paying it more attention than that and deliberately avoiding lore heavy areas. As far as writing around a game goes (I have a few thousand words of that somewhere on the harddrive but it's no where near ready to be made yet) I largly ignore the game. I've played them enough to know the places and, though I look at maps and keep names, if it suits that a character is a little different than in game (especially if they're too wishy-washy) then they find themselves changed to suit. I like to deal in what might have been and so take things off in a different direction than the game quests go.

Posted by: Dantrag Mar 20 2010, 07:20 PM

Be like a method actor. Take a while, and actually think how one of your characters would. Throw some of your own experiences in there, too. Don't logically make hypothetical situations, ie: 'what would [insert character's name] do?' Make it so that you can barely tell the difference between your own thoughts and your character's.

Don't think about how your characters think, think as your characters.

It's hard to explain, but when I write anything, whether it's lyrics to a song or a TES fanfic, I take on a new frame of mind on purpose. If I'm writing a sad song, for example, I'll take some time to look at all the bad things going on around me, really focus on them for a while, amplify them a billion-fold, and eventually I'll have the perfect depressing mindset for some sad lyrics. It sounds weird, but you can really play with your own head, just make sure you can re-balance yourself later.

Put yourself in similar situations as your characters. Writing about Suzie who's starving in the desert? Don't eat all day and see how you feel. Describe it. Stomach making noises? Muscles feeling weak? Describe it.

Another thing is to 'steal' techniques from writers you like. For example I really like Cormac McCarthy, so there are a few things I do to recreate what I like about his style: I use few words, but try to pick very strong ones. I use short, choppy sentences that move quickly, but leave impact. I learned to leave out a lot of narrative sections and simply use the characters' own dialogue to tell the reader what I want them to know. I write nothing like Cormac McCarthy, I simply took something that I saw and liked in his books and tried to learn from it.

Posted by: mALX Mar 20 2010, 07:38 PM

Awesome ideas!

@ Verlox - I don't know if it would improve your writing or not, how do you improve on perfection? I think sometimes a framework takes the life out of something, the spontaneous feel.

Example: Destri's writing in Interregnum: the reader is drawn, pulled in - it comes to life and grabs you and holds you - I don't know if someone could come across with that kind of inspired writing in a rigid framework, but I could be wrong.

Posted by: canis216 Mar 20 2010, 10:01 PM

I think it was Picasso who said something to the effect of, "Good artists imitate, great artists steal." I personally like to crib from the writing of Edward Abbey and Tony Hillerman, and also from film (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon--especially the desert scenes and the music--is an influence). If you like it, use it. Do it long enough and well enough and it becomes yours.

And yes, one of my favorite things about lore is being able to riff off of it for humor. I once stole a line from Henry David Thoreau (via Abbey's own riff on his work) and then mixed in a lore reference to what I thought was great effect.



So yeah, I can't say that I rely on lore as a plot device or anything, but it adds depth to the world, and well-placed references to it act to place my characters within that world. With Al I think this is useful because his mindset is fundamentally skeptical and modern. I don't want him to seem too disconnected from Tamrielic culture.

Posted by: Fiach Mar 22 2010, 08:44 AM

hmm looks like I'm a little late to the party

I usually keep a notebook with me all day, record things I see, funny things I've heard and it works pretty well.

I often work on two word documents at a time, I write the first part and then the one after that, then I review the first and edit it, do the same with the second before going over the first again a third time.
It probably sounds a little to complicated but I find that it works pretty well.

Paying attention to the surrondings is pretty important to me, I often spend a while just creating the scenery/ setting before the actual story. (which many a english teacher has tried to correct me on in the past )

I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to the lore, whenever I'm writing I always have the imperial library and uesp wiki up as seperate windows. Just so I won't accidently piss off user ELDERSCROLLZFAN4LIFE6188!! who will hunt me down for saying that vivec had children xP

so yeah.... that's my 2 cents

Posted by: Olen Jul 23 2010, 10:23 PM

Yet again I'm going to commit threadromancy on this to ask on opinions on a couple of topics which are bothering me in the planning for my next write.

The first is on planning. How much to plan? The last ones I wrote were planned utterly before I began them and had notes on everything so I knew what was going to happen before I wrote it (during which somethings changed of course), I'm not sure how this came through but it makes the writing easier having a map to follow. But it's possibly less fun and if things are going to change is it better not to fix them to begin with. Going forth blindly (I'm not really sure where the one I'm planning will go after the first phase of it) is all very well but I always worry it's really compensating for a blind (or more likely denied) spot where things won't come together. Or a weakness in character planning that I don't know what will happen.

Which brings me to the second point - where do people get characters from? I've come up with a couple but they're still cardboard and other than writing with them I can't seem to get them to flesh out and so I don't know exactly what I've got. Does anyone have any tricks?

I sort of had a point or two there... maybe... or I might just be struggling with the initial phases of planning.

Posted by: DarkZerker Jul 23 2010, 10:45 PM

I'm a document/report writer. Therefore, I have little experience in writing fiction stuff. But here's what I do for fan fics or just plain writing in general.

First I just wing it or write a very ROUGH version of my story/report. It takes less than 10 minutes to write that. Then I go back and look at any mistakes I've made. Since I use the computer, spelling is no problem but Microsoft Word is annoyingly picky when it comes to grammar. I correct what needs to be corrected and then move on to step two.

If I'm writing reports, I check my information to see if it's up to date or accurate with the newest discoveries. For stories, I write more with lots of details and more parts of the story. It takes roughly 2 hours for reports and 20 minutes for stories.

Then if I'm lazy super busy, I publish it. If I'm not then I go back AGAIN and look to see if a couple lines are right in place. I usually call up my friends and e-mail the draft. They berate me and change a couple things around. All fun and good but most of the time, they just put this.

"Lol...what the [censored] are you doing?"

Then I publish.

Posted by: Acadian Jul 23 2010, 11:13 PM

1. Planning. Disclaimer: I'm all about the character. Plot. . . er, not so much. Anyway, I tend to do what I call storyboard (sort of rough outlining) pretty far out. I then hold off on fleshing out the prose until I'm in pretty close. That does a couple things that help me. The storyboarding helps me avoid writing myself into a corner or overlooking something, but by not being 'prosed out' yet, encourages me to move pieces around as my ideas evolve. Dunno if that makes sense, but it helps me. 'Course my plotting is pretty simple (most of the time).

2. Character creation. My (one and only) character's nature is the spitting image of my late wife (the first Mrs Acadian). The character herself is the granddaughter we never had. That is why she speaks to me so clearly.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Jul 23 2010, 11:42 PM

I can’t give you any definitive answer. The needs of the story dictate the form it will take. I can share with you my process in writing Interregnum:

I started with a simple sentence that jumped out at me when reading the lore:

From there I began to extrapolate everything that I felt must have led up to that event. I made copious notes about the leading players, the major events of the timeframe, and the political atmosphere that existed when these events were taking place. From the very beginning it was apparent that the assassination itself would form the climax of the story, but the lore gives us no indication of exactly when that event took place. Since I was eager to explore every aspect of this setting and place in time I decided that framing the story over the course of an entire year would serve my needs best. That meant that the assassination itself wouldn’t occur until somewhere near the end of the year. This gave me ample opportunity to really play with a large cast of characters.

From there I copied out a Tamrielic calendar to give me an idea of which days were considered sacred or profane by the various provinces. This calendar still serves as my outline. For each day that I wanted to explore in the story I gave myself only the most brief and non-specific prompts over the action that was to occur. For example my entry for the 3rd of Morning Star reads:

I had no idea how that was going to occur, or even what it meant in the larger context of the story at the time. One of the great miracles of writing is how much your creative mind will supply if you only have the good sense to get out of the way.

After all that my advice to you is to immerse yourself in the world of your story. Know it to the point where it begins to invade your sleep. You will know when the story is ready to be written. When that happens get out of the way and let your creative mind work. Characters, scenes and descriptions work so much better when they haven’t been withered to death by the author’s best intentions.

I look forward to reading what you come up with.

Posted by: SubRosa Jul 23 2010, 11:52 PM

1- Planning. I plan very far ahead. For the TF, I have outlines going out as far as chapter 42. Then I have some basic ideas for things beyond that. When I outline a chapter, it can be very simple. Sometimes just two paragraphs stating what needs to happen, highlighting important points. The outline helps me keep the plotting tight, and tie things together over multiple chapters.

For example Vilverin started things that did not come to fruition until the last chapter. Teresa's armor was destroyed, so she needed a new set, and got a magic one from Morcant that would be just what she needed during the Daedra attack on the IC. Likewise, she got all that bandit gear which Jensine, Simplicia, and others were able to use in the battle. etc... Without thinking ahead, I would not be able to pull things together like that.

On the other hand I am not completely rigid in my execution. My outlines are just basic ideas. Directions I want to follow. When I actually sit down and write a chapter things often come out that I had not planned on. For example, Teresa having learned to read by Simplicia teaching her with the Black Horse Courier was completely off the cuff. Methredhel's comment about her, Teresa, and Adanrel being a gang is another. Teresa's pining over Dervera Romalen was another thing that was totally unplanned, as was her feelings of loneliness on the road afterward.

Here is an example of my outline for Chapter 11

Note that things came out slightly different. There was never a Spider Daedra. Nor any mention of hearing Martin's voice. Nor making that healing potion for Vols. etc...


2- Characters. It is hard for me to really explain how I do it. I often start with a stereotype, because they are things people can identify with, and then add layers of depth on from there. Volsinius is a good example here. He is your stereotypical male hero. Physically strong and imposing, not showing much emotion or any signs of weakness or vulnerability, an excellent fighter, decisive in action. A staple character in sword/sorcery fiction. I have no doubt that one of the reasons he is so well loved by readers is precisely because he is a character people are so familiar with.

Once I have that basic concept from the stereotype, I start adding layers. First I look at their past and start adding a history. That in turn either changes some of my original ideas, or reinforces them. Back to Vols, he was a hick from Skyrim who went to the IC at 18. He had never seen the big city before, and was just blown away by it. Most especially by a prostitute named Simplicia, who did things to him he never imagined were possible. He fell in love with her, and when she was maimed it destroyed him as much as it did her. Because he could not protect the woman he loved. Because of that he has never allowed himself to love anyone again. He is too afraid of a repeat. So he became a very hard, closed-up person, afraid to feel anything. His only outlets were drink and violence. His violent tendencies increased because it alleviated his feelings of powerlessness over what happened to Simplicia. That is why he was so quick to knock Teresa's teeth out when she was a child. It is also why the other soldiers were so surprised to find out he had a girlfriend (well not really, but it looked that way). He still loves Simplicia too. That is why he took that firebolt in the face for her after all. But he is so tightly wound that he can never tell her.

So he is still a stereotype, but now one with a tremendous amount of backstory, all of which confirm who and what he is. I think that really makes him come alive as a real person, rather than just as the cardboard cutout he started as.

Posted by: Zalphon Jul 24 2010, 12:00 AM

Edit: removed

Posted by: treydog Jul 24 2010, 01:20 PM

Planning- I won't have a lot to say about this, as I have tended to follow the Main Quest for each of my stories. That means the structure is somewhat ready-made. I change things as I feel the need- see discussion of characters which follows.

I still write the greater part of my material by hand, in whatever order it occurs to me. For my current story, I had the beginning and ending before anything else. So then the task became a matter of connecting the 2. Still, I keep a general concept in mind of the events that should occur, and an even more general sense of the order in which they will happen. However, I do not outline at all (not that there's anything wrong with people who do); nor do I stick slavishly to the concept with which I began.

Character- this is the heart of any story for me. If you have interesting and appealing characters, the plot can be almost anything- the fun comes in watching the characters work through it.

I am usually able to write about 2 or 3 fully-formed characters for any of my long pieces. Some people- minque, mALX1, Rumpleteasza, SubRosa- have entire populations of living, breathing 3D characters. Part of the reason I have fewer is because I write first-person narrative. Although that has not limited some of the other folks who also write first-person. For me it means, with few exceptions, that everything is seen through the prism of the narrator. And it also means that what we learn about the main character is based on what (s)he says and does.

So the narrator becomes the most important person in my story. Before I put pen to paper, I try to think about who this person is. What are his beliefs, his values, his biases? Since I already know what his world is like (Morrowind, Tamriel, Solstheim), I can begin to think about how he will interact with it. How does he feel about the gods? -the Khajiit? -the elves?

What is his background? Wealthy, poor? What about age? Writing fan-fiction about a game can give you some scope to describe the character's abilities in creative ways. Rather than simply giving a laundry list of skills, you can reveal them as the action dictates.

"Roaring, a troll burst from the brush beside the road. Fortunately, I had a natural affinity for fire spells."

I prefer to have things revealed gradually, rather than getting an "info dump" at the beginning. There are different kinds of suspense- all are based on unanswered questions. So the character can be somewhat of a mystery, without necessarily going all the way to being a "woman in black." It is useful, whenever possible, to fit "reveals" into the narrative, rather than just baldly stating them. For example look at the difference here-

"Juneipurr did not like guards. She thought they were bullies and thieves wearing city colors."

"A guard appeared at the end of the street, and Juneipurr pulled back into a shadowed doorway. She had memories of city guards- none of them good."

Both get the job done- I think the second one is better story-telling.

Last bit of advice- have fun with what you are doing.

ETA- A character's "voice" can also do a great deal for the story. Look at how Khajiit and Argonians speak in-game. Someone could have a character speaking in the Khajiiti fashion-

"Juniepurr is honored to meet you, noble lady. How may this one be of service?"

And go on in that vein for a while before revealing that she is not herself a Khajiit, but a Bosmer who was raised by Khajiit. Therefore, her cultural references and mannerisms are those of her upbringing, rather than her genetics....

Flexibility is key- one of my most succesful creations- Athynae- was only going to have a limited role in the story as I originally conceived it. But she is such a wonderful character that I had to give her more time on stage. And Athlain is less of a spoiled brat than I had planned.

Ideas for characters (for me) come from real life- Trey and Athlain are me, to a greater or lesser extent. They are braver than I, and tougher. Trey is certainly mouthier- he says the things I only think. On the other hand, I know what it is like to want to live up to a father who was respected and admired- even though we got along far better than Athlain does with Trey....

Baria is very much based on Mrs. Treydog- so is Athynae, with a sprinkling of my sister and a few ex-girlfriends....

My most successful characters are the ones that are based on real people- because that basis in reality makes the characters more real, more believable.

Give your main character(s) strengths, but also give them flaws. We may not always like what they do, but we should be able to understand it.

As you are playing the game (if your fiction is game-based), consider how your character will respond to situations- and think about why that might be....

If you are writing more general fiction, you can still "role-play" situations, conversations, etc.

Posted by: haute ecole rider Jul 24 2010, 05:37 PM

In the specific fan fic I'm currently writing, I'm like Trey - I use the MQ for the plot, so there goes my planning.

In original fiction, though, I start with a scene in my mind (not always a climactic scene, just one that illustrates the main conflict of the story and the interaction between the main characters), then I develop a time line (not an outline) that gets me from the beginning to this scene, then to the end. The timeline is much more vague than an outline, and it gives me a lot more flexibility. That's the extent of my planning. For example, in a story that I wrote years ago, it started with the vision of a woman falling down an elevator shaft in trying to escape. I started asking questions about the scene - who is this woman? why is she falling? from whom was she trying to escape? I ended up with quite a story, and that inspirational scene was the first in a series of escalating climaxes. That's how I 'plan' my stories - they're pretty organic and tend to grow on themselves. Plot is not really my strong point, sad to say.

Now, character development, that's something I really enjoy doing. It starts from the same point as the storyline - a scene that inspires the entire story. In asking these questions about who, what, why, where, and how, I end up with a good sense of my characters and how they interact. In the current fan fiction, as I was playing Oblivion the first time, I asked questions about my PC as she was moving through this world for the first time. Why was she in prison? How did she end up in this situation? What is she going to do to get out of it and put it all behind her? For me, as for many other writers here, it's the character(s) that drives the story.

And like Trey, I avoid info-dumping as well. I like the characters and situations reveal themselves to the reader bit by bit as in real life - I believe the mystery and questions are what keep the reader going. Not just what's going to happen next? but also how is the character going to react? why is the character in this sticky situation? did the character meet that person before? what's the history here? and so on.

And Trey, are we going to see Juneipurr in your fiction sometime?

Posted by: Ornamental Nonsense Jul 24 2010, 09:07 PM

The question of planning is an interesting one, because I often wonder about that myself. For the most part, I start writing with only a general idea in mind. I focus much more on the characters that I'm introducing, and sometimes I have to write 3-4 chapters before I really know where I'm going with the plot. After that point, I keep a general plot outline in my head (and often several sub-plots as well), but nothing concrete, because I like room to make adjustments and add new ideas as well.

I also often find that the characters themselves will help direct the plot once it gets rolling, so I never commit myself to any one direction or idea prior to having a full grasp on my characters. I truly believe that the characters are the most important part of a story, and so long as I have a firm grasp and understanding of the different personalities that I've created, getting stuck or whatnot is pretty hard. My greatest joy in writing is actually the feeling of fashioning a new character at the beginning of a story. There's something wonderful about designing a new character, and the thing that I find the most difficult and enjoyable in that regard is voice. Deciding how a person will talk in terms of style and diction takes a lot of thought for me.

One aspect that I truly enjoy is adding details to my characters from the very beginning. Sometimes they'll always be seen wearing a certain thing, or some other such quirk. Later in the story, I'll suddenly realize that I can use that detail for something significant, but I often don't realize that until the moment arrives. Before that, the detail is merely seen as something to make the character more realistic and distinct, but you never know where these things will come in handy plot-wise. That's something that I've always enjoyed.

Posted by: Cardboard Box Jul 25 2010, 09:21 AM

With regards to mine, all the planning I did was that I simply decided to set myself a challenge: Complete the Mage's Guild questline, and nothing but. With a suitable alternate start mod getting the blimmin' MQ out of the way, away I went.

Ra'jirra's voice came from asking where this Khajiit had come from, and his motivations for coming to Cyrodiil, at ruinous expense. General impressions raised by Bethesda's writers and voice actors helped create a loom to weave whole cloth about this unprepossessing framework.

Currently I want to start a new character to launch into the Fighter's Guild quests, except there's a gimmick I associate with the dope that I'm uncertain about because it could dominate other aspects of his personality.

Posted by: Jacki Dice Aug 7 2010, 12:12 AM

Planning- For me, it depends on who is in the chapter. If it's one with Wrothken, then all I do is follow the quest and ask a few questions: What does the quest need to be completed? Who does it involve and what is their relationship to Wrothken? Does it conflict with his morals? How? What can he do avoid that? Does it bring up a part of his past? Is he so busy that his heartbreak can be momentarily forgotten? Are the people acting too normal? How can I play on their insanity?

If the chapter is set in Kvatch there's a whole new set of questions: Is it Kirsty, Lilitu, or Awour that we're getting to know? What are we learning about them that will show up in later chapters? How are they developing? Where will they be by the end of the chapter?

Once I know the answers, then I begin writing.

Characters- First thing I do when I make a new character, is have a character sheet

Now, a lot of the characters have their looks based on people I know. For example, one of my best friends is very short, with dark brown hair, brown eyes, she's got a beauty mark above her lips, and the lucky duck has perfect, envious curves... Anyone who reads Champion of Madness might recognize Kirsty's looks.

Next is their biography. Why are they the way they are? How did they get to where they are now? Are their parents alive? Do they have siblings? Any romantic relationships? Where did they come from?

Lastly, what's their alignment? Once I figure out the black and white, I add several shades of gray. Then that's it. I've got my character down.

Posted by: ureniashtram Nov 1 2010, 04:02 PM

I hereby invoke the spell of Threadnomancy and- bah. I'll get to the point.

Sometimes, like right now, I have problems involving the introduction of the story itself, and the introduction of characters.

For example, I can't introduce Bob without info-dumping you that he's the bloody Incarnate and how he defeated Ur. I plan to tell the audience that he's the Nerevarine in a later chapter, but sometimes I just find myself staring at long, jarring text wall five minutes later. Just look at my newbie story 'The Mourning Stars'.

So, I have problems with introductions and I'n stricken with the disease of info-dumping.

Since Chorrol is home for pro writers, can this not-so humble kid ask you guys for advice? Please?

Posted by: mALX Nov 1 2010, 04:30 PM

I have to disagree with you Ureniashtram, 'The Mourning Stars' first chapter was AWESOME !!! It ran 3000 words, which is a little larger than a lot of people like to read, but I enjoyed every bit of it. I am terrible for having chapters so long no one wants to read them, even long time followers of my story - mine usually run between 2000-2200 words.

I would just break it into smaller chapters so readers don't think they are seeing a "wall of text" - your content and writing is great! My fave line was the one about the Emperor sleeping - I may never forget that, and spew every time I think of it, lol.

Posted by: Acadian Nov 1 2010, 04:32 PM

I'm speaking just in generalities here about doing an early info dump on a character. Not specifically regarding your writing or story at all. In my humble opionion, introducing your lead character is different than introducing a supporting character. In either case, it boils down to limiting info to that which is relevant and pertains to the moment. I'll assume you are talking about introducing a lead character and you are doing so from within his/her perspective.

He is likely not thinking about the facts that (just for example) he is a Nord living in Bruma with blue eyes dressed in sack cloth pants who was chosen by Azura to slay dragons and save the world and.... Rather, he might be thinking about the fact that he is hungry or thirsty or his head hurts from a hangover. I know you fairly soon want to give your readers a 'picture' of enough to hang onto (like name, race, sex and location) regarding your character, but that should be woven into the story.

In this case, your character hears a knock at the door. Upon opening the door, snow flurries surround his visitor who states, "By the Nine, Bob, it's morning and you look like you just got home from Olav's Tap & Tuck. I thought you Skyrim fellows could hold your drink!"

Ah. Now we know the name, race and sex of the character and that we're in Bruma. That is enough for now. The rest can be doled out naturally as events allow via actions, conversations and judicious use of internal dialogue.

Posted by: haute ecole rider Nov 1 2010, 04:41 PM

Character introduction. That's the fun part of writing, I think. The most common trap most writers fall into is failing to see their characters as real people. Look at yourself. As you go through your day, do you constantly think about yourself like this: I'm eighteen years old, but look sixteen. I'm medium height, with average looks. I dress average - for a modern-day student, that is. But I know things most eighteen-year old students don't know. I can swing a sword, face down a clannfear, and cast a Silence spell with a wide area of effect. I'm the Nerevarine. No one can beat me in a fair match. Of course you don't think of yourself like that. Your mind is on other things.

What I do is imagine that character going about his/her day-to-day business. I start by describing that character's actions, his thoughts, the environment that character is moving through. I hoard personal descriptions and dole it out very frugally.

How do you get to know someone in real life? If you're a student, what happens when you notice another student? Or how does your teacher introduce himself on the first day of class? If you're a working stiff, how does your first day on the job go? Or what happens when someone new starts working in your office/place of employment? When you see someone interesting on the street, what's the first thing you see? Wild hairdo? Crazy tats? Weird clothes? Or maybe it's strange behavior that attracts your attention.

Once you've done the initial introduction, what's next? I introduce bits and pieces of my characters' personalities and histories through action, through conversation (dialogue), and inner thoughts. I build them up slowly, layer by layer. That's how I avoid an info-dump.

Here's how I introduced a character in a story I wrote some time ago:

Right off the bat, we know the protagonist is a woman, who works security for a corporation, and she speaks at least three languages - English, German, and Spanish. There is also a hint of impatience with people who don't pay attention to details, such as this official speaking German to an American/Latin national. Her character is developed pretty much over the next several chapters, as she travels to her destination and her purpose for going there. That's pretty much how I write my characters, as if I'm getting to know them in real life.

Introductions. That's the hard part -where to start? Sometimes I start right in with the action:
That was the first paragraph of a different story I wrote about nine or ten years ago. The story starts with the mission. Character development is going on concurrently with the action, and by the time the mission is finished, we have a sense of who some of these people are.

Other times, I start with something a little more low-key:
This is the story I'm writing for NaNoWriMo (see my post on the General Discussion). I just started it this morning and already I'm nearly halfway toward my daily goal of 2000 words. So here we have two things going on: I've created a setting - it's cold, and they live in a yurt heated by a brazier. Today is going to be a long day. We'll find out why in a few paragraphs. I've also introduced four characters, a woman, her man, and two children. We don't know much about them yet, but we know we're looking at a family unit.

And that's how I work! Do you have a book you absolutely love? Pick it up and look at the first page. Does it grab you right away? Why and how does it do so? Or if you're more a movie person, put your favorite movie in the VCR or DVD player and watch the first five minutes. Ask yourself the same questions. That's how you work on your introductions and character development. It takes practice to read or watch actively, instead of passively. But it's possible to learn from your favorites.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 1 2010, 05:34 PM

I am not sure how much more I can add that has not already been said. Except to think of the background you work up for your characters and setting as an iceberg. The reader only needs to see the tip of it, so that is all you have to show them to start with. Reveal the rest when the character somehow experiences those things. That way it flows naturally from the story.

For example, in the TF I did not reveal that my main character was a lesbian until chapter 5. I did it then because she saw an attractive woman and reacted. She did not stop to think "Oh, btw. I'm a lesbian." She just saw the other woman and started day dreaming about sleeping with her. The reader could fill in the rest.

Likewise, I did not reveal that she was an archer until chapter 3, when she saw a bow and thought "Hey, I can use that!". Before then when she was talking to the Emperor it did not matter, so there was no point revealing it.

For an example of showing setting information: I always knew that in the TF, there were miles and miles of farmland and villages surrounding all the major cities in Cyrodiil, enough that you would travels for days and see nothing but farms. But I did not show that until my main character was actually walking down the main road outside a city, and all these farms were rolling by.

Posted by: ureniashtram Nov 1 2010, 05:47 PM

No words can express my gratitude, really. So I say this to all of you; Thanks!

Now, only thing for me left to do is learn, reflect and (hopefully) create a story that'll encompass my previous ones!

Thanks, yet again! Whoo!

Posted by: haute ecole rider Nov 1 2010, 06:20 PM

You're welcome! Good luck!

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 1 2010, 06:31 PM

Here is an idea that just came to me. For a good exercise, try writing a protagonist who has amnesia. Linara is doing that http://chorrol.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4524. It is a great way to avoid info-dumping, because the character literally has no info!

Posted by: ureniashtram Nov 1 2010, 06:37 PM

Aha! Nice suggestion, dear Sage! Hmm... an amnesiac protagonist.. That's going to be challenge. Thanks, again!

Posted by: Olen Jan 5 2011, 01:56 AM

Black dribbly candles... yep it's necromancy time again

This time two things, but first a few words of explaination. I have been writing fairly solidly since ther last thing I posted. But recently I found myself on the fifth reworking of what I was sure was a good idea, I had 25k words down (again) and a good idea of where to go. But it was the fifth rework for a reason, it had taken ages and wouldn't flow so ultimatly I packed it in because it was no fun any more.

I looked here and followed Destri's advice on finding an interesting bit of lore and filling it out. And the new one is going swimmingly, but I have rather hammered it down to push through the block with internal editor set to 'off' (I'm kinder to my internal editor than Haute... ) so it's very rough. Which brings me to my first question:

How do people redraft? Any tips? I generally tend to write fairly close to a finished product first time and then just edit descriptions, word choice and balance things a bit. But this needs more than that and I wondered if anyone had any effective methods. I lack patience and have a tendancy to resort to cut and paste.

The second question is more one of taste. What do you listen to while you write? I tend towards soundtracks and (some) classical which don't interfere but create a mood but am interested in what other people listen to, especially as I'm getting bored of my limited collection.

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 5 2011, 02:13 AM

I wish I could offer some better advice about my redrafting process, but all I really do is read though the piece and look for things like continuity errors, repeated words, misspellings, things like that. Like you, I try to get it very close to how I want it in the first draft. Hence I spend the most time on that.

I do keep a outline, and I also check it against the piece when I do my redrafts. I sometimes find things I missed that way, and add them in. Or I might find that I really did not need them in the first place, and leave the story without it. Here again, I always have a solid outline with all the major events in the story before I start writing.

As far as music goes, I listen to all sorts of things. Most of the time just whatever cds I am in the mood for in general at the time. Lately I have been listening to a lot of Kamelot. Or I start winamp and put in on shuffle, and listen to my mp3s. Once in a while I will go for specific albums when I want to help myself get in the mood. For example, when writing The Battle of Bruma, and later editing one of the Vols chapters, I listened to the Gettysburg soundtrack.

Posted by: Jacki Dice Jan 5 2011, 11:07 PM

If I'm writing something and I feel it needs a redraft, I make a new paragraph directly under the one I want to re-do. I look at what's in the paragraph that's important and keep it, rewording if necessary and then add or subtract things based on the flow. I do it one paragraph at a time until I'm satisfied. Then I delete the original and go from there



I usually leave my ipod on shuffle. Its mainly thrash and black metal with some love songs here and there and older pop. If I really feel like I need to get in a specific mood, then I find songs that fit the situation. For example, for Wrothken in the Shivering Isles I listen to a lot of Mindless Self Indulgence or sad break-upy songs, depending on what he's doing. For Kirsty, I play Lady Gaga, Alicia Keys, or anything kind of "light." Lilitu gets Cradle of Filth or JOJ (<---their full name isn't forum friendly, but the first word is Jack and the third is Jill...use your imagination). Basically anything that will give me a feeling similar to what's going on in the story.

Posted by: Cardboard Box Jan 6 2011, 04:00 AM

I tend to the "make the first released draft near as damnit to the last draft" style of writing myself.

Currently I'm revising the FanFiction.net editions of my works, partly because of style (FF's filters eat most conventional section breaks) and also because sometimes I make massive clangers:

1. Calling Caranya Caminalda - who was offed in chapter 2
2. Referring to the same day with three different dates - and two different eras!
3. Referring to the Bruma guild in the present tense and making Volanaro the new guild head.
4. First, indicating Ancotar is at Black Plateau, then suggesting he was killed several chapters on.

Most of these are flubbed sanity checks, relying on my imperfect memory instead of going over what I've written.

This is particularly vexing, since I have so much catch-up to do on the crossover fiction.

As for listening material, I tend not to listen to anything. I need all the concentration my braincell can handle.

Posted by: mALX Jan 7 2011, 10:33 PM

If you think the Crossover is hard now, wait till Ra'jirra leaves the Captital Wasteland and visits the Mohave Desert area !!

Posted by: Cardboard Box Jan 8 2011, 02:02 AM

Which he won't be, mALX. The end point for that fiction is just after [redacted]. He'll leave further exploration to the younger, more expendable types.

Posted by: mALX Jan 8 2011, 02:34 AM

Does that mean you will write it, but use a different character? Lol.

Posted by: Cardboard Box Jan 8 2011, 09:24 AM

Let's just say I'm playing with the idea of an alternate universe "Freaky Friday"-style swap. If I go through with it, Slippery Elmer's going to hate me.

Something else I want to do is write the biography of Zul gro-Radagash, as a nonfiction document countering the terrible guff expelled by his fan. Ra'jirra is very eager for the truth to be known >;)

Posted by: mALX Jan 12 2011, 12:52 PM

SPEW !!! Er... Slippery Elmer ...

I like the idea of a freaky friday type switch, but will Ra'jirra be in the wasteland while ... Slippery Elmer is ... er ... slipping it to Cyrodiil? Or willl Ra'jirra help him deal with the shock of the alternate universe?

Posted by: Cardboard Box Jan 13 2011, 07:29 AM

Nope. This is a completely different splay of the Bethesda multiverse, because Zul already did the main quest in a radically different fashion.

Elmer's going to find himself in the body of a Dunmer (an Urshilaku barbarian, actually) and vice versa. The entire prologue is just an excuse for doing this.

Part of the fun here is the two getting acclimatised to radically different bodies, parts of which have been [UNTRANSLATABLE: TYPE III CONCEPT] through judicious application of handwavium compounds. Apart from that, it's really rather routine; Elmer (technically) becomes a courier again and Theldyn Assurnibipal becomes a courier, period.

Obviously I'm writing it now, but Theldyn is proving more difficult to write.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Jan 17 2011, 06:53 AM

Here are several of the thoughts that go through my head when I'm typing away...

-How much information do I want the reader to know at the time? This is what creates tension, that feeling of not knowing exactly what's going to happen. Info-dump, as I've read, is a hurdle that many must learn about and avoid, because giving away too much means the tension gets spoiled. That tension is what keeps your audience interested. They want to find out what happens next. That is why I strive to only write into the chapter the plot information necessary, and make the rest filler.

-On that topic, I also strive to ensure all that extra filler has real meaning. Every word that is inserted into the tale needs to belong there, because pointless filler is just that: pointless. Having too much random babble makes readers bored. What do I mean by filler that has a reason for being there?
>Describing the setting
>Chatter, so long as it builds character
>Getting a quick chuckle out of the reader

I'm sure I can think of more, but not at this time (and that's filler for I ran out of ideas ).

Essentially, I write the plot to make the readers need to read more, and write the filler to make the readers want to read more.

-I always keep the overarching conflict in mind. Writing a good fanfic is like writing a good TV series, where every episode has its own little picture to paint, but the combined pictures provided by all the episodes form the overarching main plot of the conflict between the protagonist and the antagonist.

-On the topic of antagonists, I feel that better results are obtained if the readers are aware of his presence, but know nothing else about him for a considerable time other than he's trying to make life difficult for the protagonist. This ambiguity helps to build the tension, as the readers will never truly know who the big bad is until you out and tell them.

-I try to have two strong characters at the forefront of the story, the protagonist and a good side-character. This opens up so many options for storytelling that often cannot be accomplished with a lone wolf protagonist. Things such as learning about each other (which incidentally gives the readers a reason to care about the story), to help each other grow into even better versions of themselves, and finally, it gives me a viable reason to... perhaps... pull a fast one on one of them, which can make for one heckuva plot twist and completely change the course of the story.

-Oh, and don't introduce both at the same time. The Star Wars prequels made that mistake and it resulted in the viewer being unable to figure out who they were supposed to support, or who's story was being told. Stagger the introductions, it will make your story easier to read.

There's more, but that should do for now...

Posted by: TheOtherRick Jan 26 2011, 11:14 PM

I am so glad I found this thread. As I stated in the Author's Notes of my FF thread (shameless plug), I am not a writer at all. Heck, my education level is a G.E.D. that I got when I was 16. In the 33 years since then (everyone get their calculators out now), I have read a lot, but written precious little. I started reading some fan fiction and "got bit by da bug", thinking that it sounded fun to try. I was right. So far I have found it to be very enjoyable.

I am babbling...

I really appreciate all of the material in this thread. My "writting style"...have I been writing long enough to have a style?...has been make it up as I go. I do have a plan of sorts, but I never thought to outline ahead of time, or storyboard, or use any of the other techniques mentioned in this thread. I want to thank Treydog for starting this thread over 4 years ago. And I gotta give a shout out to Acadian for helping me get started.

Unreal...That is EXACTLY what I did, albeit for lazy reasons. I didn't want to come up with a backstory before I started writing. Since starting my thread, I have read Linara's FF and I freaked out because her beginning was so similar to mine.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Feb 5 2011, 10:50 PM

For me the rough draft is just that, rough. It is little more than an outline, an antiseptic relaying of events with maybe a dozen lines of dialogue to lend it flavor. I work differently from most writers I know in that my subsequent re-writes expand on the rough draft (most writers I know tend to write fat and pare down in the re-writes). I use my rough draft to 'get to know' the chapter. After that I try to find the 'voice' of the chapter. That isn't to say that I am looking for the narrator of the chapter (although that does happen from time to time). What I mean is that I am looking for the best way to tell the events of a chapter. Some of the questions that get me there: Whose eyes are we seeing the chapter through? What is the overall mood of that character through these events? What cadence of speech best communicates both the mood and the events?

Once I have found the 'voice' of the chapter, the writing tends to take care of itself.


Most of the time I don't listen to anything at all. I like hearing the sounds of life going on around me. Most of the time the soundtrack of my writing sessions are birdsong . . . screaming, shouting children . . . insistent lawnmowers and leaf blowers, and the crunch of gravel as cars pass by.

Posted by: haute ecole rider Feb 5 2011, 11:25 PM

Ah, those were the days! I miss that more than I thought I would!

Right now it's the occasional yowling when the two cats decide to wassle each other. In the summer when the windows are open, it's the sound of tires on pavement. Not quite the same as gravel, though.

What I really miss, though, is the smell of coal smoke that tells me there's a live steam locomotive in the vicinity. That's what you get for practically growing up on railroad museum grounds.

Posted by: mALX Feb 5 2011, 11:37 PM

ROFL!!!! Oh yes, the whole reason I have a playlist that I listen to. Now if I could find a way to stop:

-

the youngest from giving repeated signals to get your attention and when he gets it asking something like, "Do you wish I was _____________ (fill in the blank with anything from Elvis to a pencil eraser)?"

-

Or springing _________________ (fill in the blank with anything from "Herkimer" snakes to fake spiders) at you -

-

and the husband that sneaks up behind you every time his ball game/Friday Night Fights/Nascar/etc. goes on commercial - and either runs his hands across the keys so you have to find where you were and delete the mess he made - or else makes like a spider is crawling on you - or jabs you in the ribs suddenly - or signals the dogs to leap on you -


-

all while you are typing.


*


PS: And Grits - I KNOW you know what I'm talking about, lol.


*

Posted by: TheOtherRick Feb 6 2011, 12:30 AM

LMAO!!!!! now THAT is funny!!

We have no younglings about in this household, just the cats. However, the fill in the blanks could still work.

-

The first would be; "After sharpening my claws on your computer chair, do you wish I was________________ (fill in the blank with anything from jumping into your lap to walking across your keyboard)?"

-

The second would be; or springing ______________ (fill in the blank with anything from a hairball to the ocassional nasty feline flatulence) at you.

-

The third distraction comes from my fiance (spellcheck please). Since I am so new to this and have been going at it like a junkie that found some better crack, she doesn't quite get the interruption thing. She will come in and just start talking to me about daily stuff, what I want for dinner, etc. I remain patient, after all she does deserve my time, but there is always a sigh of relief when I get my solitude back. She questioned me about what I was doing, and when I told her, she just kinda rolled her eyes and said, "Oh my God, I really have become engaged to a geek!" I just laughed and reminded her how much time she spends in Facebook apps...nothing like a well fitting shoe to make an effective point.

Posted by: Jacki Dice Feb 6 2011, 01:13 AM

People would be punched. -shudder- Though the fake spiders, I have to tell you about this.

We normally go to my grandma's house to Thanksgiving. My little cousin (he was about 7 or 8 at the time) knows of my phobia so usually he hides the fake spiders left over from Halloween. My brother and uncle LOVE spiders to death and just so happened to come across one of the fakes. That day I wore my hair curly and one of them threw a spider at me while my back was turned. I didn't know what it was and the spider actually got caught in my hair! The entire house was laughing and it took a long time (at least ten minutes) for me to catch what they did!




Wrothken says this to me all the time, especially when I cry over the Skyrim trailer

And my little tuxedo cat loves to sit right in front of the screen as I type or lay flat on the keyboard

Posted by: Grits Feb 6 2011, 02:07 AM

You know it!! The kids usually try to sneak stuff by me when I’m writing, since I can see the stairs from where I sit. So I listen to THUMP THUMP THUMP tiptoe tiptoe tiptoe THUMP THUMP THUMP and then I have to chase them down and search them.

Mr. Grits has learned to give me some time during the day unless he wants a repeat of this at night:

Grits: *typing throughout*
Mr. Grits: I’m going to bed.
Grits: Huh.
Mr. Grits: The kids are asleep.
Grits: Uh huh.
Mr. Grits: Are you coming up?
Grits:
Mr. Grits: *sighs*
Grits:
Mr. Grits: *goes upstairs*
Grits: Did you say something?

Posted by: mALX Feb 6 2011, 02:31 AM

Oh, I recognize the "THUMP THUMP tiptoe tiptoe" from the earlier years !!! And every now and then, something that wasn't supposed to be ... handled ... came thumping down the stairs as well.

Also, at the early ages a child is sure that if they look you in the eye, you will not see what their hands are doing (for some odd reason). They will try to hold your vision while sliding their hand into (pick one: Cake, Cookies, etc.) - like you can't see their arm stretching over to it!


@ TheOtherRick - the worst part is, he is no youngling - just has a wicked thing for practical jokes, lol. (wonder where they get that from?).

Posted by: SubRosa Feb 6 2011, 02:31 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/subrosa_florens/Animals/Freya159.jpg

Posted by: mALX Feb 6 2011, 04:49 AM

Gorgeous cat, SubRosa !!!

Posted by: Acadian Feb 6 2011, 05:01 AM

And who could resist your http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/subrosa_florens/Pets/Freya132.jpg?

She continues to be adorable!

Posted by: Captain Hammer Feb 6 2011, 05:44 AM

I generally make a graphical, flow-chart-y outline on blank paper in my spare moments, and then type up a basic draft. After that, I go back in, and start filling in each sequence with the appropriate actions, dialogue, and environmental descriptions. Then I leave it, come back the next morning and re-read it to catch the mistakes spell-checker missed. After that, I go back to the sections that still don't feel right, and re-edit them till they do work.



This one is tricky for me. Usually, I try to get thematic songs based on the nature of the passage that I'm writing. Heavier material from metal and rock for battle scenes, "Gonna Fly Now" and "Hearts on Fire" for any part where intense training is taking place, etc.

For instance, I'm writing Awtwyr as a native of the southern half of the Kingdom of Shornhelm, which includes the Western Wrothgarian Highlands. Being a Highlander Breton, I eschew "Princes of the Universe" for more traditional or thematic pieces. So I tend to listen to a lot of music by Pipe and Drum bands when I get time to actually write his story. That, or the various Celtic Punk and Folk Metal bands out there.

Unfortunately, this has left "Highland Cathedral" on repeat in my brain at times.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Mar 11 2011, 01:46 AM

A lot of people tend to have a large number of chapters queued up for their tales as they go through them, editing and revising as they post. I, however, do not do that. I focus my full attention onto a single chapter until it gets posted, then return to draft the next segment. The main reason people are performing the former strategy here is because what we are seeing is not the first version of their story, but rather revised versions of chapters that have already been posted elsewhere (I.E., BGSF before the mass-exodus of the major Fan-Fiction authors around this time last year).

I do not have the luxury of having a large backlog of chapters available to me, as I am a rather recent comer to this arena. I have developed my own style with writing a completely new story that ensures that my mind cannot get too fragmented. By focusing on my writing one chapter at a time, it allows me to keep focus, and therefore keep going.

That being said, everything that occurs in the tale has clear direction and purpose. I keep tabs on everything that happens, and my visions for what will happen extend all they way to the distant end.

Posted by: mALX Mar 11 2011, 05:30 PM

Like you, I have been writing each chapter new after the previous one posts, (although I can't say it is the way I would choose to if given the option).

When I first moved here from the BGSF I started bringing my character's original story here, just doing some editing to it - but after the first few chapters I realized that wouldn’t work.

The original story was my first experience crafting my game into words. I don’t have writing skills like so many do here, just a love of my game character and an enjoyment in telling her story as she makes her way around Cyrodiil.

That lack is proven notably in the early chapters of the original story (which can easily be seen in the first few chapters on here). Thanks to the help of some Awesome people like SubRosa, Acadian, Foxy, Treydog, Winter Wolf - there has been some improvement in that aspect.

Rather than just revamp the original chapters, (which were based on a previous game I was no longer playing) - I really wanted to start fresh, do things differently this time. Other than the first few chapters, this story is completely different than the original. (anyone who has read both will testify to that).

SubRosa advised me to break free from the linear game mold, shape the story out of my own imagination and creativity. That is what I have been trying to do with this version. (SubRosa didn’t earn the title Sage idly, her knowledge is amazing and her advice sound).

I think we all draw inspiration from our own lives, or our lives can sap the ability to feel inspired. The beginning of June last year was when we found out Steve (my X) was dying from cancer, we barely had six weeks with him before he was gone. His illness and death consumed our family even for months after he passed. I couldn't wrap my mind around fiction when reality was overwhelming. For anyone wondering why I didn’t post between June 6 and August 20 last year - that is why. The only thing I wrote during that time was a poem dedicated to him.

Things that effect your life do tend to come out in your story. Agronak's evilness was the cancer; the vampire armies converging on the Imperial City was the rapid spreading of the disease. The war in the Imperial City was the battle Steve fought, the battle we all fought against the evil of that cancer that could destroy a man as strong as the Imperial City itself.

Anyway, everything added to my story since the beginning chapters has been written chapter by chapter as it posts with the exception of Foxy‘s characters, they have to be sent ahead to him for his edit-in and approval.

What I’m trying to say, I don’t know if writing as you post is a good or bad thing, because your mood can effect the tone of the chapter as you write it. (As can periods of inability to focus due to distractions that can occur readily in a house with a teenager, two dogs and a cat…or worse, a husband). Then again, one day you may be overflowing with inspiration and have a quiet house - if that ever happens I would like to write a few chapters ahead, lol.

Anyone else have trouble focusing and has some tips to get around it, I’m all ears.


*

Posted by: Olen Mar 11 2011, 07:34 PM

I sit at the opposite end of the spectrum. Until the entire thing is written I post nothing. The main reason is that if a piece gets stuck, and mine do around the 20-30k mark, people won't have wasted their time reading something which I'm simply not going to finish.

Another reason is that it lets me go back and tweak things. The whole I need such and such now is rather easier to insert with less planning. Likewise if a character changes (and if they don't it's a sure sign the piece will die) I can foreshadow it, or even rewrite sections. So basically it's about producing a tighter end result. It also means that there won't be vast gaps in my posting when RL gets too heavy.

On the minus side it does mean that I go long times wihtout having anyhting going up, and at the current rate it will be next year before I finish the TES piece I'm working on. Basically it comes down to choice: if you like having people comment in real time, and there are advantages, posing as you go is great, if you want more freedom to hack things around holding it all works better.

Agreed. Characters tend to have some of the writer in them, or even become avatars of aspects of the writer's psyche.

Having written something quite so pretentious I shall stop.

EDITED for typos

Posted by: TheOtherRick Mar 12 2011, 02:01 AM

I am also of the "pre-write several chapters ahead" ilk. This is my first attempt at writing fiction for someone else to read, so I had no preconceived plan on how to do it.

I found that once I started, it was like turning on a faucet. The words just poured out. Acadian and mALX actually had to get me to shut the valve some because I was posting massive installments at a dizzying clip. So instead of posting as I wrote, I just continued to write and diminished the posting rate, and size. This resulted in the aforementioned pre-write style, quite by accident.

It has already helped me in way that was probably inevitable. Pre-writing provided a buffer between a bout of writers block and being able to continue posting anyway. Where at one time I was eight chapters ahead of my posts, that number has dwindled to one. Definitely a handy by-product.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Mar 12 2011, 02:17 AM

I tend to be the opposite, I like to be quite careful with my word choice and sentence structuring; sometimes a bit too careful and this can lead to the occasional overly-complex sentence. I've found that the 48 to 72 hour delay for me is quite a reasonable time-frame, as that is usually the amount of time it takes for me to draft and redraft, and my proofreading skills continue to improve, as well. If you find a significant delay between chapters in my tale, it's usually because I was struggling with how I wished to tell the story at that point in time.

By the same token, I usually spend the time after posting a new installment reading the comments and thinking about how I wish to approach the next part. Although I usually have the big picture for my stories well in hand very early on, I like to develop the smaller pictures of the individual chapters as I go along. This allows me to keep my ideas fresh.

Posted by: SubRosa Mar 12 2011, 02:43 AM

Out of curiosity, when most of you folks are talking about a chapter, what exactly do you mean? It may seem like a stupid question, but I have found that people often have very different ideas of the definition.

For example, often I see people comment in the TF and use the term chapter to refer to a single post. OTOH, when I say chapter, I mean something much larger. My chapters take up multiple posts (the current one, Inheritance, will take 7 posts to put up. The one I just finished will take 25 posts to put up.). Obviously, I have gotten long-winded in my sunset years.

I ask this because for example, I write an entire chapter at a time rather than a single post at a time. I write it as long as it needs to be to tell the story. Then I split it up into digestible increments and start putting it up every few days. Because putting 10-15k words in a single post would be insane. That is why I not only number the chapters, but put a decimal point to increment each post within the chapter. (The first post of Inheritance was Chapter 31.1, the second 31.2, etc...) Haute does the same, as she has the same view. This is also why I carefully use the term "episode", or "segment", when I refer to a single post, and never the term "chapter".

Posted by: Jacki Dice Mar 12 2011, 04:32 AM

Well since December, I've been doing a rewrite, so most of the chapters are already lined up. Though on my current one, its still in the works...somewhat (I'm a bit burned out on it at the moment :/ )

To answer SubRosa's question, generally I refer to a chapter as a post, but that's only because my chapters are generally one post long. However, this last one I'm doing is two or three parts so I refer to it as a section, rather than the chapter.

Posted by: TheOtherRick Mar 13 2011, 01:08 AM

First, I'll give my disclaimer again. I am by no means an author. I have never had schooling in writing. As a matter of fact, English and Literature classes were the ones I detested the most in school. I give this disclaimer because of how I started out here and where I am now.

At first, I was writing chapters in the literal sense, meaning that they were meant to centered around a topic. Such as the escape from the prison. So I orinigally was numbering as you have said...1.1, 1.2, etc.

Now I number and name the posts (or episodes, if you prefer) as individual chapters. That means that when I refer to a chapter, it now means a post.

I have learned so much since I started this. The education has been just as rewarding as finding this new hobby. Everything from punctuation, to sentence structure, to actually having a plan to the story. The latter may wind up being the downfall of The Talendor Chronicles, because I started it as nothing more than a game play narrative. It still is today. I worry that readers will tire of it and grow bored. Especially now that I am reading so many of the great stories here. There is so much talent in this forum. The authors are great at writing imaginative "off-game" adventures. Perhaps I will become that talented with practice and experience.

Sorry about the off topic rambling in the last paragraph there...

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Mar 13 2011, 01:22 AM

Off-topic rambling? I must disagree with you there, Rick.

Also, just because yours is a gameplay narrative does not mean that will be the downfall of the tale. Look to Old Habits Die Hard for a case-in-point example of what I'm talking about. We don't care about the plot nearly as much as we do the characters here (which may mean I am in trouble, because characterization is not one of my strong suits). Talendor is delightfully endearing, and that alone is enough to make every title you bring forth to us worth every second of our time.

For me, I write my story in a chapter, sub-chapter format, and each one is numbered right at the beginning. I do not title the full chapters, only the sub-chapters.

Due to my inherent weaknesses with reading people, it is rather difficult for me to characterize in my writing. That is why my story instead take the approach of a complex, adventurous plot that tugs at the mind and (in some cases) the heartstrings. I live off of the idea of hooking my readers into the tale so thoroughly they can't help the urge to find out what happens next. My strength lies in action and immersion, so that is where I will be playing from. My hope is that I can develop good characterization skills as things progress. Then, once I finish, I might go back and create a revision alongside whatever else I might have planned.

Posted by: SubRosa Mar 13 2011, 01:32 AM

You are an author. Schooling does not matter. Just the will to do the work of putting the words down on the screen. As The Duke might say: Get used to it Mister.

And quite on topic I would say. As Captain Cook said, your characterization of Talendor is very strong, making him shine from the page. That makes reading him washing clothes interesting! Praise Zenitor! As you spend more time writing in general, and writing him in particular, you will doubtlessly begin to find ideas for plots outside of the normal game structure bubbling in your brain. That just comes from developing the character, because soon you come to find that certain things are personal to him. Be it ideals, or people, etc... These things will begin to tug him in one direction or another, and off you go!







I'll tell you a secret. We all have an inherent weakness with reading people. The only one who really knows what is going on in a person's head and heart are themselves. And even then there's often a lot of confusion!

So if you want to work on characterization skills, look at yourself. How you would think, how you would feel, how you would react. What makes you tick? I am not saying to literally write about yourself "The Mithril Chef of Cyrodiil! ". But pull from your own emotional experiences to make the characters you write richer. Use that to build empathy with them.

Posted by: mALX Mar 13 2011, 01:50 AM

Agreed. Add to that the fact that you tuck humor into your story - that is a draw in itself, to me.

Posted by: Count Lauriel Mar 19 2011, 10:36 AM

I have a quick question, when your character recalls back to the past mid scene, how do you handle this?

It's just, the chapter I'm writing now really requires it, and I'm not sure how I can make it clear that Helena is thinking back. Especially as it happens in the middle of dialogue.

Posted by: treydog Mar 19 2011, 11:56 AM

One way is to use a different font- I generally use italics- and I think some of the others do as well.

Immodest example from my own work- since it was the easiest to find:



Notice that there are also "verbal cues"- by this time the reader knows the "current" Athlain is more than 7. And of course, the words "reminded me" in the first sentence.

Anyway- set off a flashback or memory typographically and frame it with a lead-in and an exit that make the transitions in time clear.

Posted by: Count Lauriel Mar 19 2011, 11:59 AM

Thanks Trey! That's wonderfully helpful.

I use italics for the voice in her head though, so I'll have to think of something.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Mar 19 2011, 07:31 PM

I wouldn't worry about people confusing the flashback with Helena's inner monologue. Remember, a flashback is Helena's inner monologue. It is her own memory being replayed for the reader. Using italics in this case would be perfectly fine.

Posted by: haute ecole rider Mar 19 2011, 11:44 PM

I use italics for both flashbacks and inner thoughts in my writing. But I use different verb tenses to differentiate between them. I use the past tense for the flashbacks (same as in the main narrative), but present tense in the inner thoughts.

Let me give you a couple of examples from my own. First I set up the flashback to follow naturally out of the current events/thoughts my protagonist is experiencing:

I do the same thing with Julian's inner thoughts, only I use present tense instead of past tense:
You can see that not only the italics but also the tense change clue us in that these are her inner thoughts.

Posted by: TheOtherRick Mar 22 2011, 08:36 PM

All I can do is agree with the above comments. I use italics for any "inner head" expressions, whether they be thoughts or dreams. Unfortunately, Talendor cannot remember his past, so the idea you are asking about doesn't apply to him...yet. Still, I think italics will work just fine.

Posted by: Grits Mar 23 2011, 02:10 PM

I’ve been writing each post separately with a rough chapter outline, and I think it shows. I’ve rushed some sections, and I’ve tossed out others because they didn’t fit within a reasonable word limit. For the next chapter I want to write the whole thing, then break it into posts. Maybe that will help me learn how to develop a plot. I find that I’m often confused about what fits in the story as opposed to what’s there because I like it.

Posted by: mALX Mar 23 2011, 08:46 PM

If it is there because you like it - keep it. You have proven your taste is beyond excellent in what you have offered up on your thread - proven your abilities and capabilities. Your characters are strong and developed without being Uber or Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu in any way - they easily draw the readers hearts and interest in them. You have an incredible talent, and I love your story!

Posted by: treydog Mar 24 2011, 12:16 AM

What mALX said. Rule one for writing fiction (or poetry or whatever is not "work-related")- HAVE FUN!

So- if you have something that you like- make the story fit that part! I cannot tell you how much I have changed my original concept because I realized there were things I (and my long-suffering readers) really wanted to see.

Case in point- Athynae, who has basically become the "co-star" was originally just going to be a cameo so I could test my ability to write a more "romantic" subplot. The story would suffer terribly if I had forced myself to "stick to the plan."

Posted by: mALX Mar 24 2011, 12:32 AM

Yes, poor Treydog was inundated with poems about Athynae - do you realize how many words rhyme with her name ??? Like billions! I could have gone on forever with them ... but thankfully Treydog resurrected her into the story to save himself the grief I was causing him with my attempts at poetry, lol.

Posted by: Grits May 5 2011, 12:35 AM

Binder clips are my new best friends. I have a notebook that I write in when I’m out somewhere without my laptop, and a tiny notebook so I don’t get stranded without anything to write on when I don’t think ahead and bring the regular notebook. But sometimes the tiny notebook and the regular notebook both get left behind (sitting next to the laptop), so I write on gas receipts, napkins, envelopes, and the like. Then I often throw these things away without checking the back for scribbling. But no longer! I sprinkled a bunch of binder clips around wherever I might have access to a pen and a scrap of paper, so now I binder clip the scrap and don’t toss it! Woo hoo!

Sometimes it’s the little things.

Posted by: minque May 11 2011, 12:51 AM

Oh my....you're all so very talented here....like professionals, and I can't even dream about catching up...yet. So I will lurk around for now.

I'm not sure I dare continue Serene...with this massive competition, then again, I normally finish what I start even if it take ages!

Posted by: treydog May 11 2011, 01:09 AM

The great thing is- we do not compete- we cooperate. So we have all won. I WILL catch up on my reading (shakes fist defiantly at RL).

And as for you- you simply MUST continue Serene's story.... Don't make me deploy the "Puppy Dog Eyes of Extreme Begging!"

Posted by: Acadian May 11 2011, 01:18 AM

There is no competition, just wonderful stories! Besides, you could hold your own on any stage, minque. You are Serene's mother and Serene is Athynae's mother. Athynae inspires dear Athlain. Athlain inspires dear treydog. And so on. . . . And you all inspire the rest of us so very much.

Who else could possibly tell the story that we all so fervently hope will continue?

Posted by: mALX May 11 2011, 01:39 AM

QFT !!!!

Posted by: haute ecole rider May 11 2011, 03:10 AM

Minque - do you know what is amazing about this forum? We all learn from each other, we all inspire each other. There is no competition here, but rather a brother/sisterhood of writers who are very passionate about the TES world and who share that passion with each other. Since coming here and posting my story here, my writing skills have developed so strongly and so much that I can see a distinct difference between the novel I wrote for Nanowrimo last year and the stories I wrote five, seven, ten years ago.

No doubt this will reflect in your own writing, when you are once again inspired to sit before your computer monitor and start beating on your keyboard.

Posted by: Athynae May 11 2011, 04:23 AM

Being the newbie around here I have read some of several writer's contributions and all that has been said is absolutely true, you all have incredible talent but even more than that, as I read the comments in each thread the one thing that is constant is the wonderful support you give each other.

Minque your ability to put a picture to words is incredible, do not doubt yourself! You have a true gift and speaking from experience, allowing yourself the freedom to put your heart on a page sets your spirit free. It allows you the ability to release into space the experiences that you would not be able to share otherwise. Your pen is waiting word master, and your fans are frothing at the mouth for another dose to quench their addiction to your art.

Trey, thank you for inviting me to this wonderful world!!!!

Posted by: Lady Syl May 11 2011, 06:47 AM

No no no! You mustn't quit! As others have said--no competition. We cooperate! Each of us adds our own unique touch to this forum with our stories--together we create a beautiful tapestry full of life with our characters, and if one thread is lost, the whole thing comes unraveled. Don't pressure yourself, of course, but likewise never give up! I'm sure all of us feel discouraged from time to time, and we all feel like we can't compare to each other at times. But we are a community of writers, each with his or her own thread to add to this exquisite tapestry. So, please do not feel so discouraged, dear.

Posted by: Olen May 11 2011, 07:58 PM

Essentially I'm just going to echo the above - there's a reason I post here and only here. The internet is full of writing places where there's competition and a rather unpleasant atmosphere, maybe good for development (but probably not) and certainly no fun. Chorrol is different, there is useful criticism but there isn't the competitive element, just cooperative.

One thing I will add though is that it's been two years since an update - that itself can be stressful. Getting back to something that's been left is daunting, at least I find it to be. If you keep finding yourself meaning to, but not quite doing it, I'd suggest setting a time when you're going to write some more and not let RL get in the way, then just write. It doesn't have to go up, but it will get the thing flowing again. Even writing a short sidepiece can help get back in the mood of the story, and in the mood for writing.

Certainly I have a date set for getting back to it once I'm finished exams... otherwise I never will.

Posted by: Burnt Sierra May 11 2011, 08:28 PM

And if I might be so bold as to add one other thing, the same thing I've been saying since 2005...

There's only one person who ever has doubts Minkey - about your story, your ability, about your way of making Serene a compelling, thoughtful, layered character. And that's you. Don't doubt yourself. Those same people you say make you feel, I don't know the right word, intimidated maybe? Those are the same people who react with pleasure and joy when you've updated your story in the past. So...(to continue this increasingly laboured point ) if our forum writers here know their stuff, as you say, maybe you do as well....

SO GET BLOODY WRITING!!!

I, for one, want to know what happens next!



p.s. Mind you, it occurs to me that I'm a fine one to bleedin' well talk. I can't even remember the last time I wrote something here. Maybe we both need to get our backsides into gear

Posted by: Grits May 12 2011, 03:42 PM

Hi, I wanted to at least finish Chapter One of Serene of Cyrodiil before I spoke up.

I can imagine a lot of reasons why a writer would put a story aside and not return to it. RL gets busy, and they might move on to other interests. But if you still want to continue Serene’s story, let me add my voice to the chorus encouraging you to do so. This community amazes me. Just look at the number of characters who are able to move through different writers’ stories. I’m guessing it takes a lot of respect and co-operation to accomplish that! What a group of thoughtful, generous, supportive, inspiring individuals. All brought together (in this forum at least) when someone writes a story. The Writer Sub Forums are like treasure chests to me. I would love to know there is more to anticipate from you, Minque!

Posted by: Jacki Dice May 19 2011, 05:26 AM

This!!!!

Its been far too long since I updated. So I get on and start typing...but then I realize just how long its been and it gets harder to do. Of course I can't walk away from it. I think about it all the time, especially the specific plot lines and how to arrange certain things so I hop back to it... and then realize its been so long and the vicious cycle continues.

One of my biggest issues is the "What if I've lost my touch?" repeating itself in my head. No matter how many times I read and fix it doesn't seem to be as good as previous chapters. So I figure I'll read the other stories and draw inspiration...but I'm sooooo far behind those too! -sob-

Posted by: Olen May 19 2011, 11:13 PM

That would be the internal editor of doom. There are a few solutions, I believe Haute was rather forceful with hers during natwrinimo (or whatever the acronym is), I'll let you find the metaphor...

But I'd recommend just writing, read over it later - it'll probably be fine and if not then rework it or just lose it - either way it gets things going again. Failing that write something related, or not.

I believe I've posted links here before, some of them have good articles. The best one I've tried though, if you're really stuck, is to write something you'd never normally dream of writing. Me? I'd never write romance so if nothings coming, especially if it the editor getting in my way, I go and write something racy (and promptly delete it because it's dreadful). It's not the product which matters though - it's the utter shock to the little voice which says "this is no good" and makes it quiet so I can write things I do enjoy. Give it a go, I'd like to see more Champion of Madness.

Posted by: haute ecole rider May 19 2011, 11:54 PM

The metaphor he refers to goes to the relationship I have with my inner editor. I tend to see it as the BDSM kind, with my inner editor being the Dom. Not that I like it (I don't, particularly), but that's just the way it works out.

But during http://www.nanowrimo.org/(the correct acronym), I basically reversed the tables on him and left him bound and gagged like the classic gimp in the corner. It worked well - after a false start, I scrapped the first attempt after a week and started a whole new one. It was wonderful - I wrote 100,000+ in about 21 days. And in reviewing it, it wasn't half bad, either. Two of my friends read it and told me that it was pretty good. I'm waiting to hear from a third.

Discipline is important, I've found. Just write something every day. Whether or not it moves your story forward, or even has anything to do with your story, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are writing.

Olen has the right of it too - if you don't like what you are writing, scrap it. Forget about it. Move on to something else. Be ruthless.

Posted by: treydog May 20 2011, 01:05 AM

The fact that I am a frequent offender on the "I can't write anymore" blotter was one of the things that prompted this thread.

And, although you seem to have already found your muse once more (YAY!)- I will still second what Olen said-

The only REAL way to get past writer's block is to write your way out of it.

To be a writer- you have to write. Find that "moment" or "place" or "chronoclastic infundibula" by enacting your particular "writing ritual." For me, that means going back to a spiral notebook and a blue G2 pen. The entire sensory experience of writing that way reminds me of why I love it.

The words are not important at that point- the act of putting them on paper is. The "right" words will come with time; if there are NO words, the right ones cannot emerge, either.

Posted by: Athynae May 20 2011, 03:44 AM

Or someone could threaten you with a balding spell like I did Treydog, fixed his problem real quick....
hahahahaha

A

Posted by: minque May 22 2011, 09:17 PM

Awwww.....thank you all for most encouraging comments! (Yeah Burnie! You and I reeeeeeally should take ourselves by the collar and START WRITING, right?)

Anyway....as usual my mentor, my idol, sweet Treydoggie just put a spell on me...(.or was it forwarded from Athynae?)

And so I've sort of started outlining chapter 8. I think what stopped me has been that I do have a great deal of the chapter already written, but there has been a deep river between where Serene is now and how to get to the point that I already have written about!
But the spell has showed me a way.....yay

So beware and be very afraid ( ) Serene will soon be back!

PS goddamnit, such a bad english, plz forgive me

Posted by: mALX May 29 2011, 07:34 AM

Congrats to everyone who has picked up the proverbial pen again and graced the forum with your talents again!!

Posted by: Athynae May 29 2011, 12:15 PM

Yes mALX and where is YOUR next installment????? HHMMM???? We are waiting.

Posted by: Lady Syl May 29 2011, 03:11 PM

Agreed--I like what Olen said about writing it out--that's something I've discovered a short time ago when I was going through that ghastly Block... But I got around it much quicker than usual by that advice!

Also, writing everyday is something I would have to endorse--even if I can't write out a story, I write ideas, and sort of brainstorm--if only to keep the creative juices flowing! I've noticed that those times when that dreadful "B" word strikes is after I've had a day or two of not being able to write or even to think about writing.

RL can sometimes get so busy we tend not to think about our stories, and what not--but we should, if we are able, set aside even five or ten minutes just to brainstorm ideas. Or think about it while you're sitting down to lunch--even if you can't write it down, just thinking about it--how you would write it--helps tremendously.

Anyway--now that I've gotten all of that out! *whew, sigh of relief!* Minque--I am glad we all convinced you to keep writing. As a writer, never forget--you must write for yourself, not for anyone else. Share it with us, because we love it! But never write for someone else--do it because you want to do it, because you are moved to do it. I have not read much of Serene's story, but what I've seen is excellent. Once I get caught up on all the other stories I've already been reading, I intend to pick up a couple more to read, and Serene's is one of them at the top of my list!

My dear, you sound like my kind of person! lol. Love it!

Posted by: mALX May 29 2011, 06:59 PM

GAAAAH! (Whew! No hair balding spells threatened ... yet !!! )

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jun 10 2011, 02:31 AM

Writer's block, how I loathe thee!

Posted by: Jacki Dice Jul 30 2011, 03:34 AM

So what do you do about a story that has two very separate story lines? Should they get different threads? Or just keep them combined?

Posted by: treydog Jul 30 2011, 03:55 AM

I am going to answer a question with a question. (Don't you hate that?) Wait- that's TWO questions!

How close are the story lines? Will they "come together" at some point in the future? If so- one thread should do.

Posted by: Verlox Jul 30 2011, 07:46 PM

Depends on how close they're meant to be to begin with. If they have little to do with each other, there might be the most minuscule of cross-overs, but if they rely on each other (Say, Arena and Battlespire), then I could imagine having a combined story.

Posted by: ghastley Aug 1 2011, 02:54 PM

I think I just found the cure for writer's block! I went on vacation for two weeks, and I've come back to more new material than I've ever seen in that space of time. Slow down, please, I need to catch up!

Posted by: minque Aug 9 2011, 12:59 AM

Friends!

I...think I got over it now! The Block I mean! Wish me luck, I have material out for editing now and if it comes through....it will be POSTED!

Posted by: haute ecole rider Aug 9 2011, 01:10 AM

Yaay minque!

Posted by: Athynae Aug 9 2011, 04:44 AM

3 CHEERS!!!!! HIP HIP HORRAY!!!! HIP HIP HORRAY!!!! HIP HIP HORRAY!!!!! That is news worth toasting with vintage wine!!!!!!!

Posted by: Destri Melarg Aug 9 2011, 10:10 AM

No. No. No. NO! Minque, having read your work I can assure you that ‘if it comes through’ should never make it past your internal BS detector. You are a writer . . . plain and simple. Your recent block did not arise from an inability, only disinclination. I implore you to have as much confidence in yourself as the rest of us have in you. Congrats and I look forward to seeing the new stuff!

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Aug 15 2011, 01:07 AM

I was planning on making a topic, but here seems the appropiate place to ask. I am planning a story that will expand for four centuries. Revolving around two vampiric characters who were born with vampirism into a noble Cyrodilic family. While in their home, they are raised and instructed in the ways of the Order. I got those chapters written down, but as for story, I am totally lost. I had ideas of throwing in a College of Cyrodiil lore and Arcane University as a potential story arc in the first century of the story.

What, as readers, makes you interested in a story?

Posted by: SubRosa Aug 15 2011, 02:13 AM

What pulls my interest more than anything else are good characters. Make them believable: with goals, likes, dislikes, faults, and and strengths. Which is to say, like real people. Nothing is more boring than an uber character, or one who is otherwise too happy, or too nice, or has everything go their way all the time. Make them people that we can somehow identify with, and feel empathy for, and you will have succeeded. Lady Syl does a wonderful job of this with her character of Syl in her fan fic. Syl is a character that can be pretty well described in one word: evil. Yet in LS's tale, we find ourselves feeling sorry for her as she suffers horror after horror, and cheering for her when she strikes back.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Aug 15 2011, 04:22 AM

I see. And yes, I have read most of Lady Syl's work, "Memoirs of a Madwoman" on the other Bethesda forum. And I usually try to justify "darker" characters. I was always a staunch supporter of such things, but I don't want to be too selfish when writing a story. Syl's story was superb compared to other fan made stories I've read. But we can only do so much with "Anti-heroes". Since the majority of people can't compare with power-hungry megalomaniacs with justified goals as to why they are that way.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Aug 15 2011, 08:28 AM

I agree with SubRosa. Character is always a good place to start. As long as the characters are interesting I find that I will follow them just about anywhere. I like the idea that you plan to go with, especially the part about them being born with vampirism instead of contracting it the usual way. I think that sets you up for some very interesting views of the characters toward their vampirism.

However I would point out that four centuries seems like a long time to spend without falling into gratuitous angst. There is nothing more tedious than the whining of a vampire at the emptiness of spending eternity alone, especially when all he/she has to do to end it is step outside in the morning.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Aug 15 2011, 03:45 PM

I see. And true, true. Vampire stories can get very tedious, dealing with various scenarios well-known to us such as vampire falling in love with woman, or vampire not accepting his vampirism or vampire trying to save the world. But don't worry, I got extensive knowledge on Elder Scrolls vampires, more than the usual person

And besides, Cyrodilic vampires can survive in the sun, if well fed. But thanks for the response. I will get to it.

Edit: Oh, one more thing. When you guys write stories, do you update your story by going along and adding new scenarios, or do you already have it all written down and just post regularly?

Posted by: haute ecole rider Aug 15 2011, 04:17 PM

It can go either way depending on the author and the story. When I first started writing mine, I had nearly 20 chapters written before I began posting. I kept writing a little at a time while I was posting the early chapters.

Now at this point I try to write about a chapter ahead of my post. I have about a month's worth of posts already written, and am trying to find the time to write the next chapter. So it's a little of both at the present moment for me.

Posted by: SubRosa Aug 15 2011, 05:06 PM

Some people write a segment, then post it, and then start writing the next segment, etc... Some people write an entire story from start to finish before posting. And finally some like me are in the middle, and write an entire chapter (say 10,000 words perhaps), and chop it up into individual posts of 2-3k words each. Then they make a post every two or three days until it is all up. I now keep a posting schedule of twice a week, on Mondays and Thursdays. Acadian posts once a week, on Fridays. The chapter I currently have in the can will take six posts, so I should have it all up by the end of next week. In the meantime I am now writing the next chapter. So hopefully that will be done by the time I finish posting the current one.

Posted by: Kazaera Aug 15 2011, 07:44 PM

I second everything SubRosa says about characters, and will add that it's also important to have the characters *around* your main characters come across as real and believable, even if you have much less space to flesh them out - all the main-character-development in the world is going to fall flat if it seems like the world around them is full of cardboard cut-outs who revolve only around the MC. The best plot, IMHO, is one that arises naturally from your different characters and their ambitions and goals, and there's little I dislike more than reading a story where it feels like the characters are being bent to follow the plot than the other way around.

As far as writing goes, I figure it depends on how you write? For instance, if you know you can churn out, say, 3-4k words of story every week with only rare exceptions, then posting as soon as you finish writing is doable. However, my writing is far more erratic than that, so I need a buffer. Another danger of posting as you go along is that when you write later bits you might come up with ideas or change your mind on some things which makes previously written material wrong. If you've already posted things that are now inaccurate, this can be pretty frustrating. I know some people refuse to post at all until they've finished the entire story because of this.

Relatedly, something I've been meaning to ask is what size chunks people like to post or read? Lately I've been doing around 1.5k-2k in mine, SubRosa's said she posts 2k-3k...

Posted by: Acadian Aug 15 2011, 08:08 PM

As a writer and reader, I prefer episodes of 1-2K posted once or twice a week. My average is around 1600 words and I think you will find SubRosa's average episode length to be very similar. To me, the ideal episode would be 1200 words.

Sometimes it is necessary to go above 2K for a variety of reasons, but I try to avoid it as it invites skimming. I find that when I exceed 2K for an occasional episode it is usually to 'finish' something that began in the same episode - that if not finished would invite undesired or off track speculation. Building to an emotional crescendo can tempt us to run long as well, but I generally find that if I really want to deliver an emotional impact, I actually try very hard to keep the episode under 1K.

As far as the writing process, I 'storyboard' notes to describe concepts, waypoints or scenes out over hundreds of potential episodes - sort of a rough outline. As time draws closer, I transition upcoming aspects of the storyboard to draft prose. I try to work 6-10 episodes ahead in actual draft. I find that by keeping the more distant scenes in storyboard format until within a month or two of posting, it facilitates long range planning and avoids conflicts while allowing plenty of flexibility.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Aug 15 2011, 08:57 PM

Yeah, I fall in the first camp here. I tried to write ahead by several chapters but it just doesn't work for me. My favorite thing about writing for the forums is that sense of immediacy you get from the endeavor. Most of what I write occurs in a vacuum of (over)planning and revision, all of it pretty much on my own. Here I can let my hair down (so to speak) and allow the story to reveal itself to me as it reveals itself to the reader.


I'd say that anywhere in there would be fine. You want enough to give us a hearty meal upon reading, but not so much that we decide to skim the fat and feed it to the dog. Only you can determine your own perfect length. Someone who isn't as adept with word choice as Acadian would find 1200 a stifling word count.

Posted by: Kazaera Aug 15 2011, 09:12 PM

Thanks for the feedback, all!

Ooh, that's a good pro for posting immediately that I hadn't thought of. It's been frustrating me that now all the stuff I'm posting and am getting beautiful feedback on is from what I wrote years ago, and the bits I'm writing now - where I'd really like to both show off the bits I'm proud of and check whether the things I'm unsure about work for people - I probably won't be posting for two months at this kind of update speed. And of course that's unavoidable if you post with a multi-chapter buffer.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Oct 10 2011, 04:46 AM

Okay, I have a conundrum here. I have a piece of drafting that doesn't really seem to fit in anywhere in my grand scheme... but at the same time I don't want to get rid of it.

So... help?

Posted by: SubRosa Oct 10 2011, 08:57 AM

It is hard to give a very specific answer without more details. But just speaking in general, write it. Write anything that moves you to do so. Even if you never post it. The more practice you get, the better you become.

Posted by: Grits Oct 10 2011, 11:31 AM

One of the most helpful tools I have is a file named “Jerric’s Story Didn’t Use.” It’s mostly scenes that I wrote and then cut from the story, either in the last edits or from the outline when I wrote too far ahead. (There is more written from Darnand’s POV in this file than in the posted story.)Keeping the material somewhere makes it easier for me to trim it, so I can go ahead and write out the ideas that sort of seize me without worrying too much first about whether they’ll fit.

As SageRosa said, practice makes you better. I don’t regret a single hour that I have spent writing, whether or not the material gets posted in any form.

Posted by: Athynae Oct 10 2011, 11:54 AM

I agree with SubRosa and Grits and I'll add that I go as far as to save, somewhere, fleeting thoughts or single sentences. Technology obviously makes this much easier, back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth I had a notebook that had as many napkins and pieces of brown paper bag as it did regular paper. The benefit to me, sometimes a single sentence can shake you out of a black hole.

Posted by: treydog Oct 11 2011, 01:05 AM

I have few "rules" when it comes to writing- but one of the few is:

Write EVERYTHING down!

If an idea, a sentence, a word- grabs you- there is a reason. It may never "fit" with the story you are currently working on- or it may. If you do not keep it, you will never know. Sometimes an idea or an image is so compelling that it becomes worth your while to figure out how to "get there from here."

At worst, it may become a seed for something new.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Oct 11 2011, 01:11 AM

Thanks for the advice, all.

I've moved the passage to a newly created "Cut Content" file to keep on hand in case a better context comes up for it later on, or if I choose to do a between-chapters interlude, or whatever else comes to mind.

Posted by: haute ecole rider Oct 11 2011, 02:38 PM

That's what I did with Blanco's interlude in OHDH. I wrote it while the story online was still in the first Oblivion Gate stage, because I couldn't get that damn white horse out of my mind. When I promised him that it would be put in at the right point, he settled down and waited as patiently as Old Paint.

I've been in this situation before - I'd be hard at work on one story, and the creative juices just divert themselves to a new idea or a different concept. All I can do is write it down, put it aside, and find my focus again on the WIP. It helps to refocus if you write the distractions down and get them out of your head (like Boxee and his plot bunnies).

Posted by: Kazaera Oct 12 2011, 09:25 AM

*nods* Sometimes I get seized by things that are far in the future for Adryn and end up going "no, it's not your turn yet!" but later regretting that, when I have to write it when the enthusiasm's gone out of it. The installment I'm just starting to post now took me <em>ages</em> to write, because at one point the idea just grabbed me but then I was still writing an earlier section and wanted to proceed in linear continuous fashion! and by the time I actually reached it that was gone and I really struggled with the dialogue and everything. So now I have some documents marked "Adryn - snippets" in my SitC folder; I know that often I'll need to rewrite chunks of it by the time I actually get there because I'll have changed things around in the intervening time or maybe toss the whole thing altogether, but that's better than the alternative.

...also, there's an idea ghosting around my head that I might eventually write if it solidifies more which is actually a crack DnD/Morrowind crossover set in Adrynverse. Chances of that ever making it into SitC are just about *zero* but it's fun!

Posted by: Jacki Dice Oct 12 2011, 08:08 PM

I do that too. For Wrothken's stuff I have a doc for the current chapter and then another one where I store all past chapters and at the bottom are little reminders or full scenes I have planned for the future. Only bad part is I get sucked into some of those and neglect the current one

Posted by: McBadgere Oct 22 2011, 06:55 PM

Does anyone sit there and go right I have a start, middle and finish of this section, and then as you're writing, everything gets so far apart that you can barely imagine finishing the thing?...Or is everyone so disciplined that it all comes out just the way you thought?... ...

Posted by: treydog Oct 22 2011, 07:44 PM

Restraining myself from laughing hysterically- NOT at you- or at anyone else who actually has a.... plan or... discipline. Just trying to apply those terms to my own method.

What I have discovered is that my plans end up having almost nothing to do with the reality. And the stories are better for it.... The word I use is "organic." And while that COULD imply that my writing might be useful as compost, in this case... it means that the stories have a tendency to GROW in unexpected ways.

So- short answer- the current story started with the beginning and the ending. For the rest it was kind of like- well, let's see what happens. And then... well then, Athynae happened.

For writing, there are as many ways of "doing it right" as there are writers. To add to my rule above (write everything down)- there is this one- HAVE FUN! And you know, those may be the only rules for writing I can think of.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Oct 22 2011, 08:02 PM

I tried planning large portions in advance... that got me nowhere fast.

I work much more in the short-term now. All I define in the broad spectrum is where I want things to start, who the Big Bad is, and how things will end. Then I just let the tale write itself from prelude to conclusion. My individual segments tend to follow a similar style as well, except replacing the Big Bad with whatever I want to happen at that time. I then keep track of what has happened to determine when and where I can make something else happen for it to carry weight with the readers. Pacing is everything. Don't bore your readers with endless heart-to-hearts and one-on-ones, but at the same time don't tire them out with chapter after chapter of nonstop action.

Keep all channels open for ideas, and let your characters direct your fingers on the keyboard. The rest will come through time, patience, and a lot of editing.

I usually end up rewriting large portions of my conversations up to three times before I finally feel it is "right." As in right, I mean everything comes naturally, there are no breaks in character, and it doesn't feel like anything is being forced along.

Posted by: bbqplatypus Oct 23 2011, 05:47 AM

My problem has always been time. Time and procrastination. I've always been meaning to go back to my old story The Interim and re-write it. It's...got problems, to put it mildly. There are parts of it that I can't even bear to read. I could do it a thousand times better now.

But now I don't have the time - largely because I kept putting it off when I DID have the time. And now it might never end up getting done. So yeah...my advice: just suck it up and do it. Not very profound, but more difficult than it sounds if you're like me.

Posted by: ghastley Oct 24 2011, 07:01 PM

What NOT to do is what I just did.

Since Skyrim is approaching, and I'd only played and modded Oblivion, I thought I'd try something earlier. Morrowind is still theoretically for sale, but I can't find a copy in the shops. So I download Daggerfall and install it. I want to play my fave Oblivion character, Blossom, but you can't play an Orc in Daggerfall. So I start modding the game so I can.



Then I have to make some more clothes and armor for her, and look at how the quest system works, and ...

I just stopped myself from re-installing MS Visual Studio so I could rewrite a save game editor that wasn't working properly.

I just caught back up on the stories I've been reading, now to catch up on what I was writing!

Posted by: McBadgere Oct 25 2011, 06:16 AM

*Attempts to wrench eyes away from Orc in thigh high boots and thong... ...*...

Aye, the only reason I plan is 'cause of something I read in the Terry Brooks book "Sometimes The Magic Happens". He says in it that he gets totally lost if he just leaves the plot wandering ...So he has the beginning, middle and end. He also has every character with names that will turn up, and all the rest of it. I'm not going to be that strict but I appreciate what you said about different styles for different writers and all that.

Oh, and the time thing...I have two hours to write in during the day...And that's if I get up at an ungodly hour...Which I haven't for the last two days...I hate that...*Wails* I wanna be young again!!!.... ...Too busy in work and stuff...Too tired!!...*Goes off to make coffee...*...

Urgh... ...

Posted by: mALX Oct 25 2011, 07:04 AM

SPEW !!! I saw that top line in my email and sprayed Pepsi-One all over my monitor, lol. Had to stop by here and see what you were talking about. ROFL !!!

Posted by: haute ecole rider Oct 30 2011, 01:04 AM

I'm with treydoggie here.

My writing process is pretty much organic. Often I start with a scene that won't get out of my head, and I start asking questions such as:

Who are these people?
Why are they in this scene?
How did they get there?
What are they doing?
Where did they come from? Where are they now? Where are they going?
When did this scene happen?

The five basic questions of journalism come in handy when writing fiction, I've found. I've crafted an entire story around a character in a falling elevator. Another originated from a character being attacked by her fellow passengers on a luxury liner. Stuff like that.

Posted by: Kazaera Oct 30 2011, 10:17 PM

At the moment, I'm doing pretty well by writing when I'm meant to be working - um. By that I mean, I'm a PhD student and I'll frequently go work in a coffee shop and write fic in the breaks where it feels as if my brain will melt if I have to write one more equation. But as soon as you give me other things to distract myself with, writing never happens. :/

(Should add: I have a vague idea of where the story is going that gets more fleshed out the nearer things are. Although frequently surprising things /will/ happen in a scene, or a plotline will insert itself where one wasn't before, the overall framework remains. And I actually have a lot of subtle plot threads going on that will get picked up later on.)

Something fun I realised the other day - I deal very badly with mastermind-type characters. I just think the world is too random for their plans to ever work out! And I think this is something that had been bothering me about the Tribunal plot forever - it just seems as if it shouldn't /work/, and I never actually finished playing it because I felt so railroaded.

However! I realised that I do absolutely love it when you have several mastermind characters and their plots all crash into one another until nobody has the slightest clue what's going on anymore. And now I have some plans for Tribunal, ohohohoho I do. *rubs hands together evilly*.

...also, I tried playing Daggerfall a while back - it's sort of relevant for Adryn, how will become clear with time - but I died at the first enemy or something. I /sucked/ at the controls. Very embarrassing!

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Nov 6 2011, 09:22 PM

One of the specifics of my preferred style: details matter. You might note that LtD has a lot going on in the background, from the everyday lives of the townsfolk to the major events such as the Oblivion Crisis and the attack on Cathedral Dibella. Sometimes, one thing that happens to someone that seems mundane enough might re-emerge later down the road. The crowd and the world is as much a character as Derelas and Ariella and Carahil. Another is how strictly I adhere to the first-person viewpoint of the story. Every single observation is from Derelas's point of view, every single world-building or story progression is through his eyes. There are some exceptions, though, but so far only one has ever surfaced.

My goal is to make the reader believe they are him, experiencing the world as he would, and learning about him as he learns about the world. Every little detail exists to help put you there. Some are simply random, others are seed-planting for later adventures, but all are designed to engross the reader.

Posted by: McBadgere Nov 8 2011, 07:20 AM

Pacing...

Right, I've got a story where it could be said that I have a few characters...And I love them all...I can hear them in my head...Shut up Drell!!...And I want them to have decent "screen" time...And of course then new ones that hadn't been intended to be in there turn up and they just demand time...As happened this morning when I was having trouble with something...A character turned up, and instantly he was just what I needed. I knew exactly who he was and what he looked like and sounded...So there's another one...

Dammit, I've gotten myself lost...

Oh yes...When yer writing your stories...How do you keep everyone interested and not lost?... ...'Cause I've got Plot A (Outside the fort), Plot B (The Commander et-al in Kvatch) Plot A then divides into C and D, D then splits into E, B and A combine (oo-er) with "Overall plot" making it's first appearance there...

You see what I mean?...How would everyone else manage something like that in 1500-2000 word episodes?... ...

And yes, I can see answers of Too Many Characters, Too Many Plots...But I swear, I have it all worked out...And the next two stories too...Honest...

Posted by: Grits Nov 8 2011, 12:20 PM

I can’t answer as a writer, but I can give you some ideas about what helps me as a plot-impaired reader.

Putting cues into the story that wouldn’t necessarily be there if it was a book read in long sittings, like you did with the “Beyond the windows they covered, lay the city of New Kvatch” line.

Starting with a little last-episode recap outside the story, like Acadian and several others do here. For your story it could be a last-time-we-saw Caroline recap, or whichever plot you’re picking up in the current post.

Occasional faction/plot updates when it gets really complicated. mALX does this for A New Sun Rises, and I am tremendously grateful. I can refresh my memory and then dive right into the story without any head-scratching.

I haven’t seen anyone do this, but maybe a character index somewhere with a list of original characters? This may seem extreme, but I know I’ve had to search back through stories when an original character pops back up after only a short time in the story but months of real time. Maybe there could be an appendix thread for this kind of thing. Others with more experience probably have better ideas about how to do it. And for everyone who is laughing themselves out of their chairs right now, just think how fortunate you are to keep everything straight in your head!

Posted by: Athynae Nov 8 2011, 12:54 PM

I raise a toast to you Grits, HERE HERE!!! Yes, and yes and....well, yes! The recaps are worth their weight in words! Without them I would just be reading the same things I have already read over and over thinking "Hmm, this seems familiar..." As for the rest, well, I can't say much, I am just writing Thyna's words and letting Trey deal with all that PLOT stuff. Sorry, I know it seems like cheating, yep it's cheating. But I am working on one, we just have to get through BOTM first.

Posted by: Thomas Kaira Nov 8 2011, 09:25 PM

My strategy for recaps is that I don't give them during the body of the current thread, I instead go in roughly 200 post blocks (similar to the BGSF posting scheme, where a thread is closed and restarted after 200 posts). In my final post for that thread, everything that happened in that particular thread gets recapped in one post. This way, any new reader who wants to catch up quickly can simply jump to the end of the threads and there they are, consolidated on one page. Of course, I still encourage people to read the whole thing, but just in case they simply want to be on the same page as everyone else and are relatively new to the forums, they are there, easy to find.

My objective for keeping people up-to-date with the story is to keep things simple and concise. It may seem like there are a huge number of plots going on, but that's not true. there is only one main plot: Dere's experiences and journeys. Also, the story has gradually shifted from being story based (as in thread 1) to character-based in the current thread. Thread 2 is much slower-paced than thread 1, and also easier to follow as I have gotten everything together with the story and know what I want to do. Some things in the first thread didn't work out that well and got dropped (and if there were to be a revision, that would be reflected), but I am still aware of everything that happens that I wish to continue, although most of the major plot points are currently on hold so we can explore Dere's character a bit better.

Now, another musing of mine:

Character building: I don't like using straight-up archetypes that pre-define my characters' actions or decide exactly what they are at the start, I prefer to build those as I go. The idea is that I don't want to have my characters easily summed up in a few words. By not doing that for myself, it makes it easier for me to keep others from doing so, too. I try to make then distinct, but at the same time ambiguous. Every major character we've encountered so far has a mystery behind them, Dere's is why a vampire Ancient is hunting him, Faith's (who will return) is her motivations, and now we have Ariella, who quickly retreated into herself at mention of her birthsign. I then build my characters around how they react and cope with these overarching mysteries, and eventually, what happens between them when the secrets are revealed. Each major character exists not only to further the story, but to develop the others. The only planning they really get is their personality and what their secret is, and then you learn of their deeper selves as they interact with each other. You could call it "social development," in a way.

Posted by: McBadgere Nov 9 2011, 05:44 AM

OOooh, good idea with the recaps...I shall endeavour to mess about with the "Previously on KOTN," idea... ...

I can see how a thread about Dramatis Personae (oooh see that? And at half four in the morning too!! ) would be good, but I think for some of the longer running threads to go back and find all of them might be a problem...I'll see how it looks at the start of the section...Y'know...Starring - J'Drell!! Caroline McWylde!!...Special Guest Boo-Hiss Baddie -...Y'know?... ...

As for character archetypes...As a lot of my chars, and indeed a lot of the types of chars that I read are Knightly or Heroes™ then I will admit they tend towards the same sort of thing...But I'm hoping that there will be subtle differences between them in there...

I'll be going into this more in the second bit, but Caroline is a former Legion General's daughter. She was trained in sword technique by her father, who also trained several other notables including, Robert McWylde, Farn Olfsson, The Emperor...Aaaand someone else that's apparently alright with a sword these days...

J'Drell was one of the top Investigato officers before being called to the Knights...

Thedret, Oholin and Mazkay Dinai are all basically Legionaires to the core...

Y'know...I'm going for the subtle in amongst the cliche... ...

Posted by: ghastley Nov 9 2011, 06:11 PM

Technical change of subject.

What external editor are folks using to draft their content before pasting it into here? I've been using Wordpad, and re-adding the markup for italic and bold etc. after pasting, but I'm sure there's something better suited to the task. The perfect solution would have grammar and spell checks and know all about BBcode markup and the forum's selection of emoticons, but what's out there short of the impossible?

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 9 2011, 06:18 PM

I always use Word to do my writing in. Then I copy and paste as you do when it is finished. Likewise, I have to manually add italics and bold tags to everything afterward.

Posted by: Acadian Nov 9 2011, 06:40 PM

Like SubRosa, I use Word. I've been doing it long enough that I just draft things using the bracket symbols required when I want italics etc. I also conduct several of my edits, along an episode's long journey, in the forum format . I find the simplest (and safest) way to do this is via a PM to myself in the preview mode right here on the forum.

As far as the formatting I use (bold, size) etc on each episode for the title and such, I use a template for that so I just have to change the number and name of the episode in the heading.

After the episode is posted and before I archive it, I do go through it again to remove any forum-unique symbology.

Posted by: liliandra nadiar Nov 9 2011, 06:44 PM

For now, I write in note pad and use the board post to spell check. Writting in the codes is pretty close to second nature by now, but codes are the easy part.

Posted by: minque Nov 9 2011, 06:57 PM

I....use an expert!

Posted by: Jacki Dice Nov 9 2011, 07:50 PM

I use Word and if I'm going to need any html in the story I just type it in manually so when I'm ready to cut and paste, its all set

Posted by: McBadgere Nov 9 2011, 10:57 PM

Word... ...

Umm...Yes, I use Word...Add all the Italics tags and size tags 'nd stuff on a new page, then copy and paste it to my reply...Preview it to check it's all alright then voila...

My drivel is presented... ...

Posted by: Zalphon Dec 4 2011, 07:25 PM

To all the newer writers,

A list of things to help you succeed:

Don't plot the little things. Let them come naturally. If you plot every aspect of the story (beyond the over-arching storyline (which I rarely plot, just have the beginning and end in mind), then you're bound to feel mechanical).

Let characters do what the character would do! This was one of the hardest lessons it took for me to learn (and I learned it from practice). Do not control the characters. Let them make choices (and I know this probably doesn't make sense, but when you've spent a while writing, you'll understand).

Make three-dimensional enemies. Nothing is more boring than Lord Bob Soulcrusher the Destroyer of <Insert Place Here>. Use enemies who have feelings, who care about certain people, who may (or may not) have scruples. Essentially: Don't make the big evil bad guy the big evil bad guy. Give him a reason to do what he does.

Let their actions have adverse effects. Sorry, no one's perfect. In Legacy, Kalian (the protagonist of the prequel, Oblivion's Edge) is revered as a God. And in the Theocratic Tamriel that exists in the story, he is the only god worthy of worship (all others are heresy). If you save the world from seemingly impossible odds, people are going to love you and even worship you. That seems great...until fanatics appear.

Heroes who are actually every-day people with delusions are just as interesting as actual heroes. Read Don Quijote. The story of Don Quijote is known across the world and in many advanced literary classes in college, you'll read about him and study him. He's an average individual who believes he's a knight and fights everyday things believing they're fantastic monsters! But in the end of each encounter, he'll realize it's a real thing and believe a wizard transformed it into a normal thing.

More to come...

Posted by: McBadgere Dec 6 2011, 02:09 PM

I read somewhere that you don't have to be well-read to write well...

Aaanyways, what does everyone else read?...And does it influence the way you write?...

I read Star Wars, Warhammer, Clive Cussler, Dr Who...Stuff like that...All of which are basically multi-character romps...And I think it shows... ...

Aaamywho...What about everyone else...To read or not to read?...

Posted by: Saquira Dec 6 2011, 05:12 PM

I read as much fantasy books as I can. I also read some books that have been inspired by history, and science fiction books, but then I'm a lot more selective. There are books laying all over my room, because even though I've got a card for the library I never use it(mostly because they've barely got any books in English), I buy them instead.

But then I love reading, not everyone does. I don't think you've got to read a lot to be a good writer, though it certainly helps a bit(I think). You get access to a lot more variety in language when you read. And I think it have influenced my way to write a bit, though I couldn't point out anything specific. I use a lot of words that none of my friends or family understand, and I'm quite sure I've picked them up from books I've read.

Posted by: liliandra nadiar Dec 6 2011, 05:45 PM

I'm very fond of reading. The library was a safe haven in middle/high school. About half the boxes still waiting to be unpacked are books, though since I don't have any bookshelves they'll be in thier boxes awhile yet, probably a near equal amount are electronic and I have dog earred bookmarks to 'story-sites' on the web. I stick mainly to Sci-Fi/Fantasy, but I've several Romances as well as Supernatural/Horror. Anne McCafferey (RIP) is my favorite and most common name. About the only requirment I 'have' is the leading female not be a doormat, the more focus on her the better so a lot of my books feature strong female leads. This means several 'classics' are not in attendence, though I have read and enjoyed some, just not enough to make them a perminate part of my collection.

As far as them influenceing, probably more then I've realized. I'm more an avid fan of writing then a writer myself, but it has stimulated my imagination a tad. Lonely childhoods make for very active imaginations, I just have issues actually 'getting' it down. I also suffer from the 'Ohhh Shiney' effect when it comes to things, so my own writing has suffered with Skyrim, though I'm setting an hour or so a day this week to writing.

Posted by: Acadian Dec 6 2011, 06:02 PM

Hee! My reading list looks exactly like the list of writers who read me!

Seriously, I have read a fair amount of fiction over the past several decades and suspect that it can be helpful for turning a nice phrase or painting an immersive description. I have also read a great deal of nonfiction (much of it not by choice) and believe that can help enrich vocabulary and enhance logical thinking. That said, I believe the experience of a long life lived passionately trumps all.

I now find that simply reciprocating here among my own readers provides a beautiful selection of fiction to enjoy and from which to learn and grow. Since I spend so much time immersed with words in the writing process, I find that excessive reading at this point simply invites burnout.

I take writing very personally here, and do not separate the writer from their story. As such, I am drawn to writers who display a gracious humility and encourage others. I find this more important than any technical aspects of storytelling - particularly in a forum venue.

When I read the work of others here, my purpose is two-fold. First, I want to return the support of any writer who takes the time to support my own humble efforts. Second, I try to assess what that writer’s objectives are and attempt to respect whatever those may be via cheerful encouragement.

That said, my fave fiction is character-driven and set in Tamriel (no surprise there).

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 6 2011, 06:13 PM

Ever since I was a child I used to read voraciously. But in the past decade or so I have just not had the time with everything else in life. So now all I read are fan fics online. Back in the day I read Tolkien, Harry Turtledove, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Michael Moorcock, Lovecraft, Brian Lumley, Karl Edward Wagner, Parke Godwin, Anne McCafferey, the Star Wars Tales Of... anthologies, etc... I have also read a lot of history, mostly about the ancient world, such as Thucydides, Peter Connolloy, Victor Davis Hanson, etc... Plus comparative religion/psychology like Jung and Joseph Campbell, not to mention Pagan books like those by Chris Penczak, Starhawk, Kerr Cuhulain, and so on (many of the latter I have met too btw.).

When I was in my teens I did not have much money, so I would buy my books at the local used books store, and trade them in when I was done. I would buy half a dozen books in a shot, then come back the next week for half a dozen more. So my collection is actually very small, but I have read tons.

It certainly influences how I write. Because when I read a story, I cannot help but to 'look under the hood' at how the author is crafting the story. I take note of what drives the piece, be it character, setting, or plot. I see how they go about doing that, etc... Basically I deconstruct the story, to see how they pieced it together. I learn a great deal just from other fan fics in fact. Case in point H.E.R.'s habit of doing very small flashbacks, often just of one sentence, is something I have picked up doing as well to refer to small things, without wasting an entire scene on them.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 6 2011, 10:46 PM

I know it’s been a long silence from me but I hope you will indulge my two cents on the matter. Reading as a writer is very different from reading for enjoyment. Enjoyment can be had of course, but I find myself studying what I read in order to help my own writing. I also find that, like Acadian said, reading while you are in the process of writing can hinder your efforts. Ultimately, that you read is more important than what you read (and I can just see my old English Lit professor rolling his eyes at that statement). I learned a lot about the pacing of an action sequence by reading Raise the Titanic and Treasure, so I am right there with you on the Cussler love, McBadgere. I also spent most of my thirteenth summer in a cast surrounded by Tolkien, Piers Anthony, and Edgar Rice Burroughs. I would encourage anyone with an interest in the art to read Gatsby, Moby D#ck (really forum censor?), Madame Bovary, Huckleberry Finn, or anything from Charles Dickens and Jane Austen to discover the sheer music created by the perfectly formed sentence. Read The Grapes of Wrath, To Kill a Mockingbird or the Killer Angels to discover that genre is not a determiner of the perfect novel. Read the short stories of Richard Matheson and Charles Beaumont if you want your mind turned into a contented jelly (no surprise since they both worked on the original Twilight Zone). Above all, just continue to read. Always.

Posted by: Jacki Dice Dec 7 2011, 07:12 AM

I used to read Lois Duncan books to death. Then I discovered Dean Koontz. Omg, omg, omg, I love his books! I also admit I'm a Harry Potter fan. I haven't read the sixth and seventh books in years so I can't tell you what happens in them, but I loved them. I've read some Edgar Allen Poe and I loved Shakespear's Titus. The thing I've read the most though are books on witchcraft. Even if its a book I'm not really liking, I try and tough it out just to see how they do things and see what it is I don't like so I can try and avoid it.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 20 2012, 06:44 PM

Hey guys! What's up. I just have a question regarding....a most natural topic, but seldom encountered in some of the ES storie's I've read; sex.

How far could we go with a sex scene? Using it in stories too much is a "no no", I am sure. So maybe once or twice. But how much can we put in? I did not want to make a chapter of mine composed of paragraphs full of pornography, but it ties in with the character and the overall events that will lead after.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: mALX Jan 20 2012, 06:52 PM

I don't think it matters how often it is in there, but how much description you give it that can get it bam-hammered by the mods.

What I've done with any scenes I'm concerned about posting is to run them by a mod over at the BGSF forum. If they approve, I post it.

That goes for other scenes as well, in particular violence/gore/or in my case - vampires. (the vampires in my story are fairly erotic creatures).

Just remember when writing descriptives that anything you write on any TES forums will be read by minors, that should keep the porn out while keeping the prong in.

Posted by: McBadgere Jan 20 2012, 06:58 PM

Yes, go read Acadian's latest chapter... ...And Subrosa's a few episodes back...*Loosens collar*...

*Prepares to type*...No...Don't go there...

This forum is PG-13 I read...So graphic descriptions are out of the question...

Finding ways to suggest it is more impressive writing than...Y'know...A Black Lace novel...(I blame the wife)... ...

If it ties in, I'm not sure entirely what to suggest...But...Y'know...Constant full-on is...Beyond the censor?...

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 20 2012, 07:01 PM

Thanks guys, I think I have an idea. Thankfully, I won't go as far as to add "Spear polishing" or "Kneed the loaf".

And mALX: Yeah, they are erotic creatures, which makes me want to modify the content down.

Posted by: mALX Jan 20 2012, 07:07 PM

If you are a memeber at the BGSF (Bethesda Official Forums) - send your proposed content to the mod Leydenne for approval. If she okays it, print it. That's how I do all of mine. Still, even if approved by her, if someone complains, be prepared to alter it.

I only had to alter one scene so far. It was a vampire first "emerging" (no sex) and was approved by a mod at the BGSF, but someone on this site complained so I altered it to slightly less erotic.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 20 2012, 07:15 PM

Eh, me and the mods do not tread common ground. But I will reread my work and see if it's suitable. Stinks that someone complained about your post. And by the looks of it, it wasn't even too sexual(Prove me wrong maybe).

I hope you don't mind mALX, I sent you a PM with the brief sex scene.

Posted by: mALX Jan 20 2012, 07:20 PM

As for "spear polishing" - that is actually in one of the in-game books in both Oblivion and Morrowind, and I have personally used it in my story. It gives the idea without any graphic details, so is perfectly acceptable.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 20 2012, 07:48 PM

Hence why I used the term. We all read the Lusty Argonian maid, am I right? haha.

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 20 2012, 08:18 PM

I think as long as you do not get into minute detail about licking genitals or swallowing fluids you will be fine. I have kept my erotic scenes down to describing kissing and caressing, but not gone any further. You can end the scene and let the reader imagine what happens next. I have also written them from the next day, with the character looking back fondly upon events of the previous night. Again, without going into exacting detail, but enough so that the reader knows the mattress was danced upon.

For example:

Posted by: mALX Jan 20 2012, 08:25 PM

Yes, and "The Real Barenziah" also. Oddly enough, they are my favorite in-game books, lol.

Posted by: mALX Jan 20 2012, 08:26 PM

Not sure if the censor got your words or if you edited them, but your original response had me rolling, lol.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 20 2012, 08:50 PM

Perfect. Licking genitals and fluid swallowing(LMAO) is definetly not what I had in mind. Nice quote btw, gave me a a general idea.

Posted by: Fawkes Jan 22 2012, 02:56 AM

I tend to do the fade to black in the sex scenes.

Anyway my question is, I been writing rather allot this past week, thing is most of the chapters are for different characters, how should I go around to posting them? Should I just say who is the character for the current chapter, or well my plan was to post couple of chapters for the same character then switch to another.

Another thing, I currently have 5 chapters for my Jericho fan fiction, should I make a new thread or should I just keep all my writing in one thread, in that case I'll have to change the name of the thread and dedicate the tread to my writing, but I'm afraid that will just confuse people.

Posted by: treydog Jan 22 2012, 03:53 AM

What has worked for those who have a largish cast of characters and switch point of view is to do a quick-"What has been happening" piece (usually in a different font) at the beginning of a new post. You could also use that intro to indicate who the readers will be seeing. Just a couple of sentences can take care of it.

There is not a "thread limit" or "how many stories one writer may have current limit" here. Therefore- if you are working 2 or 3 (or more) stories, each one can have its own thread- which keeps things organized.

If you decide a particular thread has reached a "stopping place" you can ask a mod to lock it and then you can begin a new thread- even if it is a continuation of the exisiting story. Purely a personal choice on that one.

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 22 2012, 04:53 AM

I suggest a different topic for each character. That will keep readers from becoming confused about who/what they are reading about. There is no limit to the topics you can have open here, so make as many as you want.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 23 2012, 04:16 AM

Word limit? Anyone have a call on that? And how long should I wait before I post another chapter?

Posted by: Acadian Jan 23 2012, 04:21 AM

I like episodes of less than 2000 words and a posting frequency of no more than once or twice a week. For what it's worth, I also recommend only one open story at a time so you are not asking readers to split focus.

Posted by: Fawkes Jan 23 2012, 04:22 AM

Ah thanks guys, I'll put my Skyrim one on hiatus while I edit the chapters around, and start my Oblivion on since I'm writing about it more and it somewhat comes more naturally.

As for word limit, well I personally love long stories, hate it when they end so fast haha. as posting another chapter well I'm not sure, I have not posted because school, hospital and what not, Just don't force yourself to write it

Posted by: mALX Jan 23 2012, 04:23 AM

Usually if it goes over 2000 words with no break points - it ends up being a wall of words and can burn a reader out a bit. As far as frequency goes, many try not to post more than twice per week. That gives the other writers time to read other people's stories (and work on their own as well).

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 23 2012, 04:30 AM

[quote name='Acadian' date='Jan 23 2012, 04:21 AM' post='138145']
I like episodes of less than 2000 words and a posting frequency of no more than once or twice a week. For what it's worth, I also recommend only one open story at a time so you are not asking readers to split focus.
[/quote] Sounds very reasonable.

quote name='mALX' date='Jan 23 2012, 04:23 AM' post='138147']
[quote name='Darkness Eternal' post='138144' date='Jan 22 2012, 10:16 PM']
Word limit? Anyone have a call on that? And how long should I wait before I post another chapter?
[/quote]

Usually if it goes over 2000 words with no break points - it ends up being a wall of words and can burn a reader out a bit. As far as frequency goes, many try not to post more than twice per week. That gives the other writers time to read other people's stories (and work on their own as well).
[/quote]
Same thing Acadian said. Thanks.

Posted by: Athynae Jan 23 2012, 12:58 PM

and now you have your third vote...sort of. I am a step child around here, I contribute to Trey's story. I do agree with mALX and Acadian on length as well as frequency for the most part but don't LIMIT yourself to a rigid word count. IMHO by doing that you run the risk of stifling and "limiting" the story. If you write a particularly long piece and there is a good breaking point (usually one that leaves the reader dangling from a cliff) use it. But if breaking interrupts the flow of the read, DON'T break it.

Just a couple pennies I thought I'd share.

Posted by: Colonel Mustard Jan 23 2012, 08:02 PM

Generally, I go for a minimum size of 2000 words, and a maximum of 5000 for each chapter. I make exceptions for one-shots, which usually turn out longer, but otherwise that seems to generally work best. Plus, by the time I'm done with the events of a chapter, that's usually the length they end up as.

Posted by: Cardboard Box Jan 29 2012, 01:46 AM

Ladies, gentlemen, and those on the waiting list:

As I've mentioned before, I'm effectively ghostwriting (me and my big mouth) a Halo/FO3 crossover for a fellow I've previously described as a Scottish blurt. Because that's how he seems to write.

I just received a piece of writing (if you can call it that) from him, which is almost readable - he's almost using paragraphs! But...

When I finished the last piece I sent him, the story was on the verge of an action scene. Unfortunately, what he wrote can be summarised as:

1. John Spartan charges into the Super-Duper Mart and kills all the raiders yayyyy!!

2. SUDDENLY! Giant 5-metre tall acid spiders that are meaner than deathclaws and owe a lot to Dead Space, Resident Evil, Silent Hill and... God help us... Doctor Who.

3. A history lesson on same.

My problem is working out how to tell this little Scots terrier on meth and sugar rush that this is a truly terrible idea that'll wreck the whole story - basically 'too many cooks spoil the broth'.

Suggestions?

Posted by: McBadgere Jan 29 2012, 05:06 AM

...

Well, one idea is...Tell him that 5-metre tall spiders are a stupid idea, and if he doesn't like it he can do it himself...

Another is...Let him do it himself...

If you're getting paid for the ghostwriting, fine, fair enough...If not, why the hell?...

Point out that 20 foot tall spiders (plural) are going to put a dent in anyone's post-apocolyptic world...And Halo-troops or not...That's just silly...And let him do it himself...

Point out that 20 foot tall spiders are silly...

Point out that if you put these 20 foot tall spiders in the story it's going to seriously c*ck it up, and so could he please change his idea please...Or he can do it himself...

I know a story about Noel Gallagher and Ghostwriting, and why Oasis changed after What's The Story (Morning Glory)...

I hate that...Ghostwriting sucks...

20 foot tall spiders suck...

Good luck... ...

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 29 2012, 07:14 AM

Unless you are being paid, I suggest you simply not do this ghostwriting and let the Scots terrier do it himself.

Posted by: Fawkes Jan 29 2012, 07:25 AM

I agree, well first tell him that, as Rob said, 20 foot tall spiders suck..., if he starts being difficult, just don't do it, you are under no obligations

I myself am having trouble writing, I have never written a 3rd person story, or well a narrative, which is sort of the style that I'm going for. Hehe guess I'll just write, can't expect myself to write a master piece the first time.

Okay now for the question, I need help making a title, Inserting "Journal" into the title does not fit Jericho, since he is illiterate and well of course is not capable of keeping a journal. Hehe, my brain is drawing a complete blank, any suggestions?

Posted by: McBadgere Jan 29 2012, 07:44 AM

The scrawls of Jericho?... ...

And I'd only written a couple of things about 15 years ago...And aside from the odd thing for junior school...Not properly...Ever...

Just try...It's all you can do...Having read your other journal stuff, it's bound to be good though...You've good stuff there...

*Applauds*...

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 29 2012, 08:36 AM

I had trouble coming up with a title for the Teresa fic. So in the end I just called it Teresa of the Faint Smile. Creative eh?

If you are going to be writing something with a definite beginning, middle, and ending, then pick a title that suits the theme or plot of the story. If you are writing more of an ongoing journal style, with no specific plot, then I suggest you go for a more generic title like I used. Adventures of Jericho, Once Upon A Time In Cyrodiil, etc...

Posted by: Cardboard Box Jan 29 2012, 10:21 AM

Because when I saw the crossover, I saw potential for a damn good story, buried underneath a steaming pile of illiteracy and poor thinking. I mean, the guy originally had the entire DC Ruins area walled off apparently overnight! Add to that a grasp of grammar and spelling so loose it was falling to bits...

So I clicked 'review' and opened my big, helpful, stupid yap.

The rest, as they say, is a learning experience.

I think I'll let him know the idea doesn't really fit in this story but will need its own to do it justice - let him down gently.

Then I'll set him some homework.

Thanks for the feedback.

Posted by: McBadgere Jan 29 2012, 08:18 PM

Fair dues, I hope it leaves you with enough time for yer own stuff though...

I also hope that one day you can carry on with that story you started about the Imperial dude...That was brilliant...I really was enjoying that...*Applauds*... ...

Good plan about telling him...It may be better than mine... ...

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 29 2012, 08:53 PM

So, crossovers is acceptable here, then? I remember seeing something regarding the island of Solshtheim!

Posted by: McBadgere Jan 30 2012, 07:04 AM

I believe that as long as it's Bethesda (it isn't called Chorrol.Com for nothing ) I think it's a case of write what you want... ...

Cardboard Box's is an Oblivion/Fallout 3 crossover...

But Colonel Mustard is writing a fantastic Fallout New Vegas story that has no Elder Scrolls in it...I'm really really enjoying that btw...

I think crossovers are fine...If we like it we'll keep reading it... ...

If you want to crossover to Halo or X-Files or what-have-you then that place that Colonel Mustard also posts, Fanfiction.net, is probably more receptive to it... ...

But I think crossing over between the Elder Scrolls games is fine...Well I hope so...I got plans for me characters in Skyrim anyways... ...

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 30 2012, 07:27 AM

I mean as in a character from another person's story make a cameo apperance, and vice versa. Or have one character from a single story appear in the other one.

Posted by: Fawkes Jan 30 2012, 07:30 AM

Ohh, I seen a couple like that, the only one that I can remember right now is Buffy appearing in Subrosa's fic.
I KNOW that there are more cameo appearances, can't remember though.

Posted by: McBadgere Jan 30 2012, 07:35 AM

Erm...Within yer own stories, yes. of course...But I think permission should be sought if you want to use someone else's...

And that whole Blood On The Moon/Memoirs of a Morag Tong thing is...A complicated arrangement anyways... ...

mALX has used a couple of other people's characters...Grits had a location from Acadian's story...Y'know, stuff like that...

Permission is the key...

And don't kill any of them off...It's Impolite... ...

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Jan 30 2012, 07:37 AM

Oh, I know the procedures. I was just curious as to how often it was done here. I know taking other people's characters without permission is a no no

Posted by: Fawkes Jan 30 2012, 07:38 AM

And not gentlemen like at ALL.
Just don't kill them and ask permission, like Rob said, also try not to pair them of with someone unless the author gave you permission to.

Posted by: mALX Jan 30 2012, 07:57 AM

Acadian's Buffy has been in SubRosa's (and vice-versa) and has a cameo coming up in mine in X number of months
King Coin's Aravi has been in mine and is slated for two other stories
My character Maxical has been in Acadian's
D.Foxy's characters Damien "Foxy" Reynard and Sneakers have both been staples in my story
Treydog and his wife have both been in my story
Winter Wolf's and Remko's characters were both in Acadian's story
Thomas Kiara had several references to other characters in his story

Also, content - I have cross-overed both content referrals and character Docata from Rachel the Breton

There are several others, I just can't think of them right now.


It is not just needing to ask permission though, you have to send the final draft to them for approval of how you have portrayed their character - and they may want to make edits to that in order to agree

Posted by: mALX Jan 30 2012, 08:01 AM

Ignore post, written in the middle of the night when my brain was actually dead and my memory buried earlier.

Posted by: Grits Jan 30 2012, 11:57 AM

Is there a mod called Equestria? The Equestria in Jerric's Story is the one from Buffy's world, borrowed with permission of course.

Posted by: Athynae Jan 30 2012, 12:50 PM

Typically, I think, the borrowing is for a chapter or so if the character is actually playing a support role, sometimes it is just a cameo like Aravi (sp?) appearing in mALX's story. In treydog's story he borrowed one of Minque's characters, Serene's daughter Athynae, mentioned in the beginning of her story as the reason she is writing it all down. Now, Trey has blown her into a leading support role and well, the rest shall we say is history...and the characters in three stories now share (with permission) alternate universes.

Working with writers you admire, and in my case actually becoming the writer for one of those characters just by odd chance, it a wonderful experience. I so appreciate Trey and Minque sharing Athynae with me, and Black Hand allowing Seth to play such an integral roll in Athynae's life.

Now, guys, apologies for getting a little behind on the reading, I'll catch up, promise. And you will all see soon why I got behind.

Posted by: Acadian Jan 30 2012, 01:26 PM

No, Equestria and the Valley of Horses is pure imagination. Buffy and Teresa have crossed into each others stories more than once. I have also referenced bobg's Angel and deceased Sarah in Buffy's story.

Posted by: McBadgere Jan 30 2012, 01:51 PM

That's what I thought when I read the credit on Grits' story...But I will admit to not knowing anything about Mod names... ...

Ooooh, plus...Something I thought of this fair morn...How we all use magic in our story is different...And while we can multiverse each other's characters, they will not do some things the same way...

Something else to think about when multiversing... ...

Posted by: mALX Jan 30 2012, 02:38 PM

GAAAAH !! I was wrong. I sent the horse ranch (called the IC Horse Ranch), the Show Horse Jumping Track, etc - (all by Zira) to Acadian, but he never used them - and he made up the name too


URK !!

Posted by: Fawkes Feb 5 2012, 11:47 PM

I got a question, how do you guys deal with Writers Block, er well It's not writers block per say, I know what I want to write but I can't seem to get it into writing.

Any tips?

Posted by: treydog Feb 6 2012, 02:12 AM

Early in this thread, I wrote a long meditation on the problem of writer's block. Since quoting myself would be a bit much even for me- I will skip that step.

In the situation you describe- having ideas but not getting them on the page- I would recommend doing it this way:

Write whatever you know for certain is "there." It does not matter how fragmentary or unconnected it may be- get it on paper. Sometimes, you can build an entire scene from a single sentence or even a few words. I do not want to presume too much based on what you have said, so I will leave it at this- most of the folks who write on here maintain some kind of "work-in-progress" or "ideas for later" file or notebook or brown paper grocery bag. That way, less gets lost. If you want to, feel free to expand on what is happening (or not happening) with your writing in this thread. Or PM me or another writer. Here's hoping for the block to disappear.

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 6 2012, 07:28 AM

For me, whenever I've gotten stuck, I wind up writing a different bit...Doesn't matter whether it was supposed to be the next bit, as it were.

That's where that last part of mine came from...Perhaps I should have sat on it though...It seems to have confused things too much... ...

Just try to write something...Anything...

But don't stress that it isn't the very next part of the story...As Trey said, something that you know you have...

Posted by: Fawkes Feb 6 2012, 05:19 PM

Thank you guys! I went to read what you posted on writers block Trey.
I've taken both of your advices and just came up with I guess you could say "plotlines" that won't happen for a while.

I think that I'm going to do it like you McBadgere, I'll see if I can write it different, maybe I can pump those creative juices stuck in my head to my writing

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Feb 6 2012, 08:07 PM

Go outside, use ideas. Plants, trees, buildings, people, lakes etc. Or watch movies for inspiration. Or just keep writing McBad said.

Posted by: mALX Feb 7 2012, 02:23 PM

Reading other's stories can inspire, and that works for how you want to say something as well.

My last chapter had a segment where one description was inspired by something I read in Darkness Eternal's story.

Alexander (this Site's Administrator)'s story "Cyrodiil" inspired a whole different way of writing a story for me.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Feb 7 2012, 03:48 PM

Truly. You wrote about a certain aspect vampires have, the bloodlust and the thirst for it. I always wanted to come to write it, but since I'm a lore fanatic of sorts, I might have to make a way for it to happen. After all, a young vamp has little control over bloodlust. So to be honest, I enjoyed reading that part of the story.

Safe to say I got over a writer's block, but I found out that you can "skip" scenes, per se. It helps alot. For example, you can write an entire chapter on his Tiberius went to purchase bread for a khajiiti cook, or you can explain that he went there, how he went there and what happened when he got there instead of adding the trivial details like: "Tiberius was on the road, studying the particles of dust that sat upon a particle of dust while floating with the countless other dust particles."

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 11 2012, 08:54 PM

If, say, you've been an ar$e and deleted the next part of your story from the computer...Pffft...As if...

*Cough*...

Erm...Do you a) rewrite the bit that you deleted

or f) Re-hash the plot and start afresh with a new bit...

And yes, the bit that went had more overarching things than the whole of what went before put together...

Just wondering what anyone else had done when faced with a complete re-write?...

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2012, 08:58 PM

I have it in full if you need it, it is still in my email box.

Posted by: Athynae Feb 11 2012, 09:07 PM

I am not going to say anything about "why" or "how" this happened....(raises eyebrow at stuttering badger). But what I would do is, first take a moment and breath. After that think about where the story is right now, are there any 'things' that need additional information, clarification etc and write them down, then think about where the characters are, what they are thinking and how they are feeling and (ok, here goes my weirdness) step into that essence and look back at what you wrote down. That will hopefully get you started....and if it doesn't just be happy that you aren't as weird as I am....

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2012, 09:10 PM

I have it in full if you need it, it is still in my email box. (and PS, I read it and loved it !!)

Posted by: treydog Feb 11 2012, 09:36 PM

Moot question- due to someone else's perspicacity...

However- to answer anyway-

What may seem a disaster can be a place to build anew. While it might have been the greatest post ever in the history of posting- 'tis gone now-farewell old friend.

But- the seeds still exist. I would not try to recreate the exact post. I WOULD try to get the parts I know need to be in there. And then- see where those take me.

Which is rather a way of describing how I have somehow gotten to over 400 pages of my current story- which was originally going to be the "shortest one."

Posted by: Grits Feb 11 2012, 10:57 PM

I once dumped an entire chapter (sixteen posts, IIRC). I had to grieve first before I could start over. Then I made a tiny skip in events so that I wouldn’t get stuck where things went wrong. I realized that I had started second guessing things before I wrote the chapter, and the whole thing was unnecessary. I was much happier when I went back to the original outline.

Realizing that I had made a big mistake was a real learning experience, once I quit kicking myself over it. That was the hardest part. I ended up with a lot more confidence in my characters, because I had seen my mistake.

Of course in this *cough* theoretical example, it sounds like the deleting was the mistake? In which case thank goodness for mALX and that … someone … didn’t finish off by lighting their computer on fire.

Posted by: mALX Feb 11 2012, 11:21 PM

For future deleter reference, my email is like one of those "hoarder" places. I save everything until I have responded to it, lol. (except junk/spam mail).

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 12 2012, 05:33 AM

Sadly no, for reasons it's unfair to go into this was actually part of a solution I'm afraid...

And I shall never be able to thank mALX enough for being as cool as she has been of late... ...

Aaamywho, thanks to mALX I can now move forward as was planned...You lucky people you... ...

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Feb 12 2012, 09:07 AM

Time skip. It's safe to skip four days in a story right? I've seen it done before. I just never really did it.

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 12 2012, 09:20 AM

Er...yeah... ...

It's safe to say I have no problem with messing about with time... ...

Posted by: mALX Feb 12 2012, 03:15 PM

I remember back at the Bethesda forum that Acadian ended one chapter with Buffy starting out to Bravil, and the next chapter began with her arrival in Bravil. That upset some of his readers, they felt he should have described the trip. I don't exactly agree with that, especially if the trip was uneventful.

With the main character sometimes just a small paragraph giving a brief cover of their activity can be given, supporting characters don't need even that.

Of course, if your main character has been kidnapped and her brother is pretending he knows nothing of it to their father - your readers are going to clamor if four days passes and they don't know what Draken did to find Raven, or the fate of poor Raven herself .... .... .... ARGH !!!!

Posted by: treydog Feb 12 2012, 03:38 PM

One of the JOYS of writing fiction is that you are not constrained to report every minute of every day. You absolutely can time-shift in service to your story.

It may be that you need to give a nod to the passage of time such as- "For the next several days, nothing of significance occurred."

That is the simplest form of time-shifting. However, you can also do flash-backs, flash-forwards, dreams or fantasies- etc. Sometimes those methods can be used to obscure the events or their order- and the is OK, as long as it does not do violence to the story or your vision of it.

An example from back in my English instructor days is the Faulkner short story "A Rose for Emily." It is told in that inimitable Southern U.S. style- with the teller wandering back and forth through time and incidents as they occur to him- rather than in the order they actually happened.

As an exercise, we mapped out the ACTUAL timeline versus the order in which things were presented in the story.

This all comes back to the title of the thread, at least for me- "Writing Process." You start with the things you KNOW need to be in there. But the order or the detail in how you present those things- and all the connective bits- is purely up to you.

Posted by: mALX Feb 12 2012, 03:54 PM

"Four long days passed, of which the majority of her time was spent hovered over the chamberpot as the poison made its way out of her system in various ways"

Yeah, we will all wonder what exactly went on for those four days, ROFL !! If you leave it up to our imaginations it may turn out worse than just telling us about them, lol. (just kidding).

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Feb 12 2012, 04:39 PM

Treydog: Can you believe it would of never thought of that? Flashbacks! I used it before, but never in a time where it was truly required. Thanks! I will take what you said to heart.

McBadgere: Eww. Sounds like a bad case of defecation to me.

Posted by: McBadgere Feb 12 2012, 08:05 PM

Er...As a wise man once said...What you talking about Willis? ...

Posted by: mALX Feb 12 2012, 08:23 PM

Er...I thought he refused to say it ... ? Isn't that what the court case was all about? ROFL !!!

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Mar 30 2012, 10:21 PM

I don't know if it was answered here or not, but how many stories can we have? For example, can we just have a second story? Or what?

Posted by: jack cloudy Mar 30 2012, 10:26 PM

I don't think there is a real limit, especially if you finish one before starting another. But assuming you meant simultaneously, I suggest you keep it down to just two or three at most. If you don't, then before you know it you'll be juggling five stories, all with multiple plot-threads. Doing crazy stuff like that has scientifically been proven to lead to burnouts lasting several years.

So yeah, try to focus on two at a time.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Mar 30 2012, 10:56 PM

Thanks. Two was my plan anyways. I can't see a person that has three to four stories at once can be stable. Haha.

Posted by: Darkness Eternal Apr 4 2012, 11:35 PM

How many of you folks use music in your stories to express a certain scene or chapter? Or maybe even inspiration?

For example:

"Chapter I"

*Insert song here*
Mr.Warrior walked along side the road, eyeing the birds and the bees.

Not Screamo music or anything like that. No, not even rap or hip-hop for Redguard. You know what I mean

Posted by: Jacki Dice Apr 5 2012, 05:04 AM

I do! I'm doing it now, actually Certain songs can bring out certain feelings in me and it really helps to bring things out in my writing.

As for inspiration, the entire story for Nemesis was inspired by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnqfSVeUiiM by Cradle of Filth. ♥

Posted by: mALX Apr 5 2012, 05:14 AM

I have certain songs I play when I'm writing for certain characters. Example:


Vicente: Cry Little Sister


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InRw0Pm89eg



Gils: Unforgiven II


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoTcb6vtGEo

Posted by: Olen Apr 5 2012, 07:42 PM

I tend to set the mood with music and have various playlists. Film scores are good, by design they set a mood but aren't distracting. The gladiator score sees a lot of use. Likewise music from games can be useful (often buried as mp3s somewhere in the install).

While in general I prefer music without lyrics there are a few tracks which are great for setting the mood. Joan Baez http://youtu.be/bpD5_c2j1OM is a good example.

Posted by: McBadgere Apr 5 2012, 07:50 PM

I'm not sure DE means what music do we listen to to write...

Isn't it -

Chapter 1

(Web-link to song to fit mood - Ernie the fastest milkman in the west)...

Bert walked briskly down the road, bottles jingling in the moonlight. He was somewhat alarmed when Mrs Scroggins from number 24 decided to start chomping on his throat.

"Ere!! Get owff meh!!" he cried, "I've got a round to finish!"

"Rawr!!" said the undead matron sporting bright green curlers, flannelette nighty and floral slippers.

-----------------

Sort of thing?...

No, I wouldn't do that personally...

You won't want to be listening to Starship, Yes or the Three Degrees' Givin Up, Givin In... ...


EDIT...As you were...I think that's what's meant... ...Sorry about that... ...

Posted by: mALX Apr 5 2012, 08:27 PM

OMG, Jacki - now that is absolutely fitting and inspiring for writing Tara's character.