Forced Reload Options

[Konji]

Obviosuly for dakirai. [/flame]


Wow, mergirl...I agree with every single word you say.

[Intestinal Chaos]

Anybody who is stupid enough to say "I wonder what that message means... too bad I'm an illiterate moron" while they defecate on the emperor's dead body then later finds they can't beat the main quest and then blames it on the game's "glitchy-ness" really shouldn't be playing Oblivion and should go off and try some more linear game not meant for the purpose of Rp'ing, either that... or suicide... I know I'd consider it if I found myself to be that stupid.

This post has been edited by Intestinal Chaos: Aug 17 2005, 01:28 AM

[Channler]

Tis why Beth doesnt need to make it idiot proof...

[Daikirai]

Aren't you the dude that almost went crazy over the fall of the empire thing?

Your idea of 'crazy' and mine are completely differnent. I come from forums where every other word is four letters long and starts with "f". If not for the fact that Rane had sent me a warning, I'd probably be banned now. But if you're holding that incident against me, then I'm wasting my time here.

Anyways, if you haven't SAVED before you made it to level 80 then you are a fool to begin with... Think about that. You will have a save game prob not more then an hour before that.. So yes if you do kill someone you weren't supposed to and say you do accidently click play on IT WOULD STILL HAVE THE SAME AFFECT...

If a person saved their character at level fourty, why would they keep that game file at level sixty? It's redundant and unnessasary; no one wants to play as a weak character if a higher character is optional. So no, it wouldn't "STILL HAVE THE SAME AFFECT".

(A..

You kill some important dude in the MQ and then the message pops up telling you, you have to reload. So you do and go back to your last reload.

-and it saves you the trouble of having to make a new character later, at no cost other than not being able to kill 30 or so NPCs. Bravo, Bethesda, bravo!

(B..

You kill some important dude in the MQ and then the message pops up telling you, you have to reload. You click continue and keep on killing, when you reload you go back to your last save game.

This idea is impossible. I'll explain why in a second.

Do you want Beth to make the game Idiot proof?

Yes, actually, I do. At least, I do if the only trade off is having to reload upon the death of a few NPCs. And, idiot proof is a harsh term. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included, and mistakes are how we learn. Once we've learned, it's not worth having to make an entirely new character to complete the quest. Having to create a new character isn't freedom, which you seem to be obsessed with.

Something you seem to be forgetting though is the fact that the forced reloading isn't there for us; without it, the Radiant AI system would crash. I'm just being optimistic; and I find forced reloading convenient.

On a final note; Mer Girl, about 95% of the freedom offered by TES, you'll never use. I feel that most people simply like it because it's there, despite the fact that it's unused. There's no point in getting your panties in a wad over fourty NPCs.

EDIT: And, you're [/flame]ing me because of my views and optimism? See, this is what I meant by "maturity of a ten year old".

This post has been edited by Daikirai: Aug 17 2005, 05:33 AM

[Intestinal Chaos]

Yes well... scathing self important rants aside you do you learn not to kill a certain quest important character when you killed them on Morrowind.... I belive that's what the message was for... Bethsoft doesn't need to take you by the hand and go "No no" I'm sure people are quite capable of making the distinction between game-breaking decisions and non game-breaking decsions by themselves without being forced by the devs.

[Channler]

Omg dude, come on.. Your acting like you don't save your game but twice during its whole entire span.

I play for two hours and then save, get off and eat or do something else. The next day I start up the save game, play for several more hours, save, and go on with my life. repeat that process like 1000+ times and I might have a level 80 character..

Now with that level eighty character, I would have probobly saved over that same file... 999 times, with the expection of when I just felt like killing eveyrone I could so..

I had my main file for my game, and then the extra file for doing whatever I feel like.

Do you not ever close down games? Or save for that matter? The way your talking is that you only save like twice in your life...O_o

[Intestinal Chaos]

Omg dude, come on.. Your acting like you don't save your game but twice during its whole entire span.

I play for two hours and then save, get off and eat or do something else. The next day I start up the save game, play for several more hours, save, and go on with my life. repeat that process like 1000+ times and I might have a level 80 character..

Now with that level eighty character, I would have probobly saved over that same file... 999 times, with the expection of when I just felt like killing eveyrone I could so..

I had my main file for my game, and then the extra file for doing whatever I feel like.

Do you not ever close down games? Or save for that matter? The way your talking is that you only save like twice in your life...O_o

Here here channler, that's exactly why reloading shouldn't be forced. We actually have backups! If we want to continue playing in a doomed world so be it. Later we can just go back and load to where we were in the main quest (if we haven't finished it). This leads me to wonder do quest important people become unimportant after the completely fulfill their roles in Oblivion?

This post has been edited by Intestinal Chaos: Aug 17 2005, 09:31 PM

[Aki]

If I hadn't made it abundantly clear, I'm very glad that they've implimented forced reloads. A person who says those who ignore the warning deserve what they get are hypocrites. A person who's upset about not being able to kill 20 or so NPCs has the maturity of a ten year old. Thank you, goodnight.

So, 'immaturity' turns me into a hypocrite.

Huh.

I was sure being hypocritical did that. In this case, by, you know, bitching about the game being ruined because i ignored the warning i so value and am not stuck.

But that isn't the case, is it? Didn't think so.

I'm not upset over not being able to kill 20 or so NPCs. But i am highly annoyed the realism is damaged by having these guys who cannot die without me being reloaded. I mean, thats so realistic.


A message warning someone is enough. If someone can't figure out that the print on the screen says "YOU KILLED A IMPORTANT PERSON AND NOW CANNOT COMPLETE THE GAME. RELOAD A PREVIOUS SAVE OR CONTINUE IN THIS DOOMED WORLD!!" then they really shouldn't be playing a TES game. As they have the intellect of a sack of wet potatoes.

[Intestinal Chaos]

So, 'immaturity' turns me into a hypocrite.

Huh.

I was sure being hypocritical did that. In this case, by, you know, bitching about the game being ruined because i ignored the warning i so value and am not stuck.

But that isn't the case, is it? Didn't think so.

I'm not upset over not being able to kill 20 or so NPCs. But i am highly annoyed the realism is damaged by having these guys who cannot die without me being reloaded. I mean, thats so realistic.


A message warning someone is enough. If someone can't figure out that the print on the screen says "YOU KILLED A IMPORTANT PERSON AND NOW CANNOT COMPLETE THE GAME. RELOAD A PREVIOUS SAVE OR CONTINUE IN THIS DOOMED WORLD!!" then they really shouldn't be playing a TES game. As they have the intellect of a sack of wet potatoes.

That's exactly my point from before. The horrendously stupid really shouldn't be playing it if their going to ignore a warning like that.

[Soulseeker3.0]

oh well give a moder group a few months or something and they will have produced the most downloaded mod in Oblivion

[Daikirai]

Yes well... scathing self important rants aside you do you learn not to kill a certain quest important character when you killed them on Morrowind.... I belive that's what the message was for... Bethsoft doesn't need to take you by the hand and go "No no" I'm sure people are quite capable of making the distinction between game-breaking decisions and non game-breaking decsions by themselves without being forced by the devs.

Like I said before, the Forced Reloading isn't there for us. Without it, the game would crash. I just find it convenient.

Now then, perhapes you do learn not to kill them, but like I implied, accidents happen, and the only sacrafice for the new insurrance policy is not being able to kill a few NPCs. Fact is, you're not even upset about that- you're throwing a hissy fit because you don't get the unused, unnessasary freedom. Despite the fact that you have thousands of other NPCs to kill, the ones related to the main quest are the ones whom you want to gut. Convenient, no?

Omg dude, come on.. Your acting like you don't save your game but twice during its whole entire span.

Who ever said anything about me? I have no desire to go on pointless killing sprees, and I'd prefer not to have to start a new game due to an accident. Dude.

play for two hours and then save, get off and eat or do something else. The next day I start up the save game, play for several more hours, save, and go on with my life. repeat that process like 1000+ times and I might have a level 80 character..

And let's say that during one of those two hour periods, you kill an important NPC, you ignore/don't see the warning message, you save, and you don't want to eat. When you come back you think to yourself "Mmmm, main quest time!" You're screwed.

Now with that level eighty character, I would have probobly saved over that same file... 999 times, with the expection of when I just felt like killing eveyrone I could so..

The key word there is 'over'. If you save over a game where you kill an important NPC, you're screwed. Case closed.

Do you not ever close down games? Or save for that matter? The way your talking is that you only save like twice in your life...O_o

Once again, I haven't brought my personal game playing preference of life (besides supporting forced reloads) even once. Don't make it about me. It's not about me.

So, 'immaturity' turns me into a hypocrite.

Aki, you're probably the only person on this forum I have any respect for. Don't ruin it.

I'm not upset over not being able to kill 20 or so NPCs. But i am highly annoyed the realism is damaged by having these guys who cannot die without me being reloaded. I mean, thats so realistic.

Ask yourself; when are you ever actually going to kill them, anyway? Why would you want to, when you could just as easily go on a civilian rampage? And since when are TES games about realism? Unless you're Catholic, the idea of shooting balls of ice from your finger tips and the gates of Oblivion opening are going to seem pretty unrealistic.

A message warning someone is enough. If someone can't figure out that the print on the screen says "YOU KILLED A IMPORTANT PERSON AND NOW CANNOT COMPLETE THE GAME. RELOAD A PREVIOUS SAVE OR CONTINUE IN THIS DOOMED WORLD!!" then they really shouldn't be playing a TES game. As they have the intellect of a sack of wet potatoes.

Or, maybe they just have a short attention span, or decided to take a pee right after their kill? Honestly, I view this as an insurance policy; at no cost besides not being able to kill a few people. Big. Fewking. Deal.

And don't speak as if TES players are high and mighty beyond all other gamers. I get the same bull on World of Warcraft; playing a certain game doesn't make you a smarter, better, or more valuable person.

That's exactly my point from before. The horrendously stupid really shouldn't be playing it if their going to ignore a warning like that.

Read my last paragraph.

[Soulseeker3.0]

And let's say that during one of those two hour periods, you kill an important NPC, you ignore/don't see the warning message, you save, and you don't want to eat. When you come back you think to yourself "Mmmm, main quest time!" You're screwed.

no offence but thats why you ar sopposeto have multiple saves...

[Daikirai]

no offence but thats why you ar sopposeto have multiple saves...

Why are you so opposed to not being able to kill 20 or so people?

Anyway, it's confusing. I'm the kind of person who names all his files "aaaaaaa" and "nfiwnwenfiwen". And when you've accidently killed an NPC and decide to reload an old file, I often wonder what "nfiwnwenfiwen" means.

I'm also big on organization and neatness. I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to play a game if the character's hair is blonde; and in Morrowind, I can't wear a suit of Daedric armor unless I have the full suit. I'm just weird about organization, neatness, and having everything just right. Multiple saves: NOT RIGHT.

[Soulseeker3.0]

no I'm not opposed to not killing 20 poeple, the only reason I would kill them is for the armor/weapon they have or ,like Vivec, there souls. I have multiple saves, they are something like George 1, George 2, George 3, and then George help for when I do something stupid. I'm not diagreing with you idea I just meant that most people have more then one sav, just incase you screw something up in one od them.

I think the forced relond thing will be a inconvenience but i'm not completely against it.

[Aki]

Ask yourself; when are you ever actually going to kill them, anyway? Why would you want to, when you could just as easily go on a civilian rampage? And since when are TES games about realism? Unless you're Catholic, the idea of shooting balls of ice from your finger tips and the gates of Oblivion opening are going to seem pretty unrealistic.
Or, maybe they just have a short attention span, or decided to take a pee right after their kill? Honestly, I view this as an insurance policy; at no cost besides not being able to kill a few people. Big. Fewking. Deal.

And don't speak as if TES players are high and mighty beyond all other gamers. I get the same bull on World of Warcraft; playing a certain game doesn't make you a smarter, better, or more valuable person.
Read my last paragraph.

I kill main Quest people all the time. They're the only people worth killing. They have personality, history. I don't sensely murder. When i kill a NPC i have a reason.

Thusly, the only NPCs i kill besides those who are already hostile (IE. Bandits and such), are quest NPCs.

I remeber making a character for the explicite purpose of slaying every important NPC. She was The Hunter, and basically, had a very Hircine-esque logic. Find and hunt the most important and powerful beings in the land. And i did just that. Much more fun that pointless slaughter.

I know its a fantasy game. But i find getting my boat knocked into the past (AKA; a previous save..) because i killed the Heir unrealistic. No way to explain that in lore. Unless of course, people are buying insurance policies from Akatosh now.

I doubt one could miss the warning. Make the game momentarily pause and tell you this. You can hit 'Reload' or 'Continue'.

Like I said before, the Forced Reloading isn't there for us. Without it, the game would crash. I just find it convenient.

?

Expalin this. I've never heard of this.

[Daikirai]

Ah, yes. A developer (I forget which one exactly, MrSmileyFaceDude perhapes, but you could probably find it in the quotes section of the homepage) stated that NPCs related to the main quest were somehow vital to the Radiant AI system, and that their death would cause the game to crash.

So no, the Forced reloading isn't meant to make the game idiot proof; it's nessasary for the game to exist.

EDIT: Eh, I really can't argue with your last post, Aki. Still though, Radiant AI will make the NPCs unrelated to quests seem less dull. I hope. And I'd take Radiant AI and an insurance policy over the ability to kill a few NPCs ANY day.

This time I actually think I'll want to be doing the main quest, actually, which might be another reason I'm into the idea. I dunno, though; I'm just being optimistic.

This post has been edited by Daikirai: Aug 18 2005, 12:50 AM

[Channler]

..Dense?

Again, if you don't read the message after you kill someone important then your a idiot..

Nuff said, I'm waiting for a mod to come close this down.

[Daikirai]

Or maybe you chose to ignore it at the time, and 200 hours of gameplay later, you're wishing you hadn't.

I agree though, Rane needs to come along and close this. I don't much like being ganged up on for my personal opinions.

[Aki]

Ah, yes. A developer (I forget which one exactly, MrSmileyFaceDude perhapes, but you could probably find it in the quotes section of the homepage) stated that NPCs related to the main quest were somehow vital to the Radiant AI system, and that their death would cause the game to crash.

Huh...thats weird. Why the hell would a death of a important NPC cause a crash.

Weird.

[Rane]

Right, the forced reload is still in. So killing an essential NPC will bring up the reload screen and there is no way to skip it.

Now, seeing as the original question was answered (and by the looks of this thread) I think it's safe to say that this thread has served its purpose and can be locked.

But before that I'll throw in the post MSFD made about the forced reload.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.p...howtopic=141364

OK, so I was wrong. If you kill an essential NPC, you have to load a previous game save.

The number of NPCs you cannot kill is a tiny fraction of the NPCs in the world. The fact of the matter is that killing NPCs that quests rely on breaks the game. Many NPCs are so essential to the game world working, with our AI and so forth, that their deaths can cause any number of things to appear as bugs, or not as we intended. The designers do handle certain NPCs being killed in quests, the ones that make sense to kill, but not, for example, the Count of a city, or the heir to the throne. And it was either force you to re-load, or have the designers remove what made the quests entertaining and compelling in the first place. And I think we can all agree that it's better to have quests that are more fun to play through than quests that are artificially simplified because the designers had to worry about every obscure contingency.

But don't worry about accidentally finding yourself in this situation. We'll have a visual indicator of who's an essential NPC and who isn't, so the chances of you accidentally killing an essential NPC will be slim. And if you find yourself in combat with one, you can always attempt to yield.

Now, it doesn't seem like the game would crash if an essential NPC dies, but obviously a lot of the quests where the NPC was involved will be broken and the player might encounter some bugs.

Anyway, I'm quite positive that sooner or later there will be a user-made mod for the PC that will disable the forced reload but obviously that won't help those on the 360 in any way.