Your Writing Process, And/Or Problems with Same Options

[Pseron Wyrd]

In S.E. Hinton's "The Outsiders" it is spelled "socs". (Which I would have thought was "socks", but there ya go).

Wow, I haven't come across that term in decades. The dominant cliques in my high school were divided into "socs" (which we pronounced "sosh-es) and "greasers". A lot of drama revolved around those terms and the people who identified with them. And then there were people like me who did not fit into either group. I was an outsider even among outsiders.

Since "socs" is an abbreviation of "socials" I would assume that is a good spelling.

This post has been edited by Pseron Wyrd: Jul 14 2021, 02:16 AM

[SubRosa]

Wow, I had not thought about the Outsiders in a long, long time. I read it back in Junior High School. And saw the movie of course. Thanks guys!

Here is another thing I am coming across. I write the Stormcrow fic in Third Person, Limited point of view. Usually from the POV of the main character January. Her parents show up a lot lately. So far I keep referring to them as "January's Mom" and "January's Dad". But it is starting to feel cumbersome. OTOH, it feels weird writing from her POV and also saying "Barbara said this" or "Romulus said that".

Has anyone ever seen this done before, in either way, and how has it worked?

[Pseron Wyrd]

it feels weird writing from her POV and also saying "Barbara said this" or "Romulus said that".

Here's a little trick: insert a short sentence of description identifying a character before a line of dialogue. Once the speakers have been established in the reader's mind there is no need to bother with "Barbara said this". The following lines are awkward but they illustrate the point:

Barbara poured herself a glass of milk. "Are you going to work tomorrow?"
Romulus narrowed his eyes. "Why wouldn't I go to work?"
"Your boss called this morning. He wanted to know where you were."
"I had to visit a sick friend. Yes, that's it. I was at the hospital."
"I see. And exactly which hospital would that be, Romulus?"
"The one over on 12th street, I forget the name."

This illustrates another trick: one character identifies another character within the dialogue itself.

Have January give the parents nicknames. This not only side-steps the awkwardness of "Barbara" and "Romulus" but does double duty telling us how she feels about the parents. Here are nicknames that give dialogue a sarcastic tone:
Her Highness poured a glass of milk. "Are you going to work tomorrow?"
His Majesty narrowed his eyes. "Why wouldn't I go to work?"

Or a more affectionate tone:
Didi poured herself a glass of milk. "Are you going to work tomorrow?"
Gogo narrowed his eyes. "Why wouldn't I go to work?"

This post has been edited by Pseron Wyrd: Jul 14 2021, 06:07 AM

[Renee]

Interesting discussion going on here! Hope I have time to read it all; maybe this weekend.

I just don't want my characters to wind up sounding like me. Unless they are supposed to sound like somebody from suburban mid-Atlantic America, and I do have a character in Oblivion (Renee Gade III) who does. Otherwise, if they speak with some extreme inflection or accent, or don't use English properly, or they speak some other language entirely, so be it. I'd rather read something (or hear something in a movie) and not be able to understand 100% what they're saying than have everything read or sound like it's obviously been filtered for the masses.

I often use Free Writing *Link* when trying to get a feel how my character is speaking. Just open my mind to what's being said. And then in some cases I'll edit what was just written, just for fine-tuning purposes.

... Or not. I can remember with one of my Skyrim characters (Mycharonna) I'd almost never edit her bizarre poetry. I fact, half the time even I had no idea what the heck she was trying to communicate!

Thank you. Time for some Stormcrow.

[Acadian]

Since there are not loads of parents in the story, I see no problem while in Jan's PoV of referring to them as Mom and Dad. The capital letters differentiate that she is referring to them in the manner of proper nouns and it is clear she is talking about her own parents.

A much more minor change would be to, when contextually clear, mix in use of 'her mom' to avoid overuse of 'January's mom'.

[Adella]

I expect as avid writers everyone knows this…..but just in case I shall offer it anyway.

On You Tube if you search “Writer Tube” or “author tube” it will open an entire community of writing advisors.

Some are professionals, some are published, some trying, some post grad students mastering in English and some just wannabes with unpubbed drafts (me…only I’m not on there ha!).

Names like Alexa Donne, Jenna Moreci, Shaelin and many others provide oodles of good advice on how to approach every aspect of writing in First/Third Omniscient etc and dialogue help that impresses editors if you want to be published instead of binned.

They also cover structuring, plot planning, character arcs time and world building. You’ll find videos by successful pros like Brandon Sanderson teaching how to write like the best of them and pitfalls to avoid.

In short…..advice to turn any story idea into something indistinguishable in quality to a tome you might have picked off a shop bookshelf by a famous author.

Take a look, a few enjoyable hours self education and you will never be stuck on how to dialogue nicely ever again.

My problem….Is remembering it all

Adella

[macole]

I expect as avid writers everyone knows this…..but just in case I shall offer it anyway.

On You Tube if you search “Writer Tube” or “author tube” it will open an entire community of writing advisors.

Thanks for this. As you may have guessed by reading anything I've written my formal training was short and a very long time ago.

Take a look, a few enjoyable hours self education and you will never be stuck on how to dialogue nicely ever again.

My problem….Is remembering it all

Adella

Remembering is a growing issue.

[Renee]

Did not know that Adella, and that does sound neat about the writing advisors. We do have our own advisors here too. I've asked Trey and Acadian about this and that on occasion.

[Renee]

Hey, which is more correct?

By 1966, Gygax was active in the wargame hobby world and was writing many magazine articles on the subject.

By 1966 Gygax was active in the wargame hobby world, and was writing many magazine articles on the subject.

Only difference is the comma after the year 1966. The first sentence is how it's written on Gary's Wikipedia page, the second is how I would actually speak that sentence. I wouldn't put a pause between 1966 and Gygax, but I would put one between "world" and "and".



This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 30 2022, 03:00 PM

[macole]

Hey, which is more correct?

By 1966, Gygax was active in the wargame hobby world and was writing many magazine articles on the subject.

English class with Sister Mary Frances was a long time ago but for reading clarity and to emphasis the date of the action I would use the first line with the comma after 1966. I may not be correct but no chalk board erasure has bounced off my head so I don’t think I’m totally wrong.

I still have dents in the head from many erasure direct hits.

[Lena Wolf]

Sister Mary Francis was a real pacifist then!

[macole]

So much so that I still remember 7th and 8th grade after nearly 60 years. Deadly accutate, she was feared by all.

Renee:
I didn't want to lecture but if you want a more detailed explanation as to why I chose line #1, I will attempt to. Haven’t tried to diagram a sentence in years.

edit: spelling correction changed deasly to deadly

This post has been edited by macole: Nov 30 2022, 07:22 PM

[ghastley]

My opinions:

For the first comma, the decision is whether the "By 1966" is part of what you're saying in the rest, or separate from it. Both versions could be correct, but they'd mean something slightly different. The comma adds emphasis to the date as a milestone, and the other implies it's an arbitrary start point where the observation began.

The second comma is just wrong. If you add it, then it should read "... world, and he was ..."

Eats, shoots, and leaves, or he doesn't.

[Renee]

nrvsidr o esd s fi,,uq


This post has been edited by Renee: Dec 1 2022, 01:56 PM

[Acadian]

There are some occasions when the poor little comma can really make a world of difference as epitomized in the following sentence:

"Let's eat Grandma."

"Let's eat, Grandma."

[Lena Wolf]

But may be it's ok to eat gradma.

[Lena Wolf]

My turn to complain write about the writer's block! I am blocked.

How do you deal with being less excited to play your own mods than to make them? Well, it isn't exactly like that, but I found that making mods, especially with quests, especially now that I've figured out how to do them and how to synthesize voice lines, well, I find it's like telling stories already... I mean, you've got to have a story in your mind before you even start on a quest mod, right? I do, anyway. A story that calls for a new dungeon or two, a few new characters, complete with background stories and a forward projection, houses for them to live in, houses that reside in a village of some description, perhaps a new one, which resides on an island that we haven't seen before, with woods full of new creatures that drop new loot that... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

So I get so embroiled in this new story and all its connections to the existing world (because I like them connected), that I find it difficult to get back to where I was in my actual story. Which is exactly what is happening now. Poor Lucien is sitting somewhere in a cave in Morrowind waiting for me to get back to him and take him to Mournhold in order to try and prevent another war of assassins, all while the Tribunal DLC is playing in the background... I can't write about it because I haven't played it yet. So it isn't so much a writer's block, but a player's block! Anyone suffering from one of those?

[ghastley]

Yes, but in reverse. Clark’s story stalled becasuse he’s so far past that point in the game, I can’t remember enough. Since this is ESO, he doesn’t get the chance to replay some parts, and another character would do something different. And the story doesn’t quite follow ZOS’s version, so remembering how is twice as hard.

[Acadian]

Initially, I tried to match Buffy's story to her playing but gradually became frustrated with that for a couple reasons. First, she is a voracious player (4k hours in Ob, 4k hours in Sky, 12k hours in ESO), yet I am a slow writer. So we long ago gave up trying to keep the writing matched up to her game. Rather, what has worked for us is that her writing reflects her memoirs - many long behind her. Secondly, she's taught me to listen to her - if she wants to play instead of writing, that is what we do. When she feels like writing, that becomes our focus until her current project is fully drafted.

[treydog]

Trey had a similar experience to Clark... by the time I started describing his exploits, he was a long way into Morrowind. Add to that the fact that I was sticking as close to in-game dialogue and events as possible, AND that I had made some mistakes.... Long story later- "Trey's" adventures were actually completed by a character named "Klone," who had the same stats, but avoided most of the errors.

After realizing that trying to stick to "canon" is incredibly stifling to creativity, as well as meaning "my story" was going to be identical to almost everyone else's story... I believe Acadian/Buffy have the right idea. Lena is her own person, a unique individual. She may "remember" events somewhat differently than someone else, but that doesn't make her wrong.

In the end- do that which gives you the most joy. If it is creating mods- good. If it is writing- also good. Play when playing is what you feel like doing. If you are not in a place where you want to move Lena's story forward right then, play a different character. Doing that may give you a feel for the atmosphere and the events- and perhaps you can even use that alternate reality to think about "How would Lena respond to this?"

My 4 Septims, at any rate (darned inflation).