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> Your Writing Process, And/Or Problems with Same
TheCheshireKhajiit
post Dec 9 2020, 02:18 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Dec 8 2020, 06:02 PM) *

At this point she will have stopped wearing the cape entirely. Most of the time she will have her wings folded up on her back when she is in superhero mode.

Something like a trenchcoat or jacket sounds a little too mundane. I realize that it is a real tight-rope I am trying to walk here. On one hand I don't want to be too comcic-booky with sprayed on spandex outfits. OTOH I don't want to be ordinary either. I am looking for the kinds of things you see in superhero movies. They stopped trying the old tights thing a long time ago because while it looks good on a page, it looks silly in real life. Normally in films you see people wearing some kind of high-tech kevlar or other sort of armor instead now. I am thinking of the X-Men movies in particular. Even Deadpool's outfit in the films looks like it is made of some sort of woven fiber armor like kevlar.

It is funny, because some of the searches I did for ideas led me to a Skyrim mod that I already have.

So I am now leaning more and more towards the idea of a Super Mr. Blackwell, who designs costumes for heroes and villains both. Someone like Michael Caine from Miss Congeniality. He probably lives on some sovereign island sate like Sea Land, so he cannot be prosecuted by any government. But someplace warm, like the Caribbean or Azores. Or maybe just the RL Cayman Islands. Everyone launders their money there already.

I am thinking Mr. Blackwell might provide a whole gamut of outfits. From just an unarmored suit done up in your chosen colors and insignias, to full on armor. Everything short of actual powered armor. His basic suit might be some kind of metatech fiber that is not armored. But stain and spill resistant, waterproof, self-repairing, and most importantly, machine washable. So a super like Jan who has invulnerability can have something to wear, without it being ruined in their first battle. I the later chapters, Jan tends to come home with holes in her outfit.

Eh, yeah I’m probably a bad person to be putting his two cents in on this. I’m not really a fan of superhero stuff. Except maybe Batman, but I don’t really consider him a “super” hero, and his suit is basically armor which you’ve already said you want to get away from. Now maybe a Michelle Pfifer Catwoman style outfit... biggrin.gif

Ooo yeah! With maybe a bird motif instead of the cat!

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Dec 9 2020, 02:20 AM


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RaderOfTheLostArk
post Dec 9 2020, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Dec 8 2020, 07:02 PM) *

At this point she will have stopped wearing the cape entirely. Most of the time she will have her wings folded up on her back when she is in superhero mode.

Something like a trenchcoat or jacket sounds a little too mundane. I realize that it is a real tight-rope I am trying to walk here. On one hand I don't want to be too comcic-booky with sprayed on spandex outfits. OTOH I don't want to be ordinary either. I am looking for the kinds of things you see in superhero movies. They stopped trying the old tights thing a long time ago because while it looks good on a page, it looks silly in real life. Normally in films you see people wearing some kind of high-tech kevlar or other sort of armor instead now. I am thinking of the X-Men movies in particular. Even Deadpool's outfit in the films looks like it is made of some sort of woven fiber armor like kevlar.

It is funny, because some of the searches I did for ideas led me to a Skyrim mod that I already have.

So I am now leaning more and more towards the idea of a Super Mr. Blackwell, who designs costumes for heroes and villains both. Someone like Michael Caine from Miss Congeniality. He probably lives on some sovereign island sate like Sea Land, so he cannot be prosecuted by any government. But someplace warm, like the Caribbean or Azores. Or maybe just the RL Cayman Islands. Everyone launders their money there already.

I am thinking Mr. Blackwell might provide a whole gamut of outfits. From just an unarmored suit done up in your chosen colors and insignias, to full on armor. Everything short of actual powered armor. His basic suit might be some kind of metatech fiber that is not armored. But stain and spill resistant, waterproof, self-repairing, and most importantly, machine washable. So a super like Jan who has invulnerability can have something to wear, without it being ruined in their first battle. I the later chapters, Jan tends to come home with holes in her outfit.



Since I came into this particular subforum very late, I'm almost completely lost on how your story is playing out, what your main character exactly looks like, etc. But I'll try to give some ideas.

When you say "suit of armor," what kind of armor are we talking about exactly? Something like what Batman typically has? If so, I don't think you need to completely get rid of armor, unless your character can somehow cast a sort of bound armor like in Morrowind or Oblivion or oakflesh, etc. in Skyrim (or even some of the armor abilities in ESO). Otherwise, she can still have pieces of armor on her outfit, as even some of the toughest superheroes need it. I do agree that a trenchcoat or jacket isn't a good route. Trenchcoats often are a bad guy motif--though obviously not exclusively--but I think you'll want something more original.

If you're going to scan through other cultures like the Aztecs for ideas, how about some other flight- or bird-related mythology from other cultures. Maybe something related to Ra for the Egyptians for real-life inspiration, or Kyne/Khenarthi (versions of Kynareth) in the Elder Scrolls, for example. Is there anything or anyone that she takes particular inspiration from as a superhero (e.g. like how Batman chose his bat motif)?

Also, a quick search for "birds in mythology" led me to this Wikipedia list. Perhaps the look of one of them here will give you ideas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Legendary_birds


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RaderOfTheLostArk
post Jan 31 2021, 03:23 AM
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Something that I sometimes struggle with is the balance between well-worded dialogue and not being excessive or pretentious about vocabulary. I'm not trying to write flowery or academic stuff here, but I feel like I have good or even great ideas for how to phrase something far more often when I'm NOT writing, or I'm not at a point I can write something down, than when I actually sit down to write. Even when I would jot a note down, the idea tends to leave my head before I can get it down. I'm already awful at remembering things or writing ideas down right when I have them, so this just makes it worse. Maybe it's just my usual extreme self-criticism. I don't know.

Of course, sometimes the writing depends on the character. Is it somebody who is straight to the point? Someone who pretentiously feels the need to lord over people with their real or perceived intelligence? Are they somewhere in the middle of this? So on and so forth. But sometimes the problem isn't the choice of words but how to actually structure what they say. I'm having this trouble again with this new character that pops up in chapter 14 of Fallout: Florida. I'm writing the dialogue as I'm posting this. And I'm still poor at just stopping where I'm having a writer's block and going to somewhere later in the chapter to make progress.

So, how do these kind of issues affect others here? Do you even feel like you have trouble with it? How do you address it?

This post has been edited by RaderOfTheLostArk: Jan 31 2021, 03:24 AM


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Acadian
post Jan 31 2021, 06:50 PM
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Can only speak to a couple aspects of your question.

Since I write only in first person, it is essential that Buffy have an educational background that allows her to effectively tell a story - since it is she who not only does her dialogue but narrates her story (rather like a journal/diary) as well. As an avid reader and graduate of the Arcane University, she's got that covered so I can get as elaborate/elegant with her descriptions as I like. In dialogue, you already know that you want whoever speaks to really portray the 'voice' of the speaker in their dialogue choices and manner of speech.

As you also know, 'showing' is generally regarded as the best way to convey something in fiction but is also the most elaborate/wordy. Dialogue is very good also and a bit less wordy. Most concise is simply telling in narration, though it is less favorably regarded and, if much is conveyed, risks feeling like a data dump.

I write so much of Buffy's dialogue that her voice comes completely naturally to me. I do have to spend quite a bit of time crafting and reviewing the dialogue of others she speaks with to make sure their dialogue accurately reflects their voice. A character with a distinct accent or speech mannerisms can be very challenging to consistently write so is best limited to minor characters that don't have excessive speaking roles. One little trick I use is to impart a degree of formality/informality by how readily the speaker uses contractions. Though Buffy is very capable of speaking formally when needed, her nature is quite informal so she readily embraces the use of contractions in her own dialogue. Some of her mage colleagues are quite a bit more formal in their manner and one way I convey this is by rarely or never using contractions in their speech.

As far as refining things to hit upon the 'right' wording, the technique I use is massive editing. Any episode I post has generally been written months before posting and has undergone countless edits. Very time consuming, but I find that is the best way to eventually craft the most effective/elegant words for my purpose.


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SubRosa
post Jan 31 2021, 11:13 PM
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Like Acadian, I make each character's dialogue match who they are, and where they are from. January is a bookworm, working on an English Lit degree. But she is also a modern American. So while she can use flowery language when she wants to, it is often laced with contractions. And of course, modern slang. Since she is a nerd, she will pop out terms from sci-fi and gaming like frak, feldercarb, or chummer as well.

Blood Raven, OTOH, is 250 years old. Keeping up with language is a challenge for her. So she tends to speak with the formality of her youth, only occasionally peppering in slang. I looked at books written in the early 1800s, and copied and pasted a lot of dialogue from them. I use that as a general guidepost in how her speech should be. She is a very challenging person to write dialogue for. I never get it right on the first pass, so I don't try to very hard. Like Acadian, I go back and concentrate on it more deeply in later drafts.

Since January is a writer, and Blood Raven a different sort of writer, they have developed a running banter about vocabulary itself. January might say that something is dope, and Blood Raven observe that she remembered when that word meant something else.

I also look at the use of contractions when writing characters. Women in general tend to use fewer contractions then men. Though that is less so than it used to be. Given Blood Raven's era, she never uses them. That is not actually a conscious choice on my part. Rather it is just a side effect of writing someone speaking form a bygone age.

I have another character named Ryo who also never uses contractions. It is one of many side-effects of him having Asperger's Syndrome. He is very precise in everything he does, down to the smallest detail. That includes his speech.

Basically, you don't have to get it right in the first draft. When writing the first draft, I think the most important thing is just to get it on the page, even if you are not satisfied with what you have. You can fix it later. Just keep moving, and keep writing.


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Renee
post Feb 2 2021, 05:50 PM
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Gah, never mind.

This post has been edited by Renee: Feb 2 2021, 09:04 PM


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RaderOfTheLostArk
post Feb 6 2021, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE(Acadian @ Jan 31 2021, 12:50 PM) *

As far as refining things to hit upon the 'right' wording, the technique I use is massive editing. Any episode I post has generally been written months before posting and has undergone countless edits. Very time consuming, but I find that is the best way to eventually craft the most effective/elegant words for my purpose.


Unfortunately, I don't have the patience for that and time constraints prevent that, but I can still use it on a smaller scale. I have before, to some extent, but sometimes I start to feel overwhelmed or anxious about how much I am changing. I always find something to be worried about, no matter what I do. kvright.gif


QUOTE(SubRosa @ Jan 31 2021, 05:13 PM) *

Basically, you don't have to get it right in the first draft. When writing the first draft, I think the most important thing is just to get it on the page, even if you are not satisfied with what you have. You can fix it later. Just keep moving, and keep writing.


This is one of my biggest struggles. I did it a lot when I was writing papers in undergrad and grad school, too. Doesn't matter what it is I'm writing. Even though I know, from a logic and efficiency standpoint, that it makes sense to just write something down and move to other places in the story, paper, etc. that I know I can write something for, my penchant for anxiety and second-guessing often overrules that part of me. It's incredibly frustrating.

As for changing dialogue based on character, that's what I mean. Even when I am having them speak a certain way, my anxiety makes me question whether I am sufficiently portraying that character the right way.

This post has been edited by RaderOfTheLostArk: Feb 6 2021, 11:24 PM


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macole
post Feb 7 2021, 05:30 AM
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QUOTE(RaderOfTheLostArk @ Feb 6 2021, 04:23 PM) *

As for changing dialogue based on character, that's what I mean. Even when I am having them speak a certain way, my anxiety makes me question whether I am sufficiently portraying that character the right way.

I know that feeling. It's difficult for me to make characters sound like they are truly different. When writing dialog, to me it sounds flat like I'm talking to myself.

This post has been edited by macole: Feb 7 2021, 05:36 AM


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Renee
post Feb 8 2021, 03:29 PM
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For what it's worth, I think you all are doing just fine. cake.gif

I edited out my reply above because it sounded sort of pretentious or something (it's hard to say the right thing over the 'net sometimes, without visual / facial cues). But otherwise, I'd just say just keep telling the story. I'd hate to see somebody's story come to some sort of end due to mental wrangling.

There's a guy here online, not around much these days, who was constantly starting stories, but never finishing them. Over the years, I kept trying to encourage the guy to keep writing, but he'd always come up with some excuse why the story "won't work" or the character won't work or whatever. I never could see these problems myself, though! unsure.gif "Just keep writing it" I'd tell him. Because in my opinion, his opening chapters always blew my mind. I'd get way into his storytelling, but then it would just *end*, which I found disappointing.

Just keep on, that's what I say. Make the story a priority. Any mental wrangling shouldn't defeat this priority.

Thank you *sits down*.

This post has been edited by Renee: Feb 8 2021, 03:36 PM


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Adella
post Jul 9 2021, 01:17 PM
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Ok….So, sitting in a circle of candles and chanting arcane…I thought I might necromance this thread tongue.gif
Well, it’s not too long dead, I think laugh.gif

Interesting. I do have a proper tale with some different characters in it and so this rang bells for me. Hardest was a young twenty something lad I befriended in a Victorian’esque setting, almost Vernian with many steampunk elements. The wretched rascal was a poor thief like one of Fagan’s mob from Oliver Twist. Since I had hit hard times, Mouse (so called because he squeezed in anywhere to pilfer) took me under his wing to keep me safe on the rogue filled streets. Now his dialect matched a London Eastend kid with a yesteryear vocab…
Like: ”Gor blimey mister I ain’t gonna lie, cross me ‘art, I found this ring all proper and ‘onest see”

Well, you get the picture…a lot of replacin’ gees with apostrophes and dropping aitches to get the feel. The problem is…done to maximum effect anyone not familiar with the dialect would find it near unreadable! …and no, I chose not to litter it with quaint Cockney rhyming slang, not that I wasn’t tempted, but it would have been indecipherable to many….me ‘ol china! biggrin.gif

Then in the same setting…we had Bill Brookes (think Bill Sykes even nastier twin). A rough bulldog of a man, with an eye for the ladies (with or without consent) and a taste for cheap strong liquor. He ran the Downtown slum area with a violent iron fist and a retinue of thugs. So he needed the same accent, but a more mature turn of phrase, a bit creepy and nasty with it. “Now my dear. What’s a sweet little thing like you doin’ in a dangerous place like this?”

Bill hurt Mouse badly and endangered me…so I had to dispatch him. Quite the emotional moment.

George, the better spoken volunteer gentleman running the mobile charity soup kitchen was a bit easier…and much nicer, with far fewer dropped aitches and apostrophise laugh.gif

As for myself, well I do use a fair few contractions, often consciously so as not to sound pompous, but my diction is far more refined than my unfortunate host. My human half sounds more at home in a pub, whereas I would rather frequent a wine bar. This strikes a chord with Acadian’s relationship to Buffy…When one has a very long term character they may become a true personality…and maybe even a wearable persona complete with an entirely different way of speaking and phrasing.
Not to be confused with a multiple personality disorder of course…I am not an illness sweetie, Lol.

A. biggrin.gif

In case anyone asks…yes I would love to feature the 400 page tale of fairytale magic and high adventure here…However, sadly my character is a kind of succubus or sex vampire, and intrinsic to the unfolding story causes many deaths in…well the way a Succubus causes death….very hot and extremely explicit. So unless I either redact chunks of it or radically rewrite it all….it can’t come to an age 13 forum. Shame really because the pure adventuring aspects are clean fun. Maybe one day with a lot of reworking huh!

This post has been edited by Adella: Jul 9 2021, 01:43 PM
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Lena Wolf
post Jul 9 2021, 01:25 PM
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I guess it's an advantage that my characters are all in Tamriel. I just need to worry about Tamrielic... none of that Cockney dropping stuff. biggrin.gif


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Adella
post Jul 9 2021, 01:41 PM
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Tamrielic is huge challenge….apart from the difficulties of writing Khajiit or Saxhleel speech, one has Imperial city speak, then perhaps a rural flavour (farmer) in the country side and presumably regional differences from map corner to corner. Out of Cyrodiil…well we know the Nordic sound, but I assume Hammerfel, Valenwood etc all have differences.

Beth has made some obvious and writer licence grants others….but gosh what a lot to cope with hmmm.

A.
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Lena Wolf
post Jul 9 2021, 02:20 PM
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I just don't think about it. The Elder Council will take care of everything, sooner or later. biggrin.gif

That's the trick - I truly don't think about it. I just listen to the character talk and write down what they are saying. In all their different Oblivion/Skyrim voices.


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Acadian
post Jul 9 2021, 07:18 PM
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What I have found best for me is when writing distinctive accents is to use the guidance that the more distinctive/challenging the accent is to write, the smaller the role character needs to play. That is, it is easy to overdo a good thing. Several major characters in Buffy's fiction have minor speech mannorisms (like not using contractions for example) but they are fairly easy to write. One character who has a very distinctive manner of speech in Buffy's 3rd Era Cyrodiil is Thernd, who is the old stablemaster at Equestria - the stable that serves the mages at the Arcane University and is located in the 'Valley of Horses' beneath the bridge between the IC and the University. Thernd is a delight to write but only in small doses - perfect for his fairly rare and short appearances.

"An' what be bringin' the wee wisp o' a magey lass an' 'er precious mare ta visit ol' Thernd?"


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Lena Wolf
post Jul 9 2021, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE(Acadian @ Jul 9 2021, 07:18 PM) *

"An' what be bringin' the wee wisp o' a magey lass an' 'er precious mare ta visit ol' Thernd?"


I must admit I avoid such complex accents. I find them very hard to read... sad.gif To the point that I tend to skip them in books when I encounter them - they break up the flow for me.


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SubRosa
post Jul 9 2021, 11:44 PM
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Accents are a really difficult thing to do in prose. It is too easy to end up with what looks like gobbledy gook. HP Lovecraft used to do it, and it was not a plus:

“Ketched in the rain, be ye?” he greeted. “Glad ye was nigh the haouse en’ hed the sense ta come right in. I calc’late I was asleep, else I’d a heerd ye—I ain’t as young as I uster be, an’ I need a paowerful sight o’ naps naowadays. Trav’lin’ fur? I hain’t seed many folks ’long this rud sence they tuk off the Arkham stage.”

So instead I just note that a particular character speaks in a noticeable accent. Beyond that I will try to remind people of that subtly by using slang or other terms from their culture. I recently had a character from the UK use terms like "cracking" and "blokes". While Lighthammer will say "Aight" and of course his signature "Hooah" battlecry (since he was in the Air Force). Blood Raven speaks in a very distinctive, old world style, given that she is 250 years old. She will say things such as: "But consider that there is no shortage of windmills to tilt at in this world. Pick and choose the battles you invest yourself in with care."


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Pseron Wyrd
post Jul 10 2021, 01:53 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Jul 9 2021, 06:44 PM) *

Accents are a really difficult thing to do in prose. It is too easy to end up with what looks like gobbledy gook.

Reading one of Robert Burns Scottish dialect poems can be a struggle:

Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim’rous beastie,
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi’ bickerin brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an’ chase thee
Wi’ murd’ring pattle!

[Note: this is the first stanza of the poem that gave us the famous lines: "The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men/Gang aft agley". There are eight stanzas in all, and they will likely give a person a headache by the time they reach the last line.]
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macole
post Jul 10 2021, 05:35 AM
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QUOTE(Pseron Wyrd @ Jul 9 2021, 07:53 PM) *

Reading one of Robert Burns Scottish dialect poems can be a struggle:

Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim’rous beastie,
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi’ bickerin brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an’ chase thee
Wi’ murd’ring pattle!

So much so that at Schaffely's Burn's Night celebration at the end of each stanza of the poem the crowd lifts their pints to the reader and with hearty yell of Scotch Ale they take a big swallow.


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SubRosa
post Jul 14 2021, 12:24 AM
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Does anyone know how to spell "the soches"? I mean the shortened, plural form of "social medias". I hear the term for people referring to Twitter, Facebook, etc combined. Especially from people plugging their soches at the end of a podcast they guested on. But I have never known how to spell it.

Soches
Soshes
Soces
Soc'es
Soc's

???


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treydog
post Jul 14 2021, 01:20 AM
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In S.E. Hinton's "The Outsiders" it is spelled "socs". (Which I would have thought was "socks", but there ya go).


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