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Posted by: Renee Oct 27 2020, 06:06 PM

Which do you prefer, First or Third person? I am mostly a 3rd person gamer for Bethesda titles. I'll switch to 1st occasionally, I'll do this while decorating or looking for something which is lost, for instance.

But here's the real reason I started this thread. I have this whacked-out theory, I wonder if there's any truth to it. For those who have played table games, especially long ago. There were two basic ways to approach table games.

-- 1). play-act everything, essentially you'd 'voice' your character.
-- 2). use lead figurines, https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dungeons+and+dragons+figures&form=HDRSC2&first=1&scenario=ImageBasicHover.

We used figurines around our table, back in the '80s. We'd see our characters at all times, just like seeing pieces on a Monopoly board. I think this has something to do with my preference for 3rd person. I wonder if anybody here was more of a play-acting type, and prefers 1st. Probably not, but I had to wonder aloud.

Thank you

Posted by: Kane Oct 27 2020, 06:15 PM

Mainly 3rd with the occasional switch to 1st with things like precision aiming.

Posted by: mirocu Oct 27 2020, 06:20 PM

Feels like I've answered this before


But yeah; first. Always first. I like to experience the world directly through the eyes of my character.



Should have added a poll, Renee!

Posted by: ghastley Oct 27 2020, 08:01 PM

Depends on the game:

Arena and Daggerfall - first person, no choice offered!
Morrowind - first during fights, third while walking, and walking, and walking ...
Oblivion - usually first, but often third while travelling
Skyrim - As for Oblivion
ESO - always third. Combat cues require it.

and that's just TES. Other games didn't often allow the choice.

Posted by: Renee Oct 27 2020, 08:13 PM

I know. But I am also wondering about those who played table games... DnD, The Fantasy Trip, Call of Ctuhulu, Warhammer, and so on. Those who played these games without lead figures, are you more of a First Person gamer for videogames? Those who did play while using figures, are you more of a Third Person gamer?


I couldn't figure out how to add one, which is odd since I just added a poll to the thread I started earlier this summer.

Thing is, there are (what?) less than 20 of us posting here at Chorrol. Do we really need a poll?

Posted by: mirocu Oct 27 2020, 08:16 PM

Always fun with polls, even if only five people vote


As to tabletops, haven't played any so I have no reference there.

Posted by: Acadian Oct 27 2020, 08:53 PM

TES games are the only time I've ever had a choice. All the rpg's I played prior to that were third person only.

With the choice that TES gives, I like both generally and, from a roleplay perspective can comfortably transition from Buffy's first person perspective to the over the shoulder third person that Acadian provides. So the roleplaying aspect is a wash with either being fine. For actual game play, it boils down to practical concerns leading to the same results reported by ghastley. For Oblivion/Skyrim, preferred third but usually needed first for precision archery. First person is simply horrific in ESO but compensated by a wonderful and range adjustable third person.

Posted by: SubRosa Oct 27 2020, 10:03 PM

I played tabletop rpgs, and sometimes we used figures for combat, sometimes not. It varied a lot.

Likewise, I constantly go back and forth between 1st and 3rd person view in the games that allow it. I prefer 3rd person for just walking around, and for fighting in melee. I always go 1st person for ranged combat, since aiming is just too hard in 3rd. I will also go to 1st person when I am doing something that requires precision, like decorating my house.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Oct 28 2020, 12:37 AM

I use third for looking at my characters mostly. It’s a bit of an annoyance for me when a game lets you fully customize your character but do not include a third person camera!

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Oct 28 2020, 01:06 AM

Third person for the most part by far, but it varies by game. Obviously, this concerns games where the option is present (so no Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, etc.). But my philosophy is this: If you have a lot of control over the look of your character and you care so much about how they look, what is the point of playing first person? I get wanting to see it through your characters' eyes sometimes, but it seems kind of useless (to me) to predominantly play that way if you agonize over every detail of your character.

Morrowind: This is the one that I actually prefer playing in first person, but only because the game is ridiculously clunky to play in third person. It's a shame, because I want to look at my character but the controls and the combat make it much harder to play that way. That being said, I will still sometimes switch between the two.

Oblivion: While it can still be a bit clunky in third person, it isn't enough to make me prefer first person. Sometimes, however, combat gets far too hairy and I might switch it up then. If there are a lot of enemies but also allies fighting in a cluster, it is really easy to hit the friendly NPCs both because of the controls, the aiming, and the stupidity of the AI wanting to always jump in front of your attacks. I may also go first person if I need to pick up something and it requires some precise aiming.

Skyrim: 95%+ of the time, it's third person. Occasionally, I may go first person to pick certain things up or just to be a bit different.

Online: I go third person even more so, over 99% of the time. It's absolutely required to play in third person, especially in PvP. For the most part, I can aim for picking something up without going into first person, but every once in a while I'll need to do it.

Fallout 3 and 4: These are pretty much the same as Skyrim. NV is like this as well, but technically that is not Bethesda even if it a Bethesda engine. Still, for the purpose of this question, I think it applies.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Oct 28 2020, 01:27 AM

I would like to add that I’d rather play ESO in third person unless I’m doing something with my houses.

Posted by: haute ecole rider Oct 28 2020, 02:35 PM

I've never played tabletop RPG games - mostly I played Sorry!, Chinese Checkers and Trivial Pursuit with my family.

So I started out playing first person shooters (anyone remember Star Wars: Dark Forces?), which I found immersive, but challenging sometimes in navigating large areas because I'd lose my orientation. When I was introduced to Oblivion (my first TES game) it was also my first time playing third person. I started out in first person, but became accustomed to third person very quickly because it helped me know what was behind me. By the time I picked up Skyrim, I was playing third person most of the time, unless, like the others, I needed to aim at something for ranged combat, or place something in my house (only to have it go flying all over the place). ESO is almost all third person, except for decorating.

So sorry, Renee, I can't really help with your data collection because my lack of experience in table top RPGs makes my preferences moot.

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Oct 28 2020, 04:25 PM

Something I just thought about that might be interesting for a roleplay opportunity: When your character is starting out at something, go first-person, and then go third-person when they become more experienced (maybe even expanding the camera as you go along).

My reasoning is that when your character is trying to become accustomed to something, they only think about what's in front of them. So if you are starting out at combat or thieving or exploration or anything else, they don't have the "intuition" or ability (or whatever you want to call it) to think about the bigger picture of what is going on around them. They only know what they can see. But as they get better, you can start expanding the camera. Your character is then becoming more cerebral and cognizant of their surroundings. Now you can more easily counteract enemies in combat coming from your sides or behind you, or sense other people around corners when you try to stay out of site while thieving, or figure out paths for exploration, because third-person always gives you more to see that first-person wouldn't.

You could even give yourself the option of scaling how much you can see in third-person. With a little bit of experience, you can move the camera to just behind the character, which gives you more awareness but still not a lot. Becoming more of a veteran at something enables you to move the camera out further if you wish.

I don't know, just something that suddenly came to mind. *shrug*

Posted by: macole Oct 29 2020, 05:35 AM

Hmmm, never thought about it before that the my preference for 1st person might be related to the way my group of friends played D&D and Fantasy Trip but it is possible. Ours was primarily player/actor with no prepared physical map or character markers involved.
I've played many good 3rd-person RPGs e.g. Ultima, Planescape Torment, the Baldurs Gate 1&2, Neverwinter Nights. Those are good stories but I enjoy the personal involvement I find in the 1st-person mode.

RaderOfTheLostArk has an interesting thoughtt. Lately I have developed an odd play style, maybe not so odd. I will play a session using 1st-person view with my party of companions then I will replay the entire session in 3rd-person just for the pictures. Finally I will replay any dungeons; 1st-person solo without companions. Depending on what if any unique items collected determines which session is saved for next time.

Posted by: ghastley Oct 29 2020, 02:07 PM

Is it time to ask "Who's on first?" yet?

Posted by: Renee Oct 29 2020, 03:27 PM

Thanks for you answers, folks. These are fun to read.

I will add that I prefer Third even for ranged attacks: spells or bows. I've gotten rather good at hitting most of the time while playing Elder Scrolls, and this is without crosshairs.

For Fallout, I'm not so good, but it depends which weapon is being used. I rarely use VATS, often forget it is there!





ghastley: Who's on First? There should be a poll, ha ha.

Decorating a house in First person, very much so. Well, this applies to any of these games, but Skyrim more than usual. Object placement is sort of ridiculous in Skyrim, right?


It's okay hon. Just a silly idea I had.

Trivial Pursuit, YES!



This would be a good experiment for somebody who's never played a videogame before. Which view would this gamer choose and feel most comfortable with?



That is unusual. I knew you switched to 3rd for pics, but not replayed. Wow.

Nice to see you also played The Fantasy Trip. I've never met anyone (online or in person) else who's used that series. I have a bunch of questions now, but I'll refrain until later!

Posted by: Decrepit Oct 29 2020, 06:22 PM

My preferences haven't changed to any appreciable extent since last time this was discussed. Up until Oblivion I was first-person all the way except for screenshots. With Oblivion I gradually morphed into third-person almost exclusively. Had my short-lived Oblivion video series continued, I'd have used first-person for certain situations, mostly when within cities/towns and/or structures, as I found it made for a more interesting presentation. Skyrim is another third-person game for me. Kingdom Come Deliverance works best in first-person imo, due to its intricate, complex combat system. Not that there was any choice at the time, though I believe there might be a third-person mod now. Daggerfall is of course first-person only.

With train sim games, I switch between the two as the situation demands.

I suppose nowadays I'm more flexible about than I once was.

Posted by: Grits Oct 29 2020, 10:20 PM

Put me down for mostly third person. I use first for closed-in situations so that I don’t get motion sick. I also use it for some decorating, but I still prefer third person when the space is big enough. For me it’s a player comfort issue more than a roleplay issue. Whether I am looking at my character’s world through their eyes or over their shoulder, it’s still me with the character rather than me as the character.

From my long-ago tabletop RPG days my crew did not do much acting, but we did speak as our characters. We didn’t have figurines due to youthful cash flow problems. We would use scrap paper and whatever was lying around when we needed objects to explain a situation. Otherwise it was just talking in our regular voices and accents (often all at once).

Posted by: Infa Red May 23 2021, 08:20 AM

I am the same as you Renee, oh and btw, great thread !

I use 3rd person for the most part, until its time to really focus on something close up or shooting a bow. So I really liked the introduction to being able to *quickly* switch between 3rd and 1st person. It was a serious game changer. I can not say I like one better than the other, even though I am in 3rd person most the time, this is because the 1st person aspect is of *absolute* utmost importance when needed and is irreplaceable.

I have never heard that theory before, but how interesting. So for my circle, we actually did both, used lead figurines, and acted out vocally (best we could, pending on how blasted the majority of us were ! LOL). I can possibly see the psychology here, but I am not sure if I 100% agree. But its a definitely cool assessment.

I like other games 100% first person, due to the overall design. And others 100% 3rd person. So I am not sure there is a valid connection ? The imagination always had me in 1st person using vision via D&D, the figurines were merely to show us the representation (reenactment if you will) of the real situation going on in our minds. I was blessed to have a Dungeon Master that was so over the top good I can't even explain it. He was like a god. Seriously. Moments of utter fear, moments of tears, expressing things so well that you truly were there in the world he created. His creations were from scratch and extremely elaborate and real. Never met anyone like him EVER. Point is, he made it all 1st person for sure, the figurines were just for logistics.

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd May 23 2021, 08:54 PM

I play exclusively in third-person (except for Oblivion, which regularly forces me into 1st person against my will). I don't even purchase first person games anymore. The last one I bought was Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines in 2004.

When I roleplay, I am never my character. So I do not want to see the world through my character's eyes. My character and I form and adventuring party of two. I'm just along for the ride on their adventures. I make suggestions ("Say, why don't we explore that dungeon over there?") and my character automatically rejects them ("No, I want to go to the nearest town to sell off my loot before I become over-encumbered.")

I have never played a tabletop game. My introduction to roleplaying was the old Infinity Engine games (Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, ect) and those were all third-person games. So I guess I learned early to think of roleplaying as something that happened in third-person.

Posted by: Lena_Wolf May 23 2021, 09:35 PM

I'm with Pseron - 3rd person only, except where 1st person is required (ever tried to get a Welkynd stone off a high perch with telekinesis in 3rd person? Don't). I am not actually Lena Wolf (surprise!), and she does not feature in every game. So it's me and my character - I'm a voice in her or his head, and like Dagail they need their sire's amulet, but alas - it's gone. Ouch.

Oh, and I never played any of those kinds of board games that you mentioned, but back in school we used to role play favourite books - like a real time theatre. Much more fun than homework.

Posted by: ikonomov May 24 2021, 05:35 AM

I've also never played tabletop DnD and my intro to roleplaying was also Baldur's Gate 2, Shadows of Amn. I still play BG saga, in fact contemplating doing another custom party playthrough. I've played around 15 full playthroughs of the whole saga. LOL You've ever played BG1, or just Shadows of Amn?

Another game I've played to death is Diablo 1, I've played it way longer than I should have and way after it was released. XD I've played other RPGs as well, although not as much. I've always pictured myself as the character I'm playing, even in 3rd person. All of them are in 3rd person, but interesting enough I've always preferred Skyrim in 1st person. When I first started playing it I used to switch between them, but since I use bow for sneak shots a lot I think that has been one of the main driving factors to adopt playing Skyrim in 1st person exclusively. After a while it really grew on me and I've come to really appreciate the immersion as being the person in the game. I think at this point it has become my favorite format, an RPG in 1st person in a fantasy setting like Skyrim.

Posted by: Renee May 24 2021, 01:19 PM

Nobody so far subscribes to my silly theory in post 1. Oh well.

Thanks for your input everyone, these are fun to read. There should be a poll.

Posted by: mirocu May 24 2021, 03:40 PM

*Hrrm*


My case, I rest

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd May 24 2021, 04:28 PM

I played both. I prefer Shadows of Amn though. Actually, the D&D game I have played the most is the original Neverwinter Nights ,from 2002. I played the heck out of that game.


The reason I mentioned those games is because I imagine they are similar experiences to tabletop gaming, in terms of point-of-view. In both cases we are watching events from above, in third-person. Watching my party move around in those old Bioware games must have been similar to you watching real-life players move their figurines around on a tabletop.

Posted by: ikonomov May 24 2021, 05:47 PM

Yep, BG2:SoA has obvious improvements to BG1. I've played a ton of the 1st Neverwinter Nights as well Once all the DLCs came out it really became a nice game. I kind of wish I played it after all major DLC came out as the initial release really felt way short of the expectations we had at the time being named as a "successor" to BG2 by Bioware.

Posted by: Adella May 24 2021, 06:24 PM

Hello everyone😁,
Ah wonderful....My first posty.
For me it simply has to be third person. I admit there are brief moments we switch to first...seconds really...to pick up something tricky or amongst clutter, but only if we really must.

Why MUST it be third. Well, in a sense...I AM the character and looking out through my screen or ‘likeness’ eyes simply reverts to my human other half being in the game instead of me. This diminishes our bond. It is like....The ventriloquist wants to see the dummy...not be in it hmmm.

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd May 24 2021, 06:31 PM

Welcome, Adella!!

Posted by: Adella May 24 2021, 07:23 PM

Thank you for the welcome sweetie...Oh gosh, so many places to be, so little time <Chuckles>. I look forward to some story writing here...I hope they don’t mind oodles of blood 😈.

Glad you still have your film noir avatar piccy...👍

Talking of which I must get this avatar pic thingy to work...
Later
Adella😁

Posted by: macole May 24 2021, 08:24 PM

Depends on the color, of course.

Posted by: Renee May 24 2021, 10:48 PM

Welcome here, Adella, glad you made it over.

I want to give Adella a Fishy Stick but I ran out today.

Posted by: Adella May 24 2021, 11:28 PM

Thank you Renee, and more especially for sponsoring my entry too.😁

Um’ I LOVE Fishy Sticks....please as soon as you procure more, keep me in mind....Yum!

A.🤗

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk May 25 2021, 02:37 AM

Pseron! You made it to Chorrol! Welcome! (EDIT: You have had an account here for a long time already? Huh, I don't remember ever seeing that. Don't remember any of your posts. Ah, well, it's kind of like you are new if you haven't been active in a long time, right? Welcome anyway!)

Since you bring up Oblivion specifically: I have been replaying Oblivion with mods and having a grand ol' time. But for the love of Talos, the third-person camera is awful, especially in combat. I don't remember being so bad. I remembered not liking Morrowind's third-person camera, but while I was replaying that a month or so ago, it was way better than I remembered. How that camera angle could regress so badly from Morrowind to Oblivion is beyond me. I'll sometimes change it in Oblivion when I am not in a fight, but it's disappointing to have to switch back.

That being said, I enjoy third-person greatly more when the camera works well. While I don't obsess over every detail of the character like some other players here, I still spent the time to make my character. I want to actually see them in action. It gets me more into the play. Not the first person greatly hinders the enjoyment, but I still prefer third person by far.




Welcome aboard! There is also an official Introduce Yourself thread in the General Discussion subforum if you want to drop a message there. Oops, looks like you posted one there already.

Posted by: ikonomov May 25 2021, 03:18 AM

Heya I uploaded mine on imgur, you have to resize it to 90x90 pixels first.

Posted by: Infa Red May 25 2021, 04:35 AM

Well I liked the theory though. It is a really good read. And its also so logical that I want to believe it. Its just due to the result testing we've shared with our own life experiences, its seems to not be 100% true. Not saying I am not subscribing to it. I am subscribed to the thread at least !! Give me some credit there. HAHA



I think I ate the last one. Being such a newb.



Actually you can do the resizing as you type in the URL in the Avatar setting place here. Right below the URL box there is 2 little boxes, if the image you are linking is more than 90x90, then just type in 90 in both them boxes. No need to do it first.

Posted by: Renee May 25 2021, 07:10 PM

Yikes, we're supposed to eat those things?

Kidding. And Adella, I have a Fishy Stick for you now. http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130514235332/elderscrolls/images/4/4b/Fishy_stick.png -- Good thing I work in a supermarket.

@PseronWyrd (oopes... we're not a Bethsoft anymore) yes, Baldur's Gate is a good comparison to table-gaming, that is true. Gosh, if I had known about BG in the '90s I might have begun gaming as an adult earlier.

Posted by: Infa Red May 25 2021, 07:53 PM

Well, yes, you can optionally cook them first. As they are given out cold. If cold fish is your thing, then cool. You optionally can eat them with Fishy Sauce too.. just be careful to not get the sauce all over your scroll pages or you're screwed.

And finally, you can even *do* the fishy stick if you choose... (no not that, get your mind out the gutter !!! my god).... Its a dance. And its a delicate state of mind !

Posted by: Adella May 25 2021, 08:24 PM

Thanks Renee.....Yum! We call them fish fingers here. I am glad the ages old forum tradition continues on👍

Ikon...Nope...No luck with the avatar thing. I copied a link from a pic in my ‘One Drive’ pasted it into the box and added 90 and 90 in the boxes below. Still getting the ‘something went wrong’ message idkw. It hates me 😢

Posted by: Infa Red May 25 2021, 08:35 PM

Dang, this sucks

Just for kicks and giggles, try this. Try to host the avatar image(s) you want to link to here on another place. Start a free account at say Imgur that free image hosting site. (or something of the likes) and then upload your desired images there, get the "direct links" and then try that.

Its possible your One Drive thing is just not linking compatible with here. Also make sure to use the "Direct Link" option link. Not any of the others.

I only suggest Imgur, due to the fact that's what I did and it works. and its free.

Posted by: Lena_Wolf May 25 2021, 08:41 PM

I had the same problem - I even asked that same question in its own thread a few days ago... Imgur.com worked, but I very much object to entering my phone number with them.

Posted by: Infa Red May 25 2021, 08:45 PM

Yea I agree. Welcome to the new ages I guess. People love to sell their freedom/privacy and rights for a *false* sense of security. Thats the liberal motto ! lol

That said, its just for verification purposes. After the one time, they never ask for it again (that I have experienced anyway). Its kind of the new thing now, duo authentication. Phone is easiest and quickest.

Posted by: ikonomov May 25 2021, 09:28 PM

It might be that OneDrive doesn't work because it's not giving you a direct link of the image file. The link has to end with .jpg, .gif or .png. With Imgur you won't have that problem, so I'd suggest to try that. It's also a good place to use for sharing images in general. I don't remember having to provide a phone number when I created my Imgur account, but it looks like now they do. However, the website looks very secure and reliable, I don't think you have something to worry about.

Posted by: Adella May 25 2021, 09:36 PM

Well my avatar is a png. I tried shrinking the file to 18kb still no go and tried linking to it on iCloud still no go.

The help files say an admin has to allow the image to be linked by url or copy/paste the image itself. Maybe it is not authorised?

I will go to imgur if I really must....but having to have another functioning app site just for a single photo hosting seems excessive.

But thank you for trying to help

Posted by: Lena_Wolf May 25 2021, 09:45 PM

I found that it was the length of the URL string that was the problem. I eventually managed to get it done via my blog site, so I deleted my new imgur account which indeed I created for that one picture. Most platforms have way too long URLs. My avatar is a JPG.

Posted by: Adella May 25 2021, 10:02 PM

The error msg keeps saying “not a valid file extension”
But it is an http// url link to imgur and a blurred image of just 5kb
The actual photo is a png which should be ok

So Idk what's the issue.
iPad says ‘Not secure’ on this site....maybe it won’t link cos of some Apple block?

Posted by: Infa Red May 25 2021, 10:10 PM

Dang, this is just getting deeper ! haha

Sorry you are going through this.

Ok, so I am on a Mac/Apple too. And with a link, as you pointed out, none of this should matter.

My image was also coming out burry. I decided to not downsize it myself, and just upload the good full size res image to Imgur. Then type the 90/90 thing in the boxes under the URL here when linking. This gives you the best quality image.

The only reason it might not be working is you are copying the wrong link ? Look for "Direct Link" and make triple sure you also remove any preexisting text in the URL box here before pasting.

And if that doesn't work, then try reformatting the image to .jpg then upload that to Imgur and try again. It should not matter, I agree but I am just trying to go over all troubleshooting.

Posted by: Adella May 26 2021, 04:20 AM

Yay!
At last...phew
Avatar of me now shows up

Why/how?
It was dreadfully simple....I had to manually add “.png” on the end of the url...even though the img was a png anyway!
Oh and delete the given http:// since the linked url has this bit anyway....as you said Infa👍

Well, I must extend grateful thanks to those who came to my aid...Infa, Lena and Ikon🤗

Posted by: Infa Red May 26 2021, 04:39 AM

Glad to see its working. And it looks so good too ! Sharp and clear !
Awesome work !

Of course glad to help always.

Posted by: Renee May 27 2021, 02:14 AM

Your avatar pictures are all fantastic.

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd May 27 2021, 03:17 AM

I think Adella's avatar is particularly striking. I tell you, there are few things more mysterious and alluring than a woman wearing a stylish hat. Women should wear hats more often, I think.

And of course a woman with fangs is all the more irresistible!

Posted by: Adella May 27 2021, 02:20 PM

Pseron...You old schmooser, flattery will get you everywhere <giggles>

Hat’s and fangs....check

I will see what I can do sweetie..... and on topic, a wonderful reason for 3rd person pov hmmm

Adella

Posted by: Renee May 27 2021, 05:16 PM

Of course.

So Pseron, how does it feel being able to post at a web forum at which you don't have to worry about locking thread after thread? Or perform other moderator duties?

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd May 28 2021, 04:55 PM

I have to say, it's a relief to to post as myself, not as a representative of Bethesda Softworks LLC. I was reprimanded a few times early on in my moderating career for a few of the things I posted. After 15 years of posting on Beth's forums as "just some guy on the internet" it was a difficult transition to remember that I was now one of the public faces of an organization. But eventually it became second nature to consider everything I wrote very carefully to ensure that Bethesda would not object. hen I post here I feel like an athlete who has taken off his training weights and can now run unimpeded.

I also have to say that is a great relief not to receive PMs, posts, and even whole threads attacking me. Some people go ballistic when you move a thread, or edit a post or thread. They mistakenly believe that they "own" that content and that you have no business tampering with it. I have been called just about every name in the book over these past five years. I have been called a fascist, a clown, an idiot. I have been called a drone, a shill, a tool of corporate power. I have had my ancestry, my intelligence and my sexual orientation repeatedly called into question. So far, that has not happened either here or at AFK Mods, thank the gods.

Posted by: ghastley May 28 2021, 05:33 PM

I think we need to give you some moderating to do, so you can come down slowly, and not in one precipitous drop.

And any time you want abuse, you have only to ask, politely, of course. .

Posted by: Lena_Wolf May 28 2021, 05:38 PM

I can thoroughly recommend Molag Bal - he's excellent at abuse.

Posted by: ghastley May 28 2021, 05:59 PM

I'm not going to start an argument.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqn9

Posted by: Infa Red May 28 2021, 08:39 PM

I am real surprised people attacked you @Pseron Wyrd. As I felt you were the best perfectly lenient and tastefully strict moderator I ever seen !

If you guys can't tell, I am kinda of a loose cannon, speak my mind, hate the way the new age trend of politically correct, feelings hurt, overly sensitive crowds direction is going. I'm too old school for that, AND I see the damaging pendulum swing agenda behind it, so I won't buy into it. That said I can indeed accidentally say some stuff that would be fine in the 90's (Al Bundy style) but might be considered offensive to these wimps these days. And yes therefore I have had my share of yelling at mods over the years -- BUT I say all this cause of this -

The story goes as such - I remember I mentioned how funny it was that the Summerset Isle continent kinda looked like a ran over cat. haha, cause it does ! Then after posting, I realized what year it is and there are lots of overly zealous cat lovers out there (I love cats myself, I'm just logical about it is all) and I was worried I might be flagged as some cat racist, hater, bigot or some other overused popular word.

BUT - good old Pseron Wyrd came in and laughed and added to it ! Something about a steam roller or something. And that's when I knew... this dude is cool af ! And all the time, he moderated perfectly. Things had to get out of hand for him to do something. He was tasteful about moderation. Not like them nuts that LOOK for something to be against the rules and somehow bend everything edgy to be too close to breaking the rules, etc.. He just did what should be done, and left alone things that were human and understood jokes and humor.

Anyway - I tip my hat to the great moderator Pseron Wyrd ! Who will go down in the hall of fame of moderators !

Posted by: Adella May 28 2021, 10:08 PM

Oh I absolutely must support every word Infa wrote about Pseron Wyrd above....I could not have worded it better myself.

I think, because Pseron was a regular member and player, once lifted into the position of Bethesda moderator he never forgot what it felt like to be a rank and file member, his attitude and responses were grounded in our reality. Some of the other moderators needed shooting, little jumped up dictators who seemed to relish wielding power over regular members, safe in the knowledge they could never be brought to account or made to answer for some of their more egregious decisions. As for the Bethesda Staff, forum supervisors - What a waste of space! They did not appear to rein in any excessive moderator action and you could not hope to get a personal answer. Oh I have a list of names carved into my memory.

I can only speak from my own experience. I had (still have) a form of rule based Skyrim Challenges which a few folk tried and many spectated. The original post, which started back in Apr 2017, garnered over half a million views and was a lot of ongoing work, vids, etc. Then along comes that hateful Sonderer mod woman, and says it looks like a char story to her....so she moved it into the fan fic backwater where it would be seen by relatively few. In tabloid terms that’s like going from from front page fame to somewhere near the back!
But get this....When I queried her because it was more like a competition and nothing like a char story....She admitted this: My thread was so popular views wise, that she decided putting it in the fan fic section would encourage more view traffic there. Well, all that happened of course, was new viewers to the Skyrim part never saw my thread and it waned. I have to tell you, I hated that cowbag so badly it oozed from my pores,

Thankfully, later when she was forgotten......Pseron, who must have silently noted all this....Suddenly came in and reinstated my thread’s front page status. Idk if he had to argue my case...or as I suspect, just did it. But which ever....Pseron countermanded the evil Sonderer and earned my immediate respect. Pseron..

I might add she was not the only bad egg either. We all remember when sadly long time member and good guy ‘Hemlock Kowl’ passed away. The mods declared the memorial thread we made as ‘off topic’ and deleted it...the heartless morons. Then after a hue and cry, they decided it made them look a bit too bad! They did not want the disrepute accruing against Bethesda. So it was reinstated..But locked to prevent further addition...knowing it would quickly drop down the page into obscurity.

There were countless other poor decisions, not to mention the favoritisms..oh yes! One or two obnoxious people relished taking the ‘police informant’ role, reporting arguments they spotted in posts, that were none of their damn business...this ‘help’ earned them some leniency from the mods. So, if say this person was now rude and dismissive to you in forum and you countered politely but firmly by right of reply. The mods deleted your posts, but left the obnoxious post made against you in place...Thanks mods! Where’s my Nuke button?

Anyway....I did not intend to let all that out, and certainly not here...but non-Bethnet denizens might appreciate some of the poo we had to put up with just to be there huh! Now I have stamped so hard on my soapbox, my heel has gone through it I shall now sink quietly back into the undergrowth

Adella

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk May 28 2021, 10:54 PM

Too bad you're not moderating anymore. You could be steering this thread back to the topic it is supposed to be on.

It's astoundingly pathetic how incredibly sensitive capital-G gamers are. I don't know how they can have any social interactions with the way they behave on forums, and it is funny how often their insults that are hurled at you are perfect descriptions of them. It is simultaneously hilarious and infuriating. These are the kinds of people that gamers as a whole get painted as by ignorant people outside of the hobby. They should be ashamed of their behavior, but "shame" or "responsibility" or "self-awareness" are in their vocabulary.




Lol, you should never be surprised. This is the Internet, and gamers on the Internet in particular. People who attack others for anything and everything. These are the same kinds of people who truly believe they are a superior person because of their gaming preferences, people whose whole identities are tied up in video games to the point that they actually feel threatened even by people who are only expressing different tastes instead of being elitists on the Internet themselves (though there are certainly elitists among them). They're almost as bad--sometimes even WORSE--than armchair political scientists babbling on social media and perpetuating their echo chamber's point of view.

Posted by: Adella May 28 2021, 11:02 PM

Raider:

Qt. “Too bad you're not moderating anymore. You could be steering this thread back to the topic it is supposed to be on.” UQ

Yes soz, my bad. I am afraid I do get rather carried away at times hmmm!

So, on point then. When in first pov do players adopt the idea that they are in the game personally, or do they still think of it being the character they created.

And conversely... in 3rd pov....do they still somehow think of the on-screen char as them....or definitely viewing a discrete entity as one might view their domestic pet running around?

A.

Posted by: macole May 29 2021, 01:34 AM

I came alive the moment I opened my eyes in the Privateer's Hold.

3rd person is only for consumer pictures.

Posted by: Infa Red May 29 2021, 03:52 AM

Ok, so to answer this (btw great question), and recap... As I wrote previously I am a "both type" of person. I am mainly in 3rd person prob 90% of the time. And 1st person about 10% of the time. I enjoy 3rd person as I gain a better perspective of my surroundings, that I feel is actually more accurate to my real peripheral vision. So I do not feel guilty, I like 3rd person.

I use 1st person when I am combing over tables, looking for something on the ground and shooting a bow. For these things I find it actually absolutely mandatory. As again, its viewpoint in them aspects looks more real to me similar to my own eye focus. And for shooting a bow, that's a no brainer, as you need to be looking at it from that angle as you really would be if shooting a bow. So I feel the use of both is not only extremely important but also realistic.

Now, your question is great because, I also happen to be one of those immersion types that take it serious and them role play types that play me IS the character. The character IS I. To separate me from my character I am playing is not as much fun. So I am one of those types, which THEN maybe sounds weird because what are those types doing liking 3rd person ?? Right ?

Well let me explain. I am a very spiritual person (long story tell you another time, but I have been through a few near death experiences. Prob more than most, why? IDK. I actually had my face/head cut from bottom of chin to back of head, 3 times, 220 stitches, 12 staples, not fun.. Another time I was attacked by bears in Yosemite, etc.. list goes on) - Anyway, during the heat of the moment EVERY TIME, I actually leave my body and am watching myself.. When I was getting cut by this guy he had me pinned down, blood everywhere, and on the 2nd cut I began watching the whole thing from the ceiling ! I seen him cutting me and seen myself squirming, etc... I was like, "god, is this really how I go out ? I feel too young" - the BOOM the guy cut a 3rd time, then got up off me and left (I rushed to hospital, etc.. another story) - ANYWAY the point is, is I feel when I am in 3rd person, its still very realistic to literally BE that character I am looking at. Its just like a permanent outer body experience and that's realistic to me.

No less realistic than the fact you push a stick or press a key to run instead of actually moving your legs ! LOL Right ?? So yes I own that, I like it and it still makes sense to me personally. Honestly the controller/key makes sense to me too, as I look at the controller/keyboard as a symbiotic relationship between the character(me) and the controller, so it all works logically imo.

Posted by: Renee May 31 2021, 02:31 PM

I'm sure all those moderators (Greenwarden, Pluto, Rohugh, etc.) got their share of abuse. I cannot even imagine.

On topic: I was playing some Skyrim yesterday and just for variety's sake switched to First Person. Never again! It's too disorienting for me. But I also understand that it puts the Player IN the game, sort of.



That is really my job. Chorrol's pretty laid back, and if we start a thread, we can pretty much allow it to go off-topic. If mirocu had started this thread for instance, you can bet we'd all be getting pink slips by now!

But we're all adults here. I want our new ones to feel comfortable posting here at Chorrol, getting acclimated with our offhand approach, enjoying themselves.

Posted by: Adella Jun 15 2021, 05:07 PM

First Person:
You are in the game and see through the characters eyes.

Second Person:
You see your character as if you are inside another one and the game refers to you as ‘you’ whilst acting upon the character in front of you.

Third Person:
You see your character from outside as an independent entity…but you still control it.

Fourth Person:
Your character runs off out of your field of view and has a good time somewhere else in the game