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Chorrol.com _ Fallout Games Discussion _ Is the NCR or Mr. House the "best" option?

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Nov 10 2018, 02:13 AM

I am at a crossroads in my Fallout: New Vegas playthrough. My plan was to run with the NCR to the end and burn [censored] Caesar's Legion to the ground. I also am not interested in taking over New Vegas for myself, although I thought about it.

So now I am at the part where Colonel Moore of the NCR tells me to take Mr. House out of the picture. I am not a fan of House, but I wasn't expecting a point where I would actually have to directly turn on him. I was a bit uncomfortable with the proposition, but then when I actually came to his shriveled body that is barely being kept alive, I really became unsure if what I was doing what was right. I disabled him first, but then he pleaded for death that I could not give to him then. I then reloaded and outright killed him, which is when I received that Pip-Boy note about how great he was and that he died (how that news got out that fast is beyond me). Both resulted in negative karma.

As I've played through the game, I've grown more uncomfortable with the NCR. House doesn't either, but it is a tough choice to decide whether the Mojave is better off the NCR or House at the helm. It seems that there is no way to get them to cooperate.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't mind some moral ambiguity. In fact, I think it has greatly enhanced Bethesda games when it has been employed (yes, I know FNV is Obsidian). But it is a bit frustrating that it is at a crucial point in the game and it doesn't really feel right going either way.

Some of my thoughts on the matter, and then I want to hear from you all.

Mr. House Pros:
-Had incredible foresight at predicting the Great War and was able to save his city from total annihilation (although that seems like a rather convenient plot point, but whatever)
-Has an ambitious vision for the future
-For the most part, has kept visitors safe and has mostly kept the city out of the hostilities between the NCR and Legion

Mr. House Cons:
-Incredibly smug and condescending, which partly contributes to me questioning his character
-A dictator is a dictator, even if he is "benevolent"; whatever his vision is, he seems to not stop at anything to get his way and must be in control of it all
-While New Vegas itself is safe, he has done nothing to rein in Freeside
-Has implemented some unfair policies in The Strip; for example, filling most of Vault 21 in with concrete, the home of Sarah Weintraub

NCR Pros:
-Have what seems to be the most legitimate government left in the United States, and overall tries to reasonably implement law and order
-They're not the Legion
-Some are willing to go the diplomatic route like Crocker
-Seem to have a good vision for the future of the Mojave, for the most part

NCR Cons:
-Have forced a lot of independent areas to be absorbed under their rule, whether they wanted to be or not
-It may not seem this way on the surface, but it is concerning how divided they are and how these divisions often have goals at odds with each other
-Some, such as Colonel Moore, are way too approving of political killings; the Great Khans are certainly not the best people and I thought about offing them before, but the particular route Moore wanted me to go about seemed...genocidal (fortunately I was able to get them to leave the Mojave peacefully and not ally with the Legion); I am also trying to keep the Brotherhood of Steel from being destroyed because they have not done anything to me and Veronica is my companion

Of course, what I mean by "best" is who is more so the "good" faction.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head. So now I ask you: Do you think Mr. House or the NCR are the best (or at least better) choice to rule the Mojave?

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 10 2018, 02:39 AM

Don't forget that after the war Mr. House laid low for a long time. I am not sure if it was just decades or over a century. When he came back he released his army of robots onto the Strip and murdered everyone living there. Then he created the 3 families and put them in charge of their casinos (and essentially to handle all the day to day operations of running New Vegas). So he's a stone-cold killer.

Also, I am not sure that House actually did anything to save Vegas from being nuked. He did not even have his platinum chip then to upgrade his robots. I do not recall ever finding anything in the game that would stop an ICBM, or make it go off course, or detonate prematurely. But I could be wrong on that.

So he is basically a ruthless businessman who will kill anyone who gets in his way, even accidentally.

OTOH, the NCR is no picnic either. They only seem to be interested in the water from Lake Meade, the power from the Dam, and farms outside of New Vegas. Other than that they seem pretty indifferent to the fate of Nevadans. Plus their invasion of Nevada prompted a wave of colonists, who are causing friction with the natives in Freeside.

I would not characterize the NCR as being evil. But they are an outside, essentially Imperial force, with their own agenda. I think someone in Goodsprings - maybe Trudy - summed them up by saying that if you have something the NCR wants, they will come in and bring you freedom and democracy, whether you like it or not.

But to finally answer your question, I think the 'best' option is yourself. You can kill House, kill Caesar and Lanius, force the NCR out, then take it all for yourself. That is what I did on my last couple times. Hecate was nice enough to just let the NCR leave. Loviatar had her robots throw the NCR general off Hoover Dam to underscore the point that she was the new Queen of the Mojave (she would have eaten him, but the game never gave me the option).

Posted by: Uleni Athram Nov 10 2018, 02:55 AM

Agreed with the Sage Rose. If you’re unsure, just be the change you want to see lol

Honestly, the Big Three bore me. Caesar’s Legion is what it is, the NCR is aping the Pre-War governments that led the Fallout world to where it is and House is shady as all hell. Personally I find House to have the most long-term potential out of all them, particularly if you factor in what he’d be able to do with the technologies of the Big MT. Schheeeeeeeeeeeiiissseee, he’d probably make the Courier an immortal cyborg! (Assuming they aren’t one already, with the choices you can make; haven’t played F:NV for like, years now and my memory is foggy)

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 10 2018, 03:14 AM

Lol, Khajiit just wanted to forget the Mojave and live in Zion! Place is frickin’ beautiful!

This one thinks that part of the point is that all of the decisions suck.

Posted by: Lopov Nov 10 2018, 01:48 PM

Personally I don't think that any option is better than the other one, but I let my characters decide, so they make a decision based on their personal beliefs and morale.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 10 2018, 03:15 PM

My first character to do the main quest in New Vegas was http://chorrol.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5990&view=findpost&p=255963. Her background was that she was an NCR Ranger, purposely sent in to assassinate House, Caesar, and Lanius. She was undercover as a Mojave Express Courier. So I went into it knowing that she was going to put the NCR in control of Nevada. It was a very good game, and I enjoyed playing her a lot. But while she did go through with bringing the NCR victory, by the end she was so disillusioned by the things she had done that she quit the Rangers and walked off into the sunset (well sunrise, as she went east).

So I agree with Lopov, in that you should do what is right for the character. Play different kinds of characters, and try different endings with them. So far I have only done the Independent route twice, and NCR once.

The House ending is not appealing to me because I don't see any reason to let him live. You can kill him and take it all and follow essentially the same path. The game does not give you any reason to feel loyalty to House, or even affection. So you may as well whack him.

Being female, the Legion ending never appealed to me.

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Nov 21 2018, 04:57 PM

Well, now my decision is even harder lol. I'm just not sure what fits my character. She has been helping the NCR, but she has also had mixed feelings about them. I'm not sure how much my personal feelings (if this were a real situation) and my character's differs or compares. So I have put the decision off for now but I am going to have to do it soon. Awfully annoyed at those random Legionary bullet-sponges that pop up.

At the very least, I am pretty sure I don't want to help Mr. House. So now I am deciding between the NCR and independence.

QUOTE(SubRosa @ Nov 9 2018, 08:39 PM) *

Don't forget that after the war Mr. House laid low for a long time. I am not sure if it was just decades or over a century. When he came back he released his army of robots onto the Strip and murdered everyone living there. Then he created the 3 families and put them in charge of their casinos (and essentially to handle all the day to day operations of running New Vegas). So he's a stone-cold killer.

Also, I am not sure that House actually did anything to save Vegas from being nuked. He did not even have his platinum chip then to upgrade his robots. I do not recall ever finding anything in the game that would stop an ICBM, or make it go off course, or detonate prematurely. But I could be wrong on that.

So he is basically a ruthless businessman who will kill anyone who gets in his way, even accidentally.

OTOH, the NCR is no picnic either. They only seem to be interested in the water from Lake Meade, the power from the Dam, and farms outside of New Vegas. Other than that they seem pretty indifferent to the fate of Nevadans. Plus their invasion of Nevada prompted a wave of colonists, who are causing friction with the natives in Freeside.

I would not characterize the NCR as being evil. But they are an outside, essentially Imperial force, with their own agenda. I think someone in Goodsprings - maybe Trudy - summed them up by saying that if you have something the NCR wants, they will come in and bring you freedom and democracy, whether you like it or not.

But to finally answer your question, I think the 'best' option is yourself. You can kill House, kill Caesar and Lanius, force the NCR out, then take it all for yourself. That is what I did on my last couple times. Hecate was nice enough to just let the NCR leave. Loviatar had her robots throw the NCR general off Hoover Dam to underscore the point that she was the new Queen of the Mojave (she would have eaten him, but the game never gave me the option).


Hmm, I don't remember the part about Mr. House murdering people. But there was something about how he saved Vegas from nukes, although I don't remember exactly what the story was. Yeah, I'm definitely not helping Mr. House.

Are you able to help the NCR at the Battle of Hoover Dam and then kick them out of the Mojave? Because I think I might do it that way. But the most important priority is to eradicate the Legion.


QUOTE(Uleni Athram @ Nov 9 2018, 08:55 PM) *

Agreed with the Sage Rose. If you€™re unsure, just be the change you want to see lol

Honestly, the Big Three bore me. Caesar€™s Legion is what it is, the NCR is aping the Pre-War governments that led the Fallout world to where it is and House is shady as all hell. Personally I find House to have the most long-term potential out of all them, particularly if you factor in what he€™d be able to do with the technologies of the Big MT. Schheeeeeeeeeeeiiissseee, he€™d probably make the Courier an immortal cyborg! (Assuming they aren€™t one already, with the choices you can make; haven€™t played F:NV for like, years now and my memory is foggy)


I may just have to be that change lol.


QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Nov 9 2018, 09:14 PM) *

Lol, Khajiit just wanted to forget the Mojave and live in Zion! Place is frickin€™ beautiful!

This one thinks that part of the point is that all of the decisions suck.


Oh, for sure, Obsidian made these choices tough deliberately. And I totally respect and even like ambiguity (part of why I enjoy The Elder Scrolls and the Bethesda-made Fallouts so much). I just don't personally want the choices to be too hard lol.


QUOTE(Lopov @ Nov 10 2018, 07:48 AM) *

Personally I don't think that any option is better than the other one, but I let my characters decide, so they make a decision based on their personal beliefs and morale.


I can't help but inject some of my own opinion into it, but I am trying to make it mostly based on what my character feels. I am not sure what would make most sense for her character yet, but I am starting to lean toward the independent route.


QUOTE(SubRosa @ Nov 10 2018, 09:15 AM) *

My first character to do the main quest in New Vegas was http://chorrol.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5990&view=findpost&p=255963. Her background was that she was an NCR Ranger, purposely sent in to assassinate House, Caesar, and Lanius. She was undercover as a Mojave Express Courier. So I went into it knowing that she was going to put the NCR in control of Nevada. It was a very good game, and I enjoyed playing her a lot. But while she did go through with bringing the NCR victory, by the end she was so disillusioned by the things she had done that she quit the Rangers and walked off into the sunset (well sunrise, as she went east).

So I agree with Lopov, in that you should do what is right for the character. Play different kinds of characters, and try different endings with them. So far I have only done the Independent route twice, and NCR once.

The House ending is not appealing to me because I don't see any reason to let him live. You can kill him and take it all and follow essentially the same path. The game does not give you any reason to feel loyalty to House, or even affection. So you may as well whack him.

Being female, the Legion ending never appealed to me.


I'm male but my character is female. And I don't appreciate the Legion's attitude towards them (or their attitudes on...virtually everything, really). So the Legion was never on the table for me. Made it extra satisfying to snipe the [censored] out of all the Legionaries at Cottonwood Cove yesterday--although I had to confront a couple of them head on like Aurelius--and have Astor make note of how a female wiped out those misogynist Legion clowns.

Regarding House, I really hate the ends-justify-the-means mentality (both in real life and for my character), and because of all the good he has done in the past he thinks he can do whatever he wants. Yeah, I'm definitely going to whack House as soon as I decide whether my character should take the NCR or independent endings.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 21 2018, 09:50 PM

If you do the NCR, House, or Independent route it goes the same almost the entire way. You fight alongside the NCR at Hoover Dam, defeat the Legion, and kill Lanius. At that point the 3 lines diverge, but only slightly. If you went the NCR route the general thanks you for a job well done and they take over Nevada. If you go the House or Independent route at that point you tell the NCR general to take his troops and get out of Nevada, or else. You even have the option of throwing him off the dam to prove that you are in charge (at that point you have your own army to back you up). Then either you or House is the ruler of Nevada.

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